i am trying to find out information about my grandfather Samuel Gibbs Rao, he served on a ship called the ss pencarrow sailing out of barry dock south wales uk (carrying coal). i do not know his nationallity or where he originally came from, or if he served on any other ships can you help please

I have found mention of this ship in a book on Evan Thomas Radcliffe, Cardiff but cannot find it in the registers. Radcliffe Venturer, 504 g.t., built 1964, ex-Tilly (1969), ex-Henriette (1972), ex-Hattstedt (1974), ex-Bea (1980). Built by N.V.Bodewes Scheepswerven, Martenshoek, Netherlands, 1980 purchased from Baltic Schooner Association, Cayman Islands. Did this vessel actually exist and if so, why not in the registers? regards Ted

My relative did not show up on the online search of the Royal Marines, but i found his service papers at TNA. It appears the online search facility is not entirely accurate. Regards Dawn Sent from my iPhone On 5 Aug 2011, at 11:35, Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> wrote: Mardell I would have thought that William should be listed in the Documents Online database linked to the following web page, which includes men who joined the Royal Marines between 1842 and 1925 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royalmarines.asp but regret I can't see him : perhaps you'd like to have a look to make sure I'm not missing something. The question mark character can be used as a wildcard eg G??dman will pick up Goodman and Gladman. If not take advice already provided and perhaps contact the National Archives to see if they can throw any light on why he's not included in their database ? Paul On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 07:10:40 -0700 (PDT), TRAVIS GITCHEL <mgitchel@bellsouth.net> wrote: Good morning to the list, In the 1861 UK census, William Goodman, 25, is a private in the Royal Marines. He is stationed aboard the Edgar which is part of the Channel fleet. Where would I look in the Archives to find his service record? Wills was the father of Julia Goodman, my great grandmother. I appreciate any help that might be offered. Thank you. Mardell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mardell I would have thought that William should be listed in the Documents Online database linked to the following web page, which includes men who joined the Royal Marines between 1842 and 1925 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royalmarines.asp but regret I can't see him : perhaps you'd like to have a look to make sure I'm not missing something. The question mark character can be used as a wildcard eg G??dman will pick up Goodman and Gladman. If not take advice already provided and perhaps contact the National Archives to see if they can throw any light on why he's not included in their database ? Paul On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 07:10:40 -0700 (PDT), TRAVIS GITCHEL <mgitchel@bellsouth.net> wrote: >Good morning to the list, >         In the 1861 UK census, William Goodman, 25, is a private in the Royal >Marines. He is stationed aboard the Edgar which is part of the Channel fleet. >Where would I look in the Archives to find his service record?  Wills was the >father of Julia Goodman, my great grandmother. I appreciate any help that might >be offered. Thank you. Mardell > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Sorry - typo in my posting - it has been pointed out to me that it should have been the Court of Common Pleas, not the Court of Common Please! Doh! Force of habit. -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Piers Smith-Cresswell Sent: 04 August 2011 21:58 To: 'Barbara Neish'; MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Captain & Crew Further to my posting this morning, and to Barbara's response to me off-list, I've turned up some further information as to how the crews of "Country Ships" were recruited - at least in 1797. A legal case heard that year in the Court of Common Please (on Google Books at http://tinyurl.com/3u83hl3 ) suggests that it was usual for crews to be recruited by the master contracting with a person called a Serang (described in the report as "captain of an Indian Crew", whose position is usual described as Bosun) to provide so many men for a given voyage at such and such a rate per month. It was thus the Serang who did the actual recruiting for the bulk of the crew and no doubt he did not lose out financially by the arrangement..... ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree with Harold. While the ship was at sea the wheel would be taken by a seaman who would steer as directed by the mate of the watch, who would take his orders as to the course from the captain. Generally captains of ships of any size did not stand watches but were 100% responsible all the time, and could be on deck at any time of the day or night to supervise as they felt appropriate. So to answer the question of who actually sailed a ship, it was a crewman at the wheel, supervised by a mate, with the master in overall control. The skill (or lack of it) of the helmsman could be a factor in any accident. Approaching port, or another navigational hazard, a master would normally take a pilot aboard who would be familiar with the local tides, currents, rocks, shoals, wrecks and other navigational hazards. While the pilot was aboard he was in charge of directing the vessel, but the overall responsibility technically remained the master's, who was supposed to remain on deck throughout. If the pilot ran the vessel aground, though, it would as Harold says have been the pilot who got into trouble for it - as long as the master was present. However, a death at sea doesn't necessarily have to have been caused by shipwreck. As a couple of postings last week [Mariners deaths on ships to Hong Kong in the 1800's and How Many Ways Could a Person Die at Sea? 1800's] pointed out, deaths could occur in many ways, not only from falling from aloft and/or drowning or being injured in heavy weather, but from illnesses which it was beyond the skill of those on the ship to treat - which could be something like appendicitis. I'm not sure whether you are aware of the copies of Lloyds List available online, but there are some for your period which you can look up at http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000549597 . I had a bit of a look through 1807/08 searching for "Swain" and got a number of hits, none of them very exciting - it looked as if there was more than one Captain Swain. It is possible that you may be able to put some itineraries together. Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of suemaxwell Sent: 04 August 2011 18:48 To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] dangers of the NY harbor I have an unsolved ship mystery in my background. My ggg grandfather, Shubael Swain, was a NYC ship captain who came from Nantucket. By 1803, at least, he was working there as a ship captain. Several old records indicate that he and his brother "died at sea in NY on Jan 10,1808" The research that I did led me to believe this was incorrect, and that he had not died. What I found out from his father's 1812 will was that he did not die but his brother did. He ended up naming his first son after his brother. I have someone in NYC how is supposed to be looking for a possible old article about it, but this person isn't doing it. I do have a theory- I have a 1807 poster copy of a painting of his clipper ship, The Experiment of NY, of which he was the ship master. I recently learned that his son who moved to Cleveland, and family, eventually had the original of the painting which looks like a water color. Anyway, my theory is that since he was a ship master, and one brother had already moved to NYC as a mariner, that he took this ship up to Nantucket to pick up the remaining brother and bring him back to NYC to go into the shipping business. The had a brother who was lost at sea some unknown date. I think that something drastic- what I do not know- happened as they entered the NY harbor. I just found the following article that I think may be of interest to people on the list as it talks about the harbor at that time and why and how it was dangerous. Very interesting article. http://www.yuhsg.org/webpages/hurst/files/Shipwreck%20Lesson.pdf Can someone tell me who actually sailed a ship? Was it the master, or someone else or both? Sue ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Mick, Found them!! They contain a simple fleet list of about 50 ships - is there anything I can look up for you? Ted On 04/08/2011 22:21, Mick wrote: > Hi listers > > Would any of you kind people have, or know the where - abouts of a copy of the Ships Monthly, March-May 1982. > I am looking for a feature on the Limerick Steamship Company . > > Mick O Rourke > > > www.irishshipwrecks.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi listers Would any of you kind people have, or know the where - abouts of a copy of the Ships Monthly, March-May 1982. I am looking for a feature on the Limerick Steamship Company . Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com

Further to my posting this morning, and to Barbara's response to me off-list, I've turned up some further information as to how the crews of "Country Ships" were recruited - at least in 1797. A legal case heard that year in the Court of Common Please (on Google Books at http://tinyurl.com/3u83hl3 ) suggests that it was usual for crews to be recruited by the master contracting with a person called a Serang (described in the report as "captain of an Indian Crew", whose position is usual described as Bosun) to provide so many men for a given voyage at such and such a rate per month. It was thus the Serang who did the actual recruiting for the bulk of the crew and no doubt he did not lose out financially by the arrangement.....

Hi Mardell I had a relative in the Royal Marine Light Infantry who was aboard HMS Dauntless at time of Crimean War in 1854-55. I found the following records at the National Archives: * His service records in ADM 157. * Ships logs in ADM 53. * Ships Musters listing all the men on board, including Royal Marines, in ADM 38. * Surgeon's Report for 1855 in ADM 101. This listed every man who had been ill or injured, as well as other interesting information including the activities of HMS Dauntless that year. A search on 'HMS Edgar' at TNA may prove worthwhile as all of these documents may provide you with information on William Goodman.   regards   Dawn ________________________________ From: TRAVIS GITCHEL <mgitchel@bellsouth.net> To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August, 2011 15:10:40 Subject: [MAR] Royal Marine Good morning to the list,          In the 1861 UK census, William Goodman, 25, is a private in the Royal Marines. He is stationed aboard the Edgar which is part of the Channel fleet. Where would I look in the Archives to find his service record?  Wills was the father of Julia Goodman, my great grandmother. I appreciate any help that might be offered. Thank you. Mardell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-----Original Message----- From: hwabz <hwabz@aol.com> To: suemaxwell <suemaxwell@comcast.net> Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] dangers of the NY harbor Hi Sue ~ I would suggest that the ship's captain was 100% responsible when the ship was in the open ocean. When the ship entered a harbor or a river en route to a port of call, however, a local pilot who knew the "lay of the water" would typically come on board to bring the ship to its final berth. The captain I'm tracking had his ship run aground on Para Rock when leaving Galle harbor (then Ceylon, now Sri Lanka) in 1882. He was completely exonerated, indeed subsequently rewarded for his actions following the grounding. The harbor pilot was busted to the lowest rank. This was Captain John Kelly of the American Steamship Company steamer British King ~ in case anyone else on the List has an interest in this man or ship. Maybe others on the List can further enlighten us on the roles and responsibilities of the ship's captain and the local pilot when they were together on a ship. Harold -----Original Message----- From: suemaxwell <suemaxwell@comcast.net> To: MARINERS <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 4, 2011 10:51 am Subject: [MAR] dangers of the NY harbor I have an unsolved ship mystery in my background. My ggg grandfather, hubael Swain, was a NYC ship captain who came from Nantucket. By 1803, t least, he was working there as a ship captain. Several old records ndicate that he and his brother "died at sea in NY on Jan 10,1808" The esearch that I did led me to believe this was incorrect, and that he ad not died. What I found out from his father's 1812 will was that he id not die but his brother did. He ended up naming his first son after is brother. I have someone in NYC how is supposed to be looking for a ossible old article about it, but this person isn't doing it. I do have a theory- I have a 1807 poster copy of a painting of his lipper ship, The Experiment of NY, of which he was the ship master. I ecently learned that his son who moved to Cleveland, and family, ventually had the original of the painting which looks like a water color. Anyway, my theory is that since he was a ship master, and one brother ad already moved to NYC as a mariner, that he took this ship up to antucket to pick up the remaining brother and bring him back to NYC to o into the shipping business. The had a brother who was lost at sea ome unknown date. I think that something drastic- what I do not know- happened as they ntered the NY harbor. I just found the following article that I think ay be of interest to people on the list as it talks about the harbor at hat time and why and how it was dangerous. Very interesting article. http://www.yuhsg.org/webpages/hurst/files/Shipwreck%20Lesson.pdf Can someone tell me who actually sailed a ship? Was it the master, or omeone else or both? Sue ------------------------------ o unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com ith the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of he message

Hi Mardell Try here under R http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guide-listing.htm#r Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) Good morning to the list, In the 1861 UK census, William Goodman, 25, is a private in the Royal Marines. He is stationed aboard the Edgar which is part of the Channel fleet. Where would I look in the Archives to find his service record? Wills was the father of Julia Goodman, my great grandmother. I appreciate any help that might be offered. Thank you. Mardell

Harold, Thanks for that information about the captain bringing the ship in at the end. After reading this article I realize it was really a very dangerous harbor as was the Nantucket harbor. I can imagine a number of scenarios and I suspect he was so devastated that that is why he named his first son after this brother who died in the incident. If I never find an article, I will invent my own story for fun. I don't want it to remain a total mystery and I just might write a short mystery about it, anyway. It is really bugging me like some of these brickwalls do. If there were no lighthouses until 1850 then the small tower at the end of a piece of land must just be a tower. There is a big American flag on the back, a jib sail in the front, and a small pilot boat in the water near it. . It is so faded but it looks like it says it was its maiden voyage in 1807. I used to live on the LI Sound and it would be interesting to see if the painting matches an old harbor photo or something in that area. Thanks, Sue

I have an unsolved ship mystery in my background. My ggg grandfather, Shubael Swain, was a NYC ship captain who came from Nantucket. By 1803, at least, he was working there as a ship captain. Several old records indicate that he and his brother "died at sea in NY on Jan 10,1808" The research that I did led me to believe this was incorrect, and that he had not died. What I found out from his father's 1812 will was that he did not die but his brother did. He ended up naming his first son after his brother. I have someone in NYC how is supposed to be looking for a possible old article about it, but this person isn't doing it. I do have a theory- I have a 1807 poster copy of a painting of his clipper ship, The Experiment of NY, of which he was the ship master. I recently learned that his son who moved to Cleveland, and family, eventually had the original of the painting which looks like a water color. Anyway, my theory is that since he was a ship master, and one brother had already moved to NYC as a mariner, that he took this ship up to Nantucket to pick up the remaining brother and bring him back to NYC to go into the shipping business. The had a brother who was lost at sea some unknown date. I think that something drastic- what I do not know- happened as they entered the NY harbor. I just found the following article that I think may be of interest to people on the list as it talks about the harbor at that time and why and how it was dangerous. Very interesting article. http://www.yuhsg.org/webpages/hurst/files/Shipwreck%20Lesson.pdf Can someone tell me who actually sailed a ship? Was it the master, or someone else or both? Sue

Hello Barbara I held off replying to this until I finished reading C. Northcote Parkinson's "Trade in the Eastern Seas 1793-1813", first published in 1937 and still in print - its available on Amazon in paperback at around $30 (I'm doing only a very rough currency conversion). From earlier posts you've made I assume you are referring to Captain James Neish and you evidently know a fair amount about his voyages already, but you might still find it interesting to get hold of a copy. The Country trade only takes up one chapter right at the end of the book, but you may learn more about what types of cargo they carried from particular ports and the sometimes dubious way in which cargos could be acquired or sold, the risk from pirates, and the background which might explain why he went to India as a free mariner rather than in the service of the East India Company. There is a bit on the ships themselves, which may or may not be of interest to you; though they were often "looked-down" on, Parkinson argues that Indian-built ships were at least as good if not better than many of their British-built counterparts in many ways. There is a good bibliography and it may be that one of the works cited there goes into more detail. Some of the older ones may even be on Google books. Country ships appear to generally have had British officers and Asiatic crews, and Parkinson isn't specific as to how either were recruited. Though the regular EIC career had its own peculiarities, I assume the crews of Country ships would have been recruited in much the same way as most 19th century merchant crews; that is, by word of mouth, locally at the home port (bearing in mind that it would be common knowledge on the waterfront as to which ships were loaded and due to sail soon), and added to at intermediate ports to replace men lost through death or desertion. As for the officers, who one would also expect to be well-informed, I expect it was a question of the master visiting the right ship owners regularly (armed with letters of reference if necessary) until a position became available. I don't know whether he would then have chosen his mates or whether they too would have been appointed by the ship owner. It is possible that Neish changed vessel so often because he was familiar with particular waters and/or a particular cargo, and so tended to sail on vessels going there, or maybe he was filling-in for someone else. To some extent I expect it depends on where he was in his career. I would expect a mate to change ships more often than a master, and a junior mate or master more than a senior one. Sorry not to be able to be more specific but since I haven't seen any other responses I thought something might be better than nothing! Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Neish Sent: 31 July 2011 00:58 To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Captain & Crew Might someone be able to give me a little education ? My question is in regard of my old Grandfather who went out to India in 1807, under the license of the Court of Directors [of the East India Company] as a free mariner. During the first 10 to 15 years there, he Captained several different Ships, in the Country Trade, some only for one voyage. My curiosity is - how did a Ship-owner select a Captain & Crew - i.e. how did he 'get the job' ? Was it only through Newspaper advertisements or was there some regulating body ? His final 15 to 20 years out there, he continually Captained one Ship - but he owned shares in that Ship, so that is easier to understand. Might someone help me with my curiosity ? Barbara Neish Bermuda ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning to the list,          In the 1861 UK census, William Goodman, 25, is a private in the Royal Marines. He is stationed aboard the Edgar which is part of the Channel fleet. Where would I look in the Archives to find his service record?  Wills was the father of Julia Goodman, my great grandmother. I appreciate any help that might be offered. Thank you. Mardell

Austrian Lloyd 1836 http://books.google.it/books?id=E01HAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA3&lpg=RA1-PA3&dq=Lloyd+Austriaco+1832&source=bl&ots=U5u2DuhTqq&sig=aGsLhc-1BmzZe7FssnYjBt8Hvlo&hl=it&ei=Mok5Tq2MIoudOsnMrbMD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hello Listers My problem is how can I find out the name if the ship or ships that my great grandfather Mark Ridley Baker sailed on. On his Seaman's Ticket it states that he was born at Robin Hood's Bay , 11th July 1828 when unemployed resides at Whitby. He first went to sea as an Apprentice 20 December 1843. Ticket issued at Sunderland 6 day of May 1845. The years 1949 and 1850 are blank. In 1951 he was a Seaman in June and a Mate in December. I have been unable to finding anything more about him until the following Censuses. On the 1851 Census he is lodging at a house in Middlesbrough, North Yorkshire. He married in 1852 and on the 1861 Census he is with his wife and 3 sons at 28 Dundas Street, Middlesbrough Does this mean that the ship/ships he was on is/are in Harbour at Middlesbrough? Looking forward to knowing any comments about this enquiry. Mary

Austrian lloyd 1843 http://books.google.com/books?id=IExHAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA139&dq=Lloyd+Austriaco+139&hl=it&ei=sIU5TvPuJZGn8QOW_smIAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Lloyd%20Austriaco%20139&f=false

Austrial Lloyd 1844 http://books.google.com/books?id=nkxHAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PR9&dq=Lloyd+Austriaco+1834&hl=it&ei=mYE5To74Aseg8QPn-fjgAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false