A Question has cropped up regarding Ships Photos and whether we should include all vessels up to date or have a cut off point say 1960 ? . my own feeling is that there are numerous websites dealing with modern shipping already and our primary focus is on providing research tools and materials of Maritime interest from an older time. I would like some thoughts on this. Also some members are having difficulty with my passwords , just cut and paste everything between the " " and you can change it after you login. Mick

Hi Bryan, With all the usual caveats about sucking eggs, and you having actually done it and got the tee-shirt.... Kathleen originally specifically mentioned entry to the good-old USofA. I remember my late brother (later a MM) complaining in what must have been the early 1960s how a seaman's identity card was good enough for anywhere else, but to get ashore in the US for 12 hours took about that long with US Immigration. So even then I think you had to fill in their usual forms about not being a member of the Communist Party; not importing guns, liquor or women for immoral purposes; and not seeking to overthrow the constitution. That said, I don't think you needed other documentation, but it certainly wasn't a case of strolling down the gangplank and waving your I.D. at the dockyard gate. Incidentally, my brother's photograph for his seaman's card, featuring a haircut from a ship's cook in the Red Sea and the number along the bottom, was such that I could wave it in school to deter bullies (think you're 'ard). Graham (husband of Irene) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Richards" <bryanrichards@btinternet.com> To: "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com>; <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond In modern times I spent about 4 years between Jan 1958 to Nov 1962 in the Merchant Navy. I carried a Seamans Identity Card. This was sufficient. Some ports like Tel Aviv and Bona Algeria, we were advised to carry them when going ashore, for they required identity at the dock gates. But I dont remember having to show my card when going ashore at other places. Regards Bryan www.swanseamariners.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When applying for membership to the Gallery please supply a " user name " . A password and link will then be emailed back to you. After login passwords can be changed, user - names can only be changed by the admin . Thanks Mick O Rourke

I would like to hear more about this (see the messages below)-and in both directions, what about Americans/Canadian sailors who finished their job on a ship on England or European shores? I've found my great grandfather coming back as a passenger on a ship, yet listed as a sailor. his seamans papers, the ones the nation archives would have here in the US, were lost or destroyed. Cornelia Message: 3 Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 21:38:26 -0400 From: "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? Kathleen in toronto ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 21:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Betty Hebert Subject: Re: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com [5] Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Well my grandfather crossed the pond in 1901 and jumped ship in Galveston.? He had his seaman's papers but not the one for the trip he was on.? I assume the captain did not give it to the sailor until completion?of the voyage.? Persons the country legally or via a passenger ship signed "An Intent to Immigrate" paper upon?arrival. In New Orleans a?fee was charged to leave the ship so many actually jumped in the water at the mouth of the Mississippi to?avoid payment. Regards, Betty Hebert? ________________________________ From: KATHLEEN LOPEZ To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com [8] Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 8:38:26 PM Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for? Canada or the USA did they require a passport?? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Kathleen in toronto ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com [9] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------ To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com [10]. To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to MARINERS@rootsweb.com [11]. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com [12] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 133 **************************************** Links: ------ [1] mailto:kathleen.lopez@rogers.com [2] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com [3] mailto:F43072D176744C9280FB108E9A596093@DJLDR9B [4] mailto:ebhebert@yahoo.com [5] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com [6] mailto:492265.53047.qm@web130209.mail.mud.yahoo.com [7] mailto:kathleen.lopez@rogers.com [8] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com [9] mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com [10] mailto:MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com [11] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com [12] mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com

The basic answer to your question regarding passports for the Merchant service in the period you are looking at is no. Crew who wanted to sign off, sick or transfer to another ship in foreign ports were put before the Consul of the nationality of the ship, who endorsed the crew agreement. When they signed on another ship in that foreign port they would be put before the Consul of the Nationality of the ship they are joining. Discharge certificates were issued to the individual to show to the next employer. But I have found many of these left archived in the crew lists, some from the previous ship and others of the same ship not collected by the crew member because he failed to turn up and sign off. Those who absconded were reported to the police and in some cases were sent to prison and in others put back on board when the ship sailed. But some of course were not found. In modern times I spent about 4 years between Jan 1958 to Nov 1962 in the Merchant Navy. I carried a Seamans Identity Card. This was sufficient. Some ports like Tel Aviv and Bona Algeria, we were advised to carry them when going ashore, for they required identity at the dock gates. But I dont remember having to show my card when going ashore at other places. This modern ID card was much more comprehensive than a passport, it had photograph with discharge book No. National Insurance No., signature, full name, date and place of birth, Colour of eyes and hair, Colour of compexion, Height , Distinguishing marks, Certificates held, Rank, National Service Registration No., fingerprints of all fingers and thumbs. Pension fund and Registered No. Name, relationship and address of next of kin or friend. Some of these have survived and are available at the national archives under BT372. Without trying to be political I complained that I was still alive and my document could be bought by anyone for £2.60. I believe they now have restrictions on proof of ownership or death of the ancestor ? I do not know what the latest version of this identity card contains. Advice on merchant seamen from one organisation offering travel to shipping company crew is Merchant Seamen are those holding a Seaman Book or Seafarer's National Identity Document adopted by the ILO member states (ILO = International Labour Organization). Seamen must travel on duty and hold a Letter of Guarantee of their shipping company. Information on those types of passengers may be found in Country Information. (Note: If no information exists on merchant seamen, the normal passport, visa and/or transit regulations apply.) One needs to read the International Labour Office Convention No.108 Regards Bryan www.swanseamariners.org.uk

Today I am releasing the first installment of our new website. The Photo Gallery The new Gallery will allow registered users upload images and or other media files to the Mariners website. I envisage two uses for the gallery. 1. Members of the list can upload images and or documents associated with queries on the mailing list, the lack of facility's for file attachments on Roots Web lists can be frustrating so I hope this will over come this problem. 2. The Gallery allows members to create personal photo albums within defined categories, with this I am hoping we can build up a collection of Ship Photos and other collections of Maritime interest. Membership is open to Mariners Mailing List Members only to register please email gallery@mariners-list.com Email Subject = Sign me up Email Message = contact email and desired user name. A Few Points : Images must be of Maritime Interest, Ships, Mariners, Harbours, Events, Documents. : Each member will be allocated an amount of space, if you need more please contact me. : Please do not borrow images from other websites make sure you own or have the right to use the image, I will delete images where copyright has been breached. : In the ship section please insure you have a name for the vessel and supply any other info you have. : Do not use your space for commercial or personal advertising you will get Banned. As always I thrive on feed back, let me know how I can make it best fit your needs. If you have problems using the Gallery do not post on the Mailing List contact gallery@mariners-list.com http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/ Mick O Rourke Mariners List

----- Original Message ----- From: Irene Read To: Mary Herbert Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:51 PM Subject: Samuel Mitchell, drowned seaman , 1881 My ancestor, Samuel Mitchell is found in the 1881 census as the master of the 'Leading Star' at Lowestoft, on board the ship / boat on the night of April 3rd with four crew members: a mate, two AB seamen and a 14-year-old cook. In July 1881, we have the baptism of a Samuel William Mitchell at Stockton, Norfolk ; the son of Samuel and Emma Mitchell ; which has a note "the father lately drowned at sea". I cannot find a burial record for Norfolk or Suffolk, which is not suprising perhaps, if he was lost overboard. However, I cannot find a death registered either. Does anyone know the usual procedure in these horribly common C19th fishing tragedies? Would the widow wait 7years for a presumption of death? Can you have a coroner's inquest without a body? There is a Board of Trade Inquiry record of Grimsby fishing deaths through this period on line: was this a national enquiry and are the records at Kew or elsewhere, or even on-line? I assume the Leading Star, with a crew of 4+1 idler was something small, like a smack. Are there records for ships/boats that small? Would the master have any registered qualification? A lot of questions, I am afraid, but I would be grateful for any information or even hints as to where to look. Irene

Hi Kathleen I can't tell you what other paperwork there might be but for passports see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/passports.htm Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) PS the only dumb question is the one that doesn't get asked :-) > This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did > they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed > for the man? > Kathleen in toronto

I don't know about the Merchant Service, but there was never any need for Royal Navy personnel to possess a passport, even when I served in the Navy....when arriving in a foreign country our R.N. identity papers were considered adequate, be it the old fashioned Pay Book, or the later Identity Card. The only time I needed a passport was when I went to work ashore at Mombasa in Kenya for a couple of years I suspect that a similar arrangement was sufficient for Merchant Service / Navy personnel. However, with the current problems with terrorism and the paranoia that is exhibited by some countries merchant seamen have been caught up in the security net and are often treated with little thought or consideration and have, I read, great difficulty even getting a run ashore in some parts of the World ....although ship turn around times are so quick that the time spent in port these days is very limited and I doubt that there is much time, if any, even for a visit to a pub or bar ? Passports in general were usually considered an exceptional and expensive additional requirement until the First World War, but it all changed after the War when they were required wherever one crossed a national border, although there are some exceptions these days.. Paul On Tue, 3 May 2011 21:38:26 -0400, "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com> wrote: >This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? > Kathleen in toronto > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? Kathleen in toronto

Well my grandfather crossed the pond in 1901 and jumped ship in Galveston.  He had his seaman's papers but not the one for the trip he was on.  I assume the captain did not give it to the sailor until completion of the voyage.  Persons the country legally or via a passenger ship signed "An Intent to Immigrate" paper upon arrival. In New Orleans a fee was charged to leave the ship so many actually jumped in the water at the mouth of the Mississippi to avoid payment. Regards, Betty Hebert  ________________________________ From: KATHLEEN LOPEZ <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com> To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 8:38:26 PM Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for  Canada or the USA did they require a passport?  I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man?                     Kathleen in toronto ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mariners, I wish to illustrate a talk [Charity Work] about the 'Consett Iron and Steel Company' and would like some free photographs of their vessels - Blackhill, Consett, Garesfield, Iveston, Knitsley and Leadgate, if anyone could oblige me please? Many thanks Rod RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

Andy There is mention of a Lenthall-Baugb Tide Indicator at : http://www.archive.org/stream/marineengineer34londuoft/marineengineer34londuoft_djvu.txt and wondered if you could deduce something from that ? Paul On Mon, 2 May 2011 21:40:35 EDT, AndyCAdams@aol.com wrote: >Dear List > >I have recently acquired a model of the above. I have searched the web >looking for instructions for use without success. Patent taken out in 1910 and >as far as I am aware a rare item. > >Fully appreciate if you tell me this is not an appropriate subject for the >list and I must wind my neck in. > >Rgds > >Andy Adams > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Dear List I have recently acquired a model of the above. I have searched the web looking for instructions for use without success. Patent taken out in 1910 and as far as I am aware a rare item. Fully appreciate if you tell me this is not an appropriate subject for the list and I must wind my neck in. Rgds Andy Adams

Hello all, I have recently discovered my great uncle William Alexander Wilson, Lost at sea "S.S. Bennington" off Rotterdam 30.12.1904. I am still a novice at seamen records but I do enjoy reading your letters. Could anyone tell me how to find out more about the death of William Alexander Wilson and voyage of "SS Bennington"..... Thank you Thelma

Morning all,reading an article in Sea Breezes,(Nov 1970),regards the above named vessel.The vessels history states not delivered(Soc Navale de L Ouest),sold to Harrisons of Liverpool.In G Cubbins book Harrisons of Liverpool laid down in 1914,completed 1917,but no mention of being ordered/owned by Soc Navale.Can anyone shed some light on the subject. Ted Howard D Nutt 17 Burnthill Crescent Newtownabbey BT36 5AE Phone 02890879791 Mobile07974683388

Greetings to the Lists, If anyone is interested I have some 'new' material at the blog site....so if your in for some reading other than all the negative news that is happening in this ole world....well you might with to give this site: http://navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/ a go....see if anything interest you.... In the mean time I'm going to get into banging out the tale of the Tirpitz and the X-craft.....and throw that on the site when completed..... It is completed!!!!!....so it is published Hope you all enjoy!! "We" wish you well Bud Shortridge & Mr. R.J. Site: Navy Articles BUDS NAVAL & MERCHANT SHIP ARTICLES http://navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/

To all members who own or control Websites of Maritime interest, as you know the Mariners L website is being upgraded and I am developing a section as a directory of online maritime resources. A sneak preview is available just contact me at info@mariners-l.co.uk I would like to list all projects (websites) dealing with maritime research, if you would like your website included, here is what I will need. Each resource will have as much space as the owner cares to fill , each entry will start with a short summary (100 words max) with a link to a more detail page. The entry can contain text, images and links to your own web site, it can not contain content not relevant to maritime matters, links to other sites or commercial advertising. I will except text and images in any format, but don't go to too much trouble formatting text as I will be reformatting to suit the design of the site. In addition to the above any member who would like to write an article relevant to researching some aspect of Mariners history please contact me I would be more the happy to assist. The original mariners website attracts around 14,000 visitors a month, this will be a valuable back link for your website and we wont even charge you for the privilege. Mariners List Photo Gallery No I don't want a picture of your own mug, but I would like to build a photo gallery of ships, harbours, or events which are relevant to our common interest. Before you email me pictures, make sure you have the right to use it, if its a Ship make sure to give us the name and if possible the date and location, all credit will be given to the copyright owner, and I can water mark pictures if necessary. If you have a photo graph that your relative served on please include some detail we will be more the happy to host it for you. Mick O Rourke Mariners List

Two questions: Is there a document that shows the name of those who died in those wrecks/collisions? How can I track my ancestor's merchant mariner work record through the known last record (1861 census on the Robert Stride)? He died (close enough to swim to shore) off the coast in a wreck some where between 1866 - 1871. He's not in any death records I have found. Thanks! Carol > From: pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 11:33:38 +0100 > Subject: [MAR] An Abstract of the Returns made to the Board of Trade of Wrecks, > > > For those interested in wrecks around the coast of the UK, including > Ireland, an annual report was made to Parliament in documents such as > the following report for 1867: > > Accounts and Papers of the House of Commons by Great Britain. > Parliament. House of Commons dated 1868, page 421, available through > Google Books : > > An Abstract of the Returns made to the Board of Trade of Wrecks, > Casualties and Collisions, which occurred on or near the Coasts of the > United Kingdom from 1 Jan to 31 Dec 1867, which also included details > of awards made for gallantry and distinguished service etc. I believe > a separate return is made for the Channel Isles. > > Should you have difficulty finding the document I was searching for > "Teazer" at the time, between 1860 and 1870. > > I would expect that you should also find reports for other years, > although those of us who live in the UK have to wait 140 years before > copyright is removed from all documents, unless you know how to rig > your browser to fool Google into thinking you live in the US ? > > Paul > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings all ! I have another mystery to try and sort out. I have a picture of my dad with the ships crew but in the photo the name of the ship written on the lifeboy and propped up in front of the picture is indistinct. It looks like it could be HMS or HMSAS and then a missing letter and ending with what could be HEAD or MEAD. It could not have been a large vessel as the CO is a Lt Cmdr, then 3 Lt's (One being my dad) 4 PO's and 4 CPO's and 18 seamen who interestingly all seem to have their cap tally's tied with butterfly bows, unfortunately being wartime they only have HMS on the tally's. The officers don't have the orange flash diamond above their stripes so I suspect it was not a HMSAS ship (Although I don't know at what stage the orange flash came into use). there is no distinguishing feature on what little one can see of the ship. I have tried several places but can only find a USS Mead. Neville