... and from the Ships In Focus book The Ben Line by Graeme Somner (presumably repeating details also recorded in his previous booklets under the same title for the World Ship Society), owners of the CARRARA from 1847 became N. Smith, Aberdeen, who immediately resold her to R. Donald, Aberdeen. The next year sold to Adam and Co., Aberdeen, and engaged in the Mediterranean trade, passing in December 1853 to W. Mechin of Shoreham, Sussex. As you know she was still under the same name when she foundered 30 miles off Queenstown on 19 March 1867. She had been completed in August 1839 by John Millar, Brucehaven, Fife (so is Brucehaven the same location as Limekilns?). She was delivered specifically to carry coal and woolen goods from Leith to Leghorn in Italy, and returning with marble for the Thomson main family business of the time to be used in constructing new houses. Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 12/06/2011 20:54, Mick wrote: > I see The Carrara has a little more history then I expected, she was > the first vessel owned by Alexander and William Thomson of The Ben > Line. > > http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/ben.htm > > Snippet View from google Books gives me the following > > The Ben Line: the history of Wm. Thomson& Co. of Leith and > Edinburgh George Blake - 1956 - 222 pages - Snippet view In 1839 they > contrived to find sufficient finance for the building, at Limekilns > in Fife, of the barque Carrara. She was a tubby little thing, only 88 > feet long and so broad in the beam that her registered tonnage was > 218............. > > Sea Breezes: the ship lovers' digest: Volume 50 Pacific Steam > Navigation Company - 1976 - Snippet view ... 135 years and 164 ships > ago, Alexander and William Thomson acquired their first ship, a tiny > 88-foot barque, Carrara. > > > Her Loss was not reported in the News Papers, I found a report of a > reward given to the Master of the Chanticleer for Rescuing the Crew > (8) of the Carrara abandoned off Kinsale on the 19/03/1867. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > > > Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners Sent: Saturday, June > 11, 2011 10:52 PM Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place > Names > > > Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register > Abbreviation. > > I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built > in 1839 at LMKLN ? > > > Mick > > Mariners List > >

I see The Carrara has a little more history then I expected, she was the first vessel owned by Alexander and William Thomson of The Ben Line. http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/ben.htm Snippet View from google Books gives me the following The Ben Line: the history of Wm. Thomson & Co. of Leith and Edinburgh George Blake - 1956 - 222 pages - Snippet view In 1839 they contrived to find sufficient finance for the building, at Limekilns in Fife, of the barque Carrara. She was a tubby little thing, only 88 feet long and so broad in the beam that her registered tonnage was 218............. Sea Breezes: the ship lovers' digest: Volume 50 Pacific Steam Navigation Company - 1976 - Snippet view ... 135 years and 164 ships ago, Alexander and William Thomson acquired their first ship, a tiny 88-foot barque, Carrara. Her Loss was not reported in the News Papers, I found a report of a reward given to the Master of the Chanticleer for Rescuing the Crew (8) of the Carrara abandoned off Kinsale on the 19/03/1867. Mick Mariners List Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 10:52 PM Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David, Thank you very much for the information on NORNA [1868],it is much appreciated. Regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Asprey" <dasprey@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] ironships Limari & Norna > on 10 Jun 2011 Mick wrote > > I will take Norna from 1887, Ted found Wm Latham as the owner in 1887. > The MNL 1890 lists the owners as managing owner Wm Letham 29 Cathcart > Street > Greenock and includes Walter C Boak Halifax N.S. > MNL 1892 up to 1899 Owner, Norna Ship Co Ltd, 29 Cathcart Street Greenock > and includes Jas. Rae 14 Water Street Liverpool. > MNL 1899 up to 1920 Owners, Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co, 85 London > Wall, City London and includes the name E.S.Hodgson. > BT 110 gives no detail except that her register was closed in 1924. > The next MNL after 1920 I have access to is 1925. > I have checked Lloyds Causality Lists for 1923 and 1924 she is not in > there. >>>>>>>>>> > > The last owner caught my eye. There is a short note in K R Haigh's "Cable > Ships and Submarine Cables" that NORNA was a sailing vessel which was > relegated to a cable storage hulk at Pernambuco; she was scrapped in 1924. > > It is possible that there is a photograph of her in the Cable & Wireless > archives at the Porthcurno Telegraph Museum in Cornwall. The catalogue at > <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=2064-cwa_4&cid=-1&G > sm=2008-06-18#-1> > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=2064-cwa_4&cid=-1&Gs > m=2008-06-18#-1 shows two entries for NORNA, both of which are a little > odd: > > <Norna ( 1 ) Hulk circa 1840 PHO///425 1840 c. (photo)> "1840" is very > odd since it is far too early for any cable ship, hulk or otherwise > <C.S.Norseman & C.S. Norna DOC//14/14 1976 November 29 (2 Paper / > Photos)> > Again, "1976" is odd as these ships had by then long gone. > > But it could well be that this is not the right NORNA. When the 1868 > NORNA > was scrapped in 1924, the Western Telegraph Company (which since 1900 had > owned the Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co) replaced her as their storage > hulk at Pernambuco by their cable ship NORSEMAN ex-MIRROR of 1886, > renaming > her NORNA. At the same time they had their fourth and last NORSEMAN built > by John Brown at Clydebank. This NORNA (2) was scrapped in 1933, and > NORSEMAN (4) in 1964. So the photos could be of the later pair. > > It may well be worth asking the Museum whether the images of NORNA are of > a > sailing ship or a steamship. Contact email here: > <http://www.porthcurno.org.uk/page.php?id=60> > http://www.porthcurno.org.uk/page.php?id=60 > > I assume that the comment about BT 110 is referring to the National > Archives > catalogue. The documents themselves, in box BT 110/583, should show her > ownership and registration history in detail, including all registered > owners and the dates of the bills of sale between them. > > David > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Mick. I also noticed that not only did John Miller have difficulties, but James Whyte, the shipbuilder in neighbouring Charlestown, also had his property sequestrated in 1842. I'm not so sure about this being merely a rough patch though, it sounds more as if local shipbuilding was in terminal decline. In 1862 there were still 33 ship owners and masters in Limekilns, but not a single shipyard was to be found in the area. What with the proximity of Rosyth and Dunfermline, if it hasn't been done already, there may well be an interesting story to be told here. Limekilns-built vessels (albeit modestly) pepper the pages in Lloyd's Registers, and it would be relatively easy to compile a list. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, 12 June, 2011 13:50:31 Subject: Re: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Thanks Peter and Bob Looks like J.Miller could have built the Carrara, Peters post prompted me to google shipbuilding + Limekilns, I found a story on the shipwrights of Limekilns building a roof for the new Church. The Carrara was a Barque of 218 nrt a sizable vessel this would indicate that shipbuilding was well established in the Area. Thanks to Bob for the pictures. http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23 For the last few mounths I have been researching shipwrecks (Ireland) for 1867 I am now at March, the wreck reports for 1867 only list a small number and the papers are scant on info, so its an up hill struggle. When I get to the end of March I will be able to at least double the number of wrecks already listed in other sources for this period so its exciting to be uncovering new information. A number of vessels were abandoned or foundered off the South West coast between the 12th and 20th of March a large number of vessels had been trapped in this area by S/E Gales for up to three weeks. If any one has access to Lloyds List for this period from the 10th to the 25th of March 1867 a look up would be a great help. I all ready have info from MNL 1867-68, Lloyds Register, and at least a snippit from a news paper if anyone can add any more it would be much appreciated. The list of vessels on am working on now are as follows. Achillies Aigle, French Atalanta , Hartlepool ? Belem Carrara Charles Souchay Confidence, American Diasma French Florida Steamer Frederick, Bremen Harmony Harriet, Austrian Helen Indomitable Jane Maitland Mary Naiad Pellicano, Italian Pencalenick Pollux, Christiania Saruna Or Serivo ? Sylph Tuscana, Italian Utopia Wild Horse, Canadian William Osprey. Thanks Mick Mariners List . ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2011 22:52:36 Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks, Mike. I also noticed that not only did John Miller have difficulties, but James Whyte, the shipbuilder in neighbouring Charlestown, also had his property sequestrated in 1842. I'm not so sure about this being merely a rough patch though, it sounds more as if local shipbuilding was in terminal decline. In 1862 there were still 33 ship owners and masters in Limekilns, but not a single shipyard was to be found in the area. What with the proximity of Rosyth and Dunfermline, if it hasn't been done already, there may well be an interesting story to be told here. Limekilns-built vessels (albeit modestly) pepper the pages in Lloyd's Registers, and it would be relatively easy to compile a list. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, 12 June, 2011 13:50:31 Subject: Re: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Thanks Peter and Bob Looks like J.Miller could have built the Carrara, Peters post prompted me to google shipbuilding + Limekilns, I found a story on the shipwrights of Limekilns building a roof for the new Church. The Carrara was a Barque of 218 nrt a sizable vessel this would indicate that shipbuilding was well established in the Area. Thanks to Bob for the pictures. http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23 For the last few mounths I have been researching shipwrecks (Ireland) for 1867 I am now at March, the wreck reports for 1867 only list a small number and the papers are scant on info, so its an up hill struggle. When I get to the end of March I will be able to at least double the number of wrecks already listed in other sources for this period so its exciting to be uncovering new information. A number of vessels were abandoned or foundered off the South West coast between the 12th and 20th of March a large number of vessels had been trapped in this area by S/E Gales for up to three weeks. If any one has access to Lloyds List for this period from the 10th to the 25th of March 1867 a look up would be a great help. I all ready have info from MNL 1867-68, Lloyds Register, and at least a snippit from a news paper if anyone can add any more it would be much appreciated. The list of vessels on am working on now are as follows. Achillies Aigle, French Atalanta , Hartlepool ? Belem Carrara Charles Souchay Confidence, American Diasma French Florida Steamer Frederick, Bremen Harmony Harriet, Austrian Helen Indomitable Jane Maitland Mary Naiad Pellicano, Italian Pencalenick Pollux, Christiania Saruna Or Serivo ? Sylph Tuscana, Italian Utopia Wild Horse, Canadian William Osprey. Thanks Mick Mariners List . ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2011 22:52:36 Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Peter and Bob Looks like J.Miller could have built the Carrara, Peters post prompted me to google shipbuilding + Limekilns, I found a story on the shipwrights of Limekilns building a roof for the new Church. The Carrara was a Barque of 218 nrt a sizable vessel this would indicate that shipbuilding was well established in the Area. Thanks to Bob for the pictures. http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=23 For the last few mounths I have been researching shipwrecks (Ireland) for 1867 I am now at March, the wreck reports for 1867 only list a small number and the papers are scant on info, so its an up hill struggle. When I get to the end of March I will be able to at least double the number of wrecks already listed in other sources for this period so its exciting to be uncovering new information. A number of vessels were abandoned or foundered off the South West coast between the 12th and 20th of March a large number of vessels had been trapped in this area by S/E Gales for up to three weeks. If any one has access to Lloyds List for this period from the 10th to the 25th of March 1867 a look up would be a great help. I all ready have info from MNL 1867-68, Lloyds Register, and at least a snippit from a news paper if anyone can add any more it would be much appreciated. The list of vessels on am working on now are as follows. Achillies Aigle, French Atalanta , Hartlepool ? Belem Carrara Charles Souchay Confidence, American Diasma French Florida Steamer Frederick, Bremen Harmony Harriet, Austrian Helen Indomitable Jane Maitland Mary Naiad Pellicano, Italian Pencalenick Pollux, Christiania Saruna Or Serivo ? Sylph Tuscana, Italian Utopia Wild Horse, Canadian William Osprey. Thanks Mick Mariners List . ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2011 22:52:36 Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List

Hi Mick, Further to my last, written late at night, I can confirm that Lewis' Topographical Dictionary of Scotland of 1846 is the source for the statement that at Limekilns shipbuilding was "carried on to a moderate extent". Pigot's Directory of Scotland for 1837 notes two shipbuilders in the area - John Miller at Limekilns, and James Whyte at Charlestown. Miller was a certainly well established by 1828, and was a subscriber to Peter Hedderwick's Treatise on Marine Architecture in 1830; but in 1842 his property was seized under Scottish sequestration laws, presumably to settle his debts, and the shipbuilding industry at Limekilns may well have been in difficulties. Kind regards, PK ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2011 22:52:36 Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ooops! Now I look again, the wrong side of Scotland - the Forth, not the Clyde! Sorry about that! PS. You've thanked Bob Baird on the List but without his original message appearing thereon - perhaps he provided the definitive answer? Ron **** On 11/06/2011 23:29, Ron Mapplebeck wrote: > Mick, > > Could be Limekilns in Scotland (Clyde). > See: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/limekilns/limekilns/index.html > where historic shipbuilding is mentioned. > > Ron > **** > On 11/06/2011 22:52, Mick wrote: >> Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. >> >> I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? >> >> >> Mick >> >> Mariners List >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Mick, In some editions of the Registers the place of build is given variously as "Lmkln" or "LmKils". Most vessels with this place of building appear to be registered in Scotland, and I am wondering whether this is not Limekilns, Fifeshire, on the shore of the Firth of Forth. In 1846 a contemporary book, sounds like Lewis's Topographical Dictionary, noted that: "Ship-building, and the curing of fish, are also carried on to a moderate extent". Kind regards, Peter Klein ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 11 June, 2011 22:52:36 Subject: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Bob Mick O Rourke Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Baird To: Mick Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Lloyds Register Abbreviated Place Names

Mick, Could be Limekilns in Scotland (Clyde). See: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/limekilns/limekilns/index.html where historic shipbuilding is mentioned. Ron **** On 11/06/2011 22:52, Mick wrote: > Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. > > I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? > > > Mick > > Mariners List > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Could SKS put a place name to this " LMKLN " Lloyds Register Abbreviation. I an researching The Barque Carrara, registered in Shoreham and Built in 1839 at LMKLN ? Mick Mariners List

> Hi Ted & Mick, > Thank you very much for the info on NORNA it looks > like,with your help, i have all the details for this ship now and i can > finally finish her story. > This list is amazing, > Thank`s, > Joe. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ted Finch" <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> > To: "Joe McMillan" <joemac@internode.on.net> > Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 12:00 AM > Subject: Fw: Cable Research Material - Norna (1) > > >> Joe, >> >> Have just received this - hope it helps - Ted >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill Burns" <billb@ftldesign.com> >> To: "Ted Finch" <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> >> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 3:05 PM >> Subject: Re: Cable Research Material - Norna (1) >> >> >>> >>> On 6/10/2011 9:04 AM, Ted Finch wrote: >>>> I note that you mention Norna (2) on your website. Do you by any chance >>>> have any details or fate of Norna (1) which was apparently owned by >>>> Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co from 1899 until c.1920? >>> >>> Ted: My main reference for cableship information is K.R. Haigh's book >>> "Cableships and Submarine Cables", published in 1978. The only >>> information he gives is "This ship was a sailing vessel which was >>> relegated to a cable storage hulk at Pernambuco; she was scrapped in >>> 1924". From the dates, it looks like Norna (2) took over the cable hulk >>> duties at Pernambuco when Norna (1) was scrapped. >>> >>> Hope this helps! >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Bill >>> -- >>> Bill Burns >>> Long Island NY USA >>> http://ftldesign.com >>> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3692 - Release Date: 06/10/11 >> 06:34:00 >> >> >> >

on 10 Jun 2011 Mick wrote I will take Norna from 1887, Ted found Wm Latham as the owner in 1887. The MNL 1890 lists the owners as managing owner Wm Letham 29 Cathcart Street Greenock and includes Walter C Boak Halifax N.S. MNL 1892 up to 1899 Owner, Norna Ship Co Ltd, 29 Cathcart Street Greenock and includes Jas. Rae 14 Water Street Liverpool. MNL 1899 up to 1920 Owners, Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co, 85 London Wall, City London and includes the name E.S.Hodgson. BT 110 gives no detail except that her register was closed in 1924. The next MNL after 1920 I have access to is 1925. I have checked Lloyds Causality Lists for 1923 and 1924 she is not in there. >>>>>>>>> The last owner caught my eye. There is a short note in K R Haigh's "Cable Ships and Submarine Cables" that NORNA was a sailing vessel which was relegated to a cable storage hulk at Pernambuco; she was scrapped in 1924. It is possible that there is a photograph of her in the Cable & Wireless archives at the Porthcurno Telegraph Museum in Cornwall. The catalogue at <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=2064-cwa_4&cid=-1&G sm=2008-06-18#-1> http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=2064-cwa_4&cid=-1&Gs m=2008-06-18#-1 shows two entries for NORNA, both of which are a little odd: <Norna ( 1 ) Hulk circa 1840 PHO///425 1840 c. (photo)> "1840" is very odd since it is far too early for any cable ship, hulk or otherwise <C.S.Norseman & C.S. Norna DOC//14/14 1976 November 29 (2 Paper / Photos)> Again, "1976" is odd as these ships had by then long gone. But it could well be that this is not the right NORNA. When the 1868 NORNA was scrapped in 1924, the Western Telegraph Company (which since 1900 had owned the Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co) replaced her as their storage hulk at Pernambuco by their cable ship NORSEMAN ex-MIRROR of 1886, renaming her NORNA. At the same time they had their fourth and last NORSEMAN built by John Brown at Clydebank. This NORNA (2) was scrapped in 1933, and NORSEMAN (4) in 1964. So the photos could be of the later pair. It may well be worth asking the Museum whether the images of NORNA are of a sailing ship or a steamship. Contact email here: <http://www.porthcurno.org.uk/page.php?id=60> http://www.porthcurno.org.uk/page.php?id=60 I assume that the comment about BT 110 is referring to the National Archives catalogue. The documents themselves, in box BT 110/583, should show her ownership and registration history in detail, including all registered owners and the dates of the bills of sale between them. David

Hi Ted.Mick & Ted, Thank you very much for the information on my two sailing ships. It is very difficult to trace some of these older vessels so your assistance has been most welcome. If i can only find out what became of Norna that would close the book on them. The Bruzelius site gives a fairly full account of the career & fate of the Limari,so thank`s for that link. Mick,on the Bruzelius site the name of the Swedish owners is given as Ferdinand Natterqvist of Henrosand. Thank`s for all of your help and if you find anything else on NORNA please pass it along. Cheers, Joe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 5:39 AM Subject: [MAR] Fw: ironships Limari & Norna > Forward on behalf of Ted > > Hi Joe, > > Norna (1868) O.N.62074 is listed in 1880 registers as owned by Hendry, > Ferguson & Co, Greenock (Master Watt), 1883 Master W. Reid, 1887 owner > became Wm. Latham, Greenock, 1895 Master J. Lochead.until 1899 but have > no record after this date. According to CLIP her register closed in 1924. > > Both ships are listed in American Ship registers at > http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/VMSearch2.cfm > > History of Limari at > http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Merchant/Sail/L/Limari(1867).html > > Regards > > Ted > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joe I will take Norna from 1887, Ted found Wm Latham as the owner in 1887. The MNL 1890 lists the owners as managing owner Wm Letham 29 Cathcart Street Greenock and includes Walter C Boak Halifax N.S. MNL 1892 up to 1899 Owner, Norna Ship Co Ltd, 29 Cathcart Street Greenock and includes Jas. Rae 14 Water Street Liverpool. MNL 1899 up to 1920 Owners, Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co, 85 London Wall, City London and includes the name E.S.Hodgson. BT 110 gives no detail except that her register was closed in 1924. The next MNL after 1920 I have access to is 1925. I have checked Lloyds Causality Lists for 1923 and 1924 she is not in there. Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe McMillan To: Mick ; Mariners Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Fw: ironships Limari & Norna

The MN 1923 listing is the same as the 1920 one. John -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 8:41 AM To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MAR] ironships Limari & Norna > Hi Joe > > I will take Norna from 1887, Ted found Wm Latham as the owner in 1887. > > The MNL 1890 lists the owners as managing owner Wm Letham 29 Cathcart > Street Greenock and includes Walter C Boak Halifax N.S. > > MNL 1892 up to 1899 Owner, Norna Ship Co Ltd, 29 Cathcart Street Greenock > and includes Jas. Rae 14 Water Street Liverpool. > > MNL 1899 up to 1920 Owners, Western & Brazilian Telegraph Co, 85 London > Wall, City London and includes the name E.S.Hodgson. > > BT 110 gives no detail except that her register was closed in 1924. > > The next MNL after 1920 I have access to is 1925. > > I have checked Lloyds Causality Lists for 1923 and 1924 she is not in > there. > > > Mick > > Mariners List > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe McMillan > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] Fw: ironships Limari & Norna > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Forward on behalf of Ted Hi Joe, Norna (1868) O.N.62074 is listed in 1880 registers as owned by Hendry, Ferguson & Co, Greenock (Master Watt), 1883 Master W. Reid, 1887 owner became Wm. Latham, Greenock, 1895 Master J. Lochead.until 1899 but have no record after this date. According to CLIP her register closed in 1924. Both ships are listed in American Ship registers at http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/VMSearch2.cfm History of Limari at http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Merchant/Sail/L/Limari(1867).html Regards Ted

Hi Joe Second One Norna, O.N 62074 Built by Barclay Curle & Co and launched October 1868 Ship Rigged 1050 NTR. Dim = 218.5- 34.8, depth of hold 21.0 MNL 1870 62074 Norna, registered in Greenock, Owner John Hendry Greenock Register was closed 1924. http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsalpha.php You can follow her history and registration detail using the built in viewer for the Mercantile Navy Lists on the Clip web site. Some Mercantile Navy Lists are also available to view from the Australian National Maritime Museum site but its very slow to load up. http://anmm.smedia.com.au/olive/am3/anmm8/ The MNL will give the name of the Managing Owner and not the Company Name. Mick O Rourke Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe McMillan To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:40 AM Subject: [MAR] ironships Limari & Norna

Hi Joe First One Limari - O.N 60030 . 599 Nrt Iron Barque, 175.4- 27.8- depth of hold 18.8 built 1867. 60030 Limari Reg Liverpool Dec 1867 MNL 1870 Reg Liverpool owner Samuel Lowden Whitehaven MNL 1880 Reg Liverpool owner William Lowden 16 Castle Street Liverpool http://www.crewlist.org.uk Maritime History Archive hold crew lists for most years up to 1887 http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=60030 Lloyds Reg 1883 Registered in Liverpool owner Lowden & Edgar Bruce lists her as Built for T.Connel Whitehaven, J.Connel was master in 83 and may have been a share holder, she was never registered in Whitehaven. She was not included the MNL 1888 She turns up in Lloyds Reg 1887 Owner Lever & Murphy and Co, Registered in Valparaiso 1896 sold to AFN ?tterqvist Heron?sand Sweden She is listed in Lloyds with this owner up to 1899 , I lost track of her after that. I will send a page off list from Lloyds Reg 1899 and you may be able to make out the last owners name. Mick O Rourke Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe McMillan To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 5:40 AM Subject: [MAR] ironships Limari & Norna