Many kind thanks for checking. Unfortunately it appears that gentleman isn't the 'Uncle' of Robert Henry Wilkinson. 'Uncle' Richard Wilkinson, born Spalding, Lincolnshire 1826 was listed with his sister in law in South Bishopwearmouth aged 40 (which was about 5 years out) in 1871, occupation Mariner, and is on the 1861 census in a Ship called the 'Glen', He is it appears, to be missing by the time of the 1881 census. The appears to a Merchant Marine death at sea in February 1880, of a Rich'D Wilkinson aged 48, which could also be a possibility. I can tell you that Richard Wilkinson below does not seem to be at 5, Vane Terrace on the 1881 census, but was resident there in 1861 and 1871. In 1861 with wife Mary, and daughters Amy, Mary and Sarah, and son George, and in 1871 was listed at address with wife and children and also as Master of 'Lady Campbell of Perth'. I could not find any sign of Richard Wilkinson or the crew on the 1881 census, so may have been at sea. Regards Klifton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene Read" <irene.read4@btopenworld.com> To: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net>; "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>; "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 7:34 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905. > Hi again, > > I had some credits so looked for your other ancestor , the uncle, Richard > Wilkinson on the National Archives site. > > The Board of Trade register 159/4a gives the crew together > > Maria & Elizabeth 2866 Supposed lost 23.11.81 > Richard Wilkinson 54 Master Whitstable 5,Vane Terrace, > Seaham > Charles Wiseman 22 A.B. Horning, Suffolk > Charles Wm Peck 22 A.B. Kingston > Charles Oak 18 O.S. London > Unknown Boy - > > 'Whitstable' -is in a column headed 'Nationality' but seems to be town of > residence for English people. > '5 Vane Terrace, Seaham' is the 'Last Place of Abode'. > > On the National Archives site, they also give the other register 158/4 that > seems to have the data that Family Search transcribed and Klifton gave in > his Email. The Official Number given there is undoubtedly #2865 as you > have. On 159/4a it looks more like 2866. > > > ---- Original Message ----- > >> I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on >> board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, >> would you know. >> >> Klifton >> >> > >

Greetings......Hi all....just thought I would inform you that I put up some new articles on my blog site: http://navalmerchantshiparticles.blogspot.com/ One is the article of the SS Caribstar's tangle with U-175....included in this is a quote from the Captain of the rescure vessel PC-469....interesting!!!! Next is "The Brodie System".....The Pacific Wars Secret Weapon....of which if you don't know what this is....I'm sure you'll be surprised one you start reading. Hey...hope you all enjoy -- Enjoy!! Bud & R.J We Wish You Well ARTICLES ON MY "BLOG" MERCHANT SHIP HISTORY SITE SITE OF LOST CREWS

Can anyone provide any information on the iron barque Limari built 1867 by A.Stephen & sons Glasgow for Thomas Connell of Whitehaven and the iron ship Norna built 1868 by Barclay Curle & Co. Glasgow.I am seeking the careers of these vessels and their ultimate fates.I have looked at the Clydesite database but there is not much information there.Any assistance will be gratefully received. Thank you in advance, Joe McMillan, South Australia.

Hi again, I had some credits so looked for your other ancestor , the uncle, Richard Wilkinson on the National Archives site. The Board of Trade register 159/4a gives the crew together Maria & Elizabeth 2866 Supposed lost 23.11.81 Richard Wilkinson 54 Master Whitstable 5,Vane Terrace, Seaham Charles Wiseman 22 A.B. Horning, Suffolk Charles Wm Peck 22 A.B. Kingston Charles Oak 18 O.S. London Unknown Boy - 'Whitstable' -is in a column headed 'Nationality' but seems to be town of residence for English people. '5 Vane Terrace, Seaham' is the 'Last Place of Abode'. On the National Archives site, they also give the other register 158/4 that seems to have the data that Family Search transcribed and Klifton gave in his Email. The Official Number given there is undoubtedly #2865 as you have. On 159/4a it looks more like 2866. ---- Original Message ----- > > I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on > board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, > would you know. > > Klifton > >

Hi Klifton I don't have any record of her loss, so all I can tell you is, she was a 209 Ton Brig registered in Sunderland owned in Seaham. The Maritime History Archive have crew lists up to 1881. http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=2865 Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Master Mariner Richard Wilkinson

Hi Peter I think you are right, I am looking for a needle in the haystack. I have been there done that when it comes to researching him. All we know is what was provided on his marriage certificate and the birth certificates of his children. Thank you Shirlee Wellington, NZ

Hello Mick, There appears to be a strong possibility that Robert Henry Wilkinson's uncle was lost at sea to. Using the link on the familysearch site, I found the death at sea of a Richard Wilkinson, Master Mariner, aged 54, with a Residence of Seaham. The from the GRO Drownings which I was sent, Folio no 5571, Master Richard Wilkinson aged 54 supposed drowned 23/11/1881. Ship was Maria and Elizabeth, no 2865, the owner in 1880 was a John Scott, Seaham Harbor. Regards Klifton

Hi Carol MNL stands for the Mercantile Navy List, this was an annual publication compiled by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen, It listed all merchant vessels registered under the British flag. The Clip Website has a number of issues available to view. This one is 1870 and includes all Vessels named Lavinia on the register for that year. http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/viewimages.php?page=224&reference=224&imagesource=CLIP+images&name=LAVINIA&regtype=MNL&year=1870&url= Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: CarolK Kampenhout To: mick@irishshipwrecks.com Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 4:25 AM Subject: RE: [MAR] Vessel "Lavinia" wreck in the Bridlington Bay Feb 1871 Thanks Mick!! Thanks for finding out that this is the correct ship. What does MNL stand for? Carol

I have been following this thread with interest, particularly because it is "local" to my own River Tees (UK) location, with Seaham just over 20 miles north, and Bridlington around 65 miles south. This also shows me how little I know, historically, about what went on, more or less in my own backyard! Looking at Christie's Register for 1858 (online at: http://books.google.ie/books?id=XdwNAAAAQAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false ) Mick seems to be correct insofar as it appears Seaham was a sub-port to Sunderland with any Seaham owned ships likely to be registered there. As far as the Bridlington Bay storm of February 1871 is concerned I imagine Carol and others have already undertaken a general web search and discovered quite a number of detailed accounts of that event, some of which mention the loss of the LAVINIA purely in passing. I've also been checking Lloyd's Registers which are online for both 1869 and 1870 and the Rochester-registered LAVINIA does not show, which indicates she was not classed by Lloyd's at that time. (A few years later, the Registers did start to include non-classed vessels.) Ron Mapplebeck Middlesbrough (UK) **** On 07/06/2011 00:23, Mick wrote: > Hi Carol > > As far as I know Seaham was not a port of register (I am open to > correction) but this Lavinia may have worked out of there. > > Lavinia Official Number 2593 > > Originally registered in Lyme 1853 and MNL 1860 lists her still in > Lyme > http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnumview.php?OfficialNumber=2593 > > She Appears In The MNL 1864, 68 and 1870 Registered in Rochester, > owned G.French High Street Chatham, He may have been a Managing > Owner. The Register for 2593 Lavinia was closed early in 1871 vessel > reported lost in February so I am sure this is the vessel you are > looking for. There was one other Lavinia taken off the register in > 1871 this was 5759 Reg Plymouth 83 tons she was dropped in December > 1871. > > Maritime History Archive has some Crew information. > http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=2593 > > > > You can purchase copies of crew records from Maritime History > Archive, if you do please let us know how you got on. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: CarolK Kampenhout To: Mariners > Rootsweb Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 6:01 AM Subject: [MAR] Vessel > "Lavinia" wreck in the Bridlington Bay Feb 1871 > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

Don't know if this has been posted before, but just in case. http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=fs%3A1770890&p=collectionDetails Great Britain, Deaths and Burials, 1778- 1988 There seem to be a Maritime deaths in this record collection, as distinct from the normal BMD registers. ----- Original Message ----- From: <mariners-request@rootsweb.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 4:59 PM Subject: MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 166 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London (D KLEIN) > 2. Re: Captain George HEPBURN (Paul Benyon) > 3. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (thesnows) > 4. THANKS FROM ADMIN (Ron Mapplebeck) > 5. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (Mick) > 6. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (Mick) > 7. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (thesnows) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:53:41 +0100 (BST) > From: D KLEIN <klein84@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London > To: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> > Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <982162.32801.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Shirlee, > > Sadly, the words "needle" and "haystack" spring to mind. I think that all > the > references to George Bradshaw, certainly between 1855 and 1861, are going > to be > found in Public Record Office in Victoria, see: > http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide051/PROVguide051.jsp > , if you have not already enquired there. At least they may be able to > suggest further lines of research, and the sort of documents that you need > to be > looking at. From 1861 onwards the world would seem to be your oyster - > like > many mariners, he evidently got restless. You need to establish where his > roots > might have been, so perhaps a Census, if he appeared in one, might tell > you > about his origins. I have not managed to find any mention of one online, > but > perhaps you've already been down that route? Unless George Bradshaw came > back > to the UK, it's rather difficult to suggest what to do at this remove. > You need > his date and place of birth to identify him, and link him to an individual > back > in the UK, if indeed that is where he ended up, but he may well have done > his > best to cover his tracks! > > Sorry not to have more helpful suggestions. > > Kind regards, > > PK > > > > ________________________________ > From: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> > To: D KLEIN <klein84@btinternet.com> > Cc: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, 7 June, 2011 6:07:27 > Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London > > ? > Hi Peter > > I am afraid nothing much is known about George Bradshaw seagoing > adventures. He > married Agnes Russell in Sydney on 9 May 1853. The very early NSW Marr > Certs did > not allow for parents names. The witnesses were a James Cavanagh and > George > Paterson - perhaps they were shipmates of George's. His last daughter was > born > on 23 August 1861 so you could he say he stayed around from 1853 to early > 1861 > then he took off. > > George and Agnes moved to Victoria after their only son George was born > in > 1855. Three daughters were born in Emerald Hill, Victoria, and the last > one in > Sandys Creek, Victoria. > > > I went through the Mariners and Ship in Australian Waters Index and there > seemed to be many George Bradshaw's with ages ranging from 17 to 48 yrs > old from 1856 to 1882 and none of them were Masters. Perhaps he took for > Gt > Britain and made sure never sail to back to Australia waters again. > > Shirlee > Wellington, NZ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>From: D KLEIN >>To: Shirlee Cantwell >>Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:43 AM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London >> >> >>Hello Shirlee, >> >> >>You don't tell us much about George Bradshaw - such as when was he born, >>where he lived, or where he sailed from? Having said this, checking >>the >>Mercantile Navy Lists, starting in 1849, there was one certificated >>master >>mariner during the 1850s/60s, a George Jones Bradshaw, who was >>certificated No. >>2612 at London as a Master 2nd Class in 1850. Some of his early ships >>are >>named: in 1851 he was listed 1st Mate on board the Indus of London, >>sailing >>from Southampton to the Med. In 1852 he was master of the Haddington, >>sailing from London to Southampton; and in 1853 master of the Norna of >>London, sailing from Southampton to Constantinople. He was still >>listed in >>1864. Could this be your man? >> >> >>The only other George Bradshaw I can find listed at this time is a George >>William Bradshaw, certificated 22627 as 2nd Mate at London in 1860. >> >> >>I hope there might be something useful here, although these may well be >>the >>wrong men altogether. >> >> >>Regards, >> >> >>Peter Klein >> >> >> > ________________________________ > From: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> >>To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Monday, 6 June, 2011 21:04:37 >>Subject: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London >> >>I am new to this list. George BRADSHAW is my Great Great Grandfather >>and on >>the Victorian birth certiciate for the eldest two children he was >>stated he >>was a Master Mariner and Mariner. He deserted the family early in 1861 >>before my great grandmother was born. >> >>Have searched Ancestry and have found a seaman by the name of George >>Bradshaw >>who it could be. >> >>I thought I could trace him using the Family Search microfilm starting >>with >>the Alphabetical register of Seaman, 1835-1844--class BT119--index to >>Bt >>112. Is this a good one to start with and what other microfilm could I >>search? >> >>Shirlee >>Wellington, NZ >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in >>the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 10:16:13 +0100 > From: Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] Captain George HEPBURN > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <ghmru69ibbhlssp56qi9o42uft88933il0@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Pam > >>Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >>certain social class > > Yes, I would think so. Whilst perhaps not quite of the upper class, I > would have thought that, like prospective executive officers, he would > have needed a good education, and that if he was to succeed in the > service would have needed a patron, and thus I would have thought that > his family might have had good connections some where along the line, > but whether these would have been English or Scots connections I'm > unable to say. Most certainly the Scottish education system seems to > have been superior to the English, and some might say that things > haven't changed a lot on that score ;-) > > I bang on a bit about education, but so much of the naval Master's job > involved a good knowledge of maths, including geometry and trig., and > he would also need to be able to write up good reports regarding new > coastlines and / or harbours visited with accompanying maps and > drawings to aid navigation etc., and to further the collective > knowledge of the service. The following URL will give you a good idea > regarding his responsibilities some of the other things that a naval > Master would need to know : > > http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/S06_C2_Master.html > > http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/Masters.html > >>How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy >>and >>ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? > > Not at all usual, but these weren't ordinary times. Following the end > of the Wars the strength of the RN was reduced from about 120,000 men > circa 1814 to about 17,000 in 1817, so a lot of men had to find work > elsewhere, and were having to compete with the Army and civilians, so > things were quite difficult for former servicemen around this period, > particularly when one takes into account that following the end of the > war the demand for armaments, ships, guns food and stores etc., all > but ceased. So, no doubt many others were in the same position as > George, but at least his service in the R.N. gave him a trade to fall > back on. > > Hopefully someone can advise you regarding a shipmaster or whether it > is the same a master, but with a bit of 19th Century embroidery ;-) > > Paul > > On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:58:54 +1200 (NZST), p.hislop@paradise.net.nz > wrote: > >>Thank you so very, very much Paul. This is great information. >> >>No matter how many answers you find you always have more questions. >> >>Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >>certain >>social class to have obtained these positions in the Royal Navy? >>The reason I ask is that I know nothing of him before his marriage. >> >>By 1815, with the baptism of his first child in Greenock, Renfrewshire (as >>with >>his other children) he was described as a Shipmaster. >>How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy >>and >>ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? >> >>Pam >> >> >>Quoting Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com>: >> >>> >>> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >>> might >>> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >>> >>> Prof. N.A.M. Rodger wrote in his book Naval Records for Genealogists >>> that Masters were the earliest warrant officers to rise in social and >>> professional standing and by 1808, were officially recognised as >>> Warrant Officers. >>> >>> I have noticed during later years in the 19th Century that Acting >>> Masters appear to have been appointed as such by the Admiralty, >>> usually from the rank of Second Master , and whilst some were then >>> promoted to Master others reverted back to Second Master at the end of >>> their appointment and may well have been promoted to Master at a later >>> date. I would also suspect that Flag Officers on foreign stations may >>> well have been able to promote Second Masters, but that confirmation >>> would be subject to other factors on the officer's return to England, >>> much as for Midshipmen promoted to Acting Lieutenants on foreign >>> stations. >>> >>> Regarding the documents for the FORWARD that have survived and are >>> held by the National Archives have written to Pam off-list. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:32:22 +0100, "Piers Smith-Cresswell" >>> <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> >There's some good stuff about HMS FORWARD (built 1805) at >>> >http://www.berwickshipyard.com/RoverForward.html . The Lt Banks >>> referred to >>> >was Hepburn's captain as per the 1814 Navy List. It would be >>> interesting to >>> >know when Hepburn joined the vessel and whether he was present for any >>> of >>> >the actions mentioned. The Navy not being my thing, others on the list >>> will >>> >know better where to look to see if any of the vessel's records have >>> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >>> might >>> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50? 33' N, 2? 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 11:01:08 +0100 > From: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>, "Mariners" > <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <FD1899A659C24CF591C23920BFDBA8DA@thesnowsPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Mick, > > Robert enlisted in the Royal Naval reserve in 1885. I have sent you a copy > of his service record > > He would have had experience of Sailing from work with his Father, Master > Robert Wilkinson on Colliers up and down the east coast of England. > > Robert Henry Wilkinson appears to have taken part in the America's Cup on > 1903, sailing on the Shamrock I, leaving from Greenock, Scotland in March > 1903, and I belive the yacht is private one, and Robert H was just doing > his day job as crew, as no mention of RNR ownership on record. > > I am waiting on a reply from Portsmouth archives for a newspaper look up, > and possibly need to visit West Sussex Archives, to see if there is > anything in newspapers there. > >>From the use of words "Supposed" and "On or About" it would suggest that >>the whole crew plus yacht may have been lost. > > Regards > > Klifton Snow > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mick > To: Mariners ; thesnows > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:21 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > > Hi Kliften > > I have checked the Board of trade wreck reports for 1905 and no vessel > with this name or description is reported in this area or any where around > the coast for this year ? . I also had a look at the Times Digital Archive > between 1900 to 1910 : nothing ? . > > A few questions, was this vessel a private yacht or did it belong to the > Naval Reserve ?. > If private she should appear in the Board of trade wreck reports and if > she was a Naval Vessel lost with loss of life you would think it would > make the papers. > > Can you add any other information which might aid a new search. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:31 PM > Subject: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. > > > Hello, > > I am trying to find out any information that anyone may have came > across regarding the sinking of the yacht "Nymph" on or around 26th March > 1905, of Selsey. > > My Great Great Uncle was called Robert Wilkinson, and his Royal Naval > Reserve record, states he " Drowned while serving on yacht "Nymph" which > is supposed to have been lost off Selsey on or about 26th March 1905" > > Regards > > Klifton Snow > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 12:56:57 +0100 > From: Ron Mapplebeck <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> > Subject: [MAR] THANKS FROM ADMIN > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4DEE1209.9000605@virgin.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Wow! After a couple of weeks in the doldrums, during which Mick and I > were rather concerned that things had gone very quiet, the List appears > to have awoken with a vengeance. That is good on all concerned, so our > thanks for this. > > It is also heartening that most recent postings have been about the > genealogy of mariners which, after all, is what the List was primarily > set up by Debbie and Ted to deal with. Even more so that these recent > enquiries have generated detailed and helpful replies from our various > "experts" on several different aspects of mariners and shipping. > > Congratulations and please keep up the good work. > > Ron Mapplebeck > Joint Administrator > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:43:24 +0100 > From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com>, "thesnows" > <thesnows@eircom.net> > Message-ID: <AA7C8A5EAD83419C9F39B11DCE2C70DD@westeire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Klifton > > I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses on, > I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . > The Info > > Nymph > Age about 10 years old > Not registered > Cutter / Yacht, Wooden > Crew : 3 > Tons : about 10 > Master : R.H.Williamson > Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea > Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast > Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. > > With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and > R.H.Wilkinson ?. > > I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , > may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . > > > Mick > > Mariners List > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:52:22 +0100 > From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com>, "thesnows" > <thesnows@eircom.net> > Message-ID: <6D6CBBEF9E7549D69E914EB8C70B42A1@westeire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Extract of Board Of Trade Wreck Reports with details of the Yacht Nymph. > Uploaded to the Gallery > http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6 > > Someone else on the List may have access to News Papers other then those I > have mentioned in previous posts. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 16:57:54 +0100 > From: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>, "Mariners" > <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <EE08AA571BA9454485352ACCA4E1D186@thesnowsPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Mick, > > Thank you very much for checking again. > > So the tone of the writing was right. I didn't realise so many ships where > "lost" at sea. > > I have emailed Portsmouth Archives, and had already placed a request on > the West Sussex rootsweb site, but it will probably have to be a visit in > person though to Chichester local studies. > > I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on > board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, > would you know. > > Would it also mean that it is likely there was no trace of the Yacht at > all, and this would mean not even on an admiralty chart as a wreck if the > place it sank was quite deep. > > Thanks again, > > Klifton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mick > To: Mariners ; thesnows > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > > Hi Klifton > > I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses > on, I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . > The Info > > Nymph > Age about 10 years old > Not registered > Cutter / Yacht, Wooden > Crew : 3 > Tons : about 10 > Master : R.H.Williamson > Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea > Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast > Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. > > With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and > R.H.Wilkinson ?. > > I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , > may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . > > > Mick > > Mariners List > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to > MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to > MARINERS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 166 > **************************************** >

Pam, Piers and Listers, To add another facet to the 'acting master' role, to quote the case of my relative Luke Brokenshaw; Luke passed his examination qualifying him to 'take charge of ships of the Second Rate' on May 30th 1811 in Trinity House, London . However, in a letter dated May 29th 1811 written by Rear Admiral of the White Sir Thomas Williams on board the First Rate ROYAL GEORGE, then at St Helens, to Sir Thomas Boulden Thompson, Comptroller of the Navy, Admiral Williams personally requested that Luke Brokenshaw be appointed Master of the ROYAL GEORGE with immediate effect, to supersede the existing master who had apparently made a serious error of sailing judgement and lost the confidence of the Admiral. The above documentation contained in ADM 6/138. Luke Brokenshaw was appointed to the ROYAL GEORGE with effect from May 31st. 1811 and duly appears in the Pay Book, ADM35/3801, as Acting Master with a note 'Acting having passed only for Second Rates'. Regards, Nigel Hughes ----- Original Message ----- From: <p.hislop@paradise.net.nz> To: "Piers Smith-Cresswell" <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> Cc: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Captain George HEPBURN > Piers, > > Wow! Thanks so very much for finding him :-) > Just proves - always search for the simplest and most evident fact first - > HEPBURN! > Would love to hear from anyone who can point me towards further > information on > this vessel (HMS FORWARD) and as Piers asked - would an 'acting master' be > promoted from within the ship's company? > > Pam

Hello Mick, Hopefully the newspapers will carry an article regarding what happened, with a bit more information given crew etc. It seems very likely he was misnamed, he had over 25 years experience, so likely to have been the Master. The weather seems to be okay on 25th/26th March, for the South Coast. I don't know how far out they would have sailed, obviously the farther out the deeper the sea bed, less chance of being seen if trouble perhaps, or a very quick sinking. Robert was from Portsmouth, so if I had to guess, I would say the 'Nymph' was based there. On the 1901 census he was listed on the "Portens No 5", moored in Cowes, IOW. It was listed as a Mud Barge, and Robert H was the Mate. Thanks Klifton Met Office National Meteorological Archive Southampton On 25th March 1905 the weather is described as being fair to fine until 3:00 pm, then drizzly". In the morning there was a moderate SW breeze , Force 3, by the afternoon this was SE Force 3.5. On 26th March it was a fine bright day with some cloudy intervals, in the morning was a moderate SW breeze, Force 3, SW Force 4 in the afternoon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners ; thesnows Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905. Hi Klifton This was a small pleasure craft with no registration number so its unlikely to turn up in any shipping records at the National Archives, but check every thing. Yes a newspaper article is possibly the place this info will be found, also check out web sites of Libraries in the area some have online access to local news papers this might save a visit or might help plan your visit better. May be some of the local Yacht Clubs keep a history of lost vessels if she sailed from Newhaven that might have been her home, check with Yacht Club websites. As to the numbers of vessels lost it often passed 2000 a year for Britain and Ireland alone. The possibility of a wreck remaining is nil, a small wooden vessel even if it did sink would break up in a short time, and as Paul explained in a previous post Vessels lost at sea often came ashore in bits over a wide area. Also I would not rule out the possibility that your man was the Master and the Wreck Report misnamed him, R.H.Williamson and R.H.Wilkinson looks suspect to me. Happy Hunting Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905.

Hi Klifton This was a small pleasure craft with no registration number so its unlikely to turn up in any shipping records at the National Archives, but check every thing. Yes a newspaper article is possibly the place this info will be found, also check out web sites of Libraries in the area some have online access to local news papers this might save a visit or might help plan your visit better. May be some of the local Yacht Clubs keep a history of lost vessels if she sailed from Newhaven that might have been her home, check with Yacht Club websites. As to the numbers of vessels lost it often passed 2000 a year for Britain and Ireland alone. The possibility of a wreck remaining is nil, a small wooden vessel even if it did sink would break up in a short time, and as Paul explained in a previous post Vessels lost at sea often came ashore in bits over a wide area. Also I would not rule out the possibility that your man was the Master and the Wreck Report misnamed him, R.H.Williamson and R.H.Wilkinson looks suspect to me. Happy Hunting Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905.

<I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on board?> I was recently in contact with MAR about my wife's ancestor, Samuel Mitchell, assumed drowned on the Lowestoft smack, Shells of the Ocean. On advice I looked at the National Archives site and found the Board of Trade document, BT 159 / 4 Return of Deaths at Sea, reported to the Register General of Shipping and Seamen under the provisions of the Merchant Shipping Act 1854. Our chap was May 1882. The record gave all five members of the crew, recorded consecutively under the name of the boat. The major disadvantage is that you can search by name of deceased or name of the boat, but both can be <it's good but it's not right>. And you have to pay to see the record, with no refunds if it isn't the boat that you wanted. I understand that Find My past has a deaths at sea index, but doesn't give the rest of the crew as readily. Graham (husband of Irene) ----- Original Message ----- From: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net> To: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>; "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905. > Hello Mick, > > Thank you very much for checking again. > > So the tone of the writing was right. I didn't realise so many ships where "lost" at sea. > > I have emailed Portsmouth Archives, and had already placed a request on the West Sussex rootsweb site, but it will probably have to be a visit in person though to Chichester local studies. > > I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, would you know. > > Would it also mean that it is likely there was no trace of the Yacht at all, and this would mean not even on an admiralty chart as a wreck if the place it sank was quite deep. > > Thanks again, > > Klifton >

Hi Peter I am afraid nothing much is known about George Bradshaw seagoing adventures. He married Agnes Russell in Sydney on 9 May 1853. The very early NSW Marr Certs did not allow for parents names. The witnesses were a James Cavanagh and George Paterson - perhaps they were shipmates of George's. His last daughter was born on 23 August 1861 so you could he say he stayed around from 1853 to early 1861 then he took off. George and Agnes moved to Victoria after their only son George was born in 1855. Three daughters were born in Emerald Hill, Victoria, and the last one in Sandys Creek, Victoria. I went through the Mariners and Ship in Australian Waters Index and there seemed to be many George Bradshaw's with ages ranging from 17 to 48 yrs old from 1856 to 1882 and none of them were Masters. Perhaps he took for Gt Britain and made sure never sail to back to Australia waters again. Shirlee Wellington, NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: D KLEIN To: Shirlee Cantwell Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London Hello Shirlee, You don't tell us much about George Bradshaw - such as when was he born, where he lived, or where he sailed from? Having said this, checking the Mercantile Navy Lists, starting in 1849, there was one certificated master mariner during the 1850s/60s, a George Jones Bradshaw, who was certificated No. 2612 at London as a Master 2nd Class in 1850. Some of his early ships are named: in 1851 he was listed 1st Mate on board the Indus of London, sailing from Southampton to the Med. In 1852 he was master of the Haddington, sailing from London to Southampton; and in 1853 master of the Norna of London, sailing from Southampton to Constantinople. He was still listed in 1864. Could this be your man? The only other George Bradshaw I can find listed at this time is a George William Bradshaw, certificated 22627 as 2nd Mate at London in 1860. I hope there might be something useful here, although these may well be the wrong men altogether. Regards, Peter Klein ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 6 June, 2011 21:04:37 Subject: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London I am new to this list. George BRADSHAW is my Great Great Grandfather and on the Victorian birth certiciate for the eldest two children he was stated he was a Master Mariner and Mariner. He deserted the family early in 1861 before my great grandmother was born. Have searched Ancestry and have found a seaman by the name of George Bradshaw who it could be. I thought I could trace him using the Family Search microfilm starting with the Alphabetical register of Seaman, 1835-1844--class BT119--index to Bt 112. Is this a good one to start with and what other microfilm could I search? Shirlee Wellington, NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Mick, Thank you very much for checking again. So the tone of the writing was right. I didn't realise so many ships where "lost" at sea. I have emailed Portsmouth Archives, and had already placed a request on the West Sussex rootsweb site, but it will probably have to be a visit in person though to Chichester local studies. I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, would you know. Would it also mean that it is likely there was no trace of the Yacht at all, and this would mean not even on an admiralty chart as a wreck if the place it sank was quite deep. Thanks again, Klifton ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners ; thesnows Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905. Hi Klifton I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses on, I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . The Info Nymph Age about 10 years old Not registered Cutter / Yacht, Wooden Crew : 3 Tons : about 10 Master : R.H.Williamson Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and R.H.Wilkinson ?. I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905.

Hello Carol,   Have you seen this page of Bridlington history? - three mentions of LAVINIA, one of Anthony Hindson and a description of the memorial in Bridlington churchyard. http://www.savebridlingtonhospital.co.uk/bridhistory/greatstorm.html   "In the churchyard at Bridlington a monument has been erected by public subscription, and placed near to where the bodies are interred, so as to perpetuate to future generations this melancholy story. The monument consists of four sides. The south side contains the names of those who lost their lives in the �Harbinger,' while nobly endeavouring to save those whose rest here, viz:- Robert Puckering, John Clappison, Richard Atkin, James Watson, David Purdon and William Cobb. On the east side is inscribed as follows:- �In lasting memory of a great company of seamen who perished in the fearful gale which swept over Bridlington Bay , on February 10 th , 1871 . The waves of the sea are mighty and rage horribly, but the Lord who dwelleth on high is mightier.� On the north side are the names of the vessels, viz:- �The Arrow,' of Sunderland; �Caroline,' of Whitby; �John', Whitstable; �Lavinia,' Seaham; �Delta,' Whitby; �Margaret', Ipswich; �Produce', Folkestone; �Terestz', Harwich; �William Maitland,' Whitby; and an unknown English schooner, were wrecked on the 10 th of February 1871, with loss of life, in Bridlington Bay. Thirteen other vessels were lost in the bay in the same gale.' On the west-side, �Forty-three bodies of those who on that day lost their lives lie in this churchyard, near this monument.� "   Here'[s another page with details of that gale: http://sprobson.f2s.com/t1871.html   Here's a link to an image of one side of that memorial: http://sprobson.f2s.com/img/t1871a.jpg    and another side: http://sprobson.f2s.com/img/t1871b.jpg   LAVINIA is named on this side: http://sprobson.f2s.com/img/t1871c.jpg   and here's the fourth side: http://sprobson.f2s.com/img/t1871d.jpg   and here's the whole: http://www.rebus.demon.co.uk/biogs/sailmem1.jpg     The webpage whence came the image of the whole is about David Purdon, who died attempting to rescue men in that gale and there is a list of sources at the bottom of the page. You might find a bit more about Anthony Hindson in those sources.   Regards, Adi

Extract of Board Of Trade Wreck Reports with details of the Yacht Nymph. Uploaded to the Gallery http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6 Someone else on the List may have access to News Papers other then those I have mentioned in previous posts. Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905.

Thank you so very, very much Paul. This is great information. No matter how many answers you find you always have more questions. Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a certain social class to have obtained these positions in the Royal Navy? The reason I ask is that I know nothing of him before his marriage. By 1815, with the baptism of his first child in Greenock, Renfrewshire (as with his other children) he was described as a Shipmaster. How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy and ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? Pam Quoting Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com>: > > >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" > might > >have been promoted from within the ship's company? > > Prof. N.A.M. Rodger wrote in his book Naval Records for Genealogists > that Masters were the earliest warrant officers to rise in social and > professional standing and by 1808, were officially recognised as > Warrant Officers. > > I have noticed during later years in the 19th Century that Acting > Masters appear to have been appointed as such by the Admiralty, > usually from the rank of Second Master , and whilst some were then > promoted to Master others reverted back to Second Master at the end of > their appointment and may well have been promoted to Master at a later > date. I would also suspect that Flag Officers on foreign stations may > well have been able to promote Second Masters, but that confirmation > would be subject to other factors on the officer's return to England, > much as for Midshipmen promoted to Acting Lieutenants on foreign > stations. > > Regarding the documents for the FORWARD that have survived and are > held by the National Archives have written to Pam off-list. > > Paul > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:32:22 +0100, "Piers Smith-Cresswell" > <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >There's some good stuff about HMS FORWARD (built 1805) at > >http://www.berwickshipyard.com/RoverForward.html . The Lt Banks > referred to > >was Hepburn's captain as per the 1814 Navy List. It would be > interesting to > >know when Hepburn joined the vessel and whether he was present for any > of > >the actions mentioned. The Navy not being my thing, others on the list > will > >know better where to look to see if any of the vessel's records have > >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" > might > >have been promoted from within the ship's company? > > > > > > > > >

Hi Klifton I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses on, I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . The Info Nymph Age about 10 years old Not registered Cutter / Yacht, Wooden Crew : 3 Tons : about 10 Master : R.H.Williamson Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and R.H.Wilkinson ?. I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: thesnows To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th March 1905.