Dear List,   I am looking for any information that might be available on a ship owner/merchant named Mulreany.  They operated between the West coast of Ireland (Donegal Bay), and France, Northern Spain and Portugal.  They shipped wines and spirit and other commodities to Ireland around the late 1700 to early 1850. I understand from family stories that the Captain of one of the ships was a Scott named Bennett.  Any information would be much appreciated.    Thank you and best regards, Seán Tapley

Rhonda Only a passing observation......arriving at Motherbank would suggest that the ARAB had been put in quarantine on her arrival off Ryde, Isle of Wight. The Motherbank was used for vessels either arriving from ports that were the subject of say cholera or plague or something similar or had someone on board who it was thought may be ill from a contagious disease. Paul On Sat, 9 Jul 2011 21:35:33 -0400, Rhonda Staskow <rhonda.staskow@gmail.com> wrote: >I made an error in the last item for the first barque ARAB. It arrived at >Motherbank from Singapore on June 3 1873. If anyone has any further >information about this arrival, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. > >Regards Rhonda > >On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Rhonda Staskow <rhonda.staskow@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Hi - >> >> Indeed there are many barques named "Arab." While it appears that the 1882 >> voyages were linked to the 1880 vessel built in Apenrade, my original >> research began with the Arab built by Johann Heinrich David Reimer, my G-G-G >> grandfather, also in Apenrade. I have traced many of its voyages from 1859 >> to 1873 with much of the time spent in the Far East trade with Captains >> Bruhn and Holst and possibly Bang. The information has the ship listed out >> of register around Aug 1873 but I am not sure what happened to it. The last >> record I have is the arrival in Singapore, Captain Bang on June 3 1873. >> >> >> The 2nd Arab, Captain Moos, I track from 1881 when it arrived 11 Nov in HK >> from Chefoo. Then I have the trip to Manila. >> >> There is a story from 1883 in Google Books dated around 20 October - as >> follows >> >> From the Life-Boat Journal >> At about 3 A.M. on the 20th of October large flares were seen in the >> direction of the Middle Cross Sand, and >> guns and rockets were fired by the Cockle and St. Nicholas lightships. The >> Caister No. 1. Life-boat Covent Garden was launched, and found the barque >> Arab, in ballast from London to Newcastle with a crew of fifteen men, lying >> to in the centre of the Middle Cross Sand. The Life-boat let go her anchor, >> veered down, and with great difficulty boarded her. The master requested the >> Life-boatmen to try to get the vessel off, and this having been successfully >> accomplished, a steam-tug was engaged to tow her into Yarmouth harbour. The >> wind was blowing fresh from the SW by W and there was a nasty sea on the >> sand. Listed as Barque Arab of Apenrade. There were 15 on board. >> >> Rhonda >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Ron Mapplebeck < >> ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> wrote: >> >>> I've retitled this message as it does seem quite likely we are here >>> dealing with two different vessels with the same name. >>> >>> From Miramar I have the basic history of the steamer ARAB mentioned by >>> Adi. >>> Launched 23.1.1879 by J.& G.Thomson, Clydebank, and completed 3.5.1879 >>> (3 May). >>> 3170 gross tons, length 106.7 metres (350.0 feet according to 1897 >>> Lloyd's Register) >>> Arrived Hamburg August 1900 to be broken up. >>> >>> The barque ARAB was 541 gross tons, completed at Apenrade in August 1880 >>> for J. Mathiesen. What was her career/fate? >>> >>> That sent me off looking for Apenrade! Now Abenra (Aabenraa) in Denmark, >>> but then Apenrade in Prussia! >>> >>> Ron Mapplebeck (UK) >>> **** >>> On 07/07/2011 14:40, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: >>> > Hello Paxie, >>> > >>> > Are you sure it is this German/Prussian barque ARAB? I suspect that >>> > it might have been the Union Steamship Company (Limited) >>> > intermediate steamer ARAB, Captain Tyson, which left Southampton >>> > Sat., 26 January, 1895 with passengers, mails and cargo for Lisbon, >>> > Teneriffe and Cape of Good Hope. Can you give any further >>> > information?, more specific dates? was SWS passenger or crew? >>> > >>> > Regards, Adi >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Wed, 7/6/11, Paxie Kelsey<paxie@telkomsa.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > Hi there Is there anyone who could tell me a more complete history >>> > of this barque ... I have a Stephen William SMITH who sailed on the >>> > Arab from England to the Cape in 1895. Many thanks Paxie ----- >>> > Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: Rhonda Staskow ; >>> > mariners@rootsweb.com >>> > >>> > Hello Rhonda, >>> > >>> > According to American Lloyds Register, the Master's name in 1882 was >>> > Moos. >>> > >>> > regards Ted >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please >>> > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> > message >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

I'm trying to find some info on Frederick William SLADE'S naval career   He was born 1787 at Aston Upthorpe, Berkshire In 1822 he arrived in Tasmania with his sister and her family, returning to England 1824 He married 1830 at Reading Berkshire Arrived West Australia 1840 with his sister and died 1850 West Australia    >From 1822 newspaper clippings name him as Lt, F. W. SLADE, R.N. from what I can gather he was dixscharged from the Royal Navy by 1822   Helen

I made an error in the last item for the first barque ARAB. It arrived at Motherbank from Singapore on June 3 1873. If anyone has any further information about this arrival, it would be much appreciated. Thanks. Regards Rhonda On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:32 AM, Rhonda Staskow <rhonda.staskow@gmail.com>wrote: > Hi - > > Indeed there are many barques named "Arab." While it appears that the 1882 > voyages were linked to the 1880 vessel built in Apenrade, my original > research began with the Arab built by Johann Heinrich David Reimer, my G-G-G > grandfather, also in Apenrade. I have traced many of its voyages from 1859 > to 1873 with much of the time spent in the Far East trade with Captains > Bruhn and Holst and possibly Bang. The information has the ship listed out > of register around Aug 1873 but I am not sure what happened to it. The last > record I have is the arrival in Singapore, Captain Bang on June 3 1873. > > > The 2nd Arab, Captain Moos, I track from 1881 when it arrived 11 Nov in HK > from Chefoo. Then I have the trip to Manila. > > There is a story from 1883 in Google Books dated around 20 October - as > follows > > From the Life-Boat Journal > At about 3 A.M. on the 20th of October large flares were seen in the > direction of the Middle Cross Sand, and > guns and rockets were fired by the Cockle and St. Nicholas lightships. The > Caister No. 1. Life-boat Covent Garden was launched, and found the barque > Arab, in ballast from London to Newcastle with a crew of fifteen men, lying > to in the centre of the Middle Cross Sand. The Life-boat let go her anchor, > veered down, and with great difficulty boarded her. The master requested the > Life-boatmen to try to get the vessel off, and this having been successfully > accomplished, a steam-tug was engaged to tow her into Yarmouth harbour. The > wind was blowing fresh from the SW by W and there was a nasty sea on the > sand. Listed as Barque Arab of Apenrade. There were 15 on board. > > Rhonda > > > On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Ron Mapplebeck < > ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> wrote: > >> I've retitled this message as it does seem quite likely we are here >> dealing with two different vessels with the same name. >> >> From Miramar I have the basic history of the steamer ARAB mentioned by >> Adi. >> Launched 23.1.1879 by J.& G.Thomson, Clydebank, and completed 3.5.1879 >> (3 May). >> 3170 gross tons, length 106.7 metres (350.0 feet according to 1897 >> Lloyd's Register) >> Arrived Hamburg August 1900 to be broken up. >> >> The barque ARAB was 541 gross tons, completed at Apenrade in August 1880 >> for J. Mathiesen. What was her career/fate? >> >> That sent me off looking for Apenrade! Now Abenra (Aabenraa) in Denmark, >> but then Apenrade in Prussia! >> >> Ron Mapplebeck (UK) >> **** >> On 07/07/2011 14:40, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: >> > Hello Paxie, >> > >> > Are you sure it is this German/Prussian barque ARAB? I suspect that >> > it might have been the Union Steamship Company (Limited) >> > intermediate steamer ARAB, Captain Tyson, which left Southampton >> > Sat., 26 January, 1895 with passengers, mails and cargo for Lisbon, >> > Teneriffe and Cape of Good Hope. Can you give any further >> > information?, more specific dates? was SWS passenger or crew? >> > >> > Regards, Adi >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Wed, 7/6/11, Paxie Kelsey<paxie@telkomsa.net> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Hi there Is there anyone who could tell me a more complete history >> > of this barque ... I have a Stephen William SMITH who sailed on the >> > Arab from England to the Cape in 1895. Many thanks Paxie ----- >> > Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: Rhonda Staskow ; >> > mariners@rootsweb.com >> > >> > Hello Rhonda, >> > >> > According to American Lloyds Register, the Master's name in 1882 was >> > Moos. >> > >> > regards Ted >> > >> > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please >> > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Colin, How about timers for munitions? Rod At 08:00 09/07/2011, you wrote: >If the CHASSERAL was carrying only clocks and watches what sort of >quantities are we talking about to make up a worthwhile cargo ? I think >that there is more to this than meets the eye given that Lisbon was the >centre for espionage used by all combatants and that by this time in >World War II many on the Axis side knew what was looming on their >immediate horizon. What (or who) else was she carrying ? Possibly also >bearing in mind that Vichy only had four more months before the German >occupation. > >Regards >Colin RSVP. Please support the St.George Foundation: www.adecentlife.org

Hello Rhonda and Ron Many thanks for your input ... for a moment I thought I had lost my document with what SW Smith said in his letter dated Aug 13th 1895. He says he came on the "Arab" some two months ago ... so I would say that was about May or early June ..... He states something which I cannot quite read and maybe it's of note here ... "I notice in the gazette that you are advertising for one SW Smith of Egypt & "....... " maybe Luclia .... Anyway .. .perhaps you know more about which "Arab" I am looking for now. Kind regards Paxie ----- Original Message ----- From: Rhonda Staskow To: Ron Mapplebeck Cc: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] VESSELS NAMED "ARAB" was Re: Barque Arab Hi - Indeed there are many barques named "Arab." While it appears that the 1882 voyages were linked to the 1880 vessel built in Apenrade, my original research began with the Arab built by Johann Heinrich David Reimer, my G-G-G grandfather, also in Apenrade. I have traced many of its voyages from 1859 to 1873 with much of the time spent in the Far East trade with Captains Bruhn and Holst and possibly Bang. The information has the ship listed out of register around Aug 1873 but I am not sure what happened to it. The last record I have is the arrival in Singapore, Captain Bang on June 3 1873. The 2nd Arab, Captain Moos, I track from 1881 when it arrived 11 Nov in HK from Chefoo. Then I have the trip to Manila. There is a story from 1883 in Google Books dated around 20 October - as follows >From the Life-Boat Journal At about 3 A.M. on the 20th of October large flares were seen in the direction of the Middle Cross Sand, and guns and rockets were fired by the Cockle and St. Nicholas lightships. The Caister No. 1. Life-boat Covent Garden was launched, and found the barque Arab, in ballast from London to Newcastle with a crew of fifteen men, lying to in the centre of the Middle Cross Sand. The Life-boat let go her anchor, veered down, and with great difficulty boarded her. The master requested the Life-boatmen to try to get the vessel off, and this having been successfully accomplished, a steam-tug was engaged to tow her into Yarmouth harbour. The wind was blowing fresh from the SW by W and there was a nasty sea on the sand. Listed as Barque Arab of Apenrade. There were 15 on board. Rhonda On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Ron Mapplebeck <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net>wrote: > I've retitled this message as it does seem quite likely we are here > dealing with two different vessels with the same name. > > From Miramar I have the basic history of the steamer ARAB mentioned by > Adi. > Launched 23.1.1879 by J.& G.Thomson, Clydebank, and completed 3.5.1879 > (3 May). > 3170 gross tons, length 106.7 metres (350.0 feet according to 1897 > Lloyd's Register) > Arrived Hamburg August 1900 to be broken up. > > The barque ARAB was 541 gross tons, completed at Apenrade in August 1880 > for J. Mathiesen. What was her career/fate? > > That sent me off looking for Apenrade! Now Abenra (Aabenraa) in Denmark, > but then Apenrade in Prussia! > > Ron Mapplebeck (UK) > **** > On 07/07/2011 14:40, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > > Hello Paxie, > > > > Are you sure it is this German/Prussian barque ARAB? I suspect that > > it might have been the Union Steamship Company (Limited) > > intermediate steamer ARAB, Captain Tyson, which left Southampton > > Sat., 26 January, 1895 with passengers, mails and cargo for Lisbon, > > Teneriffe and Cape of Good Hope. Can you give any further > > information?, more specific dates? was SWS passenger or crew? > > > > Regards, Adi > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/6/11, Paxie Kelsey<paxie@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > Hi there Is there anyone who could tell me a more complete history > > of this barque ... I have a Stephen William SMITH who sailed on the > > Arab from England to the Cape in 1895. Many thanks Paxie ----- > > Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: Rhonda Staskow ; > > mariners@rootsweb.com > > > > Hello Rhonda, > > > > According to American Lloyds Register, the Master's name in 1882 was > > Moos. > > > > regards Ted > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter Two birds one stone, The article confirms her loss in 61 and ownership by Mr Pyman . Its odd that she remained in the register so long after wards. Thanks for your help. Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:46 PM Subject: [MAR] George Pyman's Amelia

Correction O.N for Amelia was 6269 Mick

Can any one help out with the fate of the Brig Amelia O.N 5269, 142 tons registered in Stockton. The Pyman Story by P. Hogg & H. Appleyard, states that she was built in Hull in 1832. Acquired 14/1/1860 (By G Pyman). Lost on Redcar Beach October 1861 in a great storm having been washed off the gridiron in West Harbour. Amelia O.N 5269 is listed in MNL 1864 ? other info suggests her register closed in January 1864. I can't find a News paper report for her loss. What I Would like is to connect this Amelia to Mr Pyman and find out if she survived the encounter with the Redcar Beach ? if she did what did become of her ?. I am aware that some vessels remained on the register for a time but three years on the MNL seems too long. Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com

I am Looking to complete my collection of Lloyds Registers for the 1800s rather then post all those I do have, here is a list of those I don't have. Does any one know the location (online) of others. I am open to sharing. Starting From 1800 the missing years . 1816, 1817, 1875, 1877, 1879, 1884, 1886, 1888, >From 1890 Sail Vessels and Steamers were listed in separate volumes. Vol 1- Steamers 1891 Vol 1- Steamers 1893 Vol 1- Steamers 1895 Vol 1- Steamers 1897 Vol 1- Steamers 1900 Vol 1- Steamers 1890 Vol 2- Sailing Vessels 1891 Vol 2- Sailing Vessels 1892 Vol 2- Sailing Vessels 1900 Vol 2- Sailing Vessels Ending 1900 I also have Lloyds War Ships Of The World 1890 Lloyds War Ships Of The World 1892 Lloyds Register of Yachts 1883 Lloyds Register of Yachts 1901 Mick www.irishshipwrecks.com

If the CHASSERAL was carrying only clocks and watches what sort of quantities are we talking about to make up a worthwhile cargo ? I think that there is more to this than meets the eye given that Lisbon was the centre for espionage used by all combatants and that by this time in World War II many on the Axis side knew what was looming on their immediate horizon. What (or who) else was she carrying ? Possibly also bearing in mind that Vichy only had four more months before the German occupation. Regards Colin Colin Boyd Documentation Assistant Collections and Exhibitions Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums Tel: 0191 2772177 Fax: 0191 2302614 Email: colin.boyd@twmuseums.org.uk R ead Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums' new blog, and get involved with our social media, games and digital projects here - http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/engage/ Leader of the North East Regional Museums Hub Our mission is to help people determine their place in the world and define their identities, so enhancing their self-respect and respect for others. Find out more at: www.twmuseums.org.uk 2009 North East Public Sector Organisation of the year. v.1TWAM From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gordon Evans Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:40 PM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Re CHASSERAL Vichy of course crossed my mind, particularly since following the April 1944 incident the CHASSERAL's crew were rescued by the German navy, and the wounded vessel was towed into port by German auxiliary ships. Begging the oft-asked question - just how 'neutral' were the Swiss during WWII? :-) Regards Gordon From: <AndyCAdams@aol.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:57 PM Subject: [MAR] Re CHASSERAL >I can remember being told in the 1960's, when I think the Swiss had at >least six ocean going ships, that the officers were almost wholly French. >Back to the profile; 1941 in Vichy France, a ship sails from a Vichy port >with French officers and probably French crew to Lisbon, a hotbed of >espionage for both the Germans and the Allies. Bears some thought. >Rgds >Andy Adams ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify your IT department. All incoming and outgoing email are monitored for compliance with Tyne and Wear Museums email, Internet and security policy. This email has been swept by MIMEsweeper.

Hi - Indeed there are many barques named "Arab." While it appears that the 1882 voyages were linked to the 1880 vessel built in Apenrade, my original research began with the Arab built by Johann Heinrich David Reimer, my G-G-G grandfather, also in Apenrade. I have traced many of its voyages from 1859 to 1873 with much of the time spent in the Far East trade with Captains Bruhn and Holst and possibly Bang. The information has the ship listed out of register around Aug 1873 but I am not sure what happened to it. The last record I have is the arrival in Singapore, Captain Bang on June 3 1873. The 2nd Arab, Captain Moos, I track from 1881 when it arrived 11 Nov in HK from Chefoo. Then I have the trip to Manila. There is a story from 1883 in Google Books dated around 20 October - as follows >From the Life-Boat Journal At about 3 A.M. on the 20th of October large flares were seen in the direction of the Middle Cross Sand, and guns and rockets were fired by the Cockle and St. Nicholas lightships. The Caister No. 1. Life-boat Covent Garden was launched, and found the barque Arab, in ballast from London to Newcastle with a crew of fifteen men, lying to in the centre of the Middle Cross Sand. The Life-boat let go her anchor, veered down, and with great difficulty boarded her. The master requested the Life-boatmen to try to get the vessel off, and this having been successfully accomplished, a steam-tug was engaged to tow her into Yarmouth harbour. The wind was blowing fresh from the SW by W and there was a nasty sea on the sand. Listed as Barque Arab of Apenrade. There were 15 on board. Rhonda On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Ron Mapplebeck <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net>wrote: > I've retitled this message as it does seem quite likely we are here > dealing with two different vessels with the same name. > > From Miramar I have the basic history of the steamer ARAB mentioned by > Adi. > Launched 23.1.1879 by J.& G.Thomson, Clydebank, and completed 3.5.1879 > (3 May). > 3170 gross tons, length 106.7 metres (350.0 feet according to 1897 > Lloyd's Register) > Arrived Hamburg August 1900 to be broken up. > > The barque ARAB was 541 gross tons, completed at Apenrade in August 1880 > for J. Mathiesen. What was her career/fate? > > That sent me off looking for Apenrade! Now Abenra (Aabenraa) in Denmark, > but then Apenrade in Prussia! > > Ron Mapplebeck (UK) > **** > On 07/07/2011 14:40, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > > Hello Paxie, > > > > Are you sure it is this German/Prussian barque ARAB? I suspect that > > it might have been the Union Steamship Company (Limited) > > intermediate steamer ARAB, Captain Tyson, which left Southampton > > Sat., 26 January, 1895 with passengers, mails and cargo for Lisbon, > > Teneriffe and Cape of Good Hope. Can you give any further > > information?, more specific dates? was SWS passenger or crew? > > > > Regards, Adi > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/6/11, Paxie Kelsey<paxie@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > > > > Hi there Is there anyone who could tell me a more complete history > > of this barque ... I have a Stephen William SMITH who sailed on the > > Arab from England to the Cape in 1895. Many thanks Paxie ----- > > Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: Rhonda Staskow ; > > mariners@rootsweb.com > > > > Hello Rhonda, > > > > According to American Lloyds Register, the Master's name in 1882 was > > Moos. > > > > regards Ted > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 07/07/2011 18:50, Gordon Evans wrote: > There's a photograph of this vessel at :- > http://www.swiss-ships.ch/schiffe/chasseral_006/fr_chasseral_006.htm > and her history can be viewed by clicking on the union jack in the > left-hand column. > I'm intrigued as to why a ship flying the neutral Swiss flag, and > travelling from Marseilles to Lisbon in April 1944 with a cargo of > clocks& watches, should have been attacked& bombed by ten British > Beaufighters? >>>>>>>>>> I don't know the answer to that question - one aspect may well be whether the attack was intentionally bombing a neutral vessel on a neutral voyage, or whether it was an error. The answer will no doubt lie in the Foreign Office and Treasury papers regarding the subsequent claim by the Swiss Government - files are in the National Archives: FO 371/49693: Ex-gratia payment in compensation for damage caused by Royal Air Force raid on s.s. CHASSERAL (1945) FO 371/79855: Swiss claim for compensation for SS Chasseral damaged by RAF action (1949) T 225/1688: Compensation claim relating to damage caused to SS Chasseral (1947-1949) As an aside, also in April 1944, RAF Beaufighters managed to attack - twice - and sink a clearly marked Red Cross ship, the Swedish EMBLA - see http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=24941 David

Vichy of course crossed my mind, particularly since following the April 1944 incident the CHASSERAL's crew were rescued by the German navy, and the wounded vessel was towed into port by German auxiliary ships. Begging the oft-asked question - just how 'neutral' were the Swiss during WWII? :-) Regards Gordon From: <AndyCAdams@aol.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:57 PM Subject: [MAR] Re CHASSERAL >I can remember being told in the 1960's, when I think the Swiss had at >least six ocean going ships, that the officers were almost wholly French. >Back to the profile; 1941 in Vichy France, a ship sails from a Vichy port >with French officers and probably French crew to Lisbon, a hotbed of >espionage for both the Germans and the Allies. Bears some thought. >Rgds >Andy Adams

Hi Ron A cargo of clocks & watches from Marseilles to Lisbon sounds more like Swiss exports (vital to the Swiss economy?) than 'food and essential supplies for Swiss consumption'. In which case, you're probably correct in your suggestion that the voyage 'didn't fit the profile' as far as the crews of the ten British Beaufighters were concerned. Bad luck on the perfectly innocent Swiss greaser who lost his life in the incident, though, huh? Regards Gordon From: "Ron Mapplebeck" <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> To: "Gordon Evans" <gordon.w.evans@btinternet.com> Cc: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] CHASSERAL ex INGELI (ON 108651) > In HARRISONS OF LIVERPOOL by Graeme Cubbin (World Ship Society/Ships In > Focus Publications, 2003) under the history of the INGELI it states that > as the CHASSERAL from July 1941 she was "employed, with the agreement of > the warring nations, to carry food and essential supplies for Swiss > consumption." > > I wonder which ports would be available to her under this agreement? I can > understand that Marseilles, on the French Mediterranean, might be about as > close as they could get, but was onward transportation difficult through > occupied France despite any such agreement? > > Maybe the voyage Marseilles to Lisbon didn't fit the profile in British > wartime eyes?? > > Was this form of agreement a general dispensation for all Swiss-registered > ships? > > Ron Mapplebeck (UK) > **** > On 07/07/2011 18:50, Gordon Evans wrote: >> There's a photograph of this vessel at :- >> >> http://www.swiss-ships.ch/schiffe/chasseral_006/fr_chasseral_006.htm >> >> and her history can be viewed by clicking on the union jack in the >> left-hand >> column. >> >> I'm intrigued as to why a ship flying the neutral Swiss flag, and >> travelling >> from Marseilles to Lisbon in April 1944 with a cargo of clocks& watches, >> should have been attacked& bombed by ten British Beaufighters? >> >> Regards >> Gordon

In HARRISONS OF LIVERPOOL by Graeme Cubbin (World Ship Society/Ships In Focus Publications, 2003) under the history of the INGELI it states that as the CHASSERAL from July 1941 she was "employed, with the agreement of the warring nations, to carry food and essential supplies for Swiss consumption." I wonder which ports would be available to her under this agreement? I can understand that Marseilles, on the French Mediterranean, might be about as close as they could get, but was onward transportation difficult through occupied France despite any such agreement? Maybe the voyage Marseilles to Lisbon didn't fit the profile in British wartime eyes?? Was this form of agreement a general dispensation for all Swiss-registered ships? Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 07/07/2011 18:50, Gordon Evans wrote: > There's a photograph of this vessel at :- > > http://www.swiss-ships.ch/schiffe/chasseral_006/fr_chasseral_006.htm > > and her history can be viewed by clicking on the union jack in the left-hand > column. > > I'm intrigued as to why a ship flying the neutral Swiss flag, and travelling > from Marseilles to Lisbon in April 1944 with a cargo of clocks& watches, > should have been attacked& bombed by ten British Beaufighters? > > Regards > Gordon > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There's a photograph of this vessel at :- http://www.swiss-ships.ch/schiffe/chasseral_006/fr_chasseral_006.htm and her history can be viewed by clicking on the union jack in the left-hand column. I'm intrigued as to why a ship flying the neutral Swiss flag, and travelling from Marseilles to Lisbon in April 1944 with a cargo of clocks & watches, should have been attacked & bombed by ten British Beaufighters? Regards Gordon

I've retitled this message as it does seem quite likely we are here dealing with two different vessels with the same name. From Miramar I have the basic history of the steamer ARAB mentioned by Adi. Launched 23.1.1879 by J.& G.Thomson, Clydebank, and completed 3.5.1879 (3 May). 3170 gross tons, length 106.7 metres (350.0 feet according to 1897 Lloyd's Register) Arrived Hamburg August 1900 to be broken up. The barque ARAB was 541 gross tons, completed at Apenrade in August 1880 for J. Mathiesen. What was her career/fate? That sent me off looking for Apenrade! Now Abenra (Aabenraa) in Denmark, but then Apenrade in Prussia! Ron Mapplebeck (UK) **** On 07/07/2011 14:40, Mme_N_Carmichael wrote: > Hello Paxie, > > Are you sure it is this German/Prussian barque ARAB? I suspect that > it might have been the Union Steamship Company (Limited) > intermediate steamer ARAB, Captain Tyson, which left Southampton > Sat., 26 January, 1895 with passengers, mails and cargo for Lisbon, > Teneriffe and Cape of Good Hope. Can you give any further > information?, more specific dates? was SWS passenger or crew? > > Regards, Adi > > > > --- On Wed, 7/6/11, Paxie Kelsey<paxie@telkomsa.net> wrote: > > > Hi there Is there anyone who could tell me a more complete history > of this barque ... I have a Stephen William SMITH who sailed on the > Arab from England to the Cape in 1895. Many thanks Paxie ----- > Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: Rhonda Staskow ; > mariners@rootsweb.com > > Hello Rhonda, > > According to American Lloyds Register, the Master's name in 1882 was > Moos. > > regards Ted > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message >

I can remember being told in the 1960's, when I think the Swiss had at least six ocean going ships, that the officers were almost wholly French. Back to the profile; 1941 in Vichy France, a ship sails from a Vichy port with French officers and probably French crew to Lisbon, a hotbed of espionage for both the Germans and the Allies. Bears some thought. Rgds Andy Adams

Hello Ron/Maureen, I, too, think that CLY must be for the Clyde - it occurs repeatedly in other entries, such as "Cly. Montreal", "Cly. Maurits.", or "Cly. Baltic; and cross-checking the entries in the newspapers usually returns vessels that habitually sailed from the Clyde. Regards, PK ________________________________ From: Ron Mapplebeck <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> To: Maureen Stewart <maureen2411@tiscali.co.uk> Cc: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 7 July, 2011 0:12:03 Subject: [MAR] PORT ABBREVIATION was Re: Help Needed! Maureen, I do hope one of our Listers can provide a definitive answer, as this from me is pure guesswork! I think we must both feel Medit is short for Mediterranean? However, there does not seem to be any present-day port in the Med which would abbreviate to CLY. My guess, therefore, is that this might stand for Clyde (which in some ways appears quite obvious!) perhaps in the context of loading in the Clyde and then proceeding to the Mediterranean. As I say, just a guess, but my starter for ten! Ron Mapplebeck ***** On 06/07/2011 16:45, Maureen Stewart wrote: > Hi, > > I have traced an ancestor George Roche who was Ships master on the > Sayed Pasha. Lloyd's register 1854- 1855 page 182. It states that the > destination is CLY. Medit. Help! What does the CLY stand for? I > realise that it must be a Port Abbreviation but cannot find it! The > vessal was built in Greenock but home Port was given as London > > Hoping that someone can help. > > Many thanks > > Maureen > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message