Oh thank you so much! I did the free weekend Find My Past offered a couple weeks ago but I can pay a subscription for a month to check the deaths at sea. Can you please check all my 3rd GR GF's details with his certificate number? Name: William Reed Estimated Age: 45 Birth Date: 6 Jul 1806 Issue Date: 1 Jan 1851 Issue Port: London Certificate Number: 46.200 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 1:09 am Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hello again Kathleen, Ah - so much easier with the Certificate Number. Yes, he was on RINGDOVE. Yes, he died in Calcutta 12 August 1863. He was certified as Mate in London on 27 January 1851. He also held Pilotage Certificate #354,359. The source for this information is The National Archives file BT 124/21 which is a free download of 2 pdf's. You'll find him in pdf 1, image #236 of 328, bottom of the page. You'll get some other vessel names there for him. In 1857 and 1859 he was captain on RINGDOVE (which coincidentally had ON 1857). In 1860, he appears to have been mate on the SIR ALLAN MACNAB of Liverpool, ON 32,465 and also in 1861. In 1862, he was mate on the AFRICA of Liverpool, ON 16,213. At least that is how I decipher the scrawls. Is it possible that after he was arrested in that 1858 court case that his Master's certificate was suspended? FindMyPast has the "Deaths at Sea" files from TNA. Have you looked there? Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hi Adi, Name John Nutman Estimated Age 29 Birth Date 11 Apr 1828 Birth Place Liverpool, Lancashire Issue Date 27 Jan 1857 Issue Port London Certificate Number 64.716 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number. What is it please? He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here: http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen

You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number.What is it please?  He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here:http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards,Adi   From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are thesame as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you foundthat mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle.His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales,which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856)that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen

Hi Adi, Name John Nutman Estimated Age 29 Birth Date 11 Apr 1828 Birth Place Liverpool, Lancashire Issue Date 27 Jan 1857 Issue Port London Certificate Number 64.716 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number. What is it please? He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here: http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen

Hello Kathleen, There is no date visible on your Dallas Herald clipping about runaway slaves. I am sending you another clipping offlist from March 1858 about Captain John Nutman, master of RINGDOVE, which was in Calcutta ~January 1858. However it appears dubious that this is indeed *your* John Nutman as he is described as being "half an American" which doesn't fit your description of his parentage. Nutman appears in American Lloyds volumes for 1859,1861 and 1862 (always on RINGDOVE) at the Mystic Seaport site here:http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/MSearchIndex.cfm I believe that those merchant navy microfilms at familysearch.org are the same files that are on FindMyPast. It would seem that the head honchos at familysearch.org think that the word "navy" automatically means "military" as they are indexed under "Military Service" (smile). Regards,Adi   From: mktgmaven2001 via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Here is additional information, what I know so far, and some leads I could pursue if you think they would provide good additional validation/info. Can anyone tell me what kind of information is available on these types of Merchant sea records or if there is another source (online) for this material? Trying to decide if I should order these films for viewing at the local Family history center. UNITED KINGDOM, MERCHANT NAVY SEAMEN RECORDS, 1835-1941 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC39-KK3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC3C-KGR I found the below on Ancestry and believe this to be John Nutman Jr. but need to verify and have seen a shipping news article where the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1857. Could not find anything saying the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1863. Also want to find out more about the circumstances of his death.   There are records on Ancestry of a John Nutman beginning in 1851 until before his death, that was in and out of lunatic asylums in Lancashire. So I think this may be him. His wife, Anne Nutman (maiden Morgan), my 4th GR GM died in Liverpool in 1858. Their son, John Nutman, likely died in Aug 1863. Their daughter, Elizabeth Butler (Nutman) Stinson was a widow. Her husband William Frederick Stinson died at sea, a first mate on the Ship Michigan, which sunk. She had a young son and had moved to Maine in the US to marry her brother-in-law, a Sea Captain named John Huston Stinson. I have not found evidence they had additional children. So by the time he died, John Nutman Sr. may have been alone in this world, maybe with depression and/or dementia. This is the marriage record of John Nutman and Ann Cornish (Cornish was her first husband, my 4th GR GF and also a Mariner) in South Shields in 1821 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNVQ-DVW Findmypast had a free weekend a couple of weekends ago and I found the baptismal records for Elizabeth (1823) and John Jr. (1828) with parents Anne and John Nutman, Mariner in Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Ann Morgan was born in Wales, though I have not found her birth record and do not know her parent's names so not sure where in Wales. Records I have seen for John Nutman Sr. say he was born in England. Just trying to piece together their story and verify these are my people. You're the Mariner experts so... Thanks very much, Kathleen

Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 4:20 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Hello Kathleen, There is no date visible on your Dallas Herald clipping about runaway slaves. I am sending you another clipping offlist from March 1858 about Captain John Nutman, master of RINGDOVE, which was in Calcutta ~January 1858. However it appears dubious that this is indeed *your* John Nutman as he is described as being "half an American" which doesn't fit your description of his parentage. Nutman appears in American Lloyds volumes for 1859,1861 and 1862 (always on RINGDOVE) at the Mystic Seaport site here: http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/MSearchIndex.cfm I believe that those merchant navy microfilms at familysearch.org are the same files that are on FindMyPast. It would seem that the head honchos at familysearch.org think that the word "navy" automatically means "military" as they are indexed under "Military Service" (smile). Regards, Adi From: mktgmaven2001 via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Here is additional information, what I know so far, and some leads I could pursue if you think they would provide good additional validation/info. Can anyone tell me what kind of information is available on these types of Merchant sea records or if there is another source (online) for this material? Trying to decide if I should order these films for viewing at the local Family history center. UNITED KINGDOM, MERCHANT NAVY SEAMEN RECORDS, 1835-1941 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC39-KK3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC3C-KGR I found the below on Ancestry and believe this to be John Nutman Jr. but need to verify and have seen a shipping news article where the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1857. Could not find anything saying the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1863. Also want to find out more about the circumstances of his death. There are records on Ancestry of a John Nutman beginning in 1851 until before his death, that was in and out of lunatic asylums in Lancashire. So I think this may be him. His wife, Anne Nutman (maiden Morgan), my 4th GR GM died in Liverpool in 1858. Their son, John Nutman, likely died in Aug 1863. Their daughter, Elizabeth Butler (Nutman) Stinson was a widow. Her husband William Frederick Stinson died at sea, a first mate on the Ship Michigan, which sunk. She had a young son and had moved to Maine in the US to marry her brother-in-law, a Sea Captain named John Huston Stinson. I have not found evidence they had additional children. So by the time he died, John Nutman Sr. may have been alone in this world, maybe with depression and/or dementia. This is the marriage record of John Nutman and Ann Cornish (Cornish was her first husband, my 4th GR GF and also a Mariner) in South Shields in 1821 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNVQ-DVW Findmypast had a free weekend a couple of weekends ago and I found the baptismal records for Elizabeth (1823) and John Jr. (1828) with parents Anne and John Nutman, Mariner in Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Ann Morgan was born in Wales, though I have not found her birth record and do not know her parent's names so not sure where in Wales. Records I have seen for John Nutman Sr. say he was born in England. Just trying to piece together their story and verify these are my people. You're the Mariner experts so... Thanks very much, Kathleen

Here is additional information, what I know so far, and some leads I could pursue if you think they would provide good additional validation/info. Can anyone tell me what kind of information is available on these types of Merchant sea records or if there is another source (online) for this material? Trying to decide if I should order these films for viewing at the local Family history center. UNITED KINGDOM, MERCHANT NAVY SEAMEN RECORDS, 1835-1941 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC39-KK3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC3C-KGR I found the below on Ancestry and believe this to be John Nutman Jr. but need to verify and have seen a shipping news article where the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1857. Could not find anything saying the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1863. Also want to find out more about the circumstances of his death. Name: John Nutman Gender: Male Age: 35 Birth Date: 1828 Death Date: 12 Aug 1863 Burial Date: 12 Aug 1863 Burial Place: Calcutta, Bengal, India FHL Film Number: 499011 I believe this is where John Nutman Sr. is buried http://www.toxtethparkcemetery.co.uk/dbase/toxsearch.php Surname Forename Age Rank Address Buried Folio Entry C/N Section Grave Class NUTMAN John 74 years Mariner Workhouse 22 December 1863 893 17847 C R 509 352 CEM 9/1/4 There are records on Ancestry of a John Nutman beginning in 1851 until before his death, that was in and out of lunatic asylums in Lancashire. So I think this may be him. His wife, Anne Nutman (maiden Morgan), my 4th GR GM died in Liverpool in 1858. Their son, John Nutman, likely died in Aug 1863. Their daughter, Elizabeth Butler (Nutman) Stinson was a widow. Her husband William Frederick Stinson died at sea, a first mate on the Ship Michigan, which sunk. She had a young son and had moved to Maine in the US to marry her brother-in-law, a Sea Captain named John Huston Stinson. I have not found evidence they had additional children. So by the time he died, John Nutman Sr. may have been alone in this world, maybe with depression and/or dementia. This is the marriage record of John Nutman and Ann Cornish (Cornish was her first husband, my 4th GR GF and also a Mariner) in South Shields in 1821 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNVQ-DVW Findmypast had a free weekend a couple of weekends ago and I found the baptismal records for Elizabeth (1823) and John Jr. (1828) with parents Anne and John Nutman, Mariner in Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Ann Morgan was born in Wales, though I have not found her birth record and do not know her parent's names so not sure where in Wales. Records I have seen for John Nutman Sr. say he was born in England. Just trying to piece together their story and verify these are my people. You're the Mariner experts so... Thanks very much, Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: mariners-request <mariners-request@rootsweb.com> To: mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 10, 2015 12:04 am Subject: MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Today's Topics: 1. John Nutman (senior and junior) and the Ringdove (mktgmaven2001@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015 01:15:03 -0400 From: mktgmaven2001@aol.com Subject: [MAR] John Nutman (senior and junior) and the Ringdove To: mariners@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <150502c7877-12cb-363bc@webprd-m11.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 My 4th Great Grandmother's second husband was John Nutman, a Mariner. They had a son, also John Nutman born in April, 1828. John Sr., my GM Anne, and their daughter Elizabeth Nutman are listed in the 1841 census in Liverpool. I found John Nutman Junior's Masters & Mates certificate on Ancestry.com and he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) schooner The Volunteer as one of the ships he worked on. I did not find a M&M certificate for John Nutman Sr. Anything more you can tell me about either of these John Nutman's is greatly appreciated. I found this article about a Captain John Nutman of a barque called the Ringdove but I have not been able to find out more about this John Nutman and if he is either of the two above http://digital.sfasu.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/RSP/id/5406/rec/21 Thanks very much, Kathleen ------------------------------ To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to MARINERS@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 *****************************************

My 4th Great Grandmother's second husband was John Nutman, a Mariner. They had a son, also John Nutman born in April, 1828. John Sr., my GM Anne, and their daughter Elizabeth Nutman are listed in the 1841 census in Liverpool. I found John Nutman Junior's Masters & Mates certificate on Ancestry.com and he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) schooner The Volunteer as one of the ships he worked on. I did not find a M&M certificate for John Nutman Sr. Anything more you can tell me about either of these John Nutman's is greatly appreciated. I found this article about a Captain John Nutman of a barque called the Ringdove but I have not been able to find out more about this John Nutman and if he is either of the two above http://digital.sfasu.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/RSP/id/5406/rec/21 Thanks very much, Kathleen

Thanks Adi I couldn't agree more, you appreciate something far more if you have to work hard for it It sounds like you were very lucky in your case I have been dragged away from my search by other things but hope to resume next week Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 06/10/2015 18:20, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > Hello Nivard, > > Clare is quite right: The National Archives would be the first > repository in which to hunt for any crew list. But ... they do turn up > in other places - County Records Offices, public libraries, personal > papers of rich ship-owning families, archives of shipping lines, local > histories etc. etc. Still, the first step of the process is to establish > the Port of Registry. > > For an 1802 voyage of one of my mariners, I got spectacularly lucky. The > coastal collier ANN was owned by the coal merchants Michael Henley and > Sons of Wapping, a firm which apparently never, Ever, EVER threw out > even one single scrap of paper. NMM at Greenwich has the salvage file > for that wreck which gave me the names of every man aboard, his ranking, > his wage, what he ate and even from which shops the provisions were > bought - more information than an official crew list would have given > me. "Nil Desperandum Auspice Deo". If we'd wanted an easy hobby, we > could have taken up needlepoint. > > Regards, > Adi

Hello Nivard, Clare is quite right: The National Archives would be the first repository in which to hunt for any crew list. But ... they do turn up in other places - County Records Offices, public libraries, personal papers of rich ship-owning families, archives of shipping lines, local histories etc. etc. Still, the first step of the process is to establish the Port of Registry. For an 1802 voyage of one of my mariners, I got spectacularly lucky. The coastal collier ANN was owned by the coal merchants Michael Henley and Sons of Wapping, a firm which apparently never, Ever, EVER threw out even one single scrap of paper. NMM at Greenwich has the salvage file for that wreck which gave me the names of every man aboard, his ranking, his wage, what he ate and even from which shops the provisions were bought - more information than an official crew list would have given me. "Nil Desperandum Auspice Deo". If we'd wanted an easy hobby, we could have taken up needlepoint. Regards,Adi From: Nivard Ovington via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: clare@ladysteps.co.uk; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] George WEBSTER 1730 to 1795 master mariner   Hi Clare Thanks for that, sadly they are to late for my man who died in 1795 I have been looking into BT98 but again they are not digitised so require a visit to Kew If I can get enough information together I may try a visit at some point, as my daughter lives fairly close Thanks again for your input Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi Discovery National Archives has the service record of John Gunn Robins, born 1804 , appt Lt 1829 . Both items are downloadable for £3.30 each . I didn`t find them on Findmypast as a partner organisation. -----Original Message----- From: David Asprey via Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 2:13 PM To: Paul Benyon ; mariners@rootsweb.com Cc: SHIPS LIST Mailing List ; MARINERS Mailing List Subject: Re: [MAR] Act of Bravery - John Gunn Robins That book's a superb find, Paul. Full pdf at https://archive.org/download/actsgallantrybe00youngoog/actsgallantrybe00youngoog.pdf David On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Paul Benyon via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi Pam > > Long time no speak ! > > If I'm not mistaken it looks to me as though you have 2 Acts of > Bravery for young Mr. Robins - see : > > > https://archive.org/stream/actsgallantrybe00youngoog/actsgallantrybe00youngoog_djvu.txt > > Not that unusual in those days, when men were issued with a quarter to > half a pint of rum each day i.e circa 1824-5 it was reduced from a > half pint to a quarter pint ; I've come across other instances where > it has been noted that officers and men have performed very similar > acts when the cry of man overboard was heard : cause can be from > falling from aloft, or as in one of the cases here, where rum may have > been the cause ? > > Looks to me as though they've been published by the Royal Humane > Society's (RHS) Medals, an organisation which has been around since > about 1774 ; so both the Herald and Genoa look right. One event > taking place in the Hamoaze i.e. in Plymouth / Devonport Harbour, > where the River Tamar enters the sea in Plymouth Sound, and can have a > wicked current when the tide was in full flow, and the other in the > English Channel. > > BTW the measure for rum was halved again in 1851, which in my > experience with still too much ;-) and I have to say that whilst there > was a tinge of sadness when I saw the tradition disappear in Jul 1970, > in practical terms I was glad to see the end of it i.e. the cause of a > number of deaths over the years, some by over imbibing at the time, > say on a birthday, or in the long term when some men began to suffer > from DTs etc., and in addition more breaches of discipline than > anything else I know, and I suspect that the numbers of personnel > appearing in front of the Captain declined accordingly, but I'm > running off topic yet again...... > > Regards > > Paul > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:11:24 +1000, PMR via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > >Greetings Listers > > > > > > > > I've come across the article below commending Midshipman John > >Gunn ROBINS, my ggf's brother, for an Act of Bravery. > > > > > > > > However I have a couple of confusions! In the first paragraph > >the date is 22nd May 1825; however in the attached Certificate the date > >is > >December 1823. Either date would fit as John enlisted in the Royal Navy > >on > >23 April 1823. > > > > > > > > The other confusion - was John on the HMS Herald or the HMS > >Genoa (reference to 'that ship' is a bit ambiguous to me)? It could only > be > >the Herald if the date is 1825 as it was renamed in 1824 (that's if I've > got > >it right!). I have John's appointments from 1829 but not in his early RN > >years. > > > >J G Robins, Midshipman > > > >On the 22nd May 1825, as His Majesty's ship "Herald" was sailing up > channel, > >the usual thrilling cry was heard, "A man overboard!" Mr J G Robins was > then > >on the quarter-deck, and judging from the rate the ship was going through > >the water, that the man would rise near the stem, he threw himself into > the > >sea, but had scarcely risen to the surface, when he found himself grasped > by > >the drowning man, with an energy which nearly proved destructive to both. > Mr > >Robins, however, succeeded in extricating himself sufficiently to support > >the man in the water; and after much labour and difficulty, as his > companion > >could not swim, reached the life-buoy, to which they both clung until a > boat > >was sent to their assistance. > > > >The annexed certificate is highly creditable to Mr Robins. > > > >These are to certify, that, in the month of December 1823, Samuel > Redwood, a > >gunner in the 1st company of the Royal Marine Artillery, then serving on > >board His Majesty's ship "Genoa" fell overboard in Plymouth harbour in > >the > >night, and was saved from drowning by Mr John Gunn Robins, a Midshipman > >of > >that ship, who in the most prompt and humane manner instantly plunged > >into > >the water, with his clothes on; and with much difficulty and at the risk > of > >his own life, succeeded in supporting Redwood (who was in a state of > >intoxication, and could not swim) until a boat was sent to his > >assistance. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate some clarification on these points from > >someone much more au fait with the RN than I am. > > > > > > > > Many thanks. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia > > > > > > > > > >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

That book's a superb find, Paul. Full pdf at https://archive.org/download/actsgallantrybe00youngoog/actsgallantrybe00youngoog.pdf David On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Paul Benyon via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi Pam > > Long time no speak ! > > If I'm not mistaken it looks to me as though you have 2 Acts of > Bravery for young Mr. Robins - see : > > > https://archive.org/stream/actsgallantrybe00youngoog/actsgallantrybe00youngoog_djvu.txt > > Not that unusual in those days, when men were issued with a quarter to > half a pint of rum each day i.e circa 1824-5 it was reduced from a > half pint to a quarter pint ; I've come across other instances where > it has been noted that officers and men have performed very similar > acts when the cry of man overboard was heard : cause can be from > falling from aloft, or as in one of the cases here, where rum may have > been the cause ? > > Looks to me as though they've been published by the Royal Humane > Society's (RHS) Medals, an organisation which has been around since > about 1774 ; so both the Herald and Genoa look right. One event > taking place in the Hamoaze i.e. in Plymouth / Devonport Harbour, > where the River Tamar enters the sea in Plymouth Sound, and can have a > wicked current when the tide was in full flow, and the other in the > English Channel. > > BTW the measure for rum was halved again in 1851, which in my > experience with still too much ;-) and I have to say that whilst there > was a tinge of sadness when I saw the tradition disappear in Jul 1970, > in practical terms I was glad to see the end of it i.e. the cause of a > number of deaths over the years, some by over imbibing at the time, > say on a birthday, or in the long term when some men began to suffer > from DTs etc., and in addition more breaches of discipline than > anything else I know, and I suspect that the numbers of personnel > appearing in front of the Captain declined accordingly, but I'm > running off topic yet again...... > > Regards > > Paul > > On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:11:24 +1000, PMR via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > >Greetings Listers > > > > > > > > I've come across the article below commending Midshipman John > >Gunn ROBINS, my ggf's brother, for an Act of Bravery. > > > > > > > > However I have a couple of confusions! In the first paragraph > >the date is 22nd May 1825; however in the attached Certificate the date is > >December 1823. Either date would fit as John enlisted in the Royal Navy on > >23 April 1823. > > > > > > > > The other confusion - was John on the HMS Herald or the HMS > >Genoa (reference to 'that ship' is a bit ambiguous to me)? It could only > be > >the Herald if the date is 1825 as it was renamed in 1824 (that's if I've > got > >it right!). I have John's appointments from 1829 but not in his early RN > >years. > > > >J G Robins, Midshipman > > > >On the 22nd May 1825, as His Majesty's ship "Herald" was sailing up > channel, > >the usual thrilling cry was heard, "A man overboard!" Mr J G Robins was > then > >on the quarter-deck, and judging from the rate the ship was going through > >the water, that the man would rise near the stem, he threw himself into > the > >sea, but had scarcely risen to the surface, when he found himself grasped > by > >the drowning man, with an energy which nearly proved destructive to both. > Mr > >Robins, however, succeeded in extricating himself sufficiently to support > >the man in the water; and after much labour and difficulty, as his > companion > >could not swim, reached the life-buoy, to which they both clung until a > boat > >was sent to their assistance. > > > >The annexed certificate is highly creditable to Mr Robins. > > > >These are to certify, that, in the month of December 1823, Samuel > Redwood, a > >gunner in the 1st company of the Royal Marine Artillery, then serving on > >board His Majesty's ship "Genoa" fell overboard in Plymouth harbour in the > >night, and was saved from drowning by Mr John Gunn Robins, a Midshipman of > >that ship, who in the most prompt and humane manner instantly plunged into > >the water, with his clothes on; and with much difficulty and at the risk > of > >his own life, succeeded in supporting Redwood (who was in a state of > >intoxication, and could not swim) until a boat was sent to his assistance. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate some clarification on these points from > >someone much more au fait with the RN than I am. > > > > > > > > Many thanks. > > > > > > > > Pam > > > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia > > > > > > > > > >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Pam Long time no speak ! If I'm not mistaken it looks to me as though you have 2 Acts of Bravery for young Mr. Robins - see : https://archive.org/stream/actsgallantrybe00youngoog/actsgallantrybe00youngoog_djvu.txt Not that unusual in those days, when men were issued with a quarter to half a pint of rum each day i.e circa 1824-5 it was reduced from a half pint to a quarter pint ; I've come across other instances where it has been noted that officers and men have performed very similar acts when the cry of man overboard was heard : cause can be from falling from aloft, or as in one of the cases here, where rum may have been the cause ? Looks to me as though they've been published by the Royal Humane Society's (RHS) Medals, an organisation which has been around since about 1774 ; so both the Herald and Genoa look right. One event taking place in the Hamoaze i.e. in Plymouth / Devonport Harbour, where the River Tamar enters the sea in Plymouth Sound, and can have a wicked current when the tide was in full flow, and the other in the English Channel. BTW the measure for rum was halved again in 1851, which in my experience with still too much ;-) and I have to say that whilst there was a tinge of sadness when I saw the tradition disappear in Jul 1970, in practical terms I was glad to see the end of it i.e. the cause of a number of deaths over the years, some by over imbibing at the time, say on a birthday, or in the long term when some men began to suffer from DTs etc., and in addition more breaches of discipline than anything else I know, and I suspect that the numbers of personnel appearing in front of the Captain declined accordingly, but I'm running off topic yet again...... Regards Paul On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:11:24 +1000, PMR via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Greetings Listers > > > > I've come across the article below commending Midshipman John >Gunn ROBINS, my ggf's brother, for an Act of Bravery. > > > > However I have a couple of confusions! In the first paragraph >the date is 22nd May 1825; however in the attached Certificate the date is >December 1823. Either date would fit as John enlisted in the Royal Navy on >23 April 1823. > > > > The other confusion - was John on the HMS Herald or the HMS >Genoa (reference to 'that ship' is a bit ambiguous to me)? It could only be >the Herald if the date is 1825 as it was renamed in 1824 (that's if I've got >it right!). I have John's appointments from 1829 but not in his early RN >years. > >J G Robins, Midshipman > >On the 22nd May 1825, as His Majesty's ship "Herald" was sailing up channel, >the usual thrilling cry was heard, "A man overboard!" Mr J G Robins was then >on the quarter-deck, and judging from the rate the ship was going through >the water, that the man would rise near the stem, he threw himself into the >sea, but had scarcely risen to the surface, when he found himself grasped by >the drowning man, with an energy which nearly proved destructive to both. Mr >Robins, however, succeeded in extricating himself sufficiently to support >the man in the water; and after much labour and difficulty, as his companion >could not swim, reached the life-buoy, to which they both clung until a boat >was sent to their assistance. > >The annexed certificate is highly creditable to Mr Robins. > >These are to certify, that, in the month of December 1823, Samuel Redwood, a >gunner in the 1st company of the Royal Marine Artillery, then serving on >board His Majesty's ship "Genoa" fell overboard in Plymouth harbour in the >night, and was saved from drowning by Mr John Gunn Robins, a Midshipman of >that ship, who in the most prompt and humane manner instantly plunged into >the water, with his clothes on; and with much difficulty and at the risk of >his own life, succeeded in supporting Redwood (who was in a state of >intoxication, and could not swim) until a boat was sent to his assistance. > > > > I would appreciate some clarification on these points from >someone much more au fait with the RN than I am. > > > > Many thanks. > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia > > > > >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx >This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) htt//www.yac.mx > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Why not two separate events? On 22/4/1830 John Gunn Robins RN was presented with an honorary medallion by the Royal Humane Society *(The Morning Post* (London), Friday, April 16, 1830, p1) - copy attached to direct email. Could not find any more detail in the newspapers, but all the records of the RHS are at Greater london Archives http://www.royalhumanesociety.org.uk/html/research_request.html http://search.lma.gov.uk/scripts/mwimain.dll/144/LMA_OPAC/web_detail/REFD+LMA~2F4517?SESSIONSEARCH David On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:11 AM, PMR via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Greetings Listers > > > > I've come across the article below commending Midshipman John > Gunn ROBINS, my ggf's brother, for an Act of Bravery. > > > > However I have a couple of confusions! In the first paragraph > the date is 22nd May 1825; however in the attached Certificate the date is > December 1823. Either date would fit as John enlisted in the Royal Navy on > 23 April 1823. > > > > The other confusion - was John on the HMS Herald or the HMS > Genoa (reference to 'that ship' is a bit ambiguous to me)? It could only be > the Herald if the date is 1825 as it was renamed in 1824 (that's if I've > got > it right!). I have John's appointments from 1829 but not in his early RN > years. > > J G Robins, Midshipman > > On the 22nd May 1825, as His Majesty's ship "Herald" was sailing up > channel, > the usual thrilling cry was heard, "A man overboard!" Mr J G Robins was > then > on the quarter-deck, and judging from the rate the ship was going through > the water, that the man would rise near the stem, he threw himself into the > sea, but had scarcely risen to the surface, when he found himself grasped > by > the drowning man, with an energy which nearly proved destructive to both. > Mr > Robins, however, succeeded in extricating himself sufficiently to support > the man in the water; and after much labour and difficulty, as his > companion > could not swim, reached the life-buoy, to which they both clung until a > boat > was sent to their assistance. > > The annexed certificate is highly creditable to Mr Robins. > > These are to certify, that, in the month of December 1823, Samuel Redwood, > a > gunner in the 1st company of the Royal Marine Artillery, then serving on > board His Majesty's ship "Genoa" fell overboard in Plymouth harbour in the > night, and was saved from drowning by Mr John Gunn Robins, a Midshipman of > that ship, who in the most prompt and humane manner instantly plunged into > the water, with his clothes on; and with much difficulty and at the risk of > his own life, succeeded in supporting Redwood (who was in a state of > intoxication, and could not swim) until a boat was sent to his assistance. > > > > I would appreciate some clarification on these points from > someone much more au fait with the RN than I am. > > > > Many thanks. > > > > Pam > > Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia > > > > > This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) > http://www.yac.mx > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Greetings Listers I've come across the article below commending Midshipman John Gunn ROBINS, my ggf's brother, for an Act of Bravery. However I have a couple of confusions! In the first paragraph the date is 22nd May 1825; however in the attached Certificate the date is December 1823. Either date would fit as John enlisted in the Royal Navy on 23 April 1823. The other confusion - was John on the HMS Herald or the HMS Genoa (reference to 'that ship' is a bit ambiguous to me)? It could only be the Herald if the date is 1825 as it was renamed in 1824 (that's if I've got it right!). I have John's appointments from 1829 but not in his early RN years. J G Robins, Midshipman On the 22nd May 1825, as His Majesty's ship "Herald" was sailing up channel, the usual thrilling cry was heard, "A man overboard!" Mr J G Robins was then on the quarter-deck, and judging from the rate the ship was going through the water, that the man would rise near the stem, he threw himself into the sea, but had scarcely risen to the surface, when he found himself grasped by the drowning man, with an energy which nearly proved destructive to both. Mr Robins, however, succeeded in extricating himself sufficiently to support the man in the water; and after much labour and difficulty, as his companion could not swim, reached the life-buoy, to which they both clung until a boat was sent to their assistance. The annexed certificate is highly creditable to Mr Robins. These are to certify, that, in the month of December 1823, Samuel Redwood, a gunner in the 1st company of the Royal Marine Artillery, then serving on board His Majesty's ship "Genoa" fell overboard in Plymouth harbour in the night, and was saved from drowning by Mr John Gunn Robins, a Midshipman of that ship, who in the most prompt and humane manner instantly plunged into the water, with his clothes on; and with much difficulty and at the risk of his own life, succeeded in supporting Redwood (who was in a state of intoxication, and could not swim) until a boat was sent to his assistance. I would appreciate some clarification on these points from someone much more au fait with the RN than I am. Many thanks. Pam Beaudesert, Queensland, Australia This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner) http://www.yac.mx

Hi Macha Apologies I thought I had replied to your mail I do not like to move on backwards without due proof of the ones I have identified, so whilst I have some pencilled in I stopped short of going back that far I have already have to readjust as I now find some information which throws Georges marriage into doubt, or at least the one I thought it was As soon as I can find something concrete I will come back to you One thing I would say is that I have a distinct lack of Williams in my WEBSTER line, whether that is pertinent is to early to say Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/09/2015 00:35, Macha Miller wrote: > Hi Nivard and all - After all these years Nivard it looks like we have a > connection! > > I have Dorothy WEBSTER daughter of William WEBSTER. Unfortunately I don't > have a birth date. > She married Henry BROTTON 1704 at Skelton. They had children Margaret > b.1714, William, Dinah and George (all BROTTON of course). > > Cheers. Macha in NZ

Hi Clare Thanks for that, sadly they are to late for my man who died in 1795 I have been looking into BT98 but again they are not digitised so require a visit to Kew If I can get enough information together I may try a visit at some point, as my daughter lives fairly close Thanks again for your input Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 01/10/2015 17:13, clare@ladysteps.co.uk wrote: > The Crew Lists I have seen are at the National Archives, arranged in > year groups (say 1835-39) and then alphabetically. You get a large box > of documents to search through, not all the lists for a particular ship > are together but scattered through the box. The lists start in 1835 but > I don't know how far they extend. > > There are much earlier ones for 18th century for Tyneside also at TNA. > I recommend reading the book by Chris Watts (and his brother) on My > Ancestor was a Merchant Seaman; excellent on sources and advice. > > Clare Pilkington

The Crew Lists I have seen are at the National Archives, arranged in year groups (say 1835-39) and then alphabetically. You get a large box of documents to search through, not all the lists for a particular ship are together but scattered through the box. The lists start in 1835 but I don't know how far they extend. There are much earlier ones for 18th century for Tyneside also at TNA. I recommend reading the book by Chris Watts (and his brother) on My Ancestor was a Merchant Seaman; excellent on sources and advice. Clare Pilkington On Oct 1 2015, Nivard Ovington via wrote: Hi Adi Thank you, that logic (usually my forte) had escaped me on this occasion I will continue to delve into BT162 and see what I come up with Having done that where might I find crew lists? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/09/2015 23:52, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > Yes, Nivard, but ..... finding the Port(s) of Registry for MENTOR (1788) > and PALLAS (1789) is a step towards possibly finding crew lists > containing George Webster which may or may not confirm that he is "your" > George Webster. There were far fewer vessels afloat at that date and > both of those are fairly uncommon names so there shouldn't be too many > duplicates. Now, MARTHA, (1784-5) may be a more common name but knowing > where she's from may lead you to still more information e.g. in > histories of those ports, and, unless she was wrecked in 1785, she > should appear somewhere in the 1786 lists. With so little to go on, no > point in leaving any stone unturned. > > Regards, > Adi ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all, I am seeking information on the steam trawler GRETA,built 1899 by Irvine Shipbuilding & Engineering Co Ltd –Irvine [yard No. 8] 155 gross tons built for J. Leyman & Co.Ltd—Hull I believe it was sold to Swedish owners but i have no further information on this. Any assistance to complete the story of this vessel would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan South Australia. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi Adi Thank you, that logic (usually my forte) had escaped me on this occasion I will continue to delve into BT162 and see what I come up with Having done that where might I find crew lists? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/09/2015 23:52, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > Yes, Nivard, but ..... finding the Port(s) of Registry for MENTOR (1788) > and PALLAS (1789) is a step towards possibly finding crew lists > containing George Webster which may or may not confirm that he is "your" > George Webster. There were far fewer vessels afloat at that date and > both of those are fairly uncommon names so there shouldn't be too many > duplicates. Now, MARTHA, (1784-5) may be a more common name but knowing > where she's from may lead you to still more information e.g. in > histories of those ports, and, unless she was wrecked in 1785, she > should appear somewhere in the 1786 lists. With so little to go on, no > point in leaving any stone unturned. > > Regards, > Adi

Yes, Nivard, but ..... finding the Port(s) of Registry for MENTOR (1788) and PALLAS (1789) is a step towards possibly finding crew lists containing George Webster which may or may not confirm that he is "your" George Webster. There were far fewer vessels afloat at that date and both of those are fairly uncommon names so there shouldn't be too many duplicates. Now, MARTHA, (1784-5) may be a more common name but knowing where she's from may lead you to still more information e.g. in histories of those ports, and, unless she was wrecked in 1785, she should appear somewhere in the 1786 lists. With so little to go on, no point in leaving any stone unturned. Regards,Adi   From: Nivard Ovington <ovington.one@gmail.com> To: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca>; "mariners@rootsweb.com" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] George WEBSTER 1730 to 1795 master mariner Hi Adi Thanks for that I have downloaded and started to look through them but the earliest appears to cover 1786 My man appears to have been a master from 1761 to 1766, thereafter is a gap to 1784 thereafter he appears to be a crew rather than master Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)