Supplementary to the detailed and interesting response from Andy Adams, I was puzzled as to how Kate thought this incident involved a tug based in Goole - the GOOLE NO. 6. George Robinson, compiler of the gooleships website says: /she was one of the larger ones and may have been down there, think I read that Goole & Hull ST had some barges that were used for coal shipments under tow so that could have been why she was on the Thames.////See NORA, EDITH, ELSIE /(barges included in gooleships)/, all too big to be used on the Humber I think/. This seems to tie in with the explanation detailed by Andy. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) *** On 26/02/2015 15:41, kate smith via wrote: > Taken from William Thornton's 1901 death at sea document. "Drowned whilst going from the shore to the vessel by getting athwart a tier of steamers and the boat capsized." > What does that mean? > I think this was the vessel. > http://www.gooleships.co.uk/scott/gooleno61885.htm > It looks tiny but was supposedly 100ft. > > It happened in the Thames and he was a ship's cook in his 60s. > Thanks for any help. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Realised I should have included Kate as a specific addressee. Apologies. Andy Adams Sent from Samsung tablet

Jean I watched to see if anyone else was going to reply, nothing so far so I offer my explanation/description. On the tidal Thames from Denton, just below Gravesend to just below Tower Bridge there were  'tiers' where vessels were moored to await orders to proceed to a discharging berth (most commonly in the NE coal trade), or where barges would wait whilst waiting the next employment. These 'tiers' were formed by laying mooring bouys such that a vessel could be tied up to two bouys, fore and aft, so that they could not swing out into the river. Gaps were left between tiers so that vessels and craft could pass through to reach riverside berths. It seems likely that a decision was made to row ashore in the ships boat to enjoy a night in a hostelry. On returning great care had to taken, the tide runs very hard at the tier locations and there is very real danger, especially in the dark, of being swept onto the mooring resulting in the boat being upset and the occupants deposited in the water. On balance this seems the most likely explanation as this was not an uncommon occurrence on the Thames. I hope this was useful. Best wishes Andrew Adams Sent from Samsung tablet

Hello Albie, The entries in Richard Keys' "Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships" are in a numbered list in alphabetical order. MOUNTAIN MAID is entry #3134, sandwiched between MOSLEY (#3133) and MOUNTAINEER (#3135). If you Google this term (with the quotation marks, but without the square brackets): ["MOUNTAIN MAID" Shields] you'll get hits for The Mercantile Navy List, which will give you her call letters, and also this free download book: The Shipwrecked mariner - Page 112 - Google Books Result https://books.google.ca/books?id=SbEEAAAAQAAJ 1860 Monarch Merchant Mountain Maid . ... Shields That book is actually 3 volumes of 4 quarterly reports each. They are Volume VII - 1860 Volume VIII - 1861 Volume IX - 1862 By Google's pagination, there are 733 pages in total. You'll find something of interest on pages 364 (Relief to Shipwrecked Crews between 1 Dec. 1860 and 28 Feb. 1861) and 365 (the amount paid on behalf of the surviving crew members of MOUNTAIN MAID). As a Bonus!, have a look at page 484 ("Annual Grants to Widows"). Amongst the North Shields mariners' widows are a Jane Gibson and a Margaret Gibson, also their ages and the numbers of children they had. Are either of those yours? So ... to answer your question ... Yes!, you'll find little nuggets (not whole pages) of information about your ships in many places. Whenever you happen across a new source, just plug in your names and try. Many times you'll come up empty, but other times you'll be immensely pleased with the treasures you find. Regards, Adi -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 3/2/15, Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: Subject: [MAR] Movements smaller English Mechant ships To: mariners@rootsweb.com Received: Monday, March 2, 2015, 1:37 AM Hi, Some real novice questions: I see there are 2 numbers that relates to a ship, for instance, 3134 "The Mountain Maid" and O/N 1246 what are their respective meanings? Is there a way, except newspaper notices, to get more information and movements of smaller English merchant ships (300-500)tons that worked the Baltic, Mediterranean and Black see, East Indies and Quebec? Thanks, Albie Gibson South Africa

Hi Albie, I'm uncertain as to the context of the reference to your ship, but ON 1246 is the Official Number, a unique number assigned to the Mountain Maid.  This was carved or cast into her main beam, and remained with that ship throughout life, irrespective of name  or ownership changes, rather like the chassis number of a car. Mountain Maid was a barque registered at Shields, built at Sunderland in 1852, 329 registered tonnage, owned by Joseph Gibson of North Shields in 1858.  Christie's Shipping Register for 1858 does not mention 3134, but it might possibly have been a port number. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 2 March 2015, 6:37 Subject: [MAR] Movements smaller English Mechant ships Hi, Some real novice questions: I see there are 2 numbers that relates to a ship, for instance, 3134 "The Mountain Maid" and O/N 1246 what are their respective meanings? Is there a way, except newspaper notices, to get more information and movements of smaller English merchant ships (300-500)tons that worked the Baltic, Mediterranean and Black see, East Indies and Quebec? Thanks, Albie Gibson South Africa ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi everyone, I watched a program last week on channel five in the UK which dealt with a retired detective inspector from the Metropolitan Police called Trevor Marriott who was re examining the case of Jack The Ripper who terrorized the UK in 1888, I hope everyone doesn't mind me mentioning this in the group as I hope you will agree that it is interesting and I think it is a plausible theory and I thought of the excellent knowledgeable people who help so many of use and that they may be able to solve the mystery which was put forward at the end of the program. The conclusion of the case which the retired police officer came up with was a new theory based on a German merchant seaman called Carl Feignbaum, who sailed on a ship of the Nor Deutsche Lloyd line called the Reiher. He was able to prove through the excellent German records that the ship had docked in St Kathrine's dock London, which is approximately twelve minutes walk from White chapel where the murders took place on the dates in question. But the actual records for the ships crew were missing, so although he could say the ship was there he was unable to confirm that Carl Feignbaum was part of the crew. "Marriott thought that Feignbaum's attorney had known this and removed the records"? This is the question which needs solving and I wonder if anyone would be able to confirm that Carl Feignbaum was indeed part of the crew on the dates in question from 31 August-09 November 1888. Some further information, Feignbaum, ended up in New York in the 1890s where he committed two further murders of similar MO to the White-chapel murders but he was caught carrying out the second murder and tried and convicted and eventually executed by electric chair in Sing Sing Prison. Best Regards, Alan. On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 8:00 AM, <mariners-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Records of soldiers and families in transit to and from > (JOHN GOSLING) > 2. Movements smaller English Mechant ships (Albie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2015 10:31:52 +0000 > From: JOHN GOSLING <jd.gosling@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] Records of soldiers and families in transit to and > from > To: "mariners@rootsweb.com" <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <1425205912.46383.YahooMailNeo@web87906.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi > > Sorry for the mad moment that caused me to put my previous reply into the > subject line. > > No idea how that happened, user error pure and simple. > > Regards > > John > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 08:37:40 +0200 > From: "Albie" <albie@astonbay.co.za> > Subject: [MAR] Movements smaller English Mechant ships > To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <001701d054b3$62a64f50$27f2edf0$@co.za> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > > > > Some real novice questions: > I see there are 2 numbers that relates to a ship, for instance, 3134 "The > Mountain Maid" and O/N 1246 what are their respective meanings? > > Is there a way, except newspaper notices, to get more information and > movements of smaller English merchant ships (300-500)tons that worked the > Baltic, Mediterranean and Black see, East Indies and Quebec? > > Thanks, > > Albie Gibson > > South Africa > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to > MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to > MARINERS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 40 > **************************************** > -- Alan Turnbull, Minstlm Telephone: 01388 459 188 Mobile: 07809 839 758 uk.linkedin.com/pub/alan-turnbull-MinstLM/49/292/532 <http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/alan-turnbull-minstlm/49/292/532>

Hi, Some real novice questions: I see there are 2 numbers that relates to a ship, for instance, 3134 "The Mountain Maid" and O/N 1246 what are their respective meanings? Is there a way, except newspaper notices, to get more information and movements of smaller English merchant ships (300-500)tons that worked the Baltic, Mediterranean and Black see, East Indies and Quebec? Thanks, Albie Gibson South Africa

Hi Sorry for the mad moment that caused me to put my previous reply into the subject line. No idea how that happened, user error pure and simple. Regards John

I am sure as others would know the classified adverts for births marriages and deaths have always been known as "hatch, match & despatch" It was and still is one of the first places to check in a newspaper, just to check you are not in them <bg> But on the military baptisms, marriages and burials (pre 1837) they were kept by the chaplain or minister in his own records and were supposed to be given in on their return to England, some didn't survive, some were kept by the minister who may have stayed abroad, and for various reasons didn't make their way back to England, so the survival rate is extremely patchy to say the least, particularly in early years Those that survive are in the regimental returns which can be found on findmypast, but also many can be found for free as browsable images on a site called Familyrelatives which although a pay site has those overseas returns free to use, you need to register but not part with any money or CC details Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/02/2015 17:08, Jean Eichhorn via wrote: > Regarding the "hatches, matches and despatches" that Paul mentioned (love > that reference, by the way) those would more likely have been kept by the > dioces that padre was attached to, or perhaps turned into historic records > if a monestary closed. If he was a Protestant, there would have been a > higher organization to whom records like that went too. It is the > responsibility of every ordained individual to keep those records himself, > as well as report them to the "state". If catholic, they might be included > in Parish Registers also.

Thanks for your help David Carol On 26/02/2015 9:31 PM, David Asprey wrote: > He certainly didn't go to San Francisco on LONDESBROUGH, as she was > not in the Pacific at all in 1903-1906 > Although I didn't record the dates, the port sequence in 1904 was: > Feb/Mar - Rio de Janeiro > Apr - New York > May - Sydney NS & Chatham NB, Canada > Jun - Manchester & Liverpool > Jul - Chatham NB > Aug - Manchester & Liverpool > Oct - Buenos Aires, Montevideo > Nov - Cuxhaven, Hamburg > Dec - Hull > I can add the dates next week when I am in London again. > > David > > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Carol <sunnycoast@westnet.com.au > <mailto:sunnycoast@westnet.com.au>> wrote: > > Thank you David, the date of March 1905 is pretty much set in > concrete then as "Brazil: Plague at Porte Alegre" notes that the > health inspector was on board on 1 March. > > The next step is to find out what Charles Alfred Moore's movements > were from New York, and if he actually arrived there aboard the > Londesborough, and whether he eventually arrived in San Franciso > aboard the same ship. > > Have you any idea how long it would take a ship like the > Londesborough to get to San Franciso from New York in 1905? > > I suppose the ports of call en route, if any, would depend on why > the ship was going to San Franciso? > > Regards > > Carol > > > > On 26/02/2015 12:37 AM, David Asprey wrote: >> Agree with Adi that the letter must be March 1904. It was the >> only time around then that LONDESBOROUGH was in Rio de Janeiro >> and sailed for New York. >> The next calls at Rio de Janeiro were April 1905, sailing to >> Philadelphia, and November 1905,reported sailing for New Orleans >> though actually arriving at Portland ME. No calls at RJ in 1903 >> or 1906. >> [from Lloyd's List, vessel movements] >> >> David >>

Regarding the "hatches, matches and despatches" that Paul mentioned (love that reference, by the way) those would more likely have been kept by the dioces that padre was attached to, or perhaps turned into historic records if a monestary closed. If he was a Protestant, there would have been a higher organization to whom records like that went too. It is the responsibility of every ordained individual to keep those records himself, as well as report them to the "state". If catholic, they might be included in Parish Registers also. -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Benyon via Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 4:03 AM To: mariners@rootsweb.com; JOHN GOSLING Subject: Re: [MAR] Records of soldiers and families in transit to and from England, early 1800s Hi John Agree with Nivard, unless William's unit was transported by a Naval Troop ship, usually cut down former RN ships of the line and raseed frigates, of which there were several around this time, but that said, what with all their accoutrements etc., most Army units were transported by transports hired/leased by the War Office. But, if it could have been by RN Troop Ship would have thought that some details of those who were embarked might be included in the ship's Muster Lists, if they've survived, especially since the troops would probably have been victualled from the ship's stores, when there would be a need to account for the victuals used, so that they could be claimed from the War Office, although, if the army didn't pass on the names of the personnel involved, they may have only accounted for the number of personnel involved times the days embarked etc. ? Was going to mention Army unit diaries, if they've survived, which might give details of troop ships / transports, although, by the sound of it you may have already explored that avenue ? Unfortunately, whilst I understand that quite considerable numbers of "wives" were embarked with their Army husbands, but it was only when there was an accident or catastrophe, such as a transport going ashore, that the details of non-combatants can sometimes appear, or at least the fact that there were women on board. Was also going to suggest a slog through the newspapers such as The Times for the period in question, but on reflection, the names of the transports involved were rarely mentioned, at least in the newspapers, probably too many, plus the need not to tell the French too much, although when embarkations were made in the South Coast ports of Portsmouth and Plymouth, the names of the Army units embarking were occasionally mentioned, more so when they'd been based in barracks at the ports in question, although from about 1816-7 onwards more information was included, particularly the movement of troops to and from Ireland and the colonies, and when movements were made using RN ships details of the units involved were also usually mentioned. In closing it also occurred to me that ISTR from the days when I used to "do" family history, that the padres of some Army units maintained their equivalent of parish registers, in that hatches, matches and despatches were detailed, but its such a long time ago that the details escape me, although I would have thought that they would have been kept with the diaries ? Regards Paul On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:12:20 +0000, Nivard Ovington via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Hi John > >As far as I am aware there are no passenger lists for troops or >otherwise for that period, so whether a wife would be listed is I am >afraid a moot point > >I have yet to see a mention of a wife in discharge papers > >You might try pay lists as if she went with him (and some wives >certainly did, they drew lots to go) she would be taken on the >strength, the ladies taken would cook, wash and clean for the troops > >Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >On 26/02/2015 20:58, JOHN GOSLING via wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm trying to track down the fate of the wife of a soldier serving in the 12th light dragoons (Royal Lancers) between 1806 and 1823. His name was William Crockett, his wife was Mary. >> >> I've failed so far to find any convincing record for her death in England and it occurs to me that she might have gone abroad with her husband as a camp follower. >> >> If so, perhaps she never made it back home. >> >> Would anyone know if ships passenger records might exist for troop movements at the time, and if it would include passengers such as wives? >> >> Indeed, does anyone have any insight into the likelihood that Mary would have travelled with William? Did that sort of thing happen commonly? >> >> I know that William was likely to have been on the 1809 Walcheren campaign to Holland (though it appears the 12th never actually went ashore). >> >> The regiment returned home, then in 1811 sailed for Portugal, arriving 25th July. >> >> He would then have fought in the Peninsular War. >> >> The 12th then left Calais in July 1814 for the return home to Dover. >> >> After less than a year, the 12th were off again, arriving Ostend, Belgium in April 1815, next stop Waterloo. >> >> They got back to England November 1818. >> >> William's last trip abroad would have been to Ireland in 1820. >> >> He left the regiment in 1823 and returned home. There's no mention in his discharge record of a wife. He married again in 1829. >> >> Bit of a long shot I know as I suspect tracking down even the name of the ships involved would be a very tall order. >> >> Thanks for any pointers. >> >> Regards, >> >> John > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 28 Feb 2015 09:02, Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> wrote: > > > Hi John > > Agree with Nivard, unless William's unit was transported by a Naval > Troop ship, usually cut down former RN ships of the line and raseed > frigates, of which there were several around this time, but that said, > what with all their accoutrements etc., most Army units were > transported by transports hired/leased by the War Office.

Hi John Agree with Nivard, unless William's unit was transported by a Naval Troop ship, usually cut down former RN ships of the line and raseed frigates, of which there were several around this time, but that said, what with all their accoutrements etc., most Army units were transported by transports hired/leased by the War Office. But, if it could have been by RN Troop Ship would have thought that some details of those who were embarked might be included in the ship's Muster Lists, if they've survived, especially since the troops would probably have been victualled from the ship's stores, when there would be a need to account for the victuals used, so that they could be claimed from the War Office, although, if the army didn't pass on the names of the personnel involved, they may have only accounted for the number of personnel involved times the days embarked etc. ? Was going to mention Army unit diaries, if they've survived, which might give details of troop ships / transports, although, by the sound of it you may have already explored that avenue ? Unfortunately, whilst I understand that quite considerable numbers of "wives" were embarked with their Army husbands, but it was only when there was an accident or catastrophe, such as a transport going ashore, that the details of non-combatants can sometimes appear, or at least the fact that there were women on board. Was also going to suggest a slog through the newspapers such as The Times for the period in question, but on reflection, the names of the transports involved were rarely mentioned, at least in the newspapers, probably too many, plus the need not to tell the French too much, although when embarkations were made in the South Coast ports of Portsmouth and Plymouth, the names of the Army units embarking were occasionally mentioned, more so when they'd been based in barracks at the ports in question, although from about 1816-7 onwards more information was included, particularly the movement of troops to and from Ireland and the colonies, and when movements were made using RN ships details of the units involved were also usually mentioned. In closing it also occurred to me that ISTR from the days when I used to "do" family history, that the padres of some Army units maintained their equivalent of parish registers, in that hatches, matches and despatches were detailed, but its such a long time ago that the details escape me, although I would have thought that they would have been kept with the diaries ? Regards Paul On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:12:20 +0000, Nivard Ovington via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Hi John > >As far as I am aware there are no passenger lists for troops or >otherwise for that period, so whether a wife would be listed is I am >afraid a moot point > >I have yet to see a mention of a wife in discharge papers > >You might try pay lists as if she went with him (and some wives >certainly did, they drew lots to go) she would be taken on the strength, >the ladies taken would cook, wash and clean for the troops > >Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >On 26/02/2015 20:58, JOHN GOSLING via wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I'm trying to track down the fate of the wife of a soldier serving in the 12th light dragoons (Royal Lancers) between 1806 and 1823. His name was William Crockett, his wife was Mary. >> >> I've failed so far to find any convincing record for her death in England and it occurs to me that she might have gone abroad with her husband as a camp follower. >> >> If so, perhaps she never made it back home. >> >> Would anyone know if ships passenger records might exist for troop movements at the time, and if it would include passengers such as wives? >> >> Indeed, does anyone have any insight into the likelihood that Mary would have travelled with William? Did that sort of thing happen commonly? >> >> I know that William was likely to have been on the 1809 Walcheren campaign to Holland (though it appears the 12th never actually went ashore). >> >> The regiment returned home, then in 1811 sailed for Portugal, arriving 25th July. >> >> He would then have fought in the Peninsular War. >> >> The 12th then left Calais in July 1814 for the return home to Dover. >> >> After less than a year, the 12th were off again, arriving Ostend, Belgium in April 1815, next stop Waterloo. >> >> They got back to England November 1818. >> >> William's last trip abroad would have been to Ireland in 1820. >> >> He left the regiment in 1823 and returned home. There's no mention in his discharge record of a wife. He married again in 1829. >> >> Bit of a long shot I know as I suspect tracking down even the name of the ships involved would be a very tall order. >> >> Thanks for any pointers. >> >> Regards, >> >> John > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Thanks, David! From: David Asprey [mailto:davidjasprey@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 27 February 2015 11:12 PM To: Chris Ward; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] HMS Warrior There's a little on her Wikipedia page - and two book references https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281781%29 David On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Chris Ward via <mariners@rootsweb.com <mailto:mariners@rootsweb.com> > wrote: Is anyone able to tell me anything of the activities of this 74 gun third rate ship of the line during the Napoleonic Wars. I know the ship was launched in 1781 and broken up in 1857 but very little else. Thanks Regards Chris in Adelaide, South Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com <mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Is anyone able to tell me anything of the activities of this 74 gun third rate ship of the line during the Napoleonic Wars. I know the ship was launched in 1781 and broken up in 1857 but very little else. Thanks Regards Chris in Adelaide, South Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Hi John, This site of the Malta Family History may help. There is a lot to look at. Marjorie – Mariners Rootsweb Sir Frederic Cavendish PONSONBY, was born 6th July 1783, the second son of Lady Henrietta Frances Ponsonby, nee Spencer the second daughter of Earl Spencer and Frederick Ponsonby, the Third Earl of Bessborough. He started his army career as an Ensign with the 10th Dragoons in January 1800, promoted to Lieutenant in June 1800, and Captain in August 1803. He transferred to the 60th Regiment in April 1806 and served with them in Ireland. The following year he moved to the 23rd Light Dragoons as a Major and was with them in Spain. On 11th June 1811, he took command of the 12th Light Dragoons, and saw much action with them throughout the Peninsular War. He was made Brevet-Colonel and A.D.C. to the King in 1814. At the Battle of Waterloo he was severely wounded and left overnight on the battlefield as dead. He suffered loss of blood from seven wounds but was found the following morning. He was serving in the Ionian Islands when he was appointed Governor of Malta in 1826. Ill health caused him to resign as Governor in May 1835. He married Emily Charlotte Bathurst, the second daughter of Earl Bathurst, on 16th March 1825, and their first son Henry Frederick was born in the Ionian Islands. She bore him three sons and three daughters. He died in Hampshire on 11th January 1837

There's a little on her Wikipedia page - and two book references https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_%281781%29 David On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Chris Ward via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Is anyone able to tell me anything of the activities of this 74 gun third > rate ship of the line during the Napoleonic Wars. I know the ship was > launched in 1781 and broken up in 1857 but very little else. > > Thanks > Regards > Chris in Adelaide, South Australia > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Chris, What you need to do is to look at Paul Benyon's splendid website at http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/W/05138.html, where all is revealed. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Chris Ward via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 27 February 2015, 11:37 Subject: [MAR] HMS Warrior Is anyone able to tell me anything of the activities of this 74 gun third rate ship of the line during the Napoleonic Wars.  I know the ship was launched in 1781 and broken up in 1857 but very little else. Thanks Regards Chris in Adelaide, South Australia --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks very much Paul for 'chapter & verse' on this topic. You've saved me a lot of wasted time and effort. I'm now off to read the National Archives guide and to search the London Gazette as you suggest. If I turn anything up I'll let you. Best wishes Rosemary Rodliffe Our resources available on-line at: http://www.thornburypump.co.uk/Ancestry/resources.php Kelly's Directories of Norfolk and Cambridgeshire 1900 Return of Owners of Land in Norfolk 1873 Newnes Round the Coast 1895 Black's Guides to Cornwall 1879, Gloucestershire 1875 and South Wales 1883 Cambridgeshire, Channel Islands, Cornwall, Gloucestershire, Hampshire, Leicestershire, Norfolk, Northamptonshire and Rutland photographers details free at http://www.earlyphotographers.org.uk/

Hi Chris This may not read very smoothly, but keep going, I think I might get there in the end ;-) I think we have to remember that most of the prisons in those days belonged to the town / city in which they existed, and were either paid for by the tax payers of that town, or, like the Marshalsea prison in London (Southwark), were run privately for profit. The first public prison, as far as I know, was the convict prison, at Portland, where convicts were kept occupied from about 1848 building the breakwaters for the new harbour. Convict ships, aka Prison hulks, were maintained in the vicinity of many of the Royal Dockyards, using former RN ships to house convicts until such time as they could be shipped off the colonies. I do seem to remember reading the result of a few naval courts martial where the defendants were sentenced to prison in the Marshalsea, but whether this would apply to Joseph Longdon I know not. In later years the prison at Lewes in Sussex was used to accommodate naval prisoners, and similarly ISTR there was one down at Bodmin, in Cornwall, for personnel convicted at Plymouth. But as luck would have it, the following web page details the RN use of Lewes Prison: http://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org.uk/page/lewes_naval_prison which, rather interestingly, also mentions that prior to the opening of the prison at Lewes, circa 1853, naval personnel were imprisoned in the civilian prisons at Maidstone, Winchester and Exeter over which the Navy had no control. The best I can do, but at least it would appear to narrow down your choice.....hopefully ? Regards Paul On Thu, 19 Feb 2015 18:20:25 +0000, Gene Genie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Hi > >I am trying to find out information on military or civilian prisons in the Portsmouth area. In 1827 my 3 x G grandfather, Joseph Longdon, was sentenced to 12 months hard labour for receiving stolen goods at that time. > >Joseph was in the Royal Marine Artillery based in Portsmouth but was convicted in a civilian court. I don't know if he would have been imprisoned in a military jail as he was a serving marine? The judge said at the trial it was down to Joseph's commanding officer to decide if he was to remain in the marines at the end of his sentence, but sadly I do not have his military records to find out what happened to him. He was eventually found drowned in the Thames in London in 1835, so not a very happy life! > >I believe he was sentenced in Winchester. > >Any advice gratefully received > >Chris Longdon >Chris >Sent from my iPad > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html