Greetings....to the List, Just want to let y'all know that there are alot of new articles at the site ... [which if you care to read just click on the below "My Blog" and it will take you to the site. I've been putting up posting all the time as I post a new article....but unknown to me was my one mail service that I use....was on operating correctly....actually it still isn't. So that is why no messages was getting to the proper place... Anyway if your in for some reading....there is plenty there to read... Enjoy! -- Mr. R.J. & I "wish you well" *My Blog [if you care to read it]*<http://www.navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/> *SHIP HISTORY SITE <http://home.comcast.net/~cshortridge/site/>*

Hello, I am trying to find out any information that anyone may have came across regarding the sinking of the yacht "Nymph" on or around 26th March 1905, of Selsey. My Great Great Uncle was called Robert Wilkinson, and his Royal Naval Reserve record, states he " Drowned while serving on yacht "Nymph" which is supposed to have been lost off Selsey on or about 26th March 1905" Regards Klifton Snow

Test Bud Shortridge Mr. R. J. & I  "Wish You Well"  

The member whose email client sent this message is most likely unaware that a message as been sent from her PC and is not responsible for this . I will contact her and let her know. Mick Mariners list ----- Original Message ----- From: Wedndye Lowden To: lilieth@dccnet.com ; lmffeeds@q.com ; looby_loo48@yahoo.co.uk ; lowden_r@hotmail.com ; lowden_sc@hotmail.com ; mabprice@telus.net ; marine@beavis.co.uk ; MARINERS@rootsweb.com ; m.brewster@ntlworld.com Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:23 AM Subject: [MAR] (no subject) http://smgfan.com/find11.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Warning to Members Please do not click on the link in the last message it contains a virus. Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Wedndye Lowden To: lilieth@dccnet.com ; lmffeeds@q.com ; looby_loo48@yahoo.co.uk ; lowden_r@hotmail.com ; lowden_sc@hotmail.com ; mabprice@telus.net ; marine@beavis.co.uk ; MARINERS@rootsweb.com ; m.brewster@ntlworld.com Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:23 AM Subject: [MAR] (no subject)

----- Original Message ----- From: Wedndye Lowden To: lilieth@dccnet.com ; lmffeeds@q.com ; looby_loo48@yahoo.co.uk ; lowden_r@hotmail.com ; lowden_sc@hotmail.com ; mabprice@telus.net ; marine@beavis.co.uk ; MARINERS@rootsweb.com ; m.brewster@ntlworld.com Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:23 AM Subject: [MAR] (no subject) http://smgfan.com/find11.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Listers Does any one on the list have access to Lloyds Lists (Casualty lists) for March - April 1867 ?, I Have The Board Of Trade Wreck Reports but reporting was very poor that year, I would say less then 50% . In March 1867 a large number of Vessels reported to be over 300 were held off the south west corner of Ireland for a few weeks by continuous south easterly gales. there were heavy losses these were reported in the papers, I have found registration details for some, but some others I cant find details for, some of these could have been missed named or possibly non British. I was hoping Lloyds List might reveal a little more. I have uploaded a chart of the area with some of the known wrecks marked. http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pid=39#top_display_media Mick Mariners List

Helvetia, England and Virginia On new snippets page Please support free sites http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/index.html Jane

Hello Harold Lloyds tried to record the positions held by certified masters as both master and mate. In the original ledgers, certainly in the early years, an appointment as mate was indicated by the vessel's name being underlined. I think later on it was done in different ink, but I can't be certain offhand. The key to these things is usually given somewhere in the ledger - I think maybe at the top of the columns? It would be worth checking your entries to be on the safe side - assuming that all appointments were as master is an easy mistake to make and one I've come unstuck on myself. It wasn't at all unusual for certified masters to serve as mates and some went through their careers without holding command at all. You really need to check the crew agreements for the voyages in question. A master qualified in sail at this time could command a sail or a steam ship - and bear in mind that many steamers at this time had plenty of sails which they used in order to save fuel, as the engines weren't very efficient, so sailing skills would still have been required. At some point - I can't remember exactly when, but I think it was rather later - a steam only certificate came in, in which case the master could only command a steam ship. In the early 1870s a steamship master would almost certainly have needed to know how to sail. He would of course have had engineers to look after the engines. I don't know how common it was for a master to switch back and forth between sail and steam but given the similarities in the skills needed at the time, maybe it wasn't impossible. I would think it likely that a mate would switch between them more frequently. I suspect that Captain Kelly served his time in sailing ships, enabling him to qualify in sail, and then had a few years in steamers as mate before reverting to sail as master or mate and then finally moving to steam. Hope this helps Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hwabz@aol.com Sent: 28 May 2011 18:37 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Lloyd's Captains Registers (again) Hello ~ I'm hoping that someone with experience interpreting Lloyd's Captains' Register can help me out here. The Register shows Captain John Kelly (cert. no 90732) on SS HECTOR in 1871, SS CUZCO in 1872 and SS GAELIC in 1873. However, references in the newspapers (for the months of interest) show W.H. Box commanding HECTOR in 1871, W.H. Thomas commanding CUZCO in 1872 and John W. Jennings commanding GAELIC in 1873. I'm not sure if Lloyd's Captains' Register lists only men who were actually ships masters, or if it might also list them if they were simply crew members (even though they had their captains cert.). John Kelly received his cert. in 1869, so he was in the early stage of his career in 1871-73. Is it safe to assume that he was on these ships but perhaps serving as a mate or in some other capacity? A related question ~ Kelly appears to have subsequently commanded sailing ships (e.g., AMYONE) in the mid-1870s, and then reverted back to steamships (e.g., BRITISH KING, KO-I-NOOR, TYRIAN) in the 1880s-90s. Were there different certificates required for sail vs. steam, and was it common for master mariners to move back and forth from one to the other? The required skill sets must have been quite different, with significant engineering knowledge required for steam? Thanks, Harold Alamo, CA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 5/28/2011 12:01:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk writes: In the original ledgers, certainly in the early years, an appointment as mate was indicated by the vessel's name being underlined. Thanks VERY MUCH for your helpful reply, Piers. Hector and Gaelic are indeed underlined and Cuzco might be underlined (the xerox copy is faded), so it appears that my John Kelly was a member of the crew on these voyages. I can look into crew agreements to pin this down. Your point about steamers having sails at this time is well taken. I'd forgotten about that. Something else I pondered for a long time in these entries were notations that looked like "PP" following the ships' official numbers. I wondered if this might be a clue to Kelly's role on the ship but then decided it was actually "SS" for steamship. They are lower-case S's with long opening flourishes, making them look like P's. These hand-written documents are full of potential misdirection. Your help with interpreting them is (as always) much appreciated. Harold

Hi Listers We have had a really quiet 2 weeks on the list and seems the other lists are quiet also. But work for Mariners-L still goes on. Ted Finch is Beavering away compiling Fleet Lists for the new look web site (yes I pulled him out of retirement and put him back to work, I have no shame). The first batch completed are here, Http://www.mariners-list.com/site_pages.php?section=Shipping+Companies&category=British If any one can add History, Photos or any information to these Shipping Company's or Vessels please pass them on, we would love to get more members involved. Or if any member would like to compile a Fleet List of your own please contact me for instructions. Participation in the Photo Gallery is low , I thought this would be a big hit, it might grow on you in time. If any one would like to join the 39 members so far, please e-mail gallery@mariners-list.com = subject sign me up = provide a user name and email address, your password will be mailed to you please change it on first login. If you have any difficulties using the Gallery please contact gallery@mariners-list.com http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/ That's all folks enjoy the weekend . Mick Mariners List

Hello ~ I'm hoping that someone with experience interpreting Lloyd's Captains' Register can help me out here. The Register shows Captain John Kelly (cert. no 90732) on SS HECTOR in 1871, SS CUZCO in 1872 and SS GAELIC in 1873. However, references in the newspapers (for the months of interest) show W.H. Box commanding HECTOR in 1871, W.H. Thomas commanding CUZCO in 1872 and John W. Jennings commanding GAELIC in 1873. I'm not sure if Lloyd's Captains' Register lists only men who were actually ships masters, or if it might also list them if they were simply crew members (even though they had their captains cert.). John Kelly received his cert. in 1869, so he was in the early stage of his career in 1871-73. Is it safe to assume that he was on these ships but perhaps serving as a mate or in some other capacity? A related question ~ Kelly appears to have subsequently commanded sailing ships (e.g., AMYONE) in the mid-1870s, and then reverted back to steamships (e.g., BRITISH KING, KO-I-NOOR, TYRIAN) in the 1880s-90s. Were there different certificates required for sail vs. steam, and was it common for master mariners to move back and forth from one to the other? The required skill sets must have been quite different, with significant engineering knowledge required for steam? Thanks, Harold Alamo, CA

sorry here is the link http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Your_Archives:Historical_Streets_Project > Just came across this Great facility indexes to the censuses of England > and Wales for 1841-1891 you can search for ship in port etc enter a name, > also street names, people and places > Jane > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jane I take it you mean http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Home_page Although there are street indexes (an ongoing project) I am not aware of actual indexes to the census, can you give a link to same please Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Just came across this Great facility indexes to the censuses of England and Wales for 1841-1891 > you can search for ship in port etc enter a name, also street names, people and places > Jane

Just came across this Great facility indexes to the censuses of England and Wales for 1841-1891 you can search for ship in port etc enter a name, also street names, people and places Jane

Hi Peter Welcome to the Mariners List. As Ted said she was sold to a Spanish company in 1901 and renamed. Actually she was removed from the British Register at the end of 1900, so this might help with the dates. >From shipping reports in the British Papers the voyages I found are as follows. August 1898 sailed from Kurrachee (Karachi ?) for South Africa and on to the UK with grain. Reported 16 August. Sept 22/1898 Sailed from Manchester to Buenos Aires. Jan 1899 Arrived Buenos Aires, seems like a long time may not be the same voyage or did a detour. May 1899 Arrived back in the UK with live stock. Sept 1899 sailed from UK to Delaware Dec 1899 Philadelphia to Havana she was in collision with a dredger this may have delayed her journey as she returned to port for repairs. Oct 1900 Arrived Queenstown (Cobh, Cork) from Baltimore. The Karachi to UK voyage with grain seems the most likely, Although a detour to Jakarta or Christmas Island would have put 3500 - 4000 miles to the journey. Maybe some on the list could work out the time it would have taken to steam from Karachi to the UK and see if such a detour was possible ?. Hope that helps Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Green To: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: [MAR] SS Hindustan in Singapore/Jakarta/Christmas Island late 1890s

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Green" <P.Green@latrobe.edu.au> To: <Mariners-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 10:20 AM Subject: [MAR] SS Hindustan in Singapore/Jakarta/Christmas Island late 1890s Hi Peter, > > I am an ecologist with an interest in ships as vectors for the > introduction of non-native species, and this is my first foray into this > kind of forum. Apologies if I've chosen the wrong place for this query! To be pickey possibly TheShipList would have been a better pick but no worries :-) > > Does anyone know of an SS Hindustan operating in the southeast Asia in the > very late 19th century? This ship was supposed to have introduced > non-native black rats to Christmas Island (360 km south of Jakarta) in Dec > 1899, and in doing so introduced a blood-borne disease that caused the > extinction of two species of local, endemic rats. I have searched the > shipping news in digistized newspaper archives (esp the Straits Times from > Singapore) for the period, but cannot find a record of this ship sailing > between Singapore and Christmas Island. > > Its entirely possible the ship sailed from Jakarta. Its also possible the > Dec 1899 date is incorrect, and may in fact be around Aug/Sep 1901. The date is a possible problem a ship of this name came into the Port of Sydney quite a few times in 1897 See http://tinyurl.com/3z2wc3g. . Are a lot of refs in the Sydney Morning Herald 1897-8 . At a quick glance looks like its home port might have been Surabaya ? See http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y May also have been another ship with the same name operating around the same time ! Bye MargM Beautiful NSW Central Coast Australia

Dear Mariners, I am an ecologist with an interest in ships as vectors for the introduction of non-native species, and this is my first foray into this kind of forum. Apologies if I've chosen the wrong place for this query! Does anyone know of an SS Hindustan operating in the southeast Asia in the very late 19th century? This ship was supposed to have introduced non-native black rats to Christmas Island (360 km south of Jakarta) in Dec 1899, and in doing so introduced a blood-borne disease that caused the extinction of two species of local, endemic rats. I have searched the shipping news in digistized newspaper archives (esp the Straits Times from Singapore) for the period, but cannot find a record of this ship sailing between Singapore and Christmas Island. Its entirely possible the ship sailed from Jakarta. Its also possible the Dec 1899 date is incorrect, and may in fact be around Aug/Sep 1901. Any help appreciated! Many thanks, Pete Green Dr Pete Green Department of Botany | La Trobe University | Bundoora VIC 3086 T: 03 9479 3675| F: 03 9479 1188| W: www.latrobe.edu.au<http://www.latrobe.edu.au/> La Trobe University - ranked top in Victoria for student satisfaction (Sweeney Uni Student Report, 2009) CRICOS Provider 00115M J Please kindly consider your environment before printing this e-mail Warning to recipients: This email and any attachments are confidential and subject to copyright. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error please advise us immediately by reply email and delete all copies. It is your responsibility to examine this email and any attachments for viruses. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Information Privacy Act 2000 (Vic).

Dear Peter, I suspect that this was the 2,421 gross ton Hindustan, built 1893 for Common Bros, Sunderland. Her details were - 2,421 g.t., Official No.99616, length 290ft x beam 38.1ft, built 1893 by Osbourne, Graham & Co for the Hindustan Steam Shipping Co (Common Bros), Sunderland. 1896 transferred to Sydney NSW registry, 1899 re-registered at Sunderland, 1901 sold to Cia Cantabrica de Nav, Bilbao renamed Valmaseda,1.11.1910 wrecked near Vera Cruz while on voyage Cardiff to Vera Cruz with coal. Common Bros tramped extensively worldwide. regards Ted . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Green" <P.Green@latrobe.edu.au> To: <Mariners-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: [MAR] SS Hindustan in Singapore/Jakarta/Christmas Island late 1890s > > Dear Mariners, > > I am an ecologist with an interest in ships as vectors for the > introduction of non-native species, and this is my first foray into this > kind of forum. Apologies if I've chosen the wrong place for this query! > > Does anyone know of an SS Hindustan operating in the southeast Asia in the > very late 19th century? This ship was supposed to have introduced > non-native black rats to Christmas Island (360 km south of Jakarta) in Dec > 1899, and in doing so introduced a blood-borne disease that caused the > extinction of two species of local, endemic rats. I have searched the > shipping news in digistized newspaper archives (esp the Straits Times from > Singapore) for the period, but cannot find a record of this ship sailing > between Singapore and Christmas Island. > > Its entirely possible the ship sailed from Jakarta. Its also possible the > Dec 1899 date is incorrect, and may in fact be around Aug/Sep 1901. > > Any help appreciated! > > Many thanks, > > Pete Green > > > Dr Pete Green > > Department of Botany | La Trobe University | Bundoora VIC 3086 > T: 03 9479 3675| F: 03 9479 1188| W: > www.latrobe.edu.au<http://www.latrobe.edu.au/> > > La Trobe University - ranked top in Victoria for student satisfaction > (Sweeney Uni Student Report, 2009) > > CRICOS Provider 00115M > > J Please kindly consider your environment before printing this e-mail > > Warning to recipients: > This email and any attachments are confidential and subject to copyright. > If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying is > unauthorised. If you have received this email in error please advise us > immediately by reply email and delete all copies. It is your > responsibility to examine this email and any attachments for viruses. Any > personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the > Information Privacy Act 2000 (Vic). > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3659 - Release Date: 05/25/11 06:34:00

Hello Pete,   "Ships as vectors for the introduction of non-native species". Thank you; this is the first time that I can remember seeing that intriguing facet of shipping discussed here.   I can't help at the moment, but your question has sent me looking. Which two local species were made extinct? - the "large brown and black harmless species, something like a beaver in appearance, which burrows under the earth and lives in colonies"? - the "small and harmless" species "with a long snout"? - the reddish-brown with half-white tails "Devastator" (Mus Macleari)?   It would be sadly ironic if the invading rats had been brought by the same ship bringing someone making a professional/scientific visit. Have you been able to rule out the ships of Mr. Andrews of the Natural History Museum, Professor Murray of Edinburgh, Admiral McClear etc.? What about the small fleet of ships owned by the Ross family of Keeling-Cocos Island - they traded to Batavia?   Regards, Adi         --- On Wed, 5/25/11, Peter Green <P.Green@latrobe.edu.au> wrote: Dear Mariners, I am an ecologist with an interest in ships as vectors for the introduction of non-native species, and this is my first foray into this kind of forum.  Apologies if I've chosen the wrong place for this query! Does anyone know of an SS Hindustan operating in the southeast Asia in the very late 19th century?  This ship was supposed to have introduced non-native black rats to Christmas Island (360 km south of Jakarta) in Dec 1899, and in doing so introduced a blood-borne disease that caused the extinction of two species of local, endemic rats.  I have searched the shipping news in digistized newspaper archives (esp the Straits Times from Singapore) for the period, but cannot find a record of this ship sailing between Singapore and Christmas Island. Its entirely possible the ship sailed from Jakarta.  Its also possible the Dec 1899 date is incorrect, and may in fact be around Aug/Sep 1901. Any help appreciated! Many thanks, Pete Green Dr Pete Green Department of Botany | La Trobe University | Bundoora VIC 3086 T: 03 9479 3675| F: 03 9479 1188| W: www.latrobe.edu.au<http://www.latrobe.edu.au/> La Trobe University - ranked top in Victoria for student satisfaction (Sweeney Uni Student Report, 2009) CRICOS Provider 00115M J Please kindly consider your environment before printing this e-mail Warning to recipients: This email and any attachments are confidential and subject to copyright. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying is unauthorised. If you have received this email in error please advise us immediately by reply email and delete all copies. It is your responsibility to examine this email and any attachments for viruses. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Information Privacy Act 2000 (Vic). ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message