Dear all,   Concurrent with my other query about naval courts, I'm wondering where to look for records of injured English seamen left behind in foreign ports. This would have happened in Nov./Dec. of 1863 somewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean. Would it have been reported to the nearest Consul? That supposedly unlucky first mate turned out to be the only survivor of the ship which left him behind.   Regards, Adi

Hello David,   Thank you for this reply.   The ship was the Shields barque E.D.T., ON 2219.   Richard Keys gives the master as Captain Denholm, tho' the newspaper shipping columns frequently give the surname as Denham.   >From a letter (written 60+ years later, so possibly not accurate), the master's name is given as George Thomas Denham.   The mate was possibly a Mr. Williams. (I am very interested in his first name and whether he testified, either for or against.)   The other charges, according to Keys, were using intemperate language and not having the ship properly provisioned. The master was apparently found guilty as he was fined £5.95 (but on which charge(s)?).   Amongst other things, I am looking for parallels to this case: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=mXkqAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA294&dq=%22can+counsel+and+attorneys%22&hl=en&ei=JDEwTs3oNYjogQfLy72SDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22can%20counsel%20and%20attorneys%22&f=false   Regards, Adi   --- On Wed, 7/27/11, David Asprey <dasprey@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: In the past I have found this kind of report in the Consular papers for the place in question, in the National Archives at Kew.  These inquiries/courts were ordered by the Consul and headed by a RN captain or an experienced British master mariner, as available (and failing that, by the consul himself). In this case, possibly among following files: FO 78/1677 Consuls at Constantinople; Cumberbatch, Dunlop, Abbott, Stevens, Guarracino. 1862. FO 78/1696 Supreme Consular Court: Sir E. Hornby, Dr. Parnis, Mr. Francis. 1862 Jan.-April.  FO 78/1789 Accounts of H. M. 's Supreme Consular Court, Constantinople, vol. 3. 1862-1863.[probably financial accounts only] FO 780/368 Supreme Court, Constantinople. Despatches from Foreign Office, consular 1858-1863 FO 780/333 Supreme Court, Constantinople. Despatches to Foreign Office, judicial  1859-1862  If you have more details - eg name of ship, or people involved that would be helpful. David

Mariners, Am I correct in that the passenger carrying cargo ship rules specified up to 12 without a Doctor? Please could anyone tell me under which rules the LEIGHTON, 145877, Lamport and Holt Line, carried passengers? The TNA Passenger Manifest shows around 10 person in the 1930's. Many thanks Rod

Eileen Reid Marcil's book "The Charley-Man" is subtitled "A History of Wooden Shipbuilding at Quebec 1763-1893". The English version of the book appeared in 1995, I think the French one preceded it by a couple of years. It contains what is given as a complete list of all seagoing vessels built in the area. There is no BUDGET listed. I think it possible that the CHIN reference previously cited is incorrect as to the name. It has happened before with that source. The person doing the data entry to the CHIN website probably read "BRIDGET" as "BUDGET", which would be very easy to do with handwritten entries. As far as I am aware the material Marcil collected is not available on line as such. I do know that she has donated at least some of her research materials to various institutions. John From: "Edie McArthur" <ediemc@bigpond.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:23 AM To: <jduerkop@cogeco.ca>; "alex borgogno" <alex442@virgilio.it>; <mariners-l@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MAR] Colombo/Bridget > Isthere anything else in the data you are looking at please and can I go > to a website and view. > Thanks > Edie > ps Sorry about all f these posts but maybe one day someone else may be > asking the same questions but it will be there for them. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <jduerkop@cogeco.ca> > To: "alex borgogno" <alex442@virgilio.it>; <mariners-l@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: [MAR] Colombo/Bridget > > >> The translated transcript of the contracts to build the ship at Pointe >> aux >> Trembles are quite clear. Her name was to be BRIDGET. The translation >> was >> done by Parks Canada. Incidentally, Mr. Angers made a profit of 37 >> pounds, >> 14 shillings and 1 pence in building her. That was a profit of less than >> 2 >> %. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "alex borgogno" <alex442@virgilio.it> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:03 PM >> To: <mariners-l@rootsweb.com> >> Subject: [MAR] Colombo/Bridget >> >>> It is becoming very interesting. I managed to check my early hand >>> written >>> transcription from the "Liverpool Ships Register" to see if I made an >>> error typing this data into my PC, the name I see is Bridget. >>> The American Lloyd's Register gives correct data on this vessel. I had >>> not >>> checked it before for her, probably due to her short life, which did not >>> make it much interested to me. >>> At this point I can only think that, either I made an early error of >>> transcription, or the Liverpool Ships Register got the wrong name >>> entered. >>> Yes the MNL gives the name Budget, I remember I thought that it was an >>> error, due to my previous findings. >>> The only think to do now, to clear the issue, is to check the Canadian >>> Register for the name Budget. >>> Those vessels name Bridget listed, do not seem to have to correct >>> tonnage >>> to qualify. >>> Alex >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks for your help  Mick. I have no idea of the name of the ships the the Mulreany's of Donegal owned. I know the the owner was Hugh Mulreany and the ship's captain was a man named Bennett. The coast guard in the Donegal Bay area was a man named  Thomas Morgan and two of Hugh Mulreany's sons married his two daughters.    Best Regards Sean

Hello Edie,   No, that's what Piers was trying to tell you. The American Lloyd's continued to list her until 1869, but without any solid evidence that she was still in existence after 1863. She could still very well be your BUDGET/COLOMBO.   Regards, Adi --- On Wed, 7/27/11, Edie McArthur <ediemc@bigpond.com> wrote: BUDGET continues to appear in editions up to 1869, but it should be noted that in 1869 she was recorded as last "seen" in NY in 1863, so it goes to show that such things aren't necessarily all that accurate and shouldn't be absolutely relied upon! So if she was being recorded still in 1869 not our Colombo. Edie

Only a guess of mine, let us suppose that Eileen Marcil was correct with her data on the BRIDGET, and let us suppose that the very same firm built two vessels for Liverpool, maybe even both for the same merchants, there could have been a possible error by part of the Clerk recording the passage, so that the Bridget was entered as the Colombo, while possibly the Budget was recorded under another name. Anyone has any idea how to clear up this situation ? It now may seem that the Colombo was in fact the Budget, and not the Bridget, by the late documentation offered. The question would be, what ever happened to the Bridget ? Isn't this an interesting quest ? Alex

A few O/N of vessels named Colombo, from my files: 25124, of London; 37096, of Liverpool; 38533, of Sydney, CA; 47664, of London, and later of Hong-Kong; 54994, of Liverpool; 61351, of Miramichi; 62058, of Greenock; 45664, of London; 900473, of Miramichi. And a Columbo, 58080, of Sunderland. I have many more, but no O/N for them, most were early vessels, this list does not include Italian or French vessels by this name. I must add that I have not done a in depth research on these vessels, since for me are only a curiosity, not having any certain relation with Cristopher Columbus's name, as the Italian vessels of this name have. However when I find any data of them, I take a note of it. Alex

It is becoming very interesting. I managed to check my early hand written transcription from the "Liverpool Ships Register" to see if I made an error typing this data into my PC, the name I see is Bridget. The American Lloyd's Register gives correct data on this vessel. I had not checked it before for her, probably due to her short life, which did not make it much interested to me. At this point I can only think that, either I made an early error of transcription, or the Liverpool Ships Register got the wrong name entered. Yes the MNL gives the name Budget, I remember I thought that it was an error, due to my previous findings. The only think to do now, to clear the issue, is to check the Canadian Register for the name Budget. Those vessels name Bridget listed, do not seem to have to correct tonnage to qualify. Alex

The translated transcript of the contracts to build the ship at Pointe aux Trembles are quite clear. Her name was to be BRIDGET. The translation was done by Parks Canada. Incidentally, Mr. Angers made a profit of 37 pounds, 14 shillings and 1 pence in building her. That was a profit of less than 2 %. -------------------------------------------------- From: "alex borgogno" <alex442@virgilio.it> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 10:03 PM To: <mariners-l@rootsweb.com> Subject: [MAR] Colombo/Bridget > It is becoming very interesting. I managed to check my early hand written > transcription from the "Liverpool Ships Register" to see if I made an > error typing this data into my PC, the name I see is Bridget. > The American Lloyd's Register gives correct data on this vessel. I had not > checked it before for her, probably due to her short life, which did not > make it much interested to me. > At this point I can only think that, either I made an early error of > transcription, or the Liverpool Ships Register got the wrong name entered. > Yes the MNL gives the name Budget, I remember I thought that it was an > error, due to my previous findings. > The only think to do now, to clear the issue, is to check the Canadian > Register for the name Budget. > Those vessels name Bridget listed, do not seem to have to correct tonnage > to qualify. > Alex > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Looks like she was BUDGET: the 1862 American Lloyds Register of American and Foreign Shipping has a 933 ton Quebec ship of that name in 1862 edition, other details tally: http://tinyurl.com/3z4p63a . If there was a transcription error then it evidently made it onto that as well. BUDGET continues to appear in editions up to 1869, but it should be noted that in 1869 she was recorded as last "seen" in NY in 1863, so it goes to show that such things aren't necessarily all that accurate and shouldn't be absolutely relied upon! -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mick Sent: 26 July 2011 18:31 To: Mariners List Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo Pete owns from the Clip Website has sent me a cutting from the Appropriation books this shows her entry in the Book as Budget and subsequently sold to Liverpool under a new name, what you don't see in the clip is that she was first reg,d in Quebec in 1861 but take it from me its there. I have posted it here and sent a copy to Edie http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pid=47#top_dis play_media My link in the last post seems to have an error so try this one. and search by number. http://www.pro.rcip-chin.gc.ca/bd-dl/nav-ship-eng.jsp?emu=en.vessel:/Proxapp /ws/vessel/public/vessel/SearchForm Mick O Rourke Mariners List ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi have been told that the Colombo lost in the Cyclone at Calcutta was originally Bridget but can find no reference to either Bridget or Colombo. This is the reason for the question re: Ships number remaining the same when there is a change. Does anyone have references to the Bridget please. The information I was given was; Colombo, built 1863 by AJ Duberd at Point aux Trembles, near quebec as the BRIDGET. 934 grt., 863 net. Dim.: 170.0 x 35.2 x 21.0 ft. Registered at Liverpool (n. 520), on Dec. 24, 1863 as COLOMBO, for Wm Thompson Dixon & Edward Wm Wynne. Lost at Calcutta Oct. 5, 1864. I have been to Quebec to the port there in 1998 to see if they had a photof of another ship. I remember them having a thick book with photos of ships and information of other shiips without pictures so maybe they could even help. The chap who gave me the information cannot find his reference for it. He gave the number as 37096, signal letters SCNB we could really do with this ship seamans list. Does anyone else have this information and cantell me where this came from please aas we would like to quote a reference in our research as one does. Thanks Edie

Thanks Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Asprey" <dasprey@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Ships name change > on 26 Jul 2011 Edie wrote > > Can anyone tell me please if a Ship has a name change (Mercahnt Navy) does > the ship keep her original number please. > >>>>>>>>>>> > > On the British and US registers, and no doubt on some others, the Official > Number does stay constant. That is, provided it stays on the same > national > register. And since the early 1980s, the IMO number became a lifetime > indicator, regardless of flag, name etc. > > But there are some countries that don't have a national numbering system. > For example, in Greece, the numbers are issued by ports, so will change if > the port of registry changes (but stay the same if it is a new name at the > same port). And of course the systems of national official numbers were > only introduced in different countries during at varying times from the > mid-19th century onwards. > > > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thankyou for that. Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chrism" <chrism@webone.com.au> To: "Edie McArthur" <ediemc@bigpond.com>; "Mariners Rootsweb" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Ships name change > Edie, > British ships keep their original number. I don't know about others. > Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edie McArthur" <ediemc@bigpond.com> > To: "Mariners Rootsweb" <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:24 PM > Subject: [MAR] Ships name change > > > Hi > Can anyone tell me please if a Ship has a name change (Mercahnt Navy) does > the ship keep her original number please. > Thanks > Edie >

Dear all,   I seem to be going round in circles on this one. I am looking for details of a naval court (not a court-martial) held in Constantinople on 6 February, 1862 and presided over by Captain Seymour of HMS WANDERER, where a merchant captain was tried on charges of placing men in irons without sufficient authority. Pointers on where to look gratefully accepted.   Regards, Adi

Pete owns from the Clip Website has sent me a cutting from the Appropriation books this shows her entry in the Book as Budget and subsequently sold to Liverpool under a new name, what you don't see in the clip is that she was first reg,d in Quebec in 1861 but take it from me its there. I have posted it here and sent a copy to Edie http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pid=47#top_display_media My link in the last post seems to have an error so try this one. and search by number. http://www.pro.rcip-chin.gc.ca/bd-dl/nav-ship-eng.jsp?emu=en.vessel:/Proxapp/ws/vessel/public/vessel/SearchForm Mick O Rourke Mariners List

Edie, British ships keep their original number. I don't know about others. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edie McArthur" <ediemc@bigpond.com> To: "Mariners Rootsweb" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 4:24 PM Subject: [MAR] Ships name change Hi Can anyone tell me please if a Ship has a name change (Mercahnt Navy) does the ship keep her original number please. Thanks Edie

Sorry about that, forget about the Liverpool's Registers of Visiting Vessels. I just noticed a note I made log ago:- All British cvessels visiting Liverpool for the first time were entered in a series of Registers (10 in all), the data being copied from the ship's copy of the Custom House and Register of their parent port. When in 1824 ship register system was introduced, all the pre 1824 registers were transfered to the new system. Most ports threw out the old registers, but some retained those absolute records and some still exist. In fact I see that in this file I only recorded data from 1790 to 1798. So your best bet is still for the "Bills of Entry", unfortunately those I have on file are running from 1822 to 1858 only.

Hi Can anyone tell me please if a Ship has a name change (Mercahnt Navy) does the ship keep her original number please. Thanks Edie

I just checked another one of my files, this is the "Liverpool Ship Register 1787-1880" COLOMBO, O/N 37096 Built 1861 at Point aux Trembles, near Quebec, by A.J. Dubord as the BRIDGET, and sold to foreigners. Ship, 934 grt, 863 net, 170.0 x 35.2 x 21.0 ft. Registered at Liverpool 24 Dec. 1863 (no. 520), as COLOMBO. Owners:- Wm Thompson Dixon, Liverpool merchant, 32/64, and Ed Wm Wynne, Liverpool merchant, 32/64, joint owners. Lost Calcutta Oct. 5, 1864. Hope this helps If I find more data on her I will share it. Best Alex, retired US Merchant Mariner Resident in the sunny Italian Riviera