has anyone any experience as to how reliable Lloyds Shipping Registers were ? My dilemma is this: I am chasing James Dillon, who in 1827 was in command of the ENTERPRIZE / Enterprise, 151t, Heaviside owner. Dillon took the vessel from London to Bombay via Deal, with a supercargo who took over the command of the vessel once they got to Bombay. >From 1828 neither Dillon nor the Enterprise can be found in Lloyds or other India shipping records (online at least). And in 1828 a vessel called the Enterprize was wrecked enroute from Bombay to Pondicherry (her master's name was Cook). And from 1828 I cannot find Dillon in command of other vessels. But whilst researching in the 1830's Lloyds registers, I found that in 1834 the Enterprize suddenly shows up again on the Lloyds registers, with James Dillon in command, 152 tons, J. Allan as her owner, and of the port of London, but no other details for this and subsequent years. With a bit of research I found that in 1834 the societies who published the Register Books of shipping annually finished up, and this new (and subsequent) editions were LLOYDS REGISTER OF BRITISH AND FOREIGN SHIPPING, established 1834. So, did the Enterprize keep function with Dillon as master and simply escape the attention of the Lloyds registers from 1828 - 1833, or, when this new LLoyds began in 1834, were they accessing/using outdated ships registers/information ? cheers Jenny Fawcett

I eventually found it! The St Georges Steamship Company originated in Dublin and Liverpool and expanded to all the other major ports during the 1830s - London, Bristol, Hull, etc. However in Liverpool and Dublin they started calling themselves "His Majesty's War Office Steam Packets". They even used the royal coat of arms at the top of their adverts! In Hansard (26 August 1831 vol 6 cc668-9) Mr George Lamb, under-secretary for the Home Department said: "There was no doubt, that such a practice as that was wrong, and ought to be discontinued. Such a practice was highly objectionable in the steam-packet offices in Liverpool, and in other ports, which offices had no connexion with the Government, for strangers were thereby induced to believe, that the vessels from such offices, being in the service of Government, were of a superior description. The circumstance had arisen from the practice of the War-office contracting with such steam-packet offices for the transport of troops, but it was a thing that should be put a stop to." This gives an impression of a system that was in tune with the worst practices of early capitalism that was prevalent in the factories and mills at the same time. It also shows a Pontius Pilate type hand-wringing with a government minister acting as though it's really beyond his control. Don't expect Lloyds to be totally accurate! They were probably doing the best they could to get the data correct! Regards Peter Holford

Hello Jenny, Peter Holford is perfectly right about the accuracy of the Lloyd's registers, although after 1840 things do get steadily better, as the underwriters needed more reliable information. You can usually tell the date of more recent information about a vessel from the annotations under the main line of the entry - when the ship was re-sheathed in copper, last repaired, or last surveyed. Larger shipping companies would insure a number of vessels, and it might be convenient for the masters to exchange commands from time to time, or take time out to recuperate from illness. The ship movements noted in the newspapers are a good way of keeping up with who was in command, although with a common ship name this can be confusing, and one has to construct a "grid" to keep tabs on who is sailing where and when. By about 1880 many papers no longer bothered to name the masters, possibly because they were not told, or because the owners might wish to be flexible about arrangements. Local shipping often never got into Lloyd's registers, because underwriters were not needed to insure cargoes that were bought by the shipowners on loading, and resold at a profit at the destination. It was only when valuable cargoes belonging to merchants were carried overseas using someone else's ship, that merchant and shipowner needed to be covered for any loss or damage. Ten or twelve weeks at sea could be eventful, especially in the tropics. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Joan Fawcett <jfawcett@hotkey.net.au> To: mariners-l@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, 28 June, 2011 1:11:04 Subject: [MAR] Reliability of Lloyds Registers ?? has anyone any experience as to how reliable Lloyds Shipping Registers were ? My dilemma is this: I am chasing James Dillon, who in 1827 was in command of the ENTERPRIZE / Enterprise, 151t, Heaviside owner. Dillon took the vessel from London to Bombay via Deal, with a supercargo who took over the command of the vessel once they got to Bombay. >From 1828 neither Dillon nor the Enterprise can be found in Lloyds or other India shipping records (online at least). And in 1828 a vessel called the Enterprize was wrecked enroute from Bombay to Pondicherry (her master's name was Cook). And from 1828 I cannot find Dillon in command of other vessels. But whilst researching in the 1830's Lloyds registers, I found that in 1834 the Enterprize suddenly shows up again on the Lloyds registers, with James Dillon in command, 152 tons, J. Allan as her owner, and of the port of London, but no other details for this and subsequent years. With a bit of research I found that in 1834 the societies who published the Register Books of shipping annually finished up, and this new (and subsequent) editions were LLOYDS REGISTER OF BRITISH AND FOREIGN SHIPPING, established 1834. So, did the Enterprize keep function with Dillon as master and simply escape the attention of the Lloyds registers from 1828 - 1833, or, when this new LLoyds began in 1834, were they accessing/using outdated ships registers/information ? cheers Jenny Fawcett ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Replying on behalf of Ted who is having difficulty accessing the list. Mick Hello Joan, Have you seen the article on Lloyds Registers at http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/ResLloydsRegister.htm regards Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Joan Fawcett To: mariners-l@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:11 AM Subject: [MAR] Reliability of Lloyds Registers ??