Black Hill Built in 1919 as War Cherry Registered as War Cherry in Newcastle 14/04/1919 Builder : Forth Shipbuilding & Engineering Co. Alloa Dimensions : 303.3 X 43 and depth of hold 20.8 ( feet ) Tonnage : 1462n / 2513g 1 triple expansion engine, screw prop, speed 10.5 knots, NHP 263 Owners : Consett Iron and Steel Company, John.W. Hopper & Henry.U. Dickenson ( From MNL 1921) She was mined and sank on the 18th November 1939, approx 15 miles S/E of Harwich where she still remains at about 16 meters. 51.47.32N / 1.39.18E . Mick Mariners List

Hi Rod The other Garesfield never belonged to W. Dickinson, and the 148092 Garesfield was only held for a short time in 1924 she was sold to the Wexford SS Co. in the same year. The Mercantile Navy Lists for the 1920s ar now available from the MHA which should hold most of the early ones . http://collections.mun.ca/cdm4/description.php?phpReturn=browse.php&cisoroot=mha_mercant I will have a look at the others for you . Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: Rod Clayburn To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:23 AM Subject: [MAR] Consett Iron and Steel Company vessels

Rod, Full career and particulars of the LEADGATE detailed at: http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/smiths/19161929/chilton1925.htm No photo, unfortunately. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 09/05/2011 08:23, Rod Clayburn wrote: > Mariners, > > Reference my previous on the Consett Iron and Steel Company vessels. > > I have it from books on the subject, that the following vessels were those > operated by or on behalf of the company by W. Dickinson, 65 Quay, > Newcastle. Which I understand to be the same as William Dickinson& Co of > Newcastle. Coal and coke exporters, iron ore merchants, ship and insurance > brokers, forwarding, import and export agents? > > BLACKHILL 143123 c.1919 > CONSETT 143033 c.1919 > GARESFIELD 148092 c.1924 > KNITSLEY 148098 c.1937 > LEADGATE 148110 c.1935 > > There was another GARESFIELD 129189, however the specification does not tally. > > There is also mention of a vessel called IVESTON - Nothing found except a > Minesweeper of the same name. > > If anyone could add to this information please, plus any photographs, I > would be most appreciative. > > Many thanks > > Rod Clayburn > > RSVP. > Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mariners, Reference my previous on the Consett Iron and Steel Company vessels. I have it from books on the subject, that the following vessels were those operated by or on behalf of the company by W. Dickinson, 65 Quay, Newcastle. Which I understand to be the same as William Dickinson & Co of Newcastle. Coal and coke exporters, iron ore merchants, ship and insurance brokers, forwarding, import and export agents? BLACKHILL 143123 c.1919 CONSETT 143033 c.1919 GARESFIELD 148092 c.1924 KNITSLEY 148098 c.1937 LEADGATE 148110 c.1935 There was another GARESFIELD 129189, however the specification does not tally. There is also mention of a vessel called IVESTON - Nothing found except a Minesweeper of the same name. If anyone could add to this information please, plus any photographs, I would be most appreciative. Many thanks Rod Clayburn RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

I have just come across some information that my great grandfather's brother Edward Hampden EARLY (b 1860) was a merchant seaman who travelled to and from South Africa a lot. He was Captain of the SS Inyoni in 1905 of which it is said that he threw himself overboard and committed suicide. He left behind a wife and six children. Would there be an inquest held into this? If so where would I find it? Thanks Jo

This is my revised, first posting. Thanks, Marg M. I've read with great interest what you've said about seamen in the 1800s and their documentation . My interest is between 1840 and 1870. Our family story says that my great-grandfather, THOMAS LLOYD EVANS (born about 1840) was an engineer, who went to sea to further his experience in the maritime area. I have a hospital entry form, which states he came to Australia on the SCHAVINA. I have found no ship with that name and conclude that he must have had an accent, as well as the person who recorded the information. So I don't know when he arrived in Australia, or at which port. He died in Charters Towers, Queensland in 1905. I've looked for him among deserters listed in Victoria, Australia and thought the ones I found did not match his age, not even close. I have tried to find a crew agreement for him. The one agreement I thought likely, had a signature which did not match the one on Thomas' wedding certificate in 1870 in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, or on the documents when his daughter died. I have found a Thomas Evans, son of William Evans and Margaret Owen, born in Anglesey 1840, who was married to Catherine Jones and had three children with her by 1864. On the 1871 Census, Catherine and the children are living on her father's farm, with no mention of her husband. By 1881 she and the children are still there and she is listed as a widow. If my Thomas is the same man who left a family in Wales, he may have been less than truthful about his coming to Australia. As I've made no progress with information from the family story and what Thomas Lloyd Evans supplied, himself, in his chirdren's birth certificates I'm distrusting what he said and trying to cast the net a bit wider. I have one authenticated photo of him. I'll be grateful for your ideas. Can you suggest anything? Miriam O'D

Hi Miriam Just a thought on signatures on certificates - in England and Wales, and it may be the same in Australia, a certificate is not the same as the original register but usually a handwritten copy, so the "signatures" you see on certificates are not the original signatures. To see the original signatures made at the marriage ceremony you would have to look at the original register, if that's possible. Just so you don't dismiss the marriage solely on the grounds that the signatures differ. As for Welsh ancestry, it's worth looking at the National Library of Wales website (http://www.llgc.org.uk/). Best wishes Tony Holkham www.tonyholkham.org Cool and bright Pembrokeshire On 7 May 2011 05:17, Warren & Miriam <warren.miriam@bigpond.com> wrote: > This is my revised, first posting. Thanks, Marg M. > > I've read with great interest what you've said about seamen in the 1800s > and their documentation . My interest is between 1840 and 1870. > > Our family story says that my great-grandfather, THOMAS LLOYD EVANS > (born about 1840) was an engineer, who went to sea to further his > experience in the maritime area. I have a hospital entry form, which > states he came to Australia on the SCHAVINA. I have found no ship with > that name and conclude that he must have had an accent, as well as the > person who recorded the information. So I don't know when he arrived in > Australia, or at which port. He died in Charters Towers, Queensland in > 1905. > > I've looked for him among deserters listed in Victoria, Australia and > thought the ones I found did not match his age, not even close. I have > tried to find a crew agreement for him. The one agreement I thought > likely, had a signature which did not match the one on Thomas' wedding > certificate in 1870 in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia, or on the documents > when his daughter died. > > I have found a Thomas Evans, son of William Evans and Margaret Owen, > born in Anglesey 1840, who was married to Catherine Jones and had three > children with her by 1864. On the 1871 Census, Catherine and the > children are living on her father's farm, with no mention of her > husband. By 1881 she and the children are still there and she is listed > as a widow. > > If my Thomas is the same man who left a family in Wales, he may have > been less than truthful about his coming to Australia. As I've made no > progress with information from the family story and what Thomas Lloyd > Evans supplied, himself, in his chirdren's birth certificates I'm > distrusting what he said and trying to cast the net a bit wider. I have > one authenticated photo of him. > > I'll be grateful for your ideas. Can you suggest anything? > > Miriam O'D > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren & Miriam" <warren.miriam@bigpond.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond > On 4/05/2011 9:41 PM, Bryan Richards wrote: >> Hi Miriam > This is my first posting. Best way is to sellect a new email and address it and give it a meaningful subject header rather than tag your email on to an exisiting one. > > Our family story says that my great-grandfather, THOMAS LLOYD EVANS > (born 1840) was an engineer, who went to sea to further his experience > in the maritime area. > The one agreement I thought likely had a > signature which did not match the one on Thomas' wedding certificate in > 1870 in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia. > > I have found a Thomas Evans, son of William Evans and Margaret Owen, > born in Anglesey 1840, ????? On the VIC Pioneers birth ,death and marriages CD his birth place is given as Manchester ??? There is a Thomas Lloyd EVANs, engineer, in the Qld 1903 electoral roll, living up at Charters Towers ?? What info is on his death cert ? Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast Australia

Hi Jo His death registration, the certificate would hopefully show the cause of death and if an inquest was held with the coroners name GRO Marine deaths 1903 - 1965 At Sea 1905 E H EARLY Vessel Inyoni age 44 Page 80 Also Probate Calendars 1905 EARLY Edward Hampden of 78 Wanstead Park avenue Manor Park Essex died 13 March 1905 at sea Administration London 4 July to Ada Mary Mellor Early widow Effects £173 16s As the above are letters of Administration (in other words, no will) there is unlikely to be anything to be gained by getting them I have not found anything on the event in the times or other online papers Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > I have just come across some information that my great grandfather's brother Edward Hampden EARLY > (b 1860) was a merchant seaman who travelled to and from South Africa a lot. He was Captain of the > SS Inyoni in 1905 of which it is said that he threw himself overboard and committed suicide. He > left behind a wife and six children. Would there be an inquest held into this? If so where would I > find it? > > Thanks > Jo

On 4/05/2011 9:41 PM, Bryan Richards wrote: > The basic answer to your question regarding passports for the Merchant > service in the period you are looking at is no. Crew who wanted to sign off, > sick or transfer to another ship in foreign ports were put before the Consul > of the nationality of the ship, who endorsed the crew agreement. When they > signed on another ship in that foreign port they would be put before the > Consul of the Nationality of the ship they are joining. Discharge > certificates were issued to the individual to show to the next employer. But > I have found many of these left archived in the crew lists, some from the > previous ship and others of the same ship not collected by the crew member > because he failed to turn up and sign off. Those who absconded were reported > to the police and in some cases were sent to prison and in others put back > on board when the ship sailed. But some of course were not found. > > > > Regards > Bryan > www.swanseamariners.org.uk > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > This is my first posting. I've read with great interest what you've said about seamen in the 1800s and their documentation . My interest is between 1840 and 1870. Our family story says that my great-grandfather, THOMAS LLOYD EVANS (born 1840) was an engineer, who went to sea to further his experience in the maritime area. I have a hospital entry form, which states he came to Australia on the SCHAVINA. I have found no ship with that name and conclude that he must have had an accent as well as the person who recorded the information. So I don't know when he arrived in Australia, or at which port. I've looked for him among deserters listed in Victoria, Australia and thought the ones I found did not match his age. I have tried to find a crew agreement for him. The one agreement I thought likely had a signature which did not match the one on Thomas' wedding certificate in 1870 in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia. I have found a Thomas Evans, son of William Evans and Margaret Owen, born in Anglesey 1840, who was married to Catherine Jones and had three children with her by 1864. On the 1871 Census she and the children are living on her father's farm with no mention of her husband. By 1881 she and the children are still there and she is listed as a widow. If my Thomas is the same man who left a family in Wales, he may have been less than truthful about his coming to Australia. I have his signatures on his marriage in 1870 and the burial plot for a daughter in 1872. I'll be grateful for your ideas. Can you suggest anything? Miriam O'D

Thank you, Mick. I must have misunderstood the original explanation! Peter Beeston -----Original Message----- From: Mick Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 8:52 PM To: Mariners Subject: Re: [MAR] Photo Gallery Hi Nivard The Mariners-L website is an extension of the Mariners Mailing List so I am confining membership to members of the list. The general public will be able to view all images and information with out restriction once its up there, If I open membership to everyone it becomes something other then a tool for our members and may detract from the Mailing List in time. I run a small IT business from my home and I am a full time carer to my disabled wife, I would not have the time to administrate a larger forum. I am not sure I understand the comparison with the bank of England ? may be its that the gallery is empty and looks a bit more like an Irish Bank. And to Peter a password is not required for viewing images or information ?, The Gallery is empty except for a few images myself and Ron put up to test it out. Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: Nivard Ovington To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Photo Gallery ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mick, I think you are right,there are enough sites dealing with modern ship photos i would like to have the cut off point at the 1960`s like you suggest,my own views are that ships after this date [except for the Russian fleet] lost all semblance of loking like a ship and became box boats instead,this ispurely my view. Cheers, Joe McMillan, South Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:03 PM Subject: [MAR] Photo Gallery >A Question has cropped up regarding Ships Photos and whether we should >include all vessels up to date or have a cut off point say 1960 ? . my own >feeling is that there are numerous websites dealing with modern shipping >already and our primary focus is on providing research tools and materials >of Maritime interest from an older time. > I would like some thoughts on this. > > Also some members are having difficulty with my passwords , just cut and > paste everything between the " " and you can change it after you login. > > Mick > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think that it is sensible to require a password to put something up but perhaps unnecessary for viewing? Peter Beeston -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:48 PM To: Mick ; Mariners Subject: Re: [MAR] Photo Gallery Hi Mick Can I just ask why its not a public site ? Why does it need to be like the Bank of England and therefore likely to put some off even looking? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >A Question has cropped up regarding Ships Photos and whether we should >include all vessels up to >date or have a cut off point say 1960 ? . my own feeling is that there are >numerous websites >dealing with modern shipping already and our primary focus is on providing >research tools and >materials of Maritime interest from an older time. > I would like some thoughts on this. > > Also some members are having difficulty with my passwords , just cut and > paste everything between > the " " and you can change it after you login. > > Mick ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Test

Hi Paul & Peter Its not nessessary to login to view images in the Gallery ? Or am I missing something . Viewing images is open to everyone with out restriction no pass word needed. . Membership is required to build Albums, upload images and contribute information . The reason you don't see any images is there are none yet . Mick

Thanks for yours Mick And also for the explanation I was a little concerned that it was a members only with no public access, you have explained that it will be open to all to view I like the analogy with the Irish Bank, very good :-) On first sight it sounded like a members only site and I didn't even look because of that God luck with it and my best to you and your good lady wife Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hi Nivard > > The Mariners-L website is an extension of the Mariners Mailing List so I am confining membership > to members of the list. > The general public will be able to view all images and information with out restriction once its > up there, > If I open membership to everyone it becomes something other then a tool for our members and may > detract from the Mailing List in time. > > I run a small IT business from my home and I am a full time carer to my disabled wife, I would not > have the time to administrate a larger forum. > > I am not sure I understand the comparison with the bank of England ? may be its that the gallery > is empty and looks a bit more like an Irish Bank. > > And to Peter a password is not required for viewing images or information ?, The Gallery is > empty except for a few images myself and Ron put up to test it out. > > Mick

Hi Nivard The Mariners-L website is an extension of the Mariners Mailing List so I am confining membership to members of the list. The general public will be able to view all images and information with out restriction once its up there, If I open membership to everyone it becomes something other then a tool for our members and may detract from the Mailing List in time. I run a small IT business from my home and I am a full time carer to my disabled wife, I would not have the time to administrate a larger forum. I am not sure I understand the comparison with the bank of England ? may be its that the gallery is empty and looks a bit more like an Irish Bank. And to Peter a password is not required for viewing images or information ?, The Gallery is empty except for a few images myself and Ron put up to test it out. Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: Nivard Ovington To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Photo Gallery

Concur with Peter. Paul On Thu, 5 May 2011 19:55:35 +1000, "Peter Beeston" <mausoleus@bigpond.com> wrote: >I think that it is sensible to require a password to put something up but >perhaps unnecessary for viewing? > > >Peter Beeston > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Nivard Ovington >Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 7:48 PM >To: Mick ; Mariners >Subject: Re: [MAR] Photo Gallery > >Hi Mick > >Can I just ask why its not a public site ? > >Why does it need to be like the Bank of England and therefore likely to put >some off even looking? > >Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > >>A Question has cropped up regarding Ships Photos and whether we should >>include all vessels up to >>date or have a cut off point say 1960 ? . my own feeling is that there are >>numerous websites >>dealing with modern shipping already and our primary focus is on providing >>research tools and >>materials of Maritime interest from an older time. >> I would like some thoughts on this. >> >> Also some members are having difficulty with my passwords , just cut and >> paste everything between >> the " " and you can change it after you login. >> >> Mick > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Cornelia There were periods during the 19th Century, such as we are now experiencing in the West, when demand for goods and services were at a low ebb and there was quite a bit of unemployment in most counties, and it was difficult for seamen to find work, in contrast to periods when economies were booming or when there were wars amongst the sea powers, when ship owners had to pay extra to recruit crews and when countries like G.B. often had difficulty manning all the war ships they wanted to send to sea. In addition to wars and the economic ups and downs, Gold Rushes and the like could empty a coast of seamen, such as the West Coast of the US, when ships were arriving at SF and whole crews were heading for the gold fields with many of these ships now forming a part of the foreshore ? Paul On Wed, 04 May 2011 13:00:54 -0700, fenenga@connpoint.net wrote: > > > I would like to hear more about this (see the messages below)-and in >both directions, what about Americans/Canadian sailors who finished >their job on a ship on England or European shores? I've found my >great grandfather coming back as a passenger on a ship, yet listed as >a sailor. his seamans papers, the ones the nation archives would have >here in the US, were lost or destroyed. > > Cornelia > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 21:38:26 -0400 > From: "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" > Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel >bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am >thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed >for the man? > Kathleen in toronto > ------------------------------ > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 21:12:08 -0700 (PDT) > From: Betty Hebert > Subject: Re: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com [5] > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > Well my grandfather crossed the pond in 1901 and jumped ship in >Galveston.? He > had his seaman's papers but not the one for the trip he was on.? I >assume the > captain did not give it to the sailor until completion?of the >voyage.? Persons > the country legally or via a passenger ship signed "An Intent to >Immigrate" > paper upon?arrival. > In New Orleans a?fee was charged to leave the ship so many actually >jumped in > the water at the mouth of the Mississippi to?avoid payment. > Regards, > Betty Hebert? > ________________________________ > From: KATHLEEN LOPEZ > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com [8] > Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 8:38:26 PM > Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond > This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel >bound for? > Canada or the USA did they require a passport?? I am thinking about >the early > 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Kathleen in toronto > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com [9] with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------ > To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to > MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com [10]. > To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to >MARINERS@rootsweb.com [11]. > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com [12] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and >the body of the > email with no additional text. > End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 133 > **************************************** > > >Links: >------ >[1] mailto:kathleen.lopez@rogers.com >[2] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com >[3] mailto:F43072D176744C9280FB108E9A596093@DJLDR9B >[4] mailto:ebhebert@yahoo.com >[5] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com >[6] mailto:492265.53047.qm@web130209.mail.mud.yahoo.com >[7] mailto:kathleen.lopez@rogers.com >[8] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com >[9] mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com >[10] mailto:MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com >[11] mailto:MARINERS@rootsweb.com >[12] mailto:MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Mick Can I just ask why its not a public site ? Why does it need to be like the Bank of England and therefore likely to put some off even looking? Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >A Question has cropped up regarding Ships Photos and whether we should include all vessels up to >date or have a cut off point say 1960 ? . my own feeling is that there are numerous websites >dealing with modern shipping already and our primary focus is on providing research tools and >materials of Maritime interest from an older time. > I would like some thoughts on this. > > Also some members are having difficulty with my passwords , just cut and paste everything between > the " " and you can change it after you login. > > Mick