Hello Edna,   You are lucky. I have bought very many wills looking for details of dispositions of ships and only one of the lot mentioned any ships by name. Here are some links for you.   1) Shipping from Cumberland ports:    http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/shipping_f.html   which contains:   1811 list of Whitehaven shipping with master and principal owner names http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/whitehaven_shipping1811_f.html   1840 list of Whitehaven shipping with master and principal owner names http://www.stevebulman.f9.co.uk/cumbria/whitehaven_shipping_f.html   There are ships of your names in those lists, but since the dates are a bit off your event dates of 1806 and 1833, these may simply be other ships of the same names as all four of yours are names commonly used.   You can compare the data on these lists with the information in Lloyd's Registers. Here is a link to the online volumes of those: http://www.maritimearchives.co.uk/lloyds-register.html   Warning: To fit the columns, some names are truncated e.g. Whtvn = Whitehaven, Wrktn = Workington, Mrypt = Maryport etc.   The 1805-1806 edition of Lloyd's List (twice weekly marine newspaper) is also online at that maritimearchives link, but not the 1833 edition.   Was it 16 January, 1832 that your Jonathan Harrison died "at his house, in George-street, Whitehaven"? Was the daughter Sarah Bowman married to Captain John Bowman (wondering if JH bought shares in ships of which his son-in-law was master)?   Regards, Adi   --- On Fri, 9/16/11, edna palmer <edna.palmer@googlemail.com> wrote: I have just received the following information from family wills and hope the list can help me to discover more about these vessels and any pertinent information Will proved 1806  of Jonathan Harrison joiner of Parton,  1 32nd share of Ship "Success" to my son William Harrison Will proved 1833 Jonathan Harrison to my daughter Sarah Bowman, 1 32nd share of each of the following vessels "Samuel"  "Endeavour" "Betsy" also 1 16th share of the Brig "Brothers"   all of the Port of Whitehaven Thank you Edna Palmer

Thanks Peter I see from Miramar she was re-engined in 1915 with a triple expansion engine, the Carels can't have been up to the job if it was changed after 3 years ? . Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Klein" <klein84@btinternet.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] British Vessel Eavestone Hello Mick, I did find contemporary references in the Times in 1912/13 to two vessels that were fitted with Diesel engines - Fordonian, 2000 tons, "intended for Canadian lake service", built by the Clyde Shipbuilding Company; and Eavestone, 1781 tons, Furness Withy Line, built by Messrs. Richardsons, Westgarth, & Co., both fitted with engines of Carels type. These appear to have been the first two large diesel-engined ships built in the UK, and the Eavestone was indeed owned by a British company, which I suppose sort of answers your enquirer's very specific question. I can check further tomorrow to see whether I can find something more specific as an answer. Best regards, PK ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners List <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 16 September 2011, 22:08 Subject: [MAR] British Vessel Eavestone I have an inquiry to my website re the British Vessel Eavestone. Was this the first large British owned sea-going vessel equipped with a Diesel engine, produced under joint license of Carels Freres and Diesel Engine Company. ? Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Mick, I did find contemporary references in the Times in 1912/13 to two vessels that were fitted with Diesel engines - Fordonian, 2000 tons, "intended for Canadian lake service", built by the Clyde Shipbuilding Company; andEavestone,  1781 tons, Furness Withy Line, built by Messrs. Richardsons, Westgarth, & Co., both fitted with engines of Carels type.  These appear to have been the first two large diesel-engined ships built in the UK, and the Eavestone was indeed owned by a British company, which I suppose sort of answers your enquirer's very specific question.  I can check further tomorrow to see whether I can find something more specific as an answer. Best regards, PK ________________________________ From: Mick <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: Mariners List <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, 16 September 2011, 22:08 Subject: [MAR] British Vessel Eavestone I have an inquiry to my website re the British Vessel Eavestone. Was this the first large British owned sea-going vessel equipped with a Diesel engine, produced under joint license of Carels Freres and Diesel Engine Company. ? Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have an inquiry to my website re the British Vessel Eavestone. Was this the first large British owned sea-going vessel equipped with a Diesel engine, produced under joint license of Carels Freres and Diesel Engine Company. ? Mick O Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com

I do not know anything about EAVESTONE, but there were four diesel or diesel-electric "canallers" (Great Lakes vessels built to St. Lawrence Canal dimensions - necessary to make the transit from the Atlantic to the lakes) built in Britain in 1911-13. TOILER was the first, 1,659 gross tons built by Swan Hunter and Wigham Richardson in 1911. She was followed by CALGARY which was similar except that she had a funnel and after superstructure (both of which were absent in TOILER) and she was geared (masts and booms) whereas TOILER was not. The third was FORDONIAN built by the Clyde Shipbuilding Co. in 1912. The fourth was TYNEMOUNT of 1913. She was actually diesel-electric. 1,644 tons gross. All four were re-engined with triple expansion within a relatively short time. They were seagoing, not only demonstrated that they had to cross the Atlantic to get to the lakes but also because some of them and many other canallers worked in the Atlantic and in European waters during both world wars. John in chilly Kingston Ontario -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 5:08 PM To: "Mariners List" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Subject: [MAR] British Vessel Eavestone > I have an inquiry to my website re the British Vessel Eavestone. > Was this the first large British owned sea-going vessel equipped with a > Diesel engine, produced under joint license of Carels Freres and Diesel > Engine Company. ? > > Mick O Rourke > > www.irishshipwrecks.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have just received the following information from family wills and hope the list can help me to discover more about these vessels and any pertinent information Will proved 1806 of Jonathan Harrison joiner of Parton, 1 32nd share of Ship "Success" to my son William Harrison Will proved 1833 Jonathan Harrison to my daughter Sarah Bowman, 1 32nd share of each of the following vessels "Samuel" "Endeavour" "Betsy" also 1 16th share of the Brig "Brothers" all of the Port of Whitehaven Thank you Edna Palmer

Lauretta, Joseph did not have a brother named Thomas - not sure where this name has come from. He did, however, have a brother, Ebenezer, who was a ship's steward who became a ship's carpenter; he is described as such on the census return for the vessel Oakmore in 1901. Elizabeth Clarke was Joseph's wife. Her maiden surname was Simmons. There is no mother in law mentioned on the 1891 census entry for Elizabeth. Don't know of a Singleton. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of L Harris Sent: 16 September 2011 19:47 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman I agree regarding changing from a purser to a carpenter which was a very skilled craft at sea. Most unlikely especially as Joseph was training in 1861 Census as an accountant's clerk. Joseph's father Peter was working throughout his career for HM Customs & Revenue. In the census returns their neighbours are also in the same type of employment. Looking for Joseph in these records as a purser or clerk seems a more likely chance of finding him. As for Elizabeth Clarke in 1891, does the mother-in-law have the right surname [Singleton]? If not, I doubt that Thomas is your Joseph's brother. Lauretta in London UK > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 23:04:25 +0100 > Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman > > Hi again > > I am quite happy to be told otherwise but ships carpenters were always > time served and very much a trade > > Personally I cannot see a clerk, storeman or purser all of which may > have been carried out by the same man being found as a carpenter at > any time > > Ships carpenters were a vital part of the ships crew, moreso in the > days of sail and less so with the iron ships but still necessary, > perhaps they needed to be more versatile in later years but an > ordinary seaman would not have passed for a carpenter > > No more than a carpenter would pass for a purser or clerk > > I would be more than surprised if the carpenter is your missing man > > If you post the census refs you have perhaps we can find more > > You say he must have died after 1887 when he is given as father on the > marriage cert > > Did he act as witness? otherwise the lack of the word "deceased" does > not mean a great deal, information was only as good as the informants > knowledge (or honesty) and they gave what they were asked for > > If the question was , "your fathers name?", thats what would be given > , fathers occupation is very often a little elevated on marriage > certs, but purser would fit with a clerk or accountants clerk > > He could of course have simply legged it with the barmaid from the > Rose & Crown <g> > > Stranger things have been known to happen > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Nivard, > > > > I did say that he was shown in the 1881 census as a ship's steward. > > This was incorrect; it was the birth certificate of one of his > > children in 1881 that showed him as a ship's steward. The 1887 > > record showing him as a purser was the marriage certificate of > > another child. Joseph had married Elizabeth Simmons in Liverpool in > > 1864. The last census record I have of him in 1861 when he was > > described as an accountant's clerk living with his parents at > > Kirkdale, Liverpool. His wife and children can be found on the 1871 > > census but he is missing so he may have been away at sea although in 1879 on another child's birth certificate he is described as a storekeeper. > > > > I cannot find his death in England/Wales. I know that he must have > > died or was missing presumed dead sometime after the last record of > > him in 1887 and > > 1891 when the census shows that Joseph's brother was living with > > Joseph's wife and describing themselves as man and wife although > > they were not married. (It was still illegal at that time for a man > > to marry his brother's wife). > > > > I had the impression that it was quite possible that a man may go to > > sea on one voyage as a purser and another as a carpenter and that > > ship's carpenters were not what we, today, know as time served > > tradesmen. I think that the 10 year difference in age could well be > > just an error. He certainly did not die in the area where his home > > was. I have been through all the burial and well as death records. > > > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree regarding changing from a purser to a carpenter which was a very skilled craft at sea. Most unlikely especially as Joseph was training in 1861 Census as an accountant's clerk. Joseph's father Peter was working throughout his career for HM Customs & Revenue. In the census returns their neighbours are also in the same type of employment. Looking for Joseph in these records as a purser or clerk seems a more likely chance of finding him. As for Elizabeth Clarke in 1891, does the mother-in-law have the right surname [Singleton]? If not, I doubt that Thomas is your Joseph's brother. Lauretta in London UK > From: ovington1@sky.com > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 23:04:25 +0100 > Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman > > Hi again > > I am quite happy to be told otherwise but ships carpenters were always time served and very much a > trade > > Personally I cannot see a clerk, storeman or purser all of which may have been carried out by the > same man being found as a carpenter at any time > > Ships carpenters were a vital part of the ships crew, moreso in the days of sail and less so with > the iron ships but still necessary, perhaps they needed to be more versatile in later years but an > ordinary seaman would not have passed for a carpenter > > No more than a carpenter would pass for a purser or clerk > > I would be more than surprised if the carpenter is your missing man > > If you post the census refs you have perhaps we can find more > > You say he must have died after 1887 when he is given as father on the marriage cert > > Did he act as witness? otherwise the lack of the word "deceased" does not mean a great deal, > information was only as good as the informants knowledge (or honesty) and they gave what they were > asked for > > If the question was , "your fathers name?", thats what would be given , fathers occupation is very > often a little elevated on marriage certs, but purser would fit with a clerk or accountants clerk > > He could of course have simply legged it with the barmaid from the Rose & Crown <g> > > Stranger things have been known to happen > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > > > > Nivard, > > > > I did say that he was shown in the 1881 census as a ship's steward. This was > > incorrect; it was the birth certificate of one of his children in 1881 that > > showed him as a ship's steward. The 1887 record showing him as a purser was > > the marriage certificate of another child. Joseph had married Elizabeth > > Simmons in Liverpool in 1864. The last census record I have of him in 1861 > > when he was described as an accountant's clerk living with his parents at > > Kirkdale, Liverpool. His wife and children can be found on the 1871 census > > but he is missing so he may have been away at sea although in 1879 on > > another child's birth certificate he is described as a storekeeper. > > > > I cannot find his death in England/Wales. I know that he must have died or > > was missing presumed dead sometime after the last record of him in 1887 and > > 1891 when the census shows that Joseph's brother was living with Joseph's > > wife and describing themselves as man and wife although they were not > > married. (It was still illegal at that time for a man to marry his brother's > > wife). > > > > I had the impression that it was quite possible that a man may go to sea on > > one voyage as a purser and another as a carpenter and that ship's carpenters > > were not what we, today, know as time served tradesmen. I think that the 10 > > year difference in age could well be just an error. He certainly did not die > > in the area where his home was. I have been through all the burial and well > > as death records. > > > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Recently researching a Maryport-built vessel I found the following article, the diplomatic understatement in the last sentence causing me to smile: The Liverpool Mercury, Tuesday, 25th May 1847 " Painless operation in Turkey - on the 5th ult., as the mate belonging to the Science, of Liverpool, was discharging her cargo at the Custom-house wharf, Constantinople, a large bale of merchandise fell on him, and broke his pelvis (hip bone). His agony was very great, and he could not stir hand or foot without great torture. Dr.Glascott, of the British hospital, was sent for, who, with the assistance of Dr.Smith, administered the sulphuric ether most successfully. The man had not inhaled for more than a minute when all sense of pain vanished, and Dr.Glascott then placed the bones in opposition, one of the most painful operations in surgery, during which time the patient talked incoherently, making use of several nautical terms." Tim Latham www.mightyseas.co.uk

Nivard, Yes, It is another thing that makes it less likely that this is my ancestor BUT he could have been staying there with an unknown relative or friend. I don't dismiss this entirely as my grandfather, Frederick Clarke, Joseph's grandson and also a mariner spent quite a lot of time between voyages to North America at Niagara on the Lake. The fact that I don't know of a connection at Piper City does not mean that there wasn't; I only learnt of the family connection with Niagara quite recently. If I had found my grandfather at Niagara a few years ago I would have dismissed it as not being him. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 16 September 2011 16:36 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman Hi David Did you notice on the death at sea registration you think may be your Joseph CLARKE there is a note "Last place of abode piper city" The only Piper City I can find is in Illinois, USA Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> Hello Nivard, >> >> My current aim is to try to pursue Joseph the carpenter to the limit >> of available information as it is all I have. >> >> I seem to remember seeing a number of references to ship's carpenters >> being general handymen which some untrained people may be able to put >> their hand to. Unfortunately I cant remember my sources at present >> other than Joseph's brother, Ebenezer, who was described as a ship's >> steward in the 1891 census and as a ship's carpenter in the 1901. >> >> I don't have census information showing Joseph from the time he went to sea. >> >> >> David ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Cathy, There is no easy way to find the information you want. If David Crone drowned at sea in a shipwreck there would be no death certificate, nor is there an index of such deaths, as far as I know. I have researched some Maryport vessels, but I know of no collier brigs or coasting vessels wrecked in Dublin Bay between 1861 and 1869. This does not mean there were none, because I suppose I have loss records of only about 10% of the vessels belonging to Maryport. A couple of larger vessels built at Maryport were wrecked on the Irish coast in this period - the Dalemain on Arklow Bank in October 1862, the Canada at Bettystown in December 1868. But these were ocean going vessels starting their voyage from Liverpool, and the crew were unlikely to have been from Maryport. I have a record of a Crone being in command of the Brunswick of Maryport in 1865 - the Brunswick was lost on the Co.Down coast in December 1873. I also have a record of a George Crone in command of the Lady Gordon of Maryport in 1864. That vessel was abandoned on a voyage from Maryport to Havre in December 1867. You could follow up these wrecks by looking up the report in the local newspaper, the Cumberland Pacquet, which often gave the names of the complete crew of local vessels lost. If you wanted to make a systematic search then the way to go would be as follows : 1. Assume he was in a Maryport-registered vessel (quite likely, but he could have been in a vessel registered at Workington, Carlisle, Whitehaven, Dublin or elsewhere) 2. Go through the Maryport Shipping Register (at Carlisle Record Office) and note all vessels wrecked on the Irish coast in the period 1861-69. The Maryport Shipping Register is three volumes, and I reckon it would take you a morning or afternoon to do this. 3. In the same archive, look up the report of each loss in the Cumberland Pacquet - most shipping news was grouped in a "Shipping Intelligence" column on page 8 in this period - the Pacquet was published weekly. If you prefer microfilm rather than the bound original copies, the newspaper can also be read at Carlisle Library. 4. If the Maryport register did not produce anything, you could try the same with the Whitehaven or Workington registers, but these are at the Whitehaven record office, and are very much larger. I looked through the Shpwreck Index of Ireland to see if there were any Maryport vessels wrecked in the period of your interest, but could not identify any. However, others will tell you that this Index is far from comprehensive. Best Wishes, Tim Latham www.mightyseas.co.uk

Nivard, Joseph was born on 22 September 1841, just too late for the 1841 census. 1851: Living with mother Sarah Clarke at 78 Park Street West Derby Liverpool Reg District: West Derby, Sub Reg: Toxteth Park, ED: 1az, Schedule: 100, Piece: 2188, Folio: 229, Page: 24. 1861: Living with his parents Peter and Sarah Clarke at 8, Thomaston Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool. Reg District: West Derby, Sub Reg: Everton, ED: 62, Schedule: 190, Piece: 2720, Folio: 113, Page: 39. 1871: Wife, Elizabeth Clarke, and family living at home of wife's father at 42 Wesley Street Liverpool Reg District: West Derby, Sub Reg: Toxteth Park, ED: 5, Schedule: 45, Piece: 3794, Folio: 8, Page: 10. 1881: Wife, Elizabeth Clarke, (described as mariners wife) and family living at home of wife's father, at 2 East View, Rice Lane, Liscard, Cheshire. Reg District: Birkenhead, Sub Reg: Wallasey, ED: 8, Piece: 3591, Folio: 20, Page: 33. 1891: Wife, Elizabeth Clarke, living at 11 Myrtle Grove Wallasey with husbands brother, Ebenezer Clarke, (as man and wife), Reg District: Birkenhead, Sub Reg: Wallasey, ED: 23, Piece: 2897, Folio: 108, Page: 33. 1901: Wife, Elizabeth Clarke, living at 49 Clarence Road, Poulton cum Seacombe, with husbands brother, Ebenezer Clarke, (as man and wife) Reg District: Birkenhead, Sub Reg: Wallasey, ED: 36, Schedule 83, Piece: 3405, Folio: 179, Page: 16. Ebenezer is also shown as part of the ship's crew of the 'Oakmore' at Hornby Dock, Bootle. He is listed as the carpenter although in previous census he is shown as ship's steward. He did not receive formal training as a carpenter. Reg District: West Derby, Sub Reg: Bootle, ED: Oakmore, Schedule: 1, Piece: 3464, Folio: 183. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 16 September 2011 16:23 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman Hi again I don't blame you for checking every avenue , its the best way You did say you had him in 1861 and his wife and family in 1871, if you post the census refs there is a better chance of others looking for the right people If you also have the 1851 & 1841 post those also Perhaps another pair of eyes (or more) may be able to find more clues for you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello Nivard, > > My current aim is to try to pursue Joseph the carpenter to the limit of > available information as it is all I have. > > I seem to remember seeing a number of references to ship's carpenters being > general handymen which some untrained people may be able to put their hand > to. Unfortunately I cant remember my sources at present other than Joseph's > brother, Ebenezer, who was described as a ship's steward in the 1891 census > and as a ship's carpenter in the 1901. > > I don't have census information showing Joseph from the time he went to sea. > > > David ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

David Nov 27th 1875 Found a snippet concerning the White Star Line, Baltic, Captain GLEADELL, who saved the crew of the Oriental, they thanked Mr CLARKE, the purser and Captain. [no christian name] Jane > My gg grandfather, Joseph Clarke, was born in Liverpool in 1841. Records > of > him up to 1881 showed him to be a bookkeeper. In the 1881 census, however, > he is described as a ship's steward and in 1887 a record shows him as a > purser. After that there is no further record of him and there is no oral > history in the family of what became of him. I think that he probably died > while abroad or at sea. > > > > The only possible death at sea record is the death of a Joseph Clarke on > 16th June 1889. This was on the 'SS State of Navada' a Glasgow registered > ship number 653. This Joseph is described as a carpenter aged 58. My > Joseph > would have been 48. Despite the difference in age and occupation I think > that this may have been him. > > > > Can anyone offer any advice as to how I might be able to research this > further. > > > > David > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi David Did you notice on the death at sea registration you think may be your Joseph CLARKE there is a note "Last place of abode piper city" The only Piper City I can find is in Illinois, USA Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> Hello Nivard, >> >> My current aim is to try to pursue Joseph the carpenter to the limit of >> available information as it is all I have. >> >> I seem to remember seeing a number of references to ship's carpenters being >> general handymen which some untrained people may be able to put their hand >> to. Unfortunately I cant remember my sources at present other than Joseph's >> brother, Ebenezer, who was described as a ship's steward in the 1891 census >> and as a ship's carpenter in the 1901. >> >> I don't have census information showing Joseph from the time he went to sea. >> >> >> David

Hi again I don't blame you for checking every avenue , its the best way You did say you had him in 1861 and his wife and family in 1871, if you post the census refs there is a better chance of others looking for the right people If you also have the 1851 & 1841 post those also Perhaps another pair of eyes (or more) may be able to find more clues for you Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello Nivard, > > My current aim is to try to pursue Joseph the carpenter to the limit of > available information as it is all I have. > > I seem to remember seeing a number of references to ship's carpenters being > general handymen which some untrained people may be able to put their hand > to. Unfortunately I cant remember my sources at present other than Joseph's > brother, Ebenezer, who was described as a ship's steward in the 1891 census > and as a ship's carpenter in the 1901. > > I don't have census information showing Joseph from the time he went to sea. > > > David

Hi Mick, Thank`s for that,it gives me a starting point. When i go to the city i will look up the LADY ALICE KENLY in Lloyds at the state library. Cheers, Joe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Holman Sutcliffe > Hi Joe > > Clip lists one built as Lady Alice Kenly Registered in Belfast 1868 > Renamed > and Reg,d in Boston 1908. > > Mick O Rourke > > > Mariners Mailing list > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings to the List, A few weeks ago a senior gentleman e-mailed a request to me....asking for my help in location of a ship picture. He builds very, very impressive ship models ...[Which the gentleman sent me a picture of "one" that he has presently completed...if anyone wishes it sent to them....just let me know and I'll be glad to send you the pic......I think you'll be most impressed after you view this....it is just awesome!!!]..... He now wishes to build a model of the "SS Weyerhauser." His son works for the Weyerhauser Company so he would like to build this ship model for him. What he needs a picture of is the "Deck Lay out and how the lumber is stacked" The gentleman stated that he would be able to use deck layout pictures of other ships ....such as : SS John Weyerhauser; SS Horace Irvine; SS George Long; and SS V.H. Peabody. I'd really like to help this 80+ yr. old gentleman out if at all possible....and if anyone can offer help I'd greatly appreciate it....and I'm sure he would as well. I have his name and e-mail address that I'd be glad to furnish if you wish to furnish data/pictures directly to him. I'm sure that would not be a problem. Thanks in advance for any and all help.. Again if anyone wishes to "view" this impressive picture of the model ship he sent me...just e-mail me and I'll gladly attach to my reply back to you. Thanks again Bud

Sorry Joe I missed named the vessel , Teds post gave the corect name LADY ALICE KENLIS . Mick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe McMillan" <joemac@internode.on.net> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Holman Sutcliffe > Hi Mick, > Thank`s for that,it gives me a starting point. > When i go to the city i will look up the LADY ALICE KENLY in Lloyds at the > state library. > Cheers, > Joe. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> > To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: [MAR] Holman Sutcliffe > > >> Hi Joe >> >> Clip lists one built as Lady Alice Kenly Registered in Belfast 1868 >> Renamed >> and Reg,d in Boston 1908. >> >> Mick O Rourke >> >> >> Mariners Mailing list >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Nivard, My current aim is to try to pursue Joseph the carpenter to the limit of available information as it is all I have. I seem to remember seeing a number of references to ship's carpenters being general handymen which some untrained people may be able to put their hand to. Unfortunately I cant remember my sources at present other than Joseph's brother, Ebenezer, who was described as a ship's steward in the 1891 census and as a ship's carpenter in the 1901. I don't have census information showing Joseph from the time he went to sea. David -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington Sent: 15 September 2011 23:04 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Missing Seaman Hi again I am quite happy to be told otherwise but ships carpenters were always time served and very much a trade Personally I cannot see a clerk, storeman or purser all of which may have been carried out by the same man being found as a carpenter at any time Ships carpenters were a vital part of the ships crew, moreso in the days of sail and less so with the iron ships but still necessary, perhaps they needed to be more versatile in later years but an ordinary seaman would not have passed for a carpenter No more than a carpenter would pass for a purser or clerk I would be more than surprised if the carpenter is your missing man If you post the census refs you have perhaps we can find more You say he must have died after 1887 when he is given as father on the marriage cert Did he act as witness? otherwise the lack of the word "deceased" does not mean a great deal, information was only as good as the informants knowledge (or honesty) and they gave what they were asked for If the question was , "your fathers name?", thats what would be given , fathers occupation is very often a little elevated on marriage certs, but purser would fit with a clerk or accountants clerk He could of course have simply legged it with the barmaid from the Rose & Crown <g> Stranger things have been known to happen Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Nivard, > > I did say that he was shown in the 1881 census as a ship's steward. > This was incorrect; it was the birth certificate of one of his > children in 1881 that showed him as a ship's steward. The 1887 record > showing him as a purser was the marriage certificate of another child. > Joseph had married Elizabeth Simmons in Liverpool in 1864. The last > census record I have of him in 1861 when he was described as an > accountant's clerk living with his parents at Kirkdale, Liverpool. His > wife and children can be found on the 1871 census but he is missing so > he may have been away at sea although in 1879 on another child's birth certificate he is described as a storekeeper. > > I cannot find his death in England/Wales. I know that he must have > died or was missing presumed dead sometime after the last record of > him in 1887 and > 1891 when the census shows that Joseph's brother was living with > Joseph's wife and describing themselves as man and wife although they > were not married. (It was still illegal at that time for a man to > marry his brother's wife). > > I had the impression that it was quite possible that a man may go to > sea on one voyage as a purser and another as a carpenter and that > ship's carpenters were not what we, today, know as time served > tradesmen. I think that the 10 year difference in age could well be > just an error. He certainly did not die in the area where his home > was. I have been through all the burial and well as death records. > > David ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi again I am quite happy to be told otherwise but ships carpenters were always time served and very much a trade Personally I cannot see a clerk, storeman or purser all of which may have been carried out by the same man being found as a carpenter at any time Ships carpenters were a vital part of the ships crew, moreso in the days of sail and less so with the iron ships but still necessary, perhaps they needed to be more versatile in later years but an ordinary seaman would not have passed for a carpenter No more than a carpenter would pass for a purser or clerk I would be more than surprised if the carpenter is your missing man If you post the census refs you have perhaps we can find more You say he must have died after 1887 when he is given as father on the marriage cert Did he act as witness? otherwise the lack of the word "deceased" does not mean a great deal, information was only as good as the informants knowledge (or honesty) and they gave what they were asked for If the question was , "your fathers name?", thats what would be given , fathers occupation is very often a little elevated on marriage certs, but purser would fit with a clerk or accountants clerk He could of course have simply legged it with the barmaid from the Rose & Crown <g> Stranger things have been known to happen Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Nivard, > > I did say that he was shown in the 1881 census as a ship's steward. This was > incorrect; it was the birth certificate of one of his children in 1881 that > showed him as a ship's steward. The 1887 record showing him as a purser was > the marriage certificate of another child. Joseph had married Elizabeth > Simmons in Liverpool in 1864. The last census record I have of him in 1861 > when he was described as an accountant's clerk living with his parents at > Kirkdale, Liverpool. His wife and children can be found on the 1871 census > but he is missing so he may have been away at sea although in 1879 on > another child's birth certificate he is described as a storekeeper. > > I cannot find his death in England/Wales. I know that he must have died or > was missing presumed dead sometime after the last record of him in 1887 and > 1891 when the census shows that Joseph's brother was living with Joseph's > wife and describing themselves as man and wife although they were not > married. (It was still illegal at that time for a man to marry his brother's > wife). > > I had the impression that it was quite possible that a man may go to sea on > one voyage as a purser and another as a carpenter and that ship's carpenters > were not what we, today, know as time served tradesmen. I think that the 10 > year difference in age could well be just an error. He certainly did not die > in the area where his home was. I have been through all the burial and well > as death records. > > David