Hello Everyone Can anyone advise me where I might find records of the following vessels? HMS Hazard 1745 HMS Royal Charlotte 1765 & 1800 These vessels, I believe, operated under the Excise department and were likely stationed at Leith. Any advise or directions would be greatly appreciated. Kind regards Gordon

Hello again, Ruth, Here are some samples for you. Regards,Adi  ****************************************************** Jet the unstoppable, paraplegic black Lab is doing the Lions Foundation/Purina "Walk for Guide Dogs' again this May 30th and is looking for sponsors. https://www.purinawalkfordogguides.com/locations/team.cfm?ID=164

Hello Ruth, 1) Newspapers, Ruth, that's your ticket. I had a wee look for you and can confirm that both PRIMROSE and BEAMISH were coasters (not foreign-going vessels, so not likely to be listed in volumes of Lloyd's Register of Shipping) and their Port of Registry was Stockton. More on newspapers further down and I will email you direct with a few examples. However, have a look in Lloyd's Registers anyway. There are many volumes free online. http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html 2) Your man does appear to possibly have made two Baltic voyages in 1840. At least, in the Sound Toll Registers, the master was a "J. Woodcock of Stockton". Those registers do not give ship names.To determine vessel name, you need to line up mention of a vessel with that master in the "Sound List" printed in the newspapers with the dates given in the registers. (yes, smile, newspapers again.) But ... if you click on the orange circle to the left of his name in the link below, that will lead you to the actual images showing that he brought coal from Stockton and his homebound cargo was timber. http://dietrich.soundtoll.nl/public/names.php?lname=Woodcock 3) If you can get to TNA, BT 98 files (description below) would be of interest. The pertinent ones for Stockton are BT 98/474 to BT 98/480 inclusive. Reference: BT 98 Title: Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Agreements and Crew Lists, Series I Description: This series contains surviving muster rolls from 1747, agreements, 1835-1860, and official log books kept by the General Register and Record Office of Seamen. A few of the official log books survive from about 1852, but it was not until 1854 that masters were required to deposit them at the end of the voyage. The log books that have been preserved are chiefly those containing entries of a birth or death at sea, or log books of smaller vessels which were printed on the same form as the crew list and agreement. Also from 1850 a form M was introduced for mutual release of seamen at the end of a voyage; a few of these survive. The rolls include names and addresses of seamen, dates of engagement and discharge and the name of their previous ship. Date: 1747-1860 Arrangement: The muster rolls are filed alphabetically by port under name of ship in one run for the years 1835-1844. With the introduction in 1845 of a system of register tickets for merchant seamen a record of the ticket numbers was attached to the crew list: from here on the documents are kept in separate yearly runs. With the introduction in 1855 of a central registry all ships were given an official number as soon as practicable. From 1857 the agreements are filed under official numbers rather than alphabetically. Five major schedules are to be found amongst the agreements and crew lists from 1835, namely: Schedule: A, Type: Agreement (Foreign Trade), Filing requirements: Within 24 hours of return to a UK port; Schedule: B, Type: Agreement (Home Trade), Filing requirements: Within 30 days after the end of each half year (30 June and 31 December); Schedule: C, Type: List of Crew (Foreign Trade), Filing requirements: Within 24/48 hrs of return to a UK port; Schedule: D, Type: Account of Voyages and Crew (Home Trade), Filing requirements: Within 21 days after the end of each half-year; Schedule: G, Type: Names & Register Tickets of Crew (Foreign Trade), Filing requirements: On sailing from the UK; 4) For searching newspapers, the usual format in the shipping news columns is "Vessel Name COMMA Master's Surname" and yes, do use those quotation marks. Another useful search term is "Vessel name OF Port Name" and again use the quotation marks. It is free to search the British Newspaper Archive and get the thumbnails, from which you can glean a lot. It's only to read the actual articles that you need a subscription. And ... if you have FindMyPast, those newspapers are included there. http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ One of the bits that I will email you directly tells you (in the very first hit!) that the vessel he sailed to the Baltic in April 1840 was STOCKTON. How's that for results (smile)? 5) Are you aware that someone else is searching for the same person? Admittedly, this message board post is from 10 years ago, but is still worth following up on. http://boards.ancestry.ca/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=4842&p=localities.britisles.england.dur.general Regards, Adi ****************************************************** Jet the unstoppable, paraplegic black Lab is doing the Lions Foundation/Purina "Walk for Guide Dogs' again this May 30th and is looking for sponsors. https://www.purinawalkfordogguides.com/locations/team.cfm?ID=164

The following ships were captained by James Woodcock on the dates shown, I don't know the ports of registry of any of them but would be grateful for any further information anyone could provide. Thank you. Beamish - 1827 to 1829Sylvia - 1828, 1830, 1832 Primrose -1829Mercury - 1831Dove - 1832Elizabeth - 1834Sarah and Elizabeth - 1839Norton - 1839 or early 1840Stockton - 1840Betsy's/Betsey's Delight - 1841

Hi My Great Great Grandmother was called Agnes Souter nee Potts and first appeared in North Shields in the early 1800s. A marriage certificate and children baptism records identify her husband as James Souter, a mariner living in South Shields. We can calculate from the birth of their last child and Agnes becoming a widow, that James died in the 1870s. We have no birth or death certificate for a James Souter living in South Shields who fits the few facts we have. In fact, there is only one James Souter, a sea captain whose age, family etc is well documented and definitely not our James Souter. We can speculate that James moved to South Shields to join the Merchant Navy as a young man. This would explain why we can't find a birth certificate, especially if he moved from Scotland. Following this lead, we did discover a James Souter who registered in Newcastle under the new arrangements introduced in 1845. He gave the year he was born as 1830 and his place of birth as Aberdeen. A good candidate but no proof. Our speculation on the lack of a death certificate led us to explore the possibility that he died at sea, and we discovered a James Souter who died in 1873 aboard the St Helens which sunk in the North Sea carrying coal gas from South Shields to London. Again, a good candidate who might also line up with the young man who registered in 1845, but no proof. Following up the shipwreck, we discovered inaccurate speculation in the press about what might have happened, and we tracked the ship back to Yard 13 on the Clyde. The St Helens was built in 1871 by William Hamilton and first owned by the Commercial Steamship Co Ltd of London. I feel the next step to try and tie the James Souter lost at sea to Agnes, and to discover his birthplace, nationality etc, is to find an entry in the Registers of Wages and Effects for Deceased Seamen held by the a General Register Office or the Public Record Office in Kew. At this stage I am writing on this mailing list to ask for advice on searching these records, and to see if anyone can think of anything else to try. Has anyone any knowledge of the St Helens and its owners, the Commercial Steamship Co Ltd? Would the owners be likely to keep next of kin records? How would the family be informed when a ship is lost? I look forward to any replies. Thanks in anticipation. Brian Souter

Merci Gildas, I will have a look at that web site. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Gildas via Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:23 AM To: andycadams@aol.com ; mariners@rootsweb.com Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Georges Leverdier Hi, Why don't you try to contact www.pilote-seine.fr, GEORGES LEVERDIER was one of their pilot ships, they would have reliable information. Best regards, Gildas Envoyé de mon iPad > Le 23 avr. 2015 à 11:25, andycadams@aol.com via <mariners@rootsweb.com> a > écrit : > > Hi Joe > > The only reason I knew that you had responded was by accessing the > Archives, nothing in my Inbox. I had changed to a .org.uk address > because of troubles with aol. Doesnt seem to have worked. > > Can't find much about the withdrawal date for GL, however I seem to > recall that two more modern vessels (one may have been Albert Faroult) > were in operation at Le Havre in the mid 60's. Given the age span of a > pilot cutter as between 30 and 40 years it is not unreasonable to > assume that withdrawal occurred in the early sixties, I have no > recollection of her as I did not go to Le Havre until 1967. A referral > to Lloyds Registers would give you an end date in that she would no > longer be included or if she was, there would be an annotation stating > 'Class withdrawn' probably with the date of the required special > survey. I regret that my own copies do not go beyond 1955. > > I have in my posesion copies of pages from the Boarding Book which > clearly shows that she was still operating as a boarding vessel, with > pilots embarked, the entry 'anchored in harbor' is a strong indication > that the Boarding Officers were now American. The date for this is Feb > 1945. The inside page of the Boarding Book reads 'His Majesty's Ship > George Leverdier'. I strongly suspect that she had Free French crew. > The fact that she was still a Boarding/Examination vessel at this date > squares with entry in the Navy List for 1945. > > Signal Letters/Call Sign FORI > > I will keep drilling down on this one although I feel there is not much > further to go. > > Next to the question of the Pioneer and Guide. These two vessels were > built for the Dungeness station with Pioneer being the first purpose > built steam cutter. I have attached a data sheet which will give a full > technical spec. Remainder below. > > Pioneer 1 Built at a cost of £6361. First purpose built steam > cruising > cutter. Built for the Dungeness station. Transferred to Harwich in > 1906, relicensed No 7. Transferred back to Dover in 1912 and reverted > to No. 1. Renamed Preceder in 1924 to free the name for the new > Pioneer. Sold to Pilotage du Gironde in 1925 and renamed Chevalier. > Broken up in 1935. > > Off No 98971 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHGF > > Guide 2 Built for the Dungeness station, contract price £6300 but > final price closer to £6415. Replaced by Patrol in 1914 and sold to J E > Bernier of Levis Lauzon, Quebec. Bernier a noted Arctic explorer used > her for supporting his gold prospecting and fur trapping activities > around Baffin Island. Sold to > Cie Navigation de la Baie de Bras d' Or in 1923. Sold to North Shore > Trading Co of Quebec 1926. Sunk Oct. 1926 > > Off No 98982 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHLF > > Photos are a little hard to come by. The photos that I have are for > Pioneer only including one from the Amos and Amos collection (NMM > copyright). No copyright on the others. > > I will review the Archives regularly to make sure that you have had > receipt. > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

http://homesteadsprout.com/ytunmzu/fpjcpauutttwjmotitokfgizcaljzibvay.cqhcrugaqmvumpwxjuyp 4/24/2015 11:07:15 PM

Hi, Why don't you try to contact www.pilote-seine.fr, GEORGES LEVERDIER was one of their pilot ships, they would have reliable information. Best regards, Gildas Envoyé de mon iPad > Le 23 avr. 2015 à 11:25, andycadams@aol.com via <mariners@rootsweb.com> a écrit : > > Hi Joe > > The only reason I knew that you had responded was by accessing the > Archives, nothing in my Inbox. I had changed to a .org.uk address > because of troubles with aol. Doesnt seem to have worked. > > Can't find much about the withdrawal date for GL, however I seem to > recall that two more modern vessels (one may have been Albert Faroult) > were in operation at Le Havre in the mid 60's. Given the age span of a > pilot cutter as between 30 and 40 years it is not unreasonable to > assume that withdrawal occurred in the early sixties, I have no > recollection of her as I did not go to Le Havre until 1967. A referral > to Lloyds Registers would give you an end date in that she would no > longer be included or if she was, there would be an annotation stating > 'Class withdrawn' probably with the date of the required special > survey. I regret that my own copies do not go beyond 1955. > > I have in my posesion copies of pages from the Boarding Book which > clearly shows that she was still operating as a boarding vessel, with > pilots embarked, the entry 'anchored in harbor' is a strong indication > that the Boarding Officers were now American. The date for this is Feb > 1945. The inside page of the Boarding Book reads 'His Majesty's Ship > George Leverdier'. I strongly suspect that she had Free French crew. > The fact that she was still a Boarding/Examination vessel at this date > squares with entry in the Navy List for 1945. > > Signal Letters/Call Sign FORI > > I will keep drilling down on this one although I feel there is not much > further to go. > > Next to the question of the Pioneer and Guide. These two vessels were > built for the Dungeness station with Pioneer being the first purpose > built steam cutter. I have attached a data sheet which will give a full > technical spec. Remainder below. > > Pioneer 1 Built at a cost of £6361. First purpose built steam cruising > cutter. Built for the Dungeness station. Transferred to Harwich in > 1906, relicensed No 7. Transferred back to Dover in 1912 and reverted > to No. 1. Renamed Preceder in 1924 to free the name for the new > Pioneer. Sold to Pilotage du Gironde in 1925 and renamed Chevalier. > Broken up in 1935. > > Off No 98971 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHGF > > Guide 2 Built for the Dungeness station, contract price £6300 but > final price closer to £6415. Replaced by Patrol in 1914 and sold to J E > Bernier of Levis Lauzon, Quebec. Bernier a noted Arctic explorer used > her for supporting his gold prospecting and fur trapping activities > around Baffin Island. Sold to > Cie Navigation de la Baie de Bras d' Or in 1923. Sold to North Shore > Trading Co of Quebec 1926. Sunk Oct. 1926 > > Off No 98982 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHLF > > Photos are a little hard to come by. The photos that I have are for > Pioneer only including one from the Amos and Amos collection (NMM > copyright). No copyright on the others. > > I will review the Archives regularly to make sure that you have had > receipt. > > Best Wishes > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joe The only reason I knew that you had responded was by accessing the Archives, nothing in my Inbox. I had changed to a .org.uk address because of troubles with aol. Doesnt seem to have worked. Can't find much about the withdrawal date for GL, however I seem to recall that two more modern vessels (one may have been Albert Faroult) were in operation at Le Havre in the mid 60's. Given the age span of a pilot cutter as between 30 and 40 years it is not unreasonable to assume that withdrawal occurred in the early sixties, I have no recollection of her as I did not go to Le Havre until 1967. A referral to Lloyds Registers would give you an end date in that she would no longer be included or if she was, there would be an annotation stating 'Class withdrawn' probably with the date of the required special survey. I regret that my own copies do not go beyond 1955. I have in my posesion copies of pages from the Boarding Book which clearly shows that she was still operating as a boarding vessel, with pilots embarked, the entry 'anchored in harbor' is a strong indication that the Boarding Officers were now American. The date for this is Feb 1945. The inside page of the Boarding Book reads 'His Majesty's Ship George Leverdier'. I strongly suspect that she had Free French crew. The fact that she was still a Boarding/Examination vessel at this date squares with entry in the Navy List for 1945. Signal Letters/Call Sign FORI I will keep drilling down on this one although I feel there is not much further to go. Next to the question of the Pioneer and Guide. These two vessels were built for the Dungeness station with Pioneer being the first purpose built steam cutter. I have attached a data sheet which will give a full technical spec. Remainder below. Pioneer 1 Built at a cost of £6361. First purpose built steam cruising cutter. Built for the Dungeness station. Transferred to Harwich in 1906, relicensed No 7. Transferred back to Dover in 1912 and reverted to No. 1. Renamed Preceder in 1924 to free the name for the new Pioneer. Sold to Pilotage du Gironde in 1925 and renamed Chevalier. Broken up in 1935. Off No 98971 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHGF Guide 2 Built for the Dungeness station, contract price £6300 but final price closer to £6415. Replaced by Patrol in 1914 and sold to J E Bernier of Levis Lauzon, Quebec. Bernier a noted Arctic explorer used her for supporting his gold prospecting and fur trapping activities around Baffin Island. Sold to Cie Navigation de la Baie de Bras d' Or in 1923. Sold to North Shore Trading Co of Quebec 1926. Sunk Oct. 1926 Off No 98982 Signal Letters/Call Sign MHLF Photos are a little hard to come by. The photos that I have are for Pioneer only including one from the Amos and Amos collection (NMM copyright). No copyright on the others. I will review the Archives regularly to make sure that you have had receipt. Best Wishes

Dear Andy, Thank you so much for your belated reply to my query regarding the pilot vessel Georges Leverdier. She seems to have led a very interesting and adventurous life. I am still none the wiser though as to her final fate.I would imagine though,that she was probably broken up in France. It is interesting that your special interest is in UK pilot vessels as my special interest is in vessels built in Dumbarton,Scotland where i was born and grew up. I worked for a time in the famous shipyard of William Denny & Brothers. A few years ago i began to collect photographs of the vessels built in Dumbarton by the various shipbuilders that flourished in the town over the years. In this respect and knowing your forte is pilot vessels would you be able to point me in the direction of any photos of the two Trinity House pilot vessels PIONEER & GUIDE built 1891 by Wm.Denny & Bros . in Dumbarton.And also would you have the histories of these two vessels. I have been looking for illustrations of these two ships for a few years now without any success. any assistance would be gratefully received. Hope to hear back from you. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia. -----Original Message----- From: Andy Adams via Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2015 10:21 AM To: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Georges Leverdier Dear Joe I am really surprised that I didn’t pick up on this as pilotage and pilot vessels, principally UK, are my special interest. Georges Leverdier was among a number of vessels that escaped to the UK after the Fall of France in 1940. After a short spell in lay-up she was requisitioned into the RN in November 1940 for service as a combined examination vessel/pilot cutter and served principally at?? She was returned to nominal French control in Oct 1944? To help with putting a context on the matter it is perhaps worth considering the situation further north east with the capture of the Schelde estuary and soon after the capture of Antwerp. Walcheren was captured by British forces in late October 1944 by landings at Westkapelle and by an advance from the east by the Canadians over the causeway from Bergen. Breskens to the south was taken by the Canadians. This allowed mine clearance operations to commence and the institution of the TAM (Thames-Antwerp Military convoys) in November 10944 initially to Terneuzen but soon after to Antwerp. This created a requirement for pilot vessels. The Admiralty agreed to release four of the Dutch pilot vessels serving on Examination Vessel duties and they took up station at the Wandelaar and Steenbank stations in November 1944 as part of a joint Dutch/Belgian operation. Still under Admiralty nominal control but with Dutch/Belgian crew they retained their RN naval gunners until at least the end of 1945 when with the return of two Belgian cutters from the RN and the release by the Spanish authorities who had interned the remainder at St Jean de Luz both nations took responsibility for their own service. The vessels were renamed Let Op, Pas Op, Recht Op and Merk Op. Due to the kindness of a lady in Canada I have a copy of a photograph of two of the gunners with an RN cap tally LET OP. One of the gunners is her father who was a Sheringham fisherman. To return to Le Havre and the Seine a similar situation arose as the Allies were keen to reduce the logistics tail and as American forces pushed further into France the distance of the front line from the port of Cherbourg was increasing the logistics tail. Very few of the French cutters were to escape to the UK, those that remained were inducted into the Kriegsmarine for service as Voorpostenboots (or patrol vessels) and two were found in Germany at the end of the war in very poor condition. In a similar manner to that which pertained on the Schelde the two French services (Le Havre and Seine (Rouen) were temporarily merged. Georges Leverdier was apparently released for this service in late June 1944, although still under Admiralty control, but other evidence shows that she did not take up pilotage duties until October 1944. She continued in this joint service until Dec 1944 at which time she was replaced by the newer Albert Faroult released by the Admiralty. I have some good indication that an American Examination Team was in place by early 1945 although by now the principal business was to provide pilots. Albert Faroult was replaced by Pouyer Quertier in April 1945. All three of the above had served in the RN but originally were Seine/Rouen pilot vessels. A fourth vessel was lost whilst on RN service in 1941? It seemed that the standard peacetime service resumed in 1946. -- /Andy Adams/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Dear Joe I am really surprised that I didn’t pick up on this as pilotage and pilot vessels, principally UK, are my special interest. Georges Leverdier was among a number of vessels that escaped to the UK after the Fall of France in 1940. After a short spell in lay-up she was requisitioned into the RN in November 1940 for service as a combined examination vessel/pilot cutter and served principally at?? She was returned to nominal French control in Oct 1944? To help with putting a context on the matter it is perhaps worth considering the situation further north east with the capture of the Schelde estuary and soon after the capture of Antwerp. Walcheren was captured by British forces in late October 1944 by landings at Westkapelle and by an advance from the east by the Canadians over the causeway from Bergen. Breskens to the south was taken by the Canadians. This allowed mine clearance operations to commence and the institution of the TAM (Thames-Antwerp Military convoys) in November 10944 initially to Terneuzen but soon after to Antwerp. This created a requirement for pilot vessels. The Admiralty agreed to release four of the Dutch pilot vessels serving on Examination Vessel duties and they took up station at the Wandelaar and Steenbank stations in November 1944 as part of a joint Dutch/Belgian operation. Still under Admiralty nominal control but with Dutch/Belgian crew they retained their RN naval gunners until at least the end of 1945 when with the return of two Belgian cutters from the RN and the release by the Spanish authorities who had interned the remainder at St Jean de Luz both nations took responsibility for their own service. The vessels were renamed Let Op, Pas Op, Recht Op and Merk Op. Due to the kindness of a lady in Canada I have a copy of a photograph of two of the gunners with an RN cap tally LET OP. One of the gunners is her father who was a Sheringham fisherman. To return to Le Havre and the Seine a similar situation arose as the Allies were keen to reduce the logistics tail and as American forces pushed further into France the distance of the front line from the port of Cherbourg was increasing the logistics tail. Very few of the French cutters were to escape to the UK, those that remained were inducted into the Kriegsmarine for service as Voorpostenboots (or patrol vessels) and two were found in Germany at the end of the war in very poor condition. In a similar manner to that which pertained on the Schelde the two French services (Le Havre and Seine (Rouen) were temporarily merged. Georges Leverdier was apparently released for this service in late June 1944, although still under Admiralty control, but other evidence shows that she did not take up pilotage duties until October 1944. She continued in this joint service until Dec 1944 at which time she was replaced by the newer Albert Faroult released by the Admiralty. I have some good indication that an American Examination Team was in place by early 1945 although by now the principal business was to provide pilots. Albert Faroult was replaced by Pouyer Quertier in April 1945. All three of the above had served in the RN but originally were Seine/Rouen pilot vessels. A fourth vessel was lost whilst on RN service in 1941? It seemed that the standard peacetime service resumed in 1946. -- /Andy Adams/

I am trying to find out the names of hospital ships and possibly troops ships bringing back soldiers and wounded soldiers from Bombay back to England in 1917 Many of the wounded would have been from the campaign in Mesopotamia Is there any list of these ships which can be accesed online ? Thank you Michael McDonnell

It is almost five years now since Debbie Beavis and Ted Finch handed the Mariners' List website and mailing list across to Mick O'Rourke and myself. Since then all technical matters, including development of a new-look website, have been handled entirely by Mick. We have both, however, also been involved as Joint Administrators of the Mailing List. For personal reasons, Mick now wishes to step back from the day to day admin duties although, thankfully, he will still be available if any technical problems arise. Therefore, we would like at least one member to volunteer to become a Joint Administrator with myself. The duties are not onerous! The main one is to be notified on a daily basis by email from Rootsweb of messages received which require moderating. In the main these are obvious spam messages which can be immediately discarded. These can be dealt with very quickly, in under one minute! Sometimes, but fairly rarely, there is a genuine message requesting information where the enquirer can be referred to the webpage giving instructions on how to join the mailing list. Similarly, there are occasional messages to our separate "info" email address where, likewise, enquirers can normally be advised to subscribe to the List in expectation that our members will be able to help them. Otherwise, as administrators, we keep a general eye on the List to make sure things are running smoothly and to send out an ADMIN message on the few occasions we find someone stepping out of line through not following List etiquette. There are no financial implications involved in becoming a new joint administrator so if you feel you can help please contact me accordingly on my personal email address above. In due course, Mick's "retirement" may impact on the operation of both our old and new websites, but any changes will be notified as and when they arise. Ron Mapplebeck Administrator - Mariners' List

Hi Lyndon Thank you, as you say all good background information. Peter ________________________________ From: LYNDON JOHNSON <l.johnson@btinternet.com> To: P NICHOLL <p_nicholl@btinternet.com>; "MARINERS@rootsweb.com" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com>; "mariners@rootsweb.com" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2015, 20:10 Subject: Re: [MAR] . Re: Troopships in the interwar years Dear Peter, as an ex-BISN Co Ltd deck officer, I was interested to see your enquiry about troop ships.  Although I never sailed on them as troop ships, I did sail on Nevasa, Devonia (ex-Devonshire) and Dunera when they were changed to educational cruise ships.  I passed your note to the un-official BI archivist and he has responded with:  In the link to Queen's Royal Surreys, Nevasa (1913) is in fact Neuralia, taken on her first "educational" cruise in July 1932 whilst passing under the Keil Canal bridge, then doctored in the dark room. Nevasa (1957) is a trials photo. I guess this doesn't advance your quest t all, but it may be of some background interest. regards Lyndon Johnson ________________________________ From: P NICHOLL via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: "MARINERS@rootsweb.com" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2015, 13:28 Subject: [MAR] . Re: Troopships in the interwar years Hi Paul Thanks, your helpful reply has given me at the least some names to follow up. Peter  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Lyndon, As you say it's useful background. Peter

Thanks Lyndon, As you say it's useful background. Peter

Dear Peter, as an ex-BISN Co Ltd deck officer, I was interested to see your enquiry about troop ships.  Although I never sailed on them as troop ships, I did sail on Nevasa, Devonia (ex-Devonshire) and Dunera when they were changed to educational cruise ships.  I passed your note to the un-official BI archivist and he has responded with:  In the link to Queen's Royal Surreys, Nevasa (1913) is in fact Neuralia, taken on her first "educational" cruise in July 1932 whilst passing under the Keil Canal bridge, then doctored in the dark room. Nevasa (1957) is a trials photo. I guess this doesn't advance your quest t all, but it may be of some background interest. regards Lyndon Johnson ________________________________ From: P NICHOLL via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: "MARINERS@rootsweb.com" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2015, 13:28 Subject: [MAR] . Re: Troopships in the interwar years Hi Paul Thanks, your helpful reply has given me at the least some names to follow up. Peter  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Paul Thanks, your helpful reply has given me at the least some names to follow up. Peter 

See: http://dehanz.net.au/entries/kohimarama-naval-training-school/

Hi Migs Just to clarify things, the school you refer to at Kohimarama would, I should think, have been nothing to do with the Royal Navy, or the subsequent RNZN, which became independent from about 1941 onwards. So I imagine the NZ naval training school at Kohimarama must have been something set up as a private venture and would, unless it was a charity, have probably been fee paying.....perhaps preparing youngsters for the Merchant Service (MS), or if lads were exceptional, maybe preparing them for the Colonial Cadet scheme mentioned below ? Similar schools existed in England, but, with a couple of exceptions, in London and Portsmouth, were usually one man bands, with no need to maintain good records, not forgetting that in those days the sort of record keeping that we maintain today wasn't even considered, and was kept to the bare minimum, with attendance records and course work probably being maintained in a small exercise book, at best, possibly with notes regarding discipline etc. Some of these schools lasted for a few years, with others you can sometimes see them in more than one census, so they survived 10+ years, so your 7 years is probably about par for the course, as would your knowledge that it existed, but not a lot else ! In 1870 a scheme was set up by the Admiralty in London to enable Colonial Cadets to be examined by local Flag Officers to see if they were considered suitable - see : http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1870/Colonial_Cadets_Entr_to_RN.html but, unless very well prepared, not the sort of thing that I would think the Burgess brothers could afford, unless there was someone with very deep pockets supporting them ? I should also perhaps note that until about 1890 the RN didn't go in for shore establishments, and all training was done on board ship, even if it was in harbour. Even to the point of lending old and retired RN ships to charities etc., or people with influence, usually with a view to training some of the lads for service in the RN or MS. Obviously it didn't always work out as hoped, but the results were usually sufficiently good for the RN to persevere with the various schemes into the 20th Century, and I seem to remember we have, or did have, one or two on the list who have personal experience of these schemes ;-) Local record offices in the UK have occasionally been able to rescue some of the material from such schemes, but they weren't around at the time, and the records usually get thrown out when relatives sort out estates, even if they've survived that long. Paul On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 09:04:55 +1200, migs via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Greetings cousins > >The NZ naval training school at Kohimarama was established in 1874, across the Auckland harbour mouth from Devonport Naval Base. It’s Internet-accessible surviving records seem to be poor, and it closed after about seven years. > >Would my orphaned Burgess brothers - William Henry b 1858 and Thomas Alfred b 1862 - both known to be in the Lyttelton (Christchurch) orphanage in 1873, be likely to have been sent there for naval training, or directly apprenticed to a ships’s Captain? Their father was Master Mariner Richard Plummer Burgess, drowned 1863. (I have a lot of information on Richard in the UK and Australia and NZ, so don’t spend time on him please.) > >If they became sailors, as family legend claims, a lot of effort fails to find them as adults. William Henry Burgess reputedly settled in Australia. I found one man who seemed possible, but he turned out to be German . . . Thomas Alfred Burgess probably married and settled in Ireland and died childless, so there’s even less chance of finding him. > >I’m hunting for the descendants of William, mostly to share the results of the research I have done. Their mother was fascinating Irish Famine Orphan Winifred Callaghan, sent to Australia on the Earl Grey scheme . . . . > > >Many thanks for any ideas or suggestions > >Migs (Margaret) Eder, NZ. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html