Mariners, If I may be permitted a supplementary question please? Further to Colin's answer to my original question. According to Lloyds 1846/7 this vessel was a Snow of 452 Tons, owners Hutchinsons of Sunderland. If this is Henry CLASPER, the Master Mariner referred to, then he was of Sunderland. This begs the question: if Newton and Joseph CLASPER owned the vessel NEWTON, where did Newton CLASPER of Newcastle fit into the story and was Henry CLASPER from another family, possibly of Sunderland? Thank you for any more assists. Rod Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 563 1845 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [N] 421 [Nom:] [NEWTON.] [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Glasper , J. [Capitaine subséquent: blank] [Espèce:] Glt. [Tonnage:] 62 [L'année de construction:] 1838 [Port d'armement:] Newcastle. [Navigation soit habituelle soit de compétence:] Manche. and Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 817 1845-1846 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [W] 542 [Nom:] [WILLIAM]-&-JANE. [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Clasper, H. [Espèce:] Bk. [Tonnage:] 228 [L'année de construction:] 1837 [Port d'armement:] Sunderland. [Navigation habituelle:] Baltique. RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

Hello Colin, Really appreciate this background information. I realised after posting my query, that one was a GLASPER and one a CLASPER, the names are often crossed, but this clarifies just who they were. I shall now investigate further. Many thanks Rod At 11:55 06/04/2011, Colin Boyd wrote: >Rod, > Checking the 'Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships' by Dick Keys turned >up the following: >'NEWTON' >Schooner 63 tons 51.6' x 16.8' x 9.1' >Built 1838 at Newcastle upon Tyne by either John Elliott or Archer Irwin >OWNERS: 24.9.1838 Newton Clasper 48/64 & Joseph Clasper 16/64 both >Master Mariners of Newcastle. 7.1.1850 Joseph Clasper became sole owner >MASTERS: 26.7.1848 Joseph Clasper. 26.5.1849 Thomas Robinson. 17.9.1849 >Joseph Clasper >( Note the family are Clasper not Glasper and the H Clasper was >presumably brother Henry who was also a Master Mariner) >On 26 July 1852 on passage from Thurso to Sunderland with paving stones >struck rocks north of False Immanuel Head, Holy Island and sank in deep >water. > >Hope this helps >Cheers >Colin Boyd > > > > >Colin Boyd >Documentation Assistant >Collections and Exhibitions >Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums > >Tel: 0191 2772177 >Fax: 0191 2302614 >Email: colin.boyd@twmuseums.org.uk RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

Rod, Checking the 'Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships' by Dick Keys turned up the following: 'NEWTON' Schooner 63 tons 51.6' x 16.8' x 9.1' Built 1838 at Newcastle upon Tyne by either John Elliott or Archer Irwin OWNERS: 24.9.1838 Newton Clasper 48/64 & Joseph Clasper 16/64 both Master Mariners of Newcastle. 7.1.1850 Joseph Clasper became sole owner MASTERS: 26.7.1848 Joseph Clasper. 26.5.1849 Thomas Robinson. 17.9.1849 Joseph Clasper ( Note the family are Clasper not Glasper and the H Clasper was presumably brother Henry who was also a Master Mariner) On 26 July 1852 on passage from Thurso to Sunderland with paving stones struck rocks north of False Immanuel Head, Holy Island and sank in deep water. Hope this helps Cheers Colin Boyd Colin Boyd Documentation Assistant Collections and Exhibitions Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums Tel: 0191 2772177 Fax: 0191 2302614 Email: colin.boyd@twmuseums.org.uk R ead Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums' new blog, and get involved with our social media, games and digital projects here - http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/engage/ Leader of the North East Regional Museums Hub Our mission is to help people determine their place in the world and define their identities, so enhancing their self-respect and respect for others. Find out more at: www.twmuseums.org.uk 2009 North East Public Sector Organisation of the year. v.1TWAM From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Rod Clayburn Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:22 AM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] GLASPER Masters Mariners, Please could anyone point me to a any other references for Ships Masters: J. GLASPER or H.GLASPER as detailed in the REGISTRE INTEGRITAS entries shown below. They may be one and the same person! The 'G' surnames have not yet been indexed in the List of Masters and I am unable to place in census returns? Thank you for any assists. Rod Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 563 1845 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [N] 421 [Nom:] [NEWTON.] [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Glasper , J. [Capitaine subséquent: blank] [Espèce:] Glt. [Tonnage:] 62 [L'année de construction:] 1838 [Port d'armement:] Newcastle. [Navigation soit habituelle soit de compétence:] Manche. and Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 817 1845-1846 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [W] 542 [Nom:] [WILLIAM]-&-JANE. [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Clasper, H. [Espèce:] Bk. [Tonnage:] 228 [L'année de construction:] 1837 [Port d'armement:] Sunderland. [Navigation habituelle:] Baltique. RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify your IT department. All incoming and outgoing email are monitored for compliance with Tyne and Wear Museums email, Internet and security policy. This email has been swept by MIMEsweeper.

Can anyone give me any inforamtion on the Aurora which features in the LLoyds Maritime news of 6/1/1837 which refers to the Aurora and "Falcus" (who may be my John Thompson falcus), an earlier edition of 3/1/11837 also refers to the Aurora and "Folkers" (which may be a corruption of Falcus). I've only seen the index entries for these news John Thompson Falcus was (eventually) a Master Mariner and lived in Newcastle upon Tyne so the Aurora may be a Tyne based vessel Many thanks Mike Fairless

Hi Everyone, Does any one know where or if I can find out more about a family ( William and Joseph Weidner) who fished theThames around 1800. Did they have to be registered or licenced? On the census it does say fisherman as occupation. But some years they were away fishing. Is there a census that has the fishermen listed separately? Would there be any records that could help me better understand their conditions back then? Thanks, Jackie ------[ This message was sent using Vaxxine Webmail ]------ www.vaxxine.com - Niagara's Premier Internet Service Provider

Mariners, Please could anyone point me to a any other references for Ships Masters: J. GLASPER or H.GLASPER as detailed in the REGISTRE INTEGRITAS entries shown below. They may be one and the same person! The 'G' surnames have not yet been indexed in the List of Masters and I am unable to place in census returns? Thank you for any assists. Rod Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 563 1845 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [N] 421 [Nom:] [NEWTON.] [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Glasper , J. [Capitaine subséquent: blank] [Espèce:] Glt. [Tonnage:] 62 [L'année de construction:] 1838 [Port d'armement:] Newcastle. [Navigation soit habituelle soit de compétence:] Manche. and Title: Manuel de l'Assureur ou Vade-Mecum du Commerce Maritime. Par M. Auguste Morel, No. 5. - Dix-huitième Année, 1845, Paris, 817 1845-1846 REGISTRE INTEGRITAS. [Numéro d'ordre:] [W] 542 [Nom:] [WILLIAM]-&-JANE. [Classification:] 5 [Capitaine:] Clasper, H. [Espèce:] Bk. [Tonnage:] 228 [L'année de construction:] 1837 [Port d'armement:] Sunderland. [Navigation habituelle:] Baltique. RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

Whilst the index to marine news is as given http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/lloydslist/ I've started to scan the marine news from 1816 back to 1793 so far 1816 -1803 completed at http://www.1812privateers.org/Bibliography At 01:00 04/06/2011 -0600, you wrote: >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: William HILL - Master Mariner (Piers Smith-Cresswell) > 2. Tony Thompson (Tony Thompson) > 3. Trinity House Pilots (Rpelliott2@aol.com) > 4. Re: Bullard King and Co (Neville Rasmussen) > 5. Trinity House Pilots (AndyCAdams@aol.com) > 6. Gale Library Week access to historical newspapers (Rhonda Staskow) > 7. Re: Crossing the Line (Hwabz@aol.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 15:24:48 +0100 >From: "Piers Smith-Cresswell" <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> >Subject: Re: [MAR] William HILL - Master Mariner >To: "'Hughes, Lynden M'" <Lynden.Hughes@mottmac.com>, > <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <F47818B7D43342E395893B2C0D20A469@athlon> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Dear Lynden > >I can't see that anyone else has replied to you so will see if I can help. > >You are right that from the mid 19th century onwards, master mariners are >well documented and that before then it is rather more of a struggle - >though I haven't tried to research anyone from that time myself. > >The Mariners research guide >http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKMerchantNavyIndex.html suggests that prior to >1845, Masters and Mates should appear in the registers of seamen. >Therefore, that would seem to be a good place to start. From 1835 (by which >time he may of course have been dead) there may be crew agreements available >if you can find the names of any of his ships. > >Another possible source of information is the Times newspaper, which had >shipping pages for many years. Many local libraries in the UK, including >West Sussex libraries, subscribe to the Times archives 1785-1985 (which are >different to the archive of today's paper) and you should find that you can >access it from home using your library card number to log on: >http://tinyurl.com/3uxnq6a . > >A number of libraries (NOT West Sussex, as far as I can see) also subscribe >to Gale's 19th Century British newspapers collection. This can be excellent >for shipping information if you can get access via an institution which has >a subscription. > >Lloyd's List, which may be available in maritime museums and the like, is a >shipping newspaper with detailed movements of vessels, and news on >casualties. Unfortunately the index is by name of vessel, so you need to >know that to avoid having to read reams (though I see there is an online >index for news items at http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/lloydslist/ ). You >might try Lloyd's Register, a number of which have been scanned and are >online via http://maritimearchives.co.uk/Registers.aspx . I'm not sure that >I would rely absolutely on the name search - I found a number of Hills in >1825 but none in 1827, so I'd be inclined to suggest you should look through >a few years to see if you can find him. > >As to your second question, I think he could have been more or less the same >age as her, possibly only a year or two older. By the time that >examinations came in, rather after the time you're dealing with, it was >possible to find masters in their early twenties, having done three or four >years at sea and two and a half years in charge of a watch before they could >get their master's "ticket". If they'd gone to sea at 14, and been in more >or less continuous employment since, it would have been feasible for a 21 >year old to be a fully qualified master, though I would guesstimate that 23 >or so might be more the average. You are dealing with an earlier period, >without the bureaucratic requirements of set times at sea, so I would have >thought that it could in theory be possible for someone even younger to >become a master. > >You mentioned that you were not clear as to his date of death. Are you sure >this is not mentioned in the Grant of Probate - it usually is? > >Cheers >Piers > >-----Original Message----- >From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] >On Behalf Of Hughes, Lynden M >Sent: 01 April 2011 17:20 >To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MAR] William HILL - Master Mariner > > >Dear List, > >This is my first foray onto the list, and I am hoping that you will be able >to offer some advice to a novice maritime researcher. > >My ancestor, William Edmund (sometimes Edmond) HILL, claims to have been a >"Master Mariner" in the first half of the 19th Century. This appears on his >children's baptism entries and on his will. > >He seems to have died sometime between January 1832 (when his will was >written), and March 1840 (when his will was proved). > >I have two questions: > >Firstly, in general, where can I look to find more details? There appears >to be masses of records after 1845 / 1851, but very little before 1840, and >I am stuck as to where and how to start. > >Secondly, he married in 1821. His bride was aged 21 or 22. Given that he >was a "Master Mariner" in 1825 (on the register of his first child's birth), >is it likely that he was the same age, or is it more probable that he was >considerably older? As a rough guide, at what age would you expect to find >someone becoming a "Master"? > >Finally, if anyone has any specific knowledge of this Mariner, probably >sailing out of the docks of London, (his wife and children were resident in >the Commercial Road area of Ratcliff), I would be extremely pleased to hear >from you. > >Any thoughts or advice very gratefully received. > >Lynden Hughes >West Sussex, UK > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 16:48:44 +0100 >From: "Tony Thompson" <apttony@aol.com> >Subject: [MAR] Tony Thompson >To: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <004701cbf3a8$f26d5d60$d7481820$@com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I'm trying to find Tony Thompson who was a captain on Cosag Marine's MV >Bembridge in 1974 - 1975. His full name is Anthony William Ian Thompson. > >I'd like to hear from anybody who knows anything about him. > >Thanks > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 11:52:37 -0400 (EDT) >From: Rpelliott2@aol.com >Subject: [MAR] Trinity House Pilots >To: mariners-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <62c46.32c32321.3acc94c5@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Hello Listers > >This is probably a search too far - but I know there are experts amongst >you ! I am trying to find out who the pilot was onboard the Trinity House >yacht or cutter that accompanied the Royal Yacht ( Victoria and Albert >III ?) >into Immingham for the official opening of the docks by King George V on 22 >July 1912. >Would you know if Trinity House may have a record ? >Which newspaper would have reported the event ? >Any help very much appreciated. > >Best regards >Roy Elliott > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 18:22:49 +0200 >From: "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> >Subject: Re: [MAR] Bullard King and Co >To: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com>, "Ted Finch" > <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> >Message-ID: <D4A8FE0E672B4C8EBC7412F9BF721B62@homestudy> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > >Ted Hi! >Thanx for the info, I will definately follow up on those sites, however >since I posted the query I have been poking though a box of stuff from my >dad and came across an envelope that I had not touched for years and hey >presto out came his apprentiship contract, which was with Bullard King, but >he compeleted his time in a Union Castle ship (same company by then) the >Roxburgh Castle in 1938. The contract has survived well but then it was >printed on linen! > >I know that he was with BK ships on the Banana boats between India and East >Africa the Cape and the UK and then moved to Ellerman Line > >I have his watchkeeping certificate for the period from December 1939 to >June 1941 aboard the City of Worcester (Elleman , Hall Line), when he left >the MN to join the Navy for wartime service. > >What I don't have is where he served from May 1938 to December 1939 if this >time was still on the Roxburg or the City of Worcester. > >Neville > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ted Finch" <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> >To: "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> >Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:23 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Bullard King and Co > > > > Neville, > > > > There is an article on tracing apprentice records at the National Archives > > at http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKApprentices.html > > > > You can also find some info and fleet list of Bullard King at > > http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/bullard.html > > > > regards > > Ted > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> > > To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 9:26 AM > > Subject: [MAR] Bullard King and Co > > > > > >> > >> Greetings! > >> > >> My father was an apprentice with Bullard King upon his leaving the > >> General > >> Botha training ship. He served a three year apprentiship with them. > >> Anyone > >> kow if records of such apprentiships were kept and where I might find > >> this > >> information and also if the ships he served on during this period might > >> be > >> listed? > >> > >> Neville Rasmussen > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3545 - Release Date: 04/01/11 > > 18:36:00 > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:42:03 EDT >From: AndyCAdams@aol.com >Subject: [MAR] Trinity House Pilots >To: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <43e49.579a5cc2.3acce6ab@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Roy > >There would have been no Trinity House pilotage involvement in the visit. >The Trinity House vessel in question would have been the Trinity House buoy >yacht Irene. The Trinity yacht traditionally preceded the Royal Yacht and >still does today the most recent example being in 2005 when the Trinity >House vessel Patricia preceded HMS Endurance during the Trafalgar Fleet >Review. > >Normally and prior to the Pilotage Act 1987 Trinity House vessels did not >take pilots in areas where TH had responsibility for buoyage. Buoyage in >the Humber was the responsibility of the Humber Conservancy Board. However >it >would seem likely that Irene would have taken a Humber Pilot from the pilot > cutter at Spurn Point. > >There has been a number of changes in the way the Humber Pilots were >organised over the years and a recent reorganisation would have meant the >effective end of any pilotage records. > >Not sure about Lincolnshire newspapers. > >Hope this helps. > >Andy Adams > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 20:41:57 -0400 >From: Rhonda Staskow <rhonda.staskow@gmail.com> >Subject: [MAR] Gale Library Week access to historical newspapers >To: "MARINERS@rootsweb" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> >Message-ID: <BANLkTi=pvOmN79Z=E-+o-Mt7-GUR9wo+Pw@mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Hi Listers - > >It looks like Gale will offer their vast historical newspaper collection for >Library Week this year for a full two weeks Apr 10 to 24th. It appears that >you will have to register beginning Sunday, April 10th for access to the >site but it will have a number of UK newspapers and US newspapers available. > > >The information was posted at - > >http://usderesources.blogspot.com/2011/04/gale-celebrate-national-library-week.html > > >http://www.gale.cengage.com/NLW/ > >http://gdc.gale.com/products/gale-newsvault/ > >Kind regards, > >Rhonda > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 23:33:58 -0400 (EDT) >From: Hwabz@aol.com >Subject: Re: [MAR] Crossing the Line >To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com >Message-ID: <6ccdd.6f3b7fae.3acd3926@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >For those interested in the Equator ceremony, here's a first-hand report >of crossing the line from the diary of an Irish passenger en route from >Liverpool to Melbourne aboard the clipper ship Miles Barton commanded by >William Kelly in 1853. Apart from a passing "tongue-in-cheek" threat of >cannibalism on the second day, it all seems pretty civilized. Original >spellings, >punctuation, etc. retained. > > >Saturday 28th (May 1853) A good breeze and not quite so hot as it was a >fiew days since at 8 o'clock a tubful of burning tar was droped overboard to >deceive the passingers that it was lamps on the Equator or line when Nepkin >and his wife came on Board dressed in sheepskins after being drawn fore >and aft on a slide the(y) walked onto the quarter deck to the Capt and >shaked >hands with him asking him how he was Introducing himself as Nepkin the God >of the Sea Saying that he was came on board to pay him a visit and shave >all his children as he considered it his right and duty to do so on all the >ships that came his way. The Capt was very happy to see them and hoped he >would use them deacently as his children was all of a superior breed and >brot up at the boarding schools and that the(y) were nearly all English >but a >good many Scotch and the greater part of them Irish and for them to pay him >another visit on Monday Evg and bring with them a Silver Raisor and some of >her Majesties double refined scented soap that would raize her Majesties >softest leather. Shaking hands with each of them and bidding them good night >receiving in return a very low bow from Nepkin and a Courticy from his >Wife. >29th Sunday morn. Nepkin or the second mate was inclined to have one of >the seamen for breakfast this morning and was going to put in irons for >being >so carnivorious it is a beautiful day with a fair but a light breeze. >30th A fine day and all gowing on well we expected to be shaved but the >Capt would not allow it lest their should be anyone hurt. >Harold Bradley >Alamo, CA > >------------------------------ > >To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to >MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com. > >To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to >MARINERS@rootsweb.com. > >__________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com >with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body >of the >email with no additional text. > > >End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 107 >**************************************** Best wishes, Michael Dun BA M.Litt FSA Scot Latitude 56:47386 North Longitude -2:84576 West www.1812privateers.org

For those interested in the Equator ceremony, here's a first-hand report of crossing the line from the diary of an Irish passenger en route from Liverpool to Melbourne aboard the clipper ship Miles Barton commanded by William Kelly in 1853. Apart from a passing "tongue-in-cheek" threat of cannibalism on the second day, it all seems pretty civilized. Original spellings, punctuation, etc. retained. Saturday 28th (May 1853) A good breeze and not quite so hot as it was a fiew days since at 8 o'clock a tubful of burning tar was droped overboard to deceive the passingers that it was lamps on the Equator or line when Nepkin and his wife came on Board dressed in sheepskins after being drawn fore and aft on a slide the(y) walked onto the quarter deck to the Capt and shaked hands with him asking him how he was Introducing himself as Nepkin the God of the Sea Saying that he was came on board to pay him a visit and shave all his children as he considered it his right and duty to do so on all the ships that came his way. The Capt was very happy to see them and hoped he would use them deacently as his children was all of a superior breed and brot up at the boarding schools and that the(y) were nearly all English but a good many Scotch and the greater part of them Irish and for them to pay him another visit on Monday Evg and bring with them a Silver Raisor and some of her Majesties double refined scented soap that would raize her Majesties softest leather. Shaking hands with each of them and bidding them good night receiving in return a very low bow from Nepkin and a Courticy from his Wife. 29th Sunday morn. Nepkin or the second mate was inclined to have one of the seamen for breakfast this morning and was going to put in irons for being so carnivorious it is a beautiful day with a fair but a light breeze. 30th A fine day and all gowing on well we expected to be shaved but the Capt would not allow it lest their should be anyone hurt. Harold Bradley Alamo, CA

Hi Listers - It looks like Gale will offer their vast historical newspaper collection for Library Week this year for a full two weeks Apr 10 to 24th. It appears that you will have to register beginning Sunday, April 10th for access to the site but it will have a number of UK newspapers and US newspapers available. The information was posted at - http://usderesources.blogspot.com/2011/04/gale-celebrate-national-library-week.html http://www.gale.cengage.com/NLW/ http://gdc.gale.com/products/gale-newsvault/ Kind regards, Rhonda

Ted Hi! Thanx for the info, I will definately follow up on those sites, however since I posted the query I have been poking though a box of stuff from my dad and came across an envelope that I had not touched for years and hey presto out came his apprentiship contract, which was with Bullard King, but he compeleted his time in a Union Castle ship (same company by then) the Roxburgh Castle in 1938. The contract has survived well but then it was printed on linen! I know that he was with BK ships on the Banana boats between India and East Africa the Cape and the UK and then moved to Ellerman Line I have his watchkeeping certificate for the period from December 1939 to June 1941 aboard the City of Worcester (Elleman , Hall Line), when he left the MN to join the Navy for wartime service. What I don't have is where he served from May 1938 to December 1939 if this time was still on the Roxburg or the City of Worcester. Neville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Finch" <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> To: "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Bullard King and Co > Neville, > > There is an article on tracing apprentice records at the National Archives > at http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKApprentices.html > > You can also find some info and fleet list of Bullard King at > http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/bullard.html > > regards > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> > To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 9:26 AM > Subject: [MAR] Bullard King and Co > > >> >> Greetings! >> >> My father was an apprentice with Bullard King upon his leaving the >> General >> Botha training ship. He served a three year apprentiship with them. >> Anyone >> kow if records of such apprentiships were kept and where I might find >> this >> information and also if the ships he served on during this period might >> be >> listed? >> >> Neville Rasmussen >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3545 - Release Date: 04/01/11 > 18:36:00 > > >

Roy There would have been no Trinity House pilotage involvement in the visit. The Trinity House vessel in question would have been the Trinity House buoy yacht Irene. The Trinity yacht traditionally preceded the Royal Yacht and still does today the most recent example being in 2005 when the Trinity House vessel Patricia preceded HMS Endurance during the Trafalgar Fleet Review. Normally and prior to the Pilotage Act 1987 Trinity House vessels did not take pilots in areas where TH had responsibility for buoyage. Buoyage in the Humber was the responsibility of the Humber Conservancy Board. However it would seem likely that Irene would have taken a Humber Pilot from the pilot cutter at Spurn Point. There has been a number of changes in the way the Humber Pilots were organised over the years and a recent reorganisation would have meant the effective end of any pilotage records. Not sure about Lincolnshire newspapers. Hope this helps. Andy Adams

I'm trying to find Tony Thompson who was a captain on Cosag Marine's MV Bembridge in 1974 - 1975. His full name is Anthony William Ian Thompson. I'd like to hear from anybody who knows anything about him. Thanks

Dear Lynden I can't see that anyone else has replied to you so will see if I can help. You are right that from the mid 19th century onwards, master mariners are well documented and that before then it is rather more of a struggle - though I haven't tried to research anyone from that time myself. The Mariners research guide http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKMerchantNavyIndex.html suggests that prior to 1845, Masters and Mates should appear in the registers of seamen. Therefore, that would seem to be a good place to start. From 1835 (by which time he may of course have been dead) there may be crew agreements available if you can find the names of any of his ships. Another possible source of information is the Times newspaper, which had shipping pages for many years. Many local libraries in the UK, including West Sussex libraries, subscribe to the Times archives 1785-1985 (which are different to the archive of today's paper) and you should find that you can access it from home using your library card number to log on: http://tinyurl.com/3uxnq6a . A number of libraries (NOT West Sussex, as far as I can see) also subscribe to Gale's 19th Century British newspapers collection. This can be excellent for shipping information if you can get access via an institution which has a subscription. Lloyd's List, which may be available in maritime museums and the like, is a shipping newspaper with detailed movements of vessels, and news on casualties. Unfortunately the index is by name of vessel, so you need to know that to avoid having to read reams (though I see there is an online index for news items at http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/lloydslist/ ). You might try Lloyd's Register, a number of which have been scanned and are online via http://maritimearchives.co.uk/Registers.aspx . I'm not sure that I would rely absolutely on the name search - I found a number of Hills in 1825 but none in 1827, so I'd be inclined to suggest you should look through a few years to see if you can find him. As to your second question, I think he could have been more or less the same age as her, possibly only a year or two older. By the time that examinations came in, rather after the time you're dealing with, it was possible to find masters in their early twenties, having done three or four years at sea and two and a half years in charge of a watch before they could get their master's "ticket". If they'd gone to sea at 14, and been in more or less continuous employment since, it would have been feasible for a 21 year old to be a fully qualified master, though I would guesstimate that 23 or so might be more the average. You are dealing with an earlier period, without the bureaucratic requirements of set times at sea, so I would have thought that it could in theory be possible for someone even younger to become a master. You mentioned that you were not clear as to his date of death. Are you sure this is not mentioned in the Grant of Probate - it usually is? Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hughes, Lynden M Sent: 01 April 2011 17:20 To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] William HILL - Master Mariner Dear List, This is my first foray onto the list, and I am hoping that you will be able to offer some advice to a novice maritime researcher. My ancestor, William Edmund (sometimes Edmond) HILL, claims to have been a "Master Mariner" in the first half of the 19th Century. This appears on his children's baptism entries and on his will. He seems to have died sometime between January 1832 (when his will was written), and March 1840 (when his will was proved). I have two questions: Firstly, in general, where can I look to find more details? There appears to be masses of records after 1845 / 1851, but very little before 1840, and I am stuck as to where and how to start. Secondly, he married in 1821. His bride was aged 21 or 22. Given that he was a "Master Mariner" in 1825 (on the register of his first child's birth), is it likely that he was the same age, or is it more probable that he was considerably older? As a rough guide, at what age would you expect to find someone becoming a "Master"? Finally, if anyone has any specific knowledge of this Mariner, probably sailing out of the docks of London, (his wife and children were resident in the Commercial Road area of Ratcliff), I would be extremely pleased to hear from you. Any thoughts or advice very gratefully received. Lynden Hughes West Sussex, UK ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all, I'm hoping someone out there can help me with an enquiry about the loss of DARA (1948) in 1961. What I am after is a list of the 24 crew members who were lost during the explosion and subsequent fire. There is an issue of BI News from July 1961 which contains a memorial about her loss which may include all crew members. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of it. Thank you in advance for any help one of you may be able to provide! Kind Regards, Cori Convertito ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed if you have received this email in error please notify the System Manager This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. While DP World has taken reasonable precautions to minimise the risk of any attachment to this email containing viruses, we cannot accept liability for any damage which you sustain as a result of any such viruses. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening this document. DP World FZE is a company formed and registered in Dubai, UAE under number 00468. DP World FZE’s registered office and head office is at 5th Floor, LOB 17, Dubai, UAE. The DP World group includes The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company and its subsidiary companies. The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company was formed under Charter in 1840, is registered in England and Wales under number ZC73 and has its registered office at 16 Palace Street, London, SW1E 5JQ. **********************************************************************

Tim, Good to see these old photos, and your resultant enquiries, generating so much interest. I can't add anything factual, but I conjecture that the group of four people on the gallery, including the lady, appear to be in everyday clothing. Did the CARMANIAN carry passengers (can't see this confirmed in your M ightyseas write-up?)? If so, this is what I think that group is. Otherwise, might the lady be Capt Bunn's wife (although he looks an oddball character if your identification of him on your website is correct!)? Regarding the three people with the numbers I suspect the figures were not actually on their clothing but were added to the (glass plate) negative at a later stage, possibly for some purpose of identification. If you look at no. 46 in particular the clothing behind the numbers appears to be significantly creased - but no such indication that this affected the 46 - which looks as flat as a pancake!?? Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 05/04/2011 00:01, Tim Latham wrote: > Dear Listers, > > I have recently been sent a transcript of a diary of a crewman aboard > the Carmanian, a Workington sailing ship. The diary refers to "Neptune > coming aboard" on the 23rd March 1900, when the ship was bound from New > York (departed 18th February) for Hong Kong (arrived 9th July). > Coincidentally, a photograph of a "Crossing the Line" ceremony aboard > the Carmanian has been published by the Newcastle NSW Museum, but with > no date given. > > http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&QueryPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php > <http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&QueryPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php> > > I am trying to tie the diary to the photo. The sender of the diary has a > different photo of the Carmanian's crew at San Francisco in December > 1900, and clearly some people are in both photos. > > http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/gallery/wkton/carmanian_crew_1900.jpg > > What interests me is that three of the people in the "Crossing the Line" > photo have numbers drawn on their shirts, 44, 45 and 46. Could this be > the lines of Longitude where the Equator was crossed - 45 W, just off > the coast of Brazil ? This would make sense in terms of time and sailing > ship routes, and would mean that the photo could be tied to the diary. > Could any Mariners familar with the age old ritual confirm this is the > meaning of the numbers? Or provide explanations for other features in > the photo, such as the blackened faces, the objects being held, or why > some are in turbans. Or explain why, since the woman on the gallery is > clearly a woman, Mrs.Neptune is played by, judging by the moustache, a > sailor ? > > Best Wishes, > > Tim Latham > www.mightyseas.co.uk > > > Regards..........Len > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Listers This is probably a search too far - but I know there are experts amongst you ! I am trying to find out who the pilot was onboard the Trinity House yacht or cutter that accompanied the Royal Yacht ( Victoria and Albert III ?) into Immingham for the official opening of the docks by King George V on 22 July 1912. Would you know if Trinity House may have a record ? Which newspaper would have reported the event ? Any help very much appreciated. Best regards Roy Elliott

My Uncle was a seaman and served for a number of years on the Union Castle Line ships. On one of his visits he brought me a copy of the crossing the line certificate that the Union Castle ships issued to their passengers. He told of the ceremony that took place and how he was frequently asked to be a part as one of the "Officials" of the ceremony, he was a right royal comic and prankster and so the tasks suited him very well, usually being the one who would put the shaving cream on the faces of the initiates before King Neptune shaved it off with an enormous cut throat razor (made of wood so quite safe). I have kept the certificate now for for 60 years always hoping that I would be part of the ceremony one day but alas even though I went to sea for a time I never did cross the line in a ship, by plane several times but by ship sadly no. In the naval tradition I was officially allowed to put one elbow on the table for having crossed around the Cape of Good Hope but never got to put both elbows on the table for also having crossed Cape Horn. In another incident while at the Naval Colledge I did get to walk the plank for some misdemeanor and landed up in the harbour in full uniform! Neville on dry land in Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Constantine" <bconstantine@shaw.ca> To: "'Tim Latham'" <web@mightyseas.co.uk>; <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Crossing the Line in the Carmanian > Hi Tim... > > I do not have answers to your questions but you have raised a topic that > is > quite fascinating. There are many spell-binding tales of Crossing the > Equator Ceremonies. I suspect that planning the ceremony was a good way to > pass the time on long voyages and it was certainly a rite of passage for > travellers. > > You and the listers may enjoy visiting Google Images and doing a search on > 'Crossing the Equator Certificates". King Neptune and a captivating > collection of beautifully rendered, fanciful graphics await you. > > It was a grey, dreaky day on the West Coast of British Columbia, and I > would > far rather have been Crossing the Line to sunnier climes than > puddle-jumping > around here! > > Barbara in Vancouver > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Tim Latham > Sent: April 4, 2011 4:02 PM > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MAR] Crossing the Line in the Carmanian > > Dear Listers, > > I have recently been sent a transcript of a diary of a crewman aboard the > Carmanian, a Workington sailing ship. The diary refers to "Neptune coming > aboard" on the 23rd March 1900, when the ship was bound from New York > (departed 18th February) for Hong Kong (arrived 9th July). > Coincidentally, a photograph of a "Crossing the Line" ceremony aboard the > Carmanian has been published by the Newcastle NSW Museum, but with no date > given. > > http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Quer > yPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php > <http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Que > ryPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php> > > I am trying to tie the diary to the photo. The sender of the diary has a > different photo of the Carmanian's crew at San Francisco in December 1900, > and clearly some people are in both photos. > > http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/gallery/wkton/carmanian_crew_1900.jpg > > What interests me is that three of the people in the "Crossing the Line" > photo have numbers drawn on their shirts, 44, 45 and 46. Could this be the > lines of Longitude where the Equator was crossed - 45 W, just off the > coast > of Brazil ? This would make sense in terms of time and sailing ship > routes, > and would mean that the photo could be tied to the diary. > Could any Mariners familar with the age old ritual confirm this is the > meaning of the numbers? Or provide explanations for other features in the > photo, such as the blackened faces, the objects being held, or why some > are > in turbans. Or explain why, since the woman on the gallery is clearly a > woman, Mrs.Neptune is played by, judging by the moustache, a sailor ? > > Best Wishes, > > Tim Latham > www.mightyseas.co.uk > > > Regards..........Len > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Nice pictures. I like the fact that one of the apprentices in the group is holding the ship's cat for the photo! I see they've borrowed one of the lifebuoys from the poop deck - you can see there are two in the crossing the line picture, but in the group photo there's a gap where it should be. In my reading of various forms of this initiation ceremony Neptune's Queen, like a pantomime dame, always seems to be played by a man, usually one of the tallest and least feminine available. Even if a woman was available to play the part, one might guess that the rather robust horseplay meted out to the greenhorns (such as "shaving", dosing with noxious concoctions, ducking (and sometimes half-drowning), and painting or tarring) might appeal more to a man. Dressing up seems to have been de rigeur for all of Neptune's entourage, and with a shortage of suitable costumes, "blacking up" and putting on a funny hat and improvised whiskers would be the easiest way for an AB to transform himself into some strange sea-denizen. This was probably necessary in order to distance the perpetrator from his everyday persona and give him licence to do dreadful things without too many hard feelings afterwards. Perhaps there's a PhD in it.... I don't recall coming across any mention of numbers being significant, but your guess may well be right. I have to say that to my eye the numbered jackets look far too small for the people wearing them, and I fancy (this may just be an over-active imagination) that there's something slightly Chinese about them.... might they perhaps have been "liberated" from some stevedores in a Chinese port? In which case, the numbers might have already been painted on to identify the members of a work gang. The guys wearing them (plus a chap in a white shirt) seem to be Neptune's guards as all are armed (one with what looks like a home-made cutlass, and one with a belaying pin). I wonder whether the chap on the left is the bishop? All he'd need to find would be a dog-collar made from a bit of spare canvas..... -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Latham Sent: 05 April 2011 00:02 To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Crossing the Line in the Carmanian Dear Listers, I have recently been sent a transcript of a diary of a crewman aboard the Carmanian, a Workington sailing ship. The diary refers to "Neptune coming aboard" on the 23rd March 1900, when the ship was bound from New York (departed 18th February) for Hong Kong (arrived 9th July). Coincidentally, a photograph of a "Crossing the Line" ceremony aboard the Carmanian has been published by the Newcastle NSW Museum, but with no date given. http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Quer yPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php <http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Que ryPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php> I am trying to tie the diary to the photo. The sender of the diary has a different photo of the Carmanian's crew at San Francisco in December 1900, and clearly some people are in both photos. http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/gallery/wkton/carmanian_crew_1900.jpg What interests me is that three of the people in the "Crossing the Line" photo have numbers drawn on their shirts, 44, 45 and 46. Could this be the lines of Longitude where the Equator was crossed - 45 W, just off the coast of Brazil ? This would make sense in terms of time and sailing ship routes, and would mean that the photo could be tied to the diary. Could any Mariners familar with the age old ritual confirm this is the meaning of the numbers? Or provide explanations for other features in the photo, such as the blackened faces, the objects being held, or why some are in turbans. Or explain why, since the woman on the gallery is clearly a woman, Mrs.Neptune is played by, judging by the moustache, a sailor ? Best Wishes, Tim Latham www.mightyseas.co.uk Regards..........Len ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Alas the 'ceremony' for crossing the line and going into the Arctic on a modern day cruise ship is a lot less elaborate....a certificate is just left on your bed! Probably just as well, the razor doesn't appeal! Dawn Sent from my iPhone On 5 Apr 2011, at 10:38, "Neville Rasmussen" <jimmyjamjar@cybersmart.co.za> wrote: My Uncle was a seaman and served for a number of years on the Union Castle Line ships. On one of his visits he brought me a copy of the crossing the line certificate that the Union Castle ships issued to their passengers. He told of the ceremony that took place and how he was frequently asked to be a part as one of the "Officials" of the ceremony, he was a right royal comic and prankster and so the tasks suited him very well, usually being the one who would put the shaving cream on the faces of the initiates before King Neptune shaved it off with an enormous cut throat razor (made of wood so quite safe). I have kept the certificate now for for 60 years always hoping that I would be part of the ceremony one day but alas even though I went to sea for a time I never did cross the line in a ship, by plane several times but by ship sadly no. In the naval tradition I was officially allowed to put one elbow on the table for having crossed around the Cape of Good Hope but never got to put both elbows on the table for also having crossed Cape Horn. In another incident while at the Naval Colledge I did get to walk the plank for some misdemeanor and landed up in the harbour in full uniform! Neville on dry land in Cape Town ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Constantine" <bconstantine@shaw.ca> To: "'Tim Latham'" <web@mightyseas.co.uk>; <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 5:51 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Crossing the Line in the Carmanian Hi Tim... I do not have answers to your questions but you have raised a topic that is quite fascinating. There are many spell-binding tales of Crossing the Equator Ceremonies. I suspect that planning the ceremony was a good way to pass the time on long voyages and it was certainly a rite of passage for travellers. You and the listers may enjoy visiting Google Images and doing a search on 'Crossing the Equator Certificates". King Neptune and a captivating collection of beautifully rendered, fanciful graphics await you. It was a grey, dreaky day on the West Coast of British Columbia, and I would far rather have been Crossing the Line to sunnier climes than puddle-jumping around here! Barbara in Vancouver -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tim Latham Sent: April 4, 2011 4:02 PM To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Crossing the Line in the Carmanian Dear Listers, I have recently been sent a transcript of a diary of a crewman aboard the Carmanian, a Workington sailing ship. The diary refers to "Neptune coming aboard" on the 23rd March 1900, when the ship was bound from New York (departed 18th February) for Hong Kong (arrived 9th July). Coincidentally, a photograph of a "Crossing the Line" ceremony aboard the Carmanian has been published by the Newcastle NSW Museum, but with no date given. http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Quer yPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php <http://collections.ncc.nsw.gov.au/keemu/pages/nrm/Display.php?irn=28789&Que ryPage=%2Fkeemu%2Fpages%2Fnrm%2FQuery.php> I am trying to tie the diary to the photo. The sender of the diary has a different photo of the Carmanian's crew at San Francisco in December 1900, and clearly some people are in both photos. http://www.mightyseas.co.uk/marhist/gallery/wkton/carmanian_crew_1900.jpg What interests me is that three of the people in the "Crossing the Line" photo have numbers drawn on their shirts, 44, 45 and 46. Could this be the lines of Longitude where the Equator was crossed - 45 W, just off the coast of Brazil ? This would make sense in terms of time and sailing ship routes, and would mean that the photo could be tied to the diary. Could any Mariners familar with the age old ritual confirm this is the meaning of the numbers? Or provide explanations for other features in the photo, such as the blackened faces, the objects being held, or why some are in turbans. Or explain why, since the woman on the gallery is clearly a woman, Mrs.Neptune is played by, judging by the moustache, a sailor ? Best Wishes, Tim Latham www.mightyseas.co.uk Regards..........Len ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Have you tried http://www.findagrave.com/ ? -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Don Sent: 04 April 2011 21:34 To: mariners-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Drowning in River Plate I have an uncle who was drowned in the River Plate at San Nicolas Roads in 1934. I have copies of the accident report, articles, personal effects list etc but there is no mention of his body ever being recovered. Does anyone have any ideas on where this information might be held? Don ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message