Hi, Can anyone provide me with any information on the small steamer HOLMAN SUTCLIFFE built 1867 I cannot find it listed in MIRAMAR. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Joe McMillan, South Australia.

Paul, I had always thought that the difference in age and occupation would not preclude the possibility that this is the person I am looking for although I must admit that I have nothing to support this view other than general experience of incorrect information on records. I must also admit that the only reason that I think the death record may be of my relative is that I can find no other record of a death that could possibly be him. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Paul Benyon Sent: 15 September 2011 17:32 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:08:03 +0100, "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: >Although then as now men changed occupation and ages can be varied on >death records, I would not think a man 10 years different in age and as >a Carpenter would be likely to be yours? Joseph >CLARK(E) is not an uncommon name Must admit that I was thinking along the same lines as Nivard Paul 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Nivard, I did say that he was shown in the 1881 census as a ship's steward. This was incorrect; it was the birth certificate of one of his children in 1881 that showed him as a ship's steward. The 1887 record showing him as a purser was the marriage certificate of another child. Joseph had married Elizabeth Simmons in Liverpool in 1864. The last census record I have of him in 1861 when he was described as an accountant's clerk living with his parents at Kirkdale, Liverpool. His wife and children can be found on the 1871 census but he is missing so he may have been away at sea although in 1879 on another child's birth certificate he is described as a storekeeper. I cannot find his death in England/Wales. I know that he must have died or was missing presumed dead sometime after the last record of him in 1887 and 1891 when the census shows that Joseph's brother was living with Joseph's wife and describing themselves as man and wife although they were not married. (It was still illegal at that time for a man to marry his brother's wife). I had the impression that it was quite possible that a man may go to sea on one voyage as a purser and another as a carpenter and that ship's carpenters were not what we, today, know as time served tradesmen. I think that the 10 year difference in age could well be just an error. He certainly did not die in the area where his home was. I have been through all the burial and well as death records. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 15 September 2011 17:08 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman Hi David Where are you finding a Joseph CLARKE in the 1881 as a ships steward as I can't replicate your findings The only Joseph CLARK* I can find in 1881 as a Ship Steward was born in Somerset in 1856 Was your man married to an Emma ? If so he is in the 1881 as a Clerk aged 40 born Liverpool in West Derby And where are you finding him as a Purser in 1887? Although then as now men changed occupation and ages can be varied on death records, I would not think a man 10 years different in age and as a Carpenter would be likely to be yours? Joseph CLARK(E) is not an uncommon name Have you discounted the deaths registered 1881 to 1921 ? there are seven in Lancashire alone and he could have died anywhere If you can post more details of who he married, children etc we may be able to find something on him Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My gg grandfather, Joseph Clarke, was born in Liverpool in 1841. > Records of him up to 1881 showed him to be a bookkeeper. In the 1881 > census, however, he is described as a ship's steward and in 1887 a > record shows him as a purser. After that there is no further record of > him and there is no oral history in the family of what became of him. > I think that he probably died while abroad or at sea. > > The only possible death at sea record is the death of a Joseph Clarke > on 16th June 1889. This was on the 'SS State of Navada' a Glasgow > registered ship number 653. This Joseph is described as a carpenter > aged 58. My Joseph would have been 48. Despite the difference in age > and occupation I think that this may have been him. > > Can anyone offer any advice as to how I might be able to research this > further. > > David ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 17:08:03 +0100, "Nivard Ovington" <ovington1@sky.com> wrote: >Although then as now men changed occupation and ages can be varied on death records, I would not >think a man 10 years different in age and as a Carpenter would be likely to be yours? Joseph >CLARK(E) is not an uncommon name Must admit that I was thinking along the same lines as Nivard Paul 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi David Where are you finding a Joseph CLARKE in the 1881 as a ships steward as I can't replicate your findings The only Joseph CLARK* I can find in 1881 as a Ship Steward was born in Somerset in 1856 Was your man married to an Emma ? If so he is in the 1881 as a Clerk aged 40 born Liverpool in West Derby And where are you finding him as a Purser in 1887? Although then as now men changed occupation and ages can be varied on death records, I would not think a man 10 years different in age and as a Carpenter would be likely to be yours? Joseph CLARK(E) is not an uncommon name Have you discounted the deaths registered 1881 to 1921 ? there are seven in Lancashire alone and he could have died anywhere If you can post more details of who he married, children etc we may be able to find something on him Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > My gg grandfather, Joseph Clarke, was born in Liverpool in 1841. Records of > him up to 1881 showed him to be a bookkeeper. In the 1881 census, however, > he is described as a ship's steward and in 1887 a record shows him as a > purser. After that there is no further record of him and there is no oral > history in the family of what became of him. I think that he probably died > while abroad or at sea. > > The only possible death at sea record is the death of a Joseph Clarke on > 16th June 1889. This was on the 'SS State of Navada' a Glasgow registered > ship number 653. This Joseph is described as a carpenter aged 58. My Joseph > would have been 48. Despite the difference in age and occupation I think > that this may have been him. > > Can anyone offer any advice as to how I might be able to research this > further. > > David

Bonjour Chers Amis, I am looking for photos of CAMPUCHEA , she was entered for mercantile service mainly in Indochina and China between 1949 and 1956 after conversion by Sorel Shipyard in Canada. She was before HMCS HAWKESBURY, Corvette of the Revised Flower Class Increased Endurance 1942-1943 Program built in Canada, commissined at Quebec City on 14 June 1944 and paid off on 10 July 1945 at Sydney. You can see a very good photo in the excellent book “THE SHIPS OF CANADA’S NAVAL FORCES 1910-2002” by Ken Macpherson & Ron Barrie. Anybody could help me, perhaps? Many thanks. Yves from France Please excuse me for this disturb in bad English but the school and the job are a little far now.

Hi David I think the Vessel was State Of Nevada, Official No 71653 Crew lists are available at the Maritime History Archive , you can purchase them on line. http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=71653 Maybe some one else on the list can tell us what type details are contained on an 1889 crew list ? . Let us know how you get on. Mick Mariners List ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Railton" <railton.david@btinternet.com> To: "MARINERS@rootsweb" <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:01 PM Subject: [MAR] Missing Seaman > My gg grandfather, Joseph Clarke, was born in Liverpool in 1841. Records > of > him up to 1881 showed him to be a bookkeeper. In the 1881 census, however, > he is described as a ship's steward and in 1887 a record shows him as a > purser. After that there is no further record of him and there is no oral > history in the family of what became of him. I think that he probably died > while abroad or at sea. > > > > The only possible death at sea record is the death of a Joseph Clarke on > 16th June 1889. This was on the 'SS State of Navada' a Glasgow registered > ship number 653. This Joseph is described as a carpenter aged 58. My > Joseph > would have been 48. Despite the difference in age and occupation I think > that this may have been him. > > > > Can anyone offer any advice as to how I might be able to research this > further. > > > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My gg grandfather, Joseph Clarke, was born in Liverpool in 1841. Records of him up to 1881 showed him to be a bookkeeper. In the 1881 census, however, he is described as a ship's steward and in 1887 a record shows him as a purser. After that there is no further record of him and there is no oral history in the family of what became of him. I think that he probably died while abroad or at sea. The only possible death at sea record is the death of a Joseph Clarke on 16th June 1889. This was on the 'SS State of Navada' a Glasgow registered ship number 653. This Joseph is described as a carpenter aged 58. My Joseph would have been 48. Despite the difference in age and occupation I think that this may have been him. Can anyone offer any advice as to how I might be able to research this further. David

Hi Joe Clip lists one built as Lady Alice Kenly Registered in Belfast 1868 Renamed and Reg,d in Boston 1908. Mick O Rourke Mariners Mailing list

Hi Joe, Photo at http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1907-Photo-Postcard-Tug-SS-Holman-Sutcliffe-Goole-UK-/370531346704 O.N.60309, built by J & R. Swan, Maryhill as LADY ALICE KENLIS, registered Belfast, 1878 registered Preston, 1908 registered Boston renamed HOLMAN SUTCLIFFE, iron hull, 214 gross tons, length 130.5ft x beam 19.6ft, 1917 owned by Mary J. Peters, Bristol, in 1933 she was recorded as "laid up" see http://www.pbase.com/pgalena/image/132691058 I Have no info on her fate but she is listed in Miramar as Lady Alice Kenlis. Probably scrapped shortly after 1933. regards Ted On 15/09/2011 10:45, Joe McMillan wrote: > Hi, > Can anyone provide me with any information on the small steamer HOLMAN SUTCLIFFE built 1867 > I cannot find it listed in MIRAMAR. > Any info would be greatly appreciated. > Thank you in advance, > Joe McMillan, > South Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Could anyone Tell me Please if there are Crew Lists for Mariners Out of > WHITSTABLE ,Kent ,I am researching > (very slowly) My Grandfather Charles Noble who I believe as a Teenager ran > away to sea ,whether He was on an Oyster boat or whatever I don't know but > would be very pleased if someone could help me. > DON

----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Woodford" <donwoodf@dwoodford.freeserve.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 8:15 AM Subject: Re: MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 291 > Could anyone Tell me Please if there are Crew Lists for Mariners Out of > WHITSTABLE ,Kent ,I am researching > (very slowly) My Grandfather Charles Noble who I believe as a Teenager ran > away to sea ,whether He was on an Oyster boat or whatever I don't know but > would be very pleased if someone could help me. > DON

Could you unsub me from my old addy ediemc@bigpond.com please just changed my addy and resubbed on eamca@bigpond.com Edie

Bryan, thank you for you your reply, great insight to this problem, greatley appreciated, max ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Richards" <bryanrichards@btinternet.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] CREW LISTS > Hi Max > > I have completed the indexing of Crew list from National Archives BT > 98/507 > Port of Registry ~ Swansea Ships Names ~ A-G 1835-1844 > and now started Crew list from National Archives BT 98/810 Port of > Registry ~ Swansea Ships Names ~ A - Q 1845. > Also so far completed West Glamorgan Archives 1862 to 1882 and 1890 to > 1894. > Indexing on going. > > The 1835-1844 are very porly kept records. In many cases they are not full > names, but initials with surnames. Also the use of abbreviations > like Jno and Jos. for John and Joseph. Surnames vary in spelling for the > same mariner. Ages are sometimes left off. > Place of birth are town names only and in some cases are not the same for > the same mariner. Seamans Ticket No. very sparse. > Previous ships missing, dates of joining and leaving are sometimes just he > year or month and dates of leaving or arriving back into port > are blank. I have had to interpret a lot of the data and hunt down ship > arrivals to make sense of some of the crew lists. > The crew lists are in boxes of rough alphabetic order and filed under Port > Rotation No. There is some mis-filing, of ships from other > ports especially where the ship sailed out on one register and arrived > back > on another. i.e Sailed as Sunderland ship > and became a Swansea Registered ship and vice versa. > > Port Rotation No.s on my website have been interpreted into Port No.s for > Swansea by referring the masters > name on the crew lists and comparing it to thar on the Custom House > Register, which contains the Master's name > and subsequent master's date of appointment .Taking the master's name on > the crew list and comparing it allows > one to identify the ship especially when you have a ship called "Ann" and > there are several > in the box with rotation No's like 96/331 96/90 96/42 where 96 is the > Port > of Swansea and the other No's are rotation numbers > referring to ships called "Ann" on the crew agreements. Many agreements > are > damaged and unreadable in parts. > > > With the 1845, I now find they are in better condition and so far I have > done A to B and they give the Port No of the ship > and the Seamans Ticket No. and where registered with a date. Also the > apprentices Indenture date and where registered. > But one or two have missing ages, previous ships and dates of signing off. > Signing on dates again in one or two cases only > show a year. Again there are some damaged crew lists. > > Regards > Bryan Richards > www.swanseamariners.org.uk > over 80,000 entries of mariners from the UK and other parts of the world > who > sailed on Swansea Registered ships, > 1862 to 1882 and 1890 to 1894 and 1835 to 1844 complete. Crew lists for > trawlers and Milford Haven also included > and samples from other ports. Swansea ship owners from the Custom House > register, Marine data marriage bonds of all Welsh mariners, Some impressed > men from South Wales > and West of England, etc. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thanks Doug, but the list seems to have stripped out the attachments, so perhaps you could send them to me privately I have all the family information, Census etc. but he never appears on them, which may indicate he was out of the country what I would like to find are records of his voyages, ships etc. Likewise John Sansbury, who should be on a deaths at sea register but I haven't it Mike Mike Constantine Timaru New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Nichols" <nichols_doug@yahoo.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] John SANSBURY and John TEARE (was Searching LloydsRegistersetc in UK) > Hi Mike, > > There are a couple of censuses that include your John Teare's family, and > his probate record is on Ancestry. > > I am attaching a couple of files for you which I hope will be useful. > > There are crew lists showing a John Teare, ship's engineer aged 40 ish in > the 1920's - too late for your man but possibly a relative? > > Incidentally William Sansbury Teare married at Liverpool in 1902. > > Regards, > > Doug Nichols, UK > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Constantine" <mwconstantine@gmail.com> > To: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 8:43 AM > Subject: [MAR] John SANSBURY and John TEARE (was Searching Lloyds > Registersetc in UK) > > >> Hi >> >> Thanks to Paul and Pete for your replies to my previous post >> >> The two family members I am researching are: >> >> John SANSBURY Master Mariner born August 1811, Rushen, Isle of Man, died >> 5 >> Jan 1867 swept overboard in a storm off Guernsey, English Channel. >> Married Ann SHIMMIN 29 April 1842 Kirk Rushen Isle of Man >> >> Two of his known ships are the Herald and the Crest (he was Master of the >> Crest when he died) - I have just found details of those on CLIP - thanks >> Pete. >> >> We believe he worked the coastal trade, (I have details of his 1845 >> voyages) and know he went to the Baltic as he was presented with a punch >> bowl by a Danish shipping agent in 1851 (the Sansbury Elsinor Bowl is in >> the Manx Museum) >> >> >> John TEARE Ships Engineer born 8 March 1840 Isle of Man, died Liverpool >> 24 >> Feb 1927 >> Married Jane SANSBURY (the oldest daughter of John SANSBURY) 4 April >> 1865 >> Walton on the Hill, Liverpool >> >> We have no information on his career at all, though there is anecdotal >> evidence (from a Great niece) of him visiting the engine room of the >> Titanic at Southampton before it sailed, so perhaps he worked for White >> Star line? and I have a photo of him in New Orleans >> >> He doesn't appear in any Census that I have found. >> >> We have full information on both men's families, but virtually nothing on >> their careers, so if anyone can help with information or suggestions as >> to >> the best places to do research, (my daughter is in England for the next 5 >> weeks) it would be much appreciated >> . >> >> Thanks >> Mike >> >> Mike Constantine >> Timaru New Zealand >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Forwarded - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: The Steam Ship lord Dufferin From Peter Blake - Cardiff Wales UK Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2011 18:46:59 +0100 From: Peter Blake <peter@angleviews.com> To: <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> Dear Sirs, I was extreemly pleased to find your site today which had a mention of the ship that my grand father ( William Reginald Blake) had been a crew member. For many years I have been looking for information and photographs of this vessel called the SS Lord Dufferin, on which my grand father had been an engineer. My grand father did a painting of the above vessel (see attached) and a cutting of the accident in which she was evolved, this may be of may be of interest to your readers. If any body has a photograph of the vessel in port, or further details of the ship, including her crew, I would be very interested to see them. Yours Sincerely, Peter David Blake Cardiff , Wales UK

Hi Peter, I read your letter about crew lists for fishermen sailing out of Greenwich 1833-1845 and wondered if you collected a comprehensive list or just the ones pertaining to your own family? I have had a good researcher (now retired) but am always looking for more information. Kind regards, Julie On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Peter Enlund <penlund@bigpond.com.au>wrote: > Dear Max > > What is on them all depends on the dates you are looking for. > > I have crew lists from 1833 - 1845 for fishermen sailing out of Greenwich > and there is no ticket number on those, whereas in 1848 there are. > > A word of caution though. The lists are in very large cardboard boxes, in > absolutely no order whatsoever and are exceptionally fragile papers. The > boxes do not contain every vessel for a particular year range. It is a slow > process to look through each box and examine each document and whilst you > may be lucky in having the researcher hit paydirt quickly, you could turn > up > nothing at all and find it has taken many hours to do so. I have spent many > hours trawling through boxes, spending on average an hour on each at least. > That being said, the port was London. It may be less time consuming for > smaller ports. > > Before you commit, ask what the researcher's own experience has been in > this > type of search as they should be able to give you a reasonable estimate of > what they think each could take. For me, trawling through those boxes, or > anything else at the National Archives for that matter, is such a wonderful > way to spend a holiday. > > I will send you some examples off line > > Good luck. > > Peter Enlund > Armidale NSW > Australia > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "max johnson" <maxjohn@tpg.com.au> > To: <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:17 PM > Subject: [MAR] CREW LISTS > > > > a question for those who know > > the national archives, agreements and crew list: 1835 - 1860. > > states it provides the following, > > first & surname,age,place of birth,quality,ship on which last served,date > > and place of joining ship,time and place of death and how disposed. > > it does not mention listing the seamans reference number, > > does crew list include the seamans reference number? > > i am trying to connect three seamen with the same name the common link > > would be their reference number. > > i am writting from australia so befor commiting to a uk based resercher,i > > would like to have an idea of my sucess chances. max > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Mike If your daughter is in London and you know or suspect that your mariners held certificates its worth visiting the London Metropolitan archive where they hold the original captains registers. They are available in microfiche at various libraries but they are often in very poor condition and difficult to read. The originals are magnificent and contain a wealth of detail about qualifying voyages. http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm I saw them at the guildhall library but they have now moved - not sure about procedures at the LMA Good luck Gavin On 08/09/2011 23:51, Paul Benyon wrote: > Mike > > I would guess that there is a good deal more information on-line these > days compared with when you were last on the list, such as Google > Books and on-line newspapers etc. > > I doubt I can help, but in case others can, would suggest that you > perhaps mention a couple of names and possible ages and if you've got > them or their families in the census etc. ? > > Research guides can be found on the Mariners List web site, the > National Maritime Museum and the National Archives : > > www.mariners-l.co.uk/ > > http://www.nmm.ac.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/ > > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guide-listing.htm > > Paul > > On Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:05:56 +1200, "Mike Constantine" > <mwconstantine@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Hi >> >> I've just rejoined this list after some years. >> >> My daughter will be in the UK shortly and is hoping to do some research on a >> Manx Master Mariner (1811-1867) and a Manx Ships Engineer (1840-1927), and >> we'd appreciate any suggestions as to the best place to do this, the >> Registers she will need to access and how much time would be needed. >> >> We have very little information on either of the people, so are looking for >> any details of their careers, voyages, qualifications etc. >> >> Any help would be much appreciated >> >> Cheers >> >> Mike Constantine >> Timaru New Zealand >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi All I need the assistance of one of our American Brothers or Sisters in a task, volunteers mail me off list please. Thank You Mick O Rourke Mariners Mailing List

a question for those who know the national archives, agreements and crew list: 1835 - 1860. states it provides the following, first & surname,age,place of birth,quality,ship on which last served,date and place of joining ship,time and place of death and how disposed. it does not mention listing the seamans reference number, does crew list include the seamans reference number? i am trying to connect three seamen with the same name the common link would be their reference number. i am writting from australia so befor commiting to a uk based resercher,i would like to have an idea of my sucess chances. max