Hi Wondering where the Navy ship "ionvincible" would have been on the night of the 1881 census. Looking for the information on William Thomas Place who was a private RMLI Royal Marines ight Infantry. Do any of you with those lovely books have any infomtion as to where she was that night please or that year . Thanks Edie

I have uploaded a copy of the Register for this Vessel to our Gallery. http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6 Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: Mick To: Mariners List Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 10:54 AM Subject: [MAR] Return of the Colombo / Budget Morning listers I received a copy of the Register for this vessel from the Liverpool Museum this morning. Any one who would like a copy email me. Mick Mariners list ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

List Through Ancestry I recently got in touch with a long lost cousin – we share a 3 x Great Grandfather – Thomas Hodgson who was from Blyth, Northumberland, UK. I knew that he was qualified master mariner but she has several original documents relating to his service in the merchant marine. First was his apprentice agreement: He signed it in early January 1852 when he was fifteen, his master Emanuel Young agreed to teach him to become a seaman over a period of 4 years. His pay was to be a total of 29 pounds over the 4 years 3 pounds for the first, 6 pounds for the second, 8 pounds for the third and 12 for the final year + 12 shillings extra each year for doing his own washing. Some Questions for the list: Thomas’s parents did not sign the document (I have a copy of a weavers apprenticeship agreement from another branch of the family which was signed by the apprentices father) was that unusual? Would it imply some breakdown in family relations? Was the amount paid typical for the period? Whilst the agreement said that he was to be taught to be only to be a seaman Thomas qualified as a Master Mariner in 1859 about three years after the apprenticeship finished and claimed whilst giving evidence in a trial at the Old Bailey that he first sailed as 2ndMate in 1853 when he was 16 and whilst he was still an apprentice. So was the aim of the apprenticeship to train him as a merchant officer rather than as ordinary seaman as the text of the apprenticeship agreement implies? He obviously had good relations with his master as his 2nd son, my Great Great Grandfather, Thomas Emanuel Hodgson was named after him. Many thanks in anticipation Gavin Sent from my iPhone

Morning listers I received a copy of the Register for this vessel from the Liverpool Museum this morning. Any one who would like a copy email me. Mick Mariners list

Hi Edie I did not see a previous post re the Invincible but having just replied to someone on the Middlesex list on the very same request On the night of April 3rd 1881 HMS Invincible was in the Grand Harbour, Valetta, Malta She is listed as 2nd Class Armour Plated Capt or CO Captain Robert O'B FITZROY Station Mediterranean Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Should have read "Invincible" > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Edie McArthur > To: Mariners Rootsweb > Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 5:54 PM > Subject: Invincible > > > Hi > Wondering where the Navy ship "ionvincible" would have been on the night of the 1881 census. > Looking for the information on William Thomas Place who was a private RMLI Royal Marines ight > Infantry. Do any of you with those lovely books have any infomtion as to where she was that night > please or that year . > Thanks > Edie

Peter, I can help. The best reference for starting out on whaling voyages in the South Seas is A.G.E. Jones two books, Ships Employed on the South Seas Trade. Here's the ref to locate a Library near you that holds the two sets http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/12068443 and http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/34743956. "Mac" Jones packed a lot of information into the two books that were published by Roebuck Press, so it can take some time to gain the full value of his research. Here is a part of what I found in the shipping movements volume [with my translation in brackets]: 1816 29.3 Deal 26 Syren Christie to SS. [29 March 1816 issue of Lloyds List (LL) reports that the Syren, commanded by Christie, departed Deal for the South Seas (SS) three days earlier, on 26th] 1816 3.9. Syren to SS, all well, 14.5 x 3N. [3 Sept 1816 issue of LL - steering for the South Seas - the Syren is abeam of the Gulf of Guinea and about 200 miles SW of Sierra Leone] 1818 17.2. Sir Charles Price at Downs from Timor, sld, 16 Oct; left there Syren, Ranger, Ocean. Sir A. Hammond sld for England 10 days before Sir C. Price. [17 Feb 1818 issue of LL - The whaler Sir Charles Price, having arrived back from her voyage to the South Seas reported that the Syren and other whalers had been at Timor with her back in Oct 1817] A great source of LL Marine News is the digitized copies of LL performed by Michael Dun. go to http://www.1812privateers.org/Bibliography/ Please note that AGE Jones also worked from the arrivals and departures intelligence in LL. At this time this is not fully available in Michael's online resource - hence the possibility of Jones information not being locatable Michael's site. Other works of relevance are: John Cumpston's, Shipping arrivals and departures, Sydney, 1788-1825, http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/15987669 Robert Langdon; Where the whalers went : an index to the Pacific ports and islands visited by American whalers, and some other ships, in the 19th century, http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/18113681 Richards, Rhys (three books): Into the South Seas : the southern whale fishery comes of age on the Brazil Banks, 1765 to 1812 : a review of the whaling activities of American British, French, Spanish and Portuguese whalemen off Brazil and Patagonia before 1812, http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/31113824; Bay of Islands SAD [for NZ ship visits during 1803 to 1840's] http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/23446094 ; and his more recent work Tahiti and the Society Islands : shipping arrivals and departures, 1767 to 1852, http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/30829183 I'm working on the edited publication of a sailor narrative who was a Mate and later Master of a whaler. Though he does not name the Siren he names other whalers that were in company with your ship of interest. I'm located in Sydney, so you can contact me offlist if you have any specific questions. regards Chris Maxworthy AAMH <SNIP> Peter wrote: Can anyone tell me what the best sources of information/references are available to research a whaler - The Syren. It was owned by C & S Enderby from London. Apart from any details on the ship itself, I am most interested in a voyage that left Portsmouth on Nov 25, 1817 under Capt. Christie to carry out whaling in the South Pacific off the Chilean coast. My GGGG Grandfather, James Phillips was a mate on this voyage but unfortunately drowned on the voyage. (Poetic justice???? - maybe but they where different times ) If anyone on the Mariners list can give me pointers to find out more information about the ship and James Phillips I would be most grateful. Regards Peter Phillips

Mardell Am not sure what is happening here, but this may be your William, found by searching the main National Archives catalogue : could he be yours ? see : http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/search.asp Item reference ADM 157/177/235 . Folios 235-239. William Goodman, born Devon. Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Plymouth 1848 (when aged 20). Discharged 1863 as Limited Service. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5517827&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CGOODMAN&accessmethod=0 I would have thought that you might be able to order these papers, but have no idea of charges these days. Ignoring the Ships' Logs, ADM 53, I would have thought that he should be mentioned in the following : ADM 115/317 Ship Record and Establishment Books for the EDGAR Covering dates 1859 May 24-1862 July 10 or ADM 115/318 EDGAR 1859 May 24-1862 July 10 and ADM 115/319 EDGAR 1859 May 24-1862 July 10 or the Ships' Musters ADM 38/6086 Edgar. V. 1859 May 30-1860 March. ADM 38/6087 Edgar. V. 1860 April-Dec. ADM 38/6088 Edgar. V. 1861 Jan.-Sept. ADM 38/6089 Edgar. V. 1861 Oct.-1862 July. ADM 38/6090 Edgar. V. 1862 July 11-1863 March. ADM 38/6091 Edgar. V. 1863 April-Dec. But these are usually large volumes and you would either need a researcher or helpful list member to search these. Details of researchers can be found at : http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/irlist/ But living in London and the surrounding area is expensive, so no doubt charges will be made accordingly and it would probably pay you to look carefully at the various areas of research and ask those you select for quotes ! And of course read what the National Archives have to say on the web page ! Paul On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 05:04:46 -0700 (PDT), TRAVIS GITCHEL <mgitchel@bellsouth.net> wrote: >Goodmorning, >        With so much help, I am making some progress. The Ships Book ADM 135/148 >is the Edgar's recordbook, only availible at the Archives. Does anyone know of a >person or persons who do research at the Archives? I did find a list of names of >people who do genealogy reseach bur none who specialize in naval genealogy. Also >we have people who do "Random Acts of Kindness, RAK charging only for expenses. >Is there such a group in the UK? > >        I know about Wills and his siblings in the Bath Workhouse, the death of >his mother after childbirth and poor baby Emma who only lived a very short time. > >        Little by little, I am closing in on him.               Mardell > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Dear Paul,         thank you so much. I have found RW O'Hara who does research at the National Archives. As I have a new computer and everything has not yet been installed, I cannot bring up his email address. Does anyone know how to contact Bob O'Hara so that I might get things started sorting out old Wills. The person you found was older and my boy came from Somerset.                                Mardell

Goodmorning,         With so much help, I am making some progress. The Ships Book ADM 135/148 is the Edgar's recordbook, only availible at the Archives. Does anyone know of a person or persons who do research at the Archives? I did find a list of names of people who do genealogy reseach bur none who specialize in naval genealogy. Also we have people who do "Random Acts of Kindness, RAK charging only for expenses. Is there such a group in the UK?         I know about Wills and his siblings in the Bath Workhouse, the death of his mother after childbirth and poor baby Emma who only lived a very short time.         Little by little, I am closing in on him.               Mardell

Hi, I am a newbie to the world of sailing ships and researching information. I posted a question about a month ago but did not receive any responses so I probably asked the wrong questions. Can anyone tell me what the best sources of information/references are available to research a whaler - The Syren. It was owned by C & S Enderby from London. Apart from any details on the ship itself, I am most interested in a voyage that left Portsmouth on Nov 25, 1817 under Capt. Christie to carry out whaling in the South Pacific off the Chilean coast. My GGGG Grandfather, James Phillips was a mate on this voyage but unfortunately drowned on the voyage. (Poetic justice???? - maybe but they where different times ) If anyone on the Mariners list can give me pointers to find out more information about the ship and James Phillips I would be most grateful. Regards Peter Phillips

Hello Eunice DEFRIEZ, William Webb b.London 1838 Yes, his place and year of birth C22935 London 1864 His master's certificate number, gained by examination in London in 1864 (ie at age 26-ish) vol.4 1864-73; vol.18 1874-76; vol.31 no voyages listed His name appears in these 3 volumes of Lloyd's Captains register, now kept at the London Metropolitan archives. They have not been scanned or filmed, as far as I know, and you (or someone for you) will have to look at the original ledger books. While his name appears on at least one occasion in the volumes for 1864-73 and 1874-76 with details of ships on which he served as either mate or master, volume 31 doesn't show any voyages recorded. These volumes actually only show foreign voyages notified to Lloyds and there may have been other voyages (particularly those originating from the then colonies) which Lloyds never found out about. Subject to that you may expect to find the names and Official Numbers of the vessels on which he served as master or mate, with the date of appointment and a rough indication of the destination. The colour of the ink, and whether the ship's name is underlined or not, can be significant - underlining usually means an appointment as mate. Many qualified masters served as mates for some years before obtaining a command. These details (particularly the Official Number) may enable you to obtain copies of the crew agreements (and official logs, if they still exist) which will give you more information about the voyages. A good starting point is the Newfoundland website http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php It may also enable you to look the voyages in question up in Lloyds List (and sometimes other newspaper reports) to get an idea of the itinerary (which you can usually work out from the crew agreement anyway) or there may also be mention of some other event like a death, grounding, or some other item of interest. Having the certificate number enables you to ask the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich (they have email - just google for the Caird Library) whether they have his applications for examination. These should list the vessels on which he served up to the date of the last examination, which would enable you to reconstruct his earlier career by similarly checking Lloyds List and Crew Agreements for the vessels in question. Further guidance here http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKMasters.html and here http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKMerchantNavyIndex.html . Both need to be updated but are still pretty sound. Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Eunice Donovan Sent: 07 August 2011 01:10 To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Master Mariner details Hi everyone I'm rather a newbie at this, so I apologise in advance for what might be a "dumb" question! I've discovered the following information in the Index to the Captains Registers of Lloyd's of London, about my great-grandfather: DEFRIEZ, William Webb b.London 1838 C22935 London 1864 vol.4 1864-73; vol.18 1874-76; vol.31 no voyages listed I certainly get that he was born in London in 1838 - is the next bit his licence number or something like that? What sort of information is available in the "volumes" listed? I would appreciate any help interpreting the details - thank you! Kind regards Eunice Queensland, Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found a HMS EDgar at this site, there are several if you do a Google. this one was built in 1779 at Woolwich http://en.wikipedia/wiki/HMS_Edgar_ Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Beeston" <mausoleus@bigpond.com> To: "TRAVIS GITCHEL" <mgitchel@bellsouth.net>; <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Marines > HMS EDGAR paid off and recommissioned, on at least one occasion, at > Portsmouth so it is a reasonable assumption that Portsmouth was her home > port. > > Peter Beeston > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TRAVIS GITCHEL > Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 10:46 PM > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MAR] Royal Marines > > Good morning all, > I had a very prompt reply from the TNA. I might be able to make > some > progress finding old William if I can ascertain the home port of his ship, > the > HMS Edgar, which was part of the Channel Fleet. As I am in the states and > all > my relatives were in the US Navy, I am a bit "at sea" in this matter. > Thank > you > Mardell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi everyone I'm rather a newbie at this, so I apologise in advance for what might be a "dumb" question! I've discovered the following information in the Index to the Captains Registers of Lloyd's of London, about my great-grandfather: DEFRIEZ, William Webb b.London 1838 C22935 London 1864 vol.4 1864-73; vol.18 1874-76; vol.31 no voyages listed I certainly get that he was born in London in 1838 - is the next bit his licence number or something like that? What sort of information is available in the "volumes" listed? I would appreciate any help interpreting the details - thank you! Kind regards Eunice Queensland, Australia

As suggested here. http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/18-1900/E/01547.html HTH Judy London, UK -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Peter Beeston HMS EDGAR paid off and recommissioned, on at least one occasion, at Portsmouth so it is a reasonable assumption that Portsmouth was her home port. -----Original Message----- From: TRAVIS GITCHEL Good morning all, I had a very prompt reply from the TNA. I might be able to make some progress finding old William if I can ascertain the home port of his ship, the HMS Edgar, which was part of the Channel Fleet. As I am in the states and all my relatives were in the US Navy, I am a bit "at sea" in this matter. Thank you Mardell

HMS EDGAR paid off and recommissioned, on at least one occasion, at Portsmouth so it is a reasonable assumption that Portsmouth was her home port. Peter Beeston -----Original Message----- From: TRAVIS GITCHEL Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 10:46 PM To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Royal Marines Good morning all, I had a very prompt reply from the TNA. I might be able to make some progress finding old William if I can ascertain the home port of his ship, the HMS Edgar, which was part of the Channel Fleet. As I am in the states and all my relatives were in the US Navy, I am a bit "at sea" in this matter. Thank you Mardell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

After finding the stern of an 18th-century sailing vessel in landfill where the new World Trade Center is being constructed, what could be better? Finding the bow - or at least enough to gain a clearer picture of the length of the vessel and how it was constructed; all of which might help solve the mystery of what it was doing anchored off Lower Manhattan in the first place. http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/the-world-trade-center-ship-from-stern-to-stem/ Jane

Hi Jonathan, I cannot assist with info on your grandfather but i am sending you a photograph of his ship,the PENCARROW.Hope it is of interest. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Rao" <jonathan.rao@sky.com> To: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:09 PM Subject: [MAR] Samuel Gibbs Rao >i am trying to find out information about my grandfather Samuel Gibbs Rao, > he served on a ship called the ss pencarrow sailing out of barry dock > south > wales uk (carrying coal). i do not know his nationallity or where he > originally came from, or if he served on any other ships can you help > please > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

on 05 Aug 2011 Ted Finch wrote I have found mention of this ship in a book on Evan Thomas Radcliffe, Cardiff but cannot find it in the registers. Radcliffe Venturer, 504 g.t., built 1964, ex-Tilly (1969), ex-Henriette (1972), ex-Hattstedt (1974), ex-Bea (1980). Built by N.V.Bodewes Scheepswerven, Martenshoek, Netherlands, 1980 purchased from Baltic Schooner Association, Cayman Islands. Did this vessel actually exist and if so, why not in the registers? >>>>>>>>> Not a phantom! I note that Miramar has a lot of gaps in coverage of this type of ship for this period. Some builders are completely missing - in this case some big gaps for Bodewes/Hoogezand. Following is a bit skeletal, from what I have to hand. IMO 6400549 496grt 328nrt 960dwt 55.3/60.13 x 9.25 x 4.04m built 1964 Bodewes' Scheepswerven NV, Hoogezand (Yd 475)[probably built at Martenshoek] M6cy 4SA 496kW 674bhp 11kn MaK MSU423 1964 TILLY, Jan Tavenier, Zaandam (NLD flag) 1969 HENRIETTE H (DEU flag) 1972 HATTSTEDT (DEU flag) 1974 BEA (FIN flag) 19xx BEA, Baltic Schooner Association (CYM flag) 1980 RADCLIFFE VENTURER, Evan Thomas Radcliffe (GBR flag) 1983 NEW VENTURE (GBR flag) 1985 PAULINE S, S & P Shipping Ltd (CYM flag) 1990 MAK H-1, MAK Holdings Ltd, Castries, St Lucia (VCT flag) 12/7/1991 stranded on Ave de Sotavento reef in 11° 05' N, 67° 37' W, about 60nm NE of Puerto Cabello, Venezuela 25/7/1991 abandoned as total loss photos & info here http://beejee.home.xs4all.nl/1965-03/TILLY-18-07-07.htm http://www.shipsunderway.co.uk/radcliffe_venturer.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Thomas_Radcliffe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RadcliffeTraderVenturer.jpg David

Good morning all,          I had a very prompt  reply from the TNA. I might be able to make some progress finding old William if I can ascertain the home port of his ship, the HMS Edgar, which was part of the Channel Fleet.  As I am in the states and all my relatives were in the US Navy, I am a bit "at sea"  in this matter. Thank you Mardell

Hi Ted Thanks for the scanned article. will report later. Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Finch To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Ships Monthly - Limerick Steamship Company Hi Mick, Found them!! They contain a simple fleet list of about 50 ships - is there anything I can look up for you? Ted