Hello Anne, Erm ... The Mariners List concerns itself only with mariners. Whether any of John (1844) or James (1846) or William (1848) were brothers to your Emmanuel/Emanuel (1856?) is beyond the scope of this list. You will have to establish that or not through general genealogy sources. For researching mariners, I suggest that you "lurk" on this list for a while and skim all the posts. You'll pick up many sources and tips that way. That said, here are two bits: 1) A John Tester born 1844, Shoreham, was cook and seaman on the DARE of Portsmouth, ON (= Official Number) 35218, during the first 6 months of 1866. He had previously been on the JOHN SHARP of Shoreham.Source: CLIP Crew List Index http://www.crewlist.org.uk/crew/crew.php?target=tester&searchtype=Exact&initial=&dob=&submit=+Search+ 2) Your Emmanuel appears to have been on the JOHN MILES, ON 125659, for a few years. He made two voyages on her as cook and steward in 1915.Source: free online 1915 merchant navy crew lists  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/first-world-war/search-merchant-navy-1915-crew-lists/?utm_source=The+National+Archives&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5900568_July+2015+enewsletter&utm_content=1915+Crew+Lists> Regards,Adi From: Anne Capewell via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: "mariners@rootsweb.com" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:30 PM Subject: [MAR] Testers from Shoreham Hi all, I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. So far: Ocean Queen Apprenticed 5/11/1872 - 3 years Shoreham Wave Queen Day Star 11/11/1876 - 16/12/1876 Queen Plymouth Shamrock 13/01/1880 Southampton - 15/03/1880 South Shields Shamrock 16/03/1880 South Shields - 23/03/1880 South Shields (why just a week??) Targus Hark Away 01/07/1884 - 31/12/1884 - remained at end of voyage The apprenticeship record is from Ancestry and the remainder from West Sussex Records Office. As you can see there are gaps and nothing from 1885 to his death. He was a labourer in 1881, a 'mariner' in 1891, wasn't at home in 1901 and a 'ship's cook' in 1911. I may also have found apprenticeship records for 3 of his brothers - John b1844 on the Gazelle 17/03/1861 for 3 years (and aboard the Gazelle in the 1861 census) James b1846 on the Gazelle 16/06/1860 for 6 years William b1848 on the Hibernia 18/10/1865 for 3 years 6 months. What I don't have is concrete proof (if there is such a thing) that they are his brothers. Please can anyone point me in the right direction for any further records that may exist for these men? many thanks, Anne                         ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. So far: Ocean Queen Apprenticed 5/11/1872 - 3 years Shoreham Wave Queen Day Star 11/11/1876 - 16/12/1876 Queen Plymouth Shamrock 13/01/1880 Southampton - 15/03/1880 South Shields Shamrock 16/03/1880 South Shields - 23/03/1880 South Shields (why just a week??) Targus Hark Away 01/07/1884 - 31/12/1884 - remained at end of voyage The apprenticeship record is from Ancestry and the remainder from West Sussex Records Office. As you can see there are gaps and nothing from 1885 to his death. He was a labourer in 1881, a 'mariner' in 1891, wasn't at home in 1901 and a 'ship's cook' in 1911. I may also have found apprenticeship records for 3 of his brothers - John b1844 on the Gazelle 17/03/1861 for 3 years (and aboard the Gazelle in the 1861 census) James b1846 on the Gazelle 16/06/1860 for 6 years William b1848 on the Hibernia 18/10/1865 for 3 years 6 months. What I don't have is concrete proof (if there is such a thing) that they are his brothers. Please can anyone point me in the right direction for any further records that may exist for these men? many thanks, Anne

Some info on this Clyde-built steamer is at www.clydeships.co.uk/view.php?ref=22987. See also http://www.flotilla-australia.com/nsw-other.htm#smspco but clearly she was not scrapped in 1863 - and the illustration may not be right as it seems to depict a screw steamer, not paddle. David Asprey On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Jackie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello all,I wonder if you could help? I have found reference to a ship i > believe was my ancestors but the information provided is limited! I have > had a look at the 1866/68 lloyd's register but can't seem to find it. Do > you have any ideas on where i could search? The information is from the > Jardine Matheson archives which i highly doubt i will be able to > access.Jardine Matheson ArchiveTitleCertificate of sale of the > 'London'ReferenceMS JM/F6/6Covering Dates1867Extent and Medium1 itemContent > and contextA certificate of sale by Edward Byrne of Hong Kong for his > British ship the 'London', appointing James Whittall of Hong Kong, > merchant, to sell the vessel, dated Hong Kong, 11 February 1867. > Hope you can help > Jackie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello all,I wonder if you could help? I have found reference to a ship i believe was my ancestors but the information provided is limited! I have had a look at the 1866/68 lloyd's register but can't seem to find it. Do you have any ideas on where i could search? The information is from the Jardine Matheson archives which i highly doubt i will be able to access.Jardine Matheson ArchiveTitleCertificate of sale of the 'London'ReferenceMS JM/F6/6Covering Dates1867Extent and Medium1 itemContent and contextA certificate of sale by Edward Byrne of Hong Kong for his British ship the 'London', appointing James Whittall of Hong Kong, merchant, to sell the vessel, dated Hong Kong, 11 February 1867. Hope you can help Jackie

Hello Adi, That was potentially a very useful suggestion but Adam Wilson's Cert. No. was 23,386 so his travels were not recorded in BT 124 after 1851. However, his father and another shipmaster from the same village I am interested in had higher numbers and are reported there. So that helps. A useful resource with your table showing where to look. thanks again, Alan Cairnie On 18-Aug-15 10:10 PM, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > Hello Alan, > > Do you have his certificate number? With that, you *might* pick him up > using TNA file BT 124 which is a free download. > > See my February 2013 post about this source in The Mariners List > Archives here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MARINERS/2013-02/1360080896 > > Regards, > Adi > > > > > RootsWeb: MARINERS-L [MAR] BT 124 - Online Alternative (partially) to > Lloyd's CaptainsRegisters > <http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MARINERS/2013-02/1360080896> > > Dear all, As I work my way through The National Archives BT files > online, here's a real beauty detailing voyages in numerical master's > ticket number order. > > View on archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com > <http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MARINERS/2013-02/1360080896> > > Preview by Yahoo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Alan Cairnie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > *To:* mariners list <Mariners@rootsweb.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2015 10:49 PM > *Subject:* [MAR] Adam Wilson (1839-1888?) > > I am interested in the career of this man to whom I am related. I am > trying to fill in the latter part of his career. From the printed > Lloyd's Register of Captains (1869), his submission for his master's > certificate and Lloyd's Register of Ships I can trace his early > career > up to the Janet Court of Glasgow (Reg'n no. 50373) of which he was > the > master in 1869 and 1870. However, W is one of the letters which have > not been indexed for the Lloyd's Register of Captains after 1869. > There > is a report on Ancestry of his death at sea in 1888 and family > legend is > that this was near Archangel. > > Any suggestions of how to proceed without visiting London? > > Alan Cairnie > Brockville, Ontario > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello Alan, Do you have his certificate number? With that, you *might* pick him up using TNA file BT 124 which is a free download. See my February 2013 post about this source in The Mariners List Archives here:http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/MARINERS/2013-02/1360080896 Regards,Adi   |   | |   |   |   |   |   | | RootsWeb: MARINERS-L [MAR] BT 124 - Online Alternative (partially) to Lloyd's CaptainsRegistersDear all,   As I work my way through The National Archives BT files online, here's a real beauty detailing voyages in numerical master's ticket number order.   | | | | View on archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | |   | From: Alan Cairnie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners list <Mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 10:49 PM Subject: [MAR] Adam Wilson (1839-1888?) I am interested in the career of this man to whom I am related.  I am trying to fill in the latter part of his career.  From the printed Lloyd's Register of Captains (1869), his submission for his master's certificate and Lloyd's Register of Ships I can trace his early career up to the Janet Court of Glasgow (Reg'n no. 50373) of which he was the master in 1869 and 1870.  However, W is one of the letters which have not been indexed for the Lloyd's Register of Captains after 1869.  There is a report on Ancestry of his death at sea in 1888 and family legend is that this was near Archangel. Any suggestions of how to proceed without visiting London? Alan Cairnie Brockville, Ontario ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I cannot find anything more than you have , although I am sure there will be more . The barque Isabella is not easy either , there are a number of ships of this name and one was on the emigrant run to Australia ......the Lloyds list also has a number of Isabellas around the time your ancestor was on his apprenticeship .. -----Original Message----- From: Jackie via Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2015 10:10 AM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Merchant Seaman records search & decode! Hello, Can you help or suggest another avenue name variation etc to search?What i do knowEdward Byrne b 1823 Liverpoolregistered seamans ticket (BT113) his ticket no is 259 897 states he went to sea as an apprentice in 1839 not in the RN or foreign servicehis list of testimonials & statement of service states he was an apprentice on the apprentice on the barque Isabella registered at Preston for 4 years (2nd mate for the last 14months) & as chief mate for 1yr 5 months on the same vessel, i'm guessing he signed on again after his apprenticeship ended??I can not find a record of his apprentice records :-( Any thoughts or clues on where to look?Also on his seamans ticket in the column's 1846/47/48 out & home there are numbers (not dates) any idea what these may be? ie 1847 Out column has the number 633622 there are full stops underneath the last No 3 & the first No 2 there is then a large X that goes through the 1847 home & 1848 out then in the 1848 home column the number 63362! 2in the 1847 Out column under the 633622 is the number 62378 (full stops under the No's 2 & 7) the same large X between 1847 home & 1848 out, then in the home column is the number 62.7.1 i can provide a picture if this would help? Hope you can help me, ThanksJackie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello, Can you help or suggest another avenue name variation etc to search?What i do knowEdward Byrne b 1823 Liverpoolregistered seamans ticket (BT113) his ticket no is 259 897 states he went to sea as an apprentice in 1839 not in the RN or foreign servicehis list of testimonials & statement of service states he was an apprentice on the apprentice on the barque Isabella registered at Preston for 4 years (2nd mate for the last 14months) & as chief mate for 1yr 5 months on the same vessel, i'm guessing he signed on again after his apprenticeship ended??I can not find a record of his apprentice records :-( Any thoughts or clues on where to look?Also on his seamans ticket in the column's 1846/47/48 out & home there are numbers (not dates) any idea what these may be? ie 1847 Out column has the number 633622 there are full stops underneath the last No 3 & the first No 2 there is then a large X that goes through the 1847 home & 1848 out then in the 1848 home column the number 633622in the 1847 Out column under the 633622 is the number 62378 (full stops under the No's 2 & 7) the same large X between 1847 home & 1848 out, then in the home column is the number 62.7.1 i can provide a picture if this would help? Hope you can help me, ThanksJackie

The National Archives announce the release of naval service records in ADM 362 and ADM 363 ie for ratings who enlisted before 1923 and served after 1924. <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/newly-digitised-records-complete-story-of-naval-careers/?363&utm_source=The+National+Archives&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=6014390_August+2015+enewsletter&utm_content=AD326> http://tinyurl.com/qxk7g93 For those that joined after 1926, service records remain at the MoD. I would hazard a guess that for some this could take us up to 1945, or even a little later if they joined as boys, who could have served from the age of 15 and could have served for 25 years, 3 boy's and 22 man's time. Paul

Hi list, I downloaded the page for John ARCHIBALD #119,305 on BT 113/60. Could some person please interpret what the columns dated 1846 & 1847 say? I am also trying to locate a ship on which he served without luck. Also downloaded BT 114/1 page too. Another person who is ‘invisible’ when trawling through the censuses!!! Many thanks for your help. Michele in Sydney Australia

If you can scan these pages in and send them to me , I will give them a go , but if its MN jargon and hieroglyphics then I may not be much help !! -----Original Message----- From: lynsmum via Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 7:09 AM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] MERCHANT NAY SEAMEN BT 113/60 Hi list, I downloaded the page for John ARCHIBALD #119,305 on BT 113/60. Could some person please interpret what the columns dated 1846 & 1847 say? I am also trying to locate a ship on which he served without luck. Also downloaded BT 114/1 page too. Another person who is ‘invisible’ when trawling through the censuses!!! Many thanks for your help. Michele in Sydney Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I am interested in the career of this man to whom I am related. I am trying to fill in the latter part of his career. From the printed Lloyd's Register of Captains (1869), his submission for his master's certificate and Lloyd's Register of Ships I can trace his early career up to the Janet Court of Glasgow (Reg'n no. 50373) of which he was the master in 1869 and 1870. However, W is one of the letters which have not been indexed for the Lloyd's Register of Captains after 1869. There is a report on Ancestry of his death at sea in 1888 and family legend is that this was near Archangel. Any suggestions of how to proceed without visiting London? Alan Cairnie Brockville, Ontario

Good morning listers. Many thanks to all those who have offered help with the NSW Library.Very happy to report the problem is now solved.I sent the PDF back to library and challenged them to read it, which they could not. Checked my in box last night and they have now sent me a coloured scan instead of B & W and the image is perfect. With regards to finding a crew list before 1835, I was very surprised. The document was in a folder marked "Misc. Convict Papers". it appears that when the authorities did the Convict muster on the ship's arrival in December 1829, they also chose to record the ship's officers and crew at the same time. It makes you wonder if they did such lists for other convict ships? Must admit I have concentrated my research in NSW on the Archives, never for once imagining that the State Library would have such documents. Thanks again to all. John > From: chrism@webone.com.au > To: jtgoold@hotmail.com; mariners@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [MAR] State Library N.S.W. look up > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2015 23:14:35 +1000 > > John, If you can give me the series no. the record may also be in the > National Library here in Canberra. Although I am surprised because I didn't > think crew lists existed for 1829. > Chris Mobbs > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Goold [mailto:jtgoold@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, 11 August 2015 1:18 PM > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MAR] State Library N.S.W. look up > > Greetings listers, > Is there some kind sole on the list who can look at a document for me at the > Sate Library of NSW? > I have found a crew list for the ship I am researching and having paid my > $16.50, have been sent a document that is barely readable, with most names > totally unreadable. The crew list is from 1829 so a real bonus find but not > much help to me in it's current state.I have complained but it seems to no > avail.I live in Tasmania so getting to the NSW State Library is currently > not an option. > John Goold >

John, If you can give me the series no. the record may also be in the National Library here in Canberra. Although I am surprised because I didn't think crew lists existed for 1829. Chris Mobbs -----Original Message----- From: John Goold [mailto:jtgoold@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 11 August 2015 1:18 PM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] State Library N.S.W. look up Greetings listers, Is there some kind sole on the list who can look at a document for me at the Sate Library of NSW? I have found a crew list for the ship I am researching and having paid my $16.50, have been sent a document that is barely readable, with most names totally unreadable. The crew list is from 1829 so a real bonus find but not much help to me in it's current state.I have complained but it seems to no avail.I live in Tasmania so getting to the NSW State Library is currently not an option. John Goold

Hi all, I am trying to locate information on the following two ships.I am seeking the histories and final fates of both,any assistance will be greatly appreciated. BERENGUER built 1857 by Caird & Co of Greenock 990 gross tons iron steamship subsequently owned by a Spanish company and renamed RITA –SHEREFF INNISHOWEN built 1881 by Napier,Shanks & Bell of Yoker, near Glasgow 120 gross tons iron paddle steamer for Lough Swilly SS Co. [McCrae & McFarland] Belfast & Londonderry. Taken out of service 1912. Thank you in advance. Joe McMillan, South Australia. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

That was certainly the custom in the 20th century. There did not seem to be any actual stewards as such on this voyage (see my reply to Piers). In fact, since the stated capacity of the Parthia was 150 First Class and 1000 Third class passengers I wonder how they managed! Perhaps this voyage was not at full capacity. David On 11/08/2015 15:02, Ruth wrote: > My Dad served in the Merchant Navy from 1926 to 1930 for the Lamport and > Holt line out of Liverpool. He was a "Steward" in first class. He told me > that his duties were to "look after" several passengers - not only wait on > them at table but look after their clothes, cabins , etc. One passenger, > who was on board from South America to Liverpool, told him he would get one > gold sovereign for each day at sea if he did a good job. At the end of the > trip he was given a leather pouch full of sovereigns..... He still had one > when he died in the 1980s. > > Ruth > >

Hi Piers Thank you for that, which makes sense. Looking again I see that the actual date of this voyage was February 1878. The list enumerates 2 Officers 1 carpenter 2 bosuns 30 able seamen 4 engineers 9 firemen 4 trimmers 9 waiters 4 cooks When I have more time it would be interesting to research whether this was a typical complement for the time. David On 11/08/2015 14:50, Piers Smith-Cresswell wrote: > Hi David > > In the 19th Century a "Steward" on a merchant ship usually meant the > person who was responsible for catering and generally looking > after the Captain and officers of the vessel. He had a responsibility > for stores and this was recognised by his receiving higher wages - > very roughly speaking not quite twice that of an Able Seaman, and > roughly on parity with the other "day-men" - the Bosun, cook, > carpenter and sailmaker (in early 20th Cenury sailing ship crew lists > I have, the Steward was actually the highest-paid "day-man" by a few > shillings). A "waiter" on the other hand sounds as if he was just > that - skilled at waiting on table, but without the specialist > responsibilities of a steward and doubtless paid much less. Over > time, I think the term "steward" slipped to include "waiters". I > don't know when that happened - maybe we have here an instance of > someone being particular about insisting that the right terminology > was used, maybe to distinguish THE Steward from his minions. I would > guess that there might have been a "purser" or "steward" on board as > well who would have been the 9 waiters' boss? > > Cheers > Piers > > On 11 August 2015 at 12:05, David Marshall via <mariners@rootsweb.com > <mailto:mariners@rootsweb.com>> wrote: > > In a crew list for the Parthia (a Cunard passenger steamship on the > North Atlantic run in 1874) in the list of crew occupations the entry > for "9 stewards" has been crossed out and "9 waiters" substituted. > Does anyone know why it might have been important to make this > distinction? > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com > <mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

My Dad served in the Merchant Navy from 1926 to 1930 for the Lamport and Holt line out of Liverpool. He was a "Steward" in first class. He told me that his duties were to "look after" several passengers - not only wait on them at table but look after their clothes, cabins , etc. One passenger, who was on board from South America to Liverpool, told him he would get one gold sovereign for each day at sea if he did a good job. At the end of the trip he was given a leather pouch full of sovereigns..... He still had one when he died in the 1980s. Ruth

Hi David In the 19th Century a "Steward" on a merchant ship usually meant the person who was responsible for catering and generally looking after the Captain and officers of the vessel. He had a responsibility for stores and this was recognised by his receiving higher wages - very roughly speaking not quite twice that of an Able Seaman, and roughly on parity with the other "day-men" - the Bosun, cook, carpenter and sailmaker (in early 20th Cenury sailing ship crew lists I have, the Steward was actually the highest-paid "day-man" by a few shillings). A "waiter" on the other hand sounds as if he was just that - skilled at waiting on table, but without the specialist responsibilities of a steward and doubtless paid much less. Over time, I think the term "steward" slipped to include "waiters". I don't know when that happened - maybe we have here an instance of someone being particular about insisting that the right terminology was used, maybe to distinguish THE Steward from his minions. I would guess that there might have been a "purser" or "steward" on board as well who would have been the 9 waiters' boss? Cheers Piers On 11 August 2015 at 12:05, David Marshall via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > In a crew list for the Parthia (a Cunard passenger steamship on the > North Atlantic run in 1874) in the list of crew occupations the entry > for "9 stewards" has been crossed out and "9 waiters" substituted. > Does anyone know why it might have been important to make this distinction? > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greetings listers, Is there some kind sole on the list who can look at a document for me at the Sate Library of NSW? I have found a crew list for the ship I am researching and having paid my $16.50, have been sent a document that is barely readable, with most names totally unreadable. The crew list is from 1829 so a real bonus find but not much help to me in it's current state.I have complained but it seems to no avail.I live in Tasmania so getting to the NSW State Library is currently not an option. John Goold