Hi Adi, Absolutely no offence taken <g>. Yes I have been through Ancestry (on a recent free weekend as well as in the past) and it was the release of the merchant seamen apprentice records on FMP that got me looking there again (my mum has a subscription). I do have his medal card and his Tower Hill monument inscription and even where the SS John Miles currently lies. We found some further info on past ships in WSRO but, as ever, there are gaps. We are gradually filling them in but I think that we have done the 'easy' parts and now need to undertake some detective work. As with all genealogy it is a case of chipping away at that wall! However I do have more on him (and his brothers) than most of his predecessors as they were Ag Labs and gypsies!! Oh for a pedigree to follow................ Many thanks for your help, Anne > > Hello Anne, > You wrote:"I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was wondering (hoping!)?if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service personnel records." > ?The answer is a *qualified* yes. Some of the sources do have spaces for that sort of information, but they are not consistently enough filled in to be depended upon. > Now I apologize for reading too much into your very first post where you wrote:"I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. " > Since you had already seen the census-es, that suggested that you had already been through Ancestry and FindMyPast, both of whom have several sets of TNA merchant navy records. Have you? If not, try there next. To best of my knowledge, FMP is always a pay site, but Ancestry can be accessed for free on the in-house computers of many public libraries. > It won't be as easy to find records to trace the career of a cook-and-steward as it would have been if he were a master, mate or engineer, (rueful smile), but then ..... 'twas ever thus - the officers get lots of ink, and the other ranks get next-to-none. > Do you already have your Emmanuel's WWI medal card? You can buy it over the internet for 3.30 GBP by credit card.http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=Emmanuel%20tester&_dss=range&_ro=any > Regards,Adi?

Bud, Your contact may also be interested in the article at: http://dickatlee.com/misc/freighter_life/freighter_life.html This includes a photo of your CITY OF ALMA and photos of cabins said to be similar to those on board her. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 09/09/2015 16:52, Bud Shortridge wrote: > Thank you very, very much...............I will send this info on to > this particular individual > Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well > My "Web Sites of Interest" > "*_My Blog_*" > *Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest > <http://navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/>* > "*_Ship Histories_*" > *Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories* > <http://home.comcast.net/%7Ecshortridge/site/> > > > > On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 11:26 AM, Ron Mapplebeck > <ronmapplebeck@virginmedia.com> wrote: > > > Bud, > > Yes, Waterman SS Corp had a later CITY OF ALMA, 6165gt, completed at > Chickasaw in May 1945. She lasted under that one and only name until > arriving at Kaohsiung on 18.1.72 to be broken up by Tai Kuen Industry Co > Ltd. > > Ron Mapplebeck (UK) > **** > > On 09/09/2015 15:56, Bud Shortridge via wrote: > > Greetings to the Group.A gentleman contacted me with a question > about the SS City of Alma. He tells me his mother-in-law came to the > United States from a German concentration camp in 1948, and her > personal papers states she was transported via the SS City of Alma. I > am well aware that there was a "SS City of Alma" torpedoed by a German > U-boat in 1942.................so my question to the > group..........was there "another" vessel re-named "SS City of > Alma?"Another piece of evidence is.......there is also a document > stating that the SS City of Alma, arrived in Hawaii in > 1948............. Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of > Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship > Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com <mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of the message > > >

Hi in the UK National Archives is a reference BT 26/1219/75 referring to London: SS City of Alma ( Waterman Steamship Corp ) travelling from Mobile to London . Embarking at Mobile . List of passengers disembarking at London . 7 Aug 1946 . -----Original Message----- From: Bud Shortridge via Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 4:52 PM To: Ron Mapplebeck ; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] SS City of Alma Thank you very, very much...............I will send this info on to this particular individual Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 11:26 AM, Ron Mapplebeck <ronmapplebeck@virginmedia.com> wrote: Bud, Yes, Waterman SS Corp had a later CITY OF ALMA, 6165gt, completed at Chickasaw in May 1945. She lasted under that one and only name until arriving at Kaohsiung on 18.1.72 to be broken up by Tai Kuen Industry Co Ltd. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 09/09/2015 15:56, Bud Shortridge via wrote: > Greetings to the Group.A gentleman contacted me with a question about the > SS City of Alma. He tells me his mother-in-law came to the United States > from a German concentration camp in 1948, and her personal papers states > she was transported via the SS City of Alma. I am well aware that there > was a "SS City of Alma" torpedoed by a German U-boat in > 1942.................so my question to the group..........was there > "another" vessel re-named "SS City of Alma?"Another piece of evidence > is.......there is also a document stating that the SS City of Alma, > arrived in Hawaii in 1948............. Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My > "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest > "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Albie, Mentions and dates of that voyage by FANNY here: http://www.geni.com/projects/1820-British-Settlers-in-South-Africa/162 and here: http://www.geni.com/projects/1820-Settlers-Butler-s-Party/9933 FANNY brought Irish emigrants from the port of Cork, Ireland. Here's a quote from another website:"The English settled in South Africa mostly after 1820 when a group of 3,675 British subjects settled in eastern Cape Province in that year. These settlers are well documented. A memorial museum that has genealogies of their descendants is located at: Albany Museum Somerset Street Grahamstown 6140 South Africa Web site: http://www.ru.ac.za/affiliates/am/      " Since FANNY was chartered to carry "assisted" emigrants, there may well be references to FANNY and Sadler at TNA, possibly? in Admiralty papers? Re Mate/Only Mate, there is a good description on the website of The Mariners List here:http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/GenBosunMastersExam.html Regards,Adi   From: Albie <albie@astonbay.co.za> To: 'Mme_N_Carmichael' <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca>; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 5:45 AM Subject: RE: [MAR] Capt Sadler <!--#yiv4887012955 _filtered #yiv4887012955 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4887012955 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4887012955 {font-family:helveticaneue;}#yiv4887012955 #yiv4887012955 p.yiv4887012955MsoNormal, #yiv4887012955 li.yiv4887012955MsoNormal, #yiv4887012955 div.yiv4887012955MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv4887012955 a:link, #yiv4887012955 span.yiv4887012955MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4887012955 a:visited, #yiv4887012955 span.yiv4887012955MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4887012955 p.yiv4887012955MsoAcetate, #yiv4887012955 li.yiv4887012955MsoAcetate, #yiv4887012955 div.yiv4887012955MsoAcetate {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";}#yiv4887012955 span.yiv4887012955BalloonTextChar {font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";}#yiv4887012955 span.yiv4887012955EmailStyle19 {font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;}#yiv4887012955 .yiv4887012955MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4887012955 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4887012955 div.yiv4887012955WordSection1 {}-->Thank you very much Adi for your willingness to help again!The information I have is from the 1820 settlers that came to South Africa and settled near Grahamstown South Africa and was well documentedThis Capt. Sadler and the “Fanny” was one of the ships bringing in a settler group and his son Thomas Farrar Sadler (1799-180) came out with him and stayed. From my records it seems that the first name “William” is most likely and “Thomas” as a second. I think that #146 as you mentioned below is  most probably correct.Adi, can one get more information about this William Sadler somewhere from mariner’s resources?Can you perhaps tell me the difference between the rank as “Mate” and “Only Mate” the latter being a certificate of one of our family members? Regards, Albie    From: Mme_N_Carmichael [mailto:mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 4:12 AM To: Albie; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler  Hello Albie,  Do you have a first name for Captain Sadler? Or any other information or context?  The newspapers show a FANNY with Sadler as master in 1816 and 1817 trading Pernambuco  <-> London.  Lloyd's 1820 Register of Shipping here:http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.htmlshows FANNY, a London transport, with master W. Sadler as #146 under the "F", but the information in those registers is often up to a year out of date.However the same information does also appear in the 1821 edition.  But ... I don't see any 1820 references to FANNY under Sadler in the 1820 Lloyd's List newspaper here:http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?q1=Sadler;id=hvd.32044105226344;view=1up;seq=5;start=11;sz=10;page=search;orient=0  Regards,Adi   From: Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hi, Could someone please guide me to research Capt Sadler and the ship "Fanny" in 1820 to East London, South Africa? Regards, Albie Gibson, South Africa

Bud, Yes, Waterman SS Corp had a later CITY OF ALMA, 6165gt, completed at Chickasaw in May 1945. She lasted under that one and only name until arriving at Kaohsiung on 18.1.72 to be broken up by Tai Kuen Industry Co Ltd. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 09/09/2015 15:56, Bud Shortridge via wrote: > Greetings to the Group.A gentleman contacted me with a question about the SS City of Alma. He tells me his mother-in-law came to the United States from a German concentration camp in 1948, and her personal papers states she was transported via the SS City of Alma. I am well aware that there was a "SS City of Alma" torpedoed by a German U-boat in 1942.................so my question to the group..........was there "another" vessel re-named "SS City of Alma?"Another piece of evidence is.......there is also a document stating that the SS City of Alma, arrived in Hawaii in 1948............. Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you very, very much...............I will send this info on to this particular individual Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories    On Wednesday, September 9, 2015 11:26 AM, Ron Mapplebeck <ronmapplebeck@virginmedia.com> wrote: Bud, Yes, Waterman SS Corp had a later CITY OF ALMA, 6165gt, completed at Chickasaw in May 1945. She lasted under that one and only name until arriving at Kaohsiung on 18.1.72 to be broken up by Tai Kuen Industry Co Ltd. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 09/09/2015 15:56, Bud Shortridge via wrote: > Greetings to the Group.A gentleman contacted me with a question about the SS City of Alma.  He tells me his mother-in-law came to the United States from a German concentration camp in 1948, and her personal papers states she was transported via the SS City of Alma.  I am well aware that there was a "SS City of Alma" torpedoed by a German U-boat in 1942.................so my question to the group..........was there "another" vessel re-named  "SS City of Alma?"Another piece of evidence is.......there is also a document stating that the SS City of Alma, arrived in Hawaii in 1948.............  Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings to the Group.A gentleman contacted me with a question about the SS City of Alma.  He tells me his mother-in-law came to the United States from a German concentration camp in 1948, and her personal papers states she was transported via the SS City of Alma.  I am well aware that there was a "SS City of Alma" torpedoed by a German U-boat in 1942.................so my question to the group..........was there "another" vessel re-named  "SS City of Alma?"Another piece of evidence is.......there is also a document stating that the SS City of Alma, arrived in Hawaii in 1948.............  Bud & R.J.....We Wish You Well My "Web Sites of Interest""My Blog"Naval & Merchant Ship Articles of Interest "Ship Histories" Bud's Naval & Merchant Ship Histories   

Thank you very much Adi for your willingness to help again! The information I have is from the 1820 settlers that came to South Africa and settled near Grahamstown South Africa and was well documented This Capt. Sadler and the “Fanny” was one of the ships bringing in a settler group and his son Thomas Farrar Sadler (1799-180) came out with him and stayed. >From my records it seems that the first name “William” is most likely and “Thomas” as a second. I think that #146 as you mentioned below is most probably correct. Adi, can one get more information about this William Sadler somewhere from mariner’s resources? Can you perhaps tell me the difference between the rank as “Mate” and “Only Mate” the latter being a certificate of one of our family members? Regards, Albie From: Mme_N_Carmichael [mailto:mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 4:12 AM To: Albie; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hello Albie, Do you have a first name for Captain Sadler? Or any other information or context? The newspapers show a FANNY with Sadler as master in 1816 and 1817 trading Pernambuco <-> London. Lloyd's 1820 Register of Shipping here: http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html shows FANNY, a London transport, with master W. Sadler as #146 under the "F", but the information in those registers is often up to a year out of date. However the same information does also appear in the 1821 edition. But ... I don't see any 1820 references to FANNY under Sadler in the 1820 Lloyd's List newspaper here: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?q1=Sadler;id=hvd.32044105226344;view=1up;seq=5;start=11;sz=10;page=search;orient=0 Regards, Adi _____ From: Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hi, Could someone please guide me to research Capt Sadler and the ship "Fanny" in 1820 to East London, South Africa? Regards, Albie Gibson, South Africa

Hi, Britishnewspapersarchive has a couple of very interesting snippets on the Fanny and Capt Sadler . The Public Ledger and Daily Advertiser of Tuesday 29th April 1817 , says "A chartered ship - Has room for a few tons of measurement Goods, and will be dispatched immediately . For the Cape of Good Hope, the fine fast sailing coppered ship FANNY , William Sadler , Commander. For Freight etc app= (?) Laurence Swainson , Nag`s Head court, Gracechurch St, or to Day and McLean , 1 Clements Lane . Lombard St. " Same publication , but Friday 27th November 1818 , " A chartered ship warranted to sail on or before the 7th Decomber Direct for Leghorn . The remarkably fine , fast sailing Brig William and Mary , A 1 , William Sadler , commander, lying at the Hermitage, burthen 154 tons. " Hope this is of interest . -----Original Message----- From: Albie via Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 10:45 AM To: 'Mme_N_Carmichael' ; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Thank you very much Adi for your willingness to help again! The information I have is from the 1820 settlers that came to South Africa and settled near Grahamstown South Africa and was well documented This Capt. Sadler and the “Fanny” was one of the ships bringing in a settler group and his son Thomas Farrar Sadler (1799-180) came out with him and stayed. >From my records it seems that the first name “William” is most likely and “Thomas” as a second. I think that #146 as you mentioned below is most probably correct. Adi, can one get more information about this William Sadler somewhere from mariner’s resources? Can you perhaps tell me the difference between the rank as “Mate” and “Only Mate” the latter being a certificate of one of our family members? Regards, Albie From: Mme_N_Carmichael [mailto:mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 4:12 AM To: Albie; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hello Albie, Do you have a first name for Captain Sadler? Or any other information or context? The newspapers show a FANNY with Sadler as master in 1816 and 1817 trading Pernambuco <-> London. Lloyd's 1820 Register of Shipping here: http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html shows FANNY, a London transport, with master W. Sadler as #146 under the "F", but the information in those registers is often up to a year out of date. However the same information does also appear in the 1821 edition. But ... I don't see any 1820 references to FANNY under Sadler in the 1820 Lloyd's List newspaper here: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?q1=Sadler;id=hvd.32044105226344;view=1up;seq=5;start=11;sz=10;page=search;orient=0 Regards, Adi _____ From: Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hi, Could someone please guide me to research Capt Sadler and the ship "Fanny" in 1820 to East London, South Africa? Regards, Albie Gibson, South Africa ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Anne, You wrote:"I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was wondering (hoping!) if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service personnel records."  The answer is a *qualified* yes. Some of the sources do have spaces for that sort of information, but they are not consistently enough filled in to be depended upon. Now I apologize for reading too much into your very first post where you wrote:"I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. " Since you had already seen the census-es, that suggested that you had already been through Ancestry and FindMyPast, both of whom have several sets of TNA merchant navy records. Have you? If not, try there next. To best of my knowledge, FMP is always a pay site, but Ancestry can be accessed for free on the in-house computers of many public libraries. It won't be as easy to find records to trace the career of a cook-and-steward as it would have been if he were a master, mate or engineer, (rueful smile), but then ..... 'twas ever thus - the officers get lots of ink, and the other ranks get next-to-none. Do you already have your Emmanuel's WWI medal card? You can buy it over the internet for 3.30 GBP by credit card.http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=Emmanuel%20tester&_dss=range&_ro=any Regards,Adi  <!--#yiv2813925176 .yiv2813925176hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv2813925176 body.yiv2813925176hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}-->

Hello Albie, Do you have a first name for Captain Sadler? Or any other information or context? The newspapers show a FANNY with Sadler as master in 1816 and 1817 trading Pernambuco  <-> London. Lloyd's 1820 Register of Shipping here:http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.htmlshows FANNY, a London transport, with master W. Sadler as #146 under the "F", but the information in those registers is often up to a year out of date.However the same information does also appear in the 1821 edition. But ... I don't see any 1820 references to FANNY under Sadler in the 1820 Lloyd's List newspaper here:http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?q1=Sadler;id=hvd.32044105226344;view=1up;seq=5;start=11;sz=10;page=search;orient=0 Regards,Adi   From: Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2015 5:15 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Capt Sadler Hi, Could someone please guide me to research Capt Sadler and the ship "Fanny" in 1820 to East London, South Africa? Regards, Albie Gibson, South Africa

Hi, Could someone please guide me to research Capt Sadler and the ship "Fanny" in 1820 to East London, South Africa? Regards, Albie Gibson, South Africa

Hi Piers and Adi, Many thanks for your replies. You have kindly given me several avenues to explore. Having looked at these briefly I can see that it will be a gradual process of finding one of the ships, finding where the records are held, viewing (or ordering) the information which will hopefully give me another ship to repeat the process! I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was wondering (hoping!) if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service personnel records. all the best,Anne > Hi Anne > > Just to expand upon Adi's post... as she says it looks as if Emmanuel > served on JOHN MILES for several years (at least 1915-17). If you get > copies of the 1915 crew lists from the National archives (you only really > need the earlier one) it will give you the date of the particular > voyages. We know that before the earlier of those he was also on the > JOHN MILES (as it is shown as his previous ship), so it is then a question > of working back through the crew lists for that ship voyage by voyage until > his previous ship becomes something different - and then get THAT agreement > and work back from there. Success isn't guaranteed because if he took a > long break between voyages, or signed on a foreign ship, or gave false > details at any point (for example to disguise the fact that he had deserted > somewhere along the way) then the chain will stretch and could be broken, > but IN THEORY you might be able to follow his entire career back to the > point you lost him. > > There may be other agreements in the NA (they have only indexed 1915 at > that level of details), but the Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland > have several crew agreements for the ship back to 1908: see > https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=125659 - > note that they don't seem to be aware of the 1915 ones in the NA so there > may be others. The MHA can do some of the legwork for you and their > research prices for looking for agreements are not exorbitant, though of > course it all adds up. One can ask them to work back through the lists for > you and only copy those agreements in which a Emmanuel appears (and > obviously, to stop with the list on which he joins the ship). > > "The Ships and Mariners of Shoreham" by Henry Cheal Jr might be of interest > - it is a bit frustrating as there is no index and original copies are > expensive, but I think you can buy reprints at abebooks. I glanced at it > just now but no names sprang out at me. > > Cheers > Piers > > > > On 4 September 2015 at 01:44, Mme_N_Carmichael via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > Hello Anne, > > Erm ... The Mariners List concerns itself only with mariners. Whether any > > of John (1844) or James (1846) or William (1848) were brothers to your > > Emmanuel/Emanuel (1856?) is beyond the scope of this list. You will have to > > establish that or not through general genealogy sources. > > For researching mariners, I suggest that you "lurk" on this list for a > > while and skim all the posts. You'll pick up many sources and tips that way. > > That said, here are two bits: > > 1) A John Tester born 1844, Shoreham, was cook and seaman on the DARE of > > Portsmouth, ON (= Official Number) 35218, during the first 6 months of > > 1866. He had previously been on the JOHN SHARP of Shoreham.Source: CLIP > > Crew List Index > > http://www.crewlist.org.uk/crew/crew.php?target=tester&searchtype=Exact&initial=&dob=&submit=+Search+ > > 2) Your Emmanuel appears to have been on the JOHN MILES, ON 125659, for a > > few years. He made two voyages on her as cook and steward in 1915.Source: > > free online 1915 merchant navy crew lists > > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/first-world-war/search-merchant-navy-1915-crew-lists/?utm_source=The+National+Archives&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5900568_July+2015+enewsletter&utm_content=1915+Crew+Lists > > > > > Regards,Adi

Hi, Many thanks for your reply. I was not looking for confirmation of Emmanuel's family as such, as I am aware that this list is not the place. What I was hoping was that some mariner records may supply extra info, such as next of kin or birthplace or similar, in the way that some military records do. all the best, Anne > From: elizgh@btinternet.com > To: alc_goytre@hotmail.com; mariners@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MAR] Testers from Shoreham > Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:41:23 +0100 > > Aware that this is the Mariners list , in the > 1861 census Emanuel b 1855 Southwick , Sussex , is living in New Shoreham > with his parents Mathew and Ellen, his uncle John Downer, and brother > William , Henry and sister Mary Ann. 10 years earlier Mathew and Ellen have > John, James , William and Henry . > > -----Original Message----- > From: Anne Capewell via > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 11:30 PM > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MAR] Testers from Shoreham > > Hi all, > > I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, > Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on > the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc > but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', > merchant navy connections. So far: > > Ocean Queen Apprenticed 5/11/1872 - 3 years Shoreham > Wave Queen > Day Star 11/11/1876 - 16/12/1876 > Queen Plymouth > Shamrock 13/01/1880 Southampton - 15/03/1880 South Shields > Shamrock 16/03/1880 South Shields - 23/03/1880 South Shields (why just a > week??) > Targus > Hark Away 01/07/1884 - 31/12/1884 - remained at end of voyage > > The apprenticeship record is from Ancestry and the remainder from West > Sussex Records Office. > > As you can see there are gaps and nothing from 1885 to his death. He was a > labourer in 1881, a 'mariner' in 1891, wasn't at home in 1901 and a 'ship's > cook' in 1911. > > I may also have found apprenticeship records for 3 of his brothers - > John b1844 on the Gazelle 17/03/1861 for 3 years (and aboard the Gazelle in > the 1861 census) > James b1846 on the Gazelle 16/06/1860 for 6 years > William b1848 on the Hibernia 18/10/1865 for 3 years 6 months. > > What I don't have is concrete proof (if there is such a thing) that they are > his brothers. > > Please can anyone point me in the right direction for any further records > that may exist for these men? > > many thanks, Anne > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >

Hello Adi, Thank you so much for your helpful reply. I very much appreciate the details you’ve sent. With kind regards, Yvonne From: Mme_N_Carmichael [mailto:mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca] Sent: 04 September 2015 14:36 To: yvonne purdy; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] "Napier" of Newcastle Hello Yvonne, You'll find her listed as #41 under the "N" in the 1843 Lloyd's Register of Shipping here: http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html To decode the information in the columns, you'll need to use the keys at the front of the volume. (ooops! - that particular volume is missing some of the keys pages - no matter - just take a look at the front of the 1844 volume). In brief she was 141 ton schooner, built 1841 Stockton, trading Newcastle <-> Mediterranean. Offlist, I will send you another newspaper snippet which will show why it took so long for the news of her loss to be reported. Regards, Adi

Hello again, Yvonne,  A similarly-named vessel, the SIR CHARLES NAPIER, contemporary with your NAPIER, also had a master named Johnson at that time. I mention it lest it cause you confusion. Regards,Adi   From: yvonne purdy via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 5:30 AM Subject: [MAR] "Napier" of Newcastle ....I'm hoping that someone can please help with any details on the "Napier", such as what type of vessel, possible cargoes etc.  I've been looking into the family of Benjamin Johnson, and found this:  ...

Hello Yvonne, You'll find her listed as #41 under the "N" in the 1843 Lloyd's Register of Shipping here:http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html To decode the information in the columns, you'll need to use the keys at the front of the volume. (ooops! - that particular volume is missing some of the keys pages - no matter - just take a look at the front of the 1844 volume). In brief she was 141 ton schooner, built 1841 Stockton, trading Newcastle <-> Mediterranean. Offlist, I will send you another newspaper snippet which will show why it took so long for the news of her loss to be reported. Regards,Adi From: yvonne purdy via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 5:30 AM Subject: [MAR] "Napier" of Newcastle Dear all, I'm hoping that someone can please help with any details on the "Napier", such as what type of vessel, possible cargoes etc.  I've been looking into the family of Benjamin Johnson, and found this:   Newcastle Courant of 21 February 1845: At sea, on the coast of Spain, by the shipwreck of the Napier, of this port, on the 7th November, Henry & William Johnson, master & mate of that vessel, sons of Benjamin Johnson, Esq., late of this town.  William (Wood) Johnson was born on 8 October 1821 and baptised at Bywell, Northumberland on 30 October 1823. Kind regards, Yvonne Purdy

Aware that this is the Mariners list , in the 1861 census Emanuel b 1855 Southwick , Sussex , is living in New Shoreham with his parents Mathew and Ellen, his uncle John Downer, and brother William , Henry and sister Mary Ann. 10 years earlier Mathew and Ellen have John, James , William and Henry . -----Original Message----- From: Anne Capewell via Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 11:30 PM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Testers from Shoreham Hi all, I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. So far: Ocean Queen Apprenticed 5/11/1872 - 3 years Shoreham Wave Queen Day Star 11/11/1876 - 16/12/1876 Queen Plymouth Shamrock 13/01/1880 Southampton - 15/03/1880 South Shields Shamrock 16/03/1880 South Shields - 23/03/1880 South Shields (why just a week??) Targus Hark Away 01/07/1884 - 31/12/1884 - remained at end of voyage The apprenticeship record is from Ancestry and the remainder from West Sussex Records Office. As you can see there are gaps and nothing from 1885 to his death. He was a labourer in 1881, a 'mariner' in 1891, wasn't at home in 1901 and a 'ship's cook' in 1911. I may also have found apprenticeship records for 3 of his brothers - John b1844 on the Gazelle 17/03/1861 for 3 years (and aboard the Gazelle in the 1861 census) James b1846 on the Gazelle 16/06/1860 for 6 years William b1848 on the Hibernia 18/10/1865 for 3 years 6 months. What I don't have is concrete proof (if there is such a thing) that they are his brothers. Please can anyone point me in the right direction for any further records that may exist for these men? many thanks, Anne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Dear all, I'm hoping that someone can please help with any details on the "Napier", such as what type of vessel, possible cargoes etc. I've been looking into the family of Benjamin Johnson, and found this: Newcastle Courant of 21 February 1845: At sea, on the coast of Spain, by the shipwreck of the Napier, of this port, on the 7th November, Henry & William Johnson, master & mate of that vessel, sons of Benjamin Johnson, Esq., late of this town. William (Wood) Johnson was born on 8 October 1821 and baptised at Bywell, Northumberland on 30 October 1823. Kind regards, Yvonne Purdy

Hi Anne Just to expand upon Adi's post... as she says it looks as if Emmanuel served on JOHN MILES for several years (at least 1915-17). If you get copies of the 1915 crew lists from the National archives (you only really need the earlier one) it will give you the date of the particular voyages. We know that before the earlier of those he was also on the JOHN MILES (as it is shown as his previous ship), so it is then a question of working back through the crew lists for that ship voyage by voyage until his previous ship becomes something different - and then get THAT agreement and work back from there. Success isn't guaranteed because if he took a long break between voyages, or signed on a foreign ship, or gave false details at any point (for example to disguise the fact that he had deserted somewhere along the way) then the chain will stretch and could be broken, but IN THEORY you might be able to follow his entire career back to the point you lost him. There may be other agreements in the NA (they have only indexed 1915 at that level of details), but the Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland have several crew agreements for the ship back to 1908: see https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=125659 - note that they don't seem to be aware of the 1915 ones in the NA so there may be others. The MHA can do some of the legwork for you and their research prices for looking for agreements are not exorbitant, though of course it all adds up. One can ask them to work back through the lists for you and only copy those agreements in which a Emmanuel appears (and obviously, to stop with the list on which he joins the ship). "The Ships and Mariners of Shoreham" by Henry Cheal Jr might be of interest - it is a bit frustrating as there is no index and original copies are expensive, but I think you can buy reprints at abebooks. I glanced at it just now but no names sprang out at me. Cheers Piers On 4 September 2015 at 01:44, Mme_N_Carmichael via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello Anne, > Erm ... The Mariners List concerns itself only with mariners. Whether any > of John (1844) or James (1846) or William (1848) were brothers to your > Emmanuel/Emanuel (1856?) is beyond the scope of this list. You will have to > establish that or not through general genealogy sources. > For researching mariners, I suggest that you "lurk" on this list for a > while and skim all the posts. You'll pick up many sources and tips that way. > That said, here are two bits: > 1) A John Tester born 1844, Shoreham, was cook and seaman on the DARE of > Portsmouth, ON (= Official Number) 35218, during the first 6 months of > 1866. He had previously been on the JOHN SHARP of Shoreham.Source: CLIP > Crew List Index > http://www.crewlist.org.uk/crew/crew.php?target=tester&searchtype=Exact&initial=&dob=&submit=+Search+ > 2) Your Emmanuel appears to have been on the JOHN MILES, ON 125659, for a > few years. He made two voyages on her as cook and steward in 1915.Source: > free online 1915 merchant navy crew lists > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/first-world-war/search-merchant-navy-1915-crew-lists/?utm_source=The+National+Archives&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5900568_July+2015+enewsletter&utm_content=1915+Crew+Lists > > > Regards,Adi > > > From: Anne Capewell via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > To: "mariners@rootsweb.com" <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:30 PM > Subject: [MAR] Testers from Shoreham > > Hi all, > > I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, > Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on > the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses > etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', > merchant navy connections. So far: > > Ocean Queen Apprenticed 5/11/1872 - 3 years Shoreham > Wave Queen > Day Star 11/11/1876 - 16/12/1876 > Queen Plymouth > Shamrock 13/01/1880 Southampton - 15/03/1880 South Shields > Shamrock 16/03/1880 South Shields - 23/03/1880 South Shields (why just a > week??) > Targus > Hark Away 01/07/1884 - 31/12/1884 - remained at end of voyage > > The apprenticeship record is from Ancestry and the remainder from West > Sussex Records Office. > > As you can see there are gaps and nothing from 1885 to his death. He was a > labourer in 1881, a 'mariner' in 1891, wasn't at home in 1901 and a 'ship's > cook' in 1911. > > I may also have found apprenticeship records for 3 of his brothers - > John b1844 on the Gazelle 17/03/1861 for 3 years (and aboard the Gazelle > in the 1861 census) > James b1846 on the Gazelle 16/06/1860 for 6 years > William b1848 on the Hibernia 18/10/1865 for 3 years 6 months. > > What I don't have is concrete proof (if there is such a thing) that they > are his brothers. > > Please can anyone point me in the right direction for any further records > that may exist for these men? > > many thanks, Anne > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message