Hi Isobel Scotland has its own indexes to deaths at sea etc , they are in the Minor Records on Scotlandspeople, have you tried there? Also try the testaments Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > Hello List, > > Can any one suggest where I might find some information on Alexander CLARK born Arbroath Scotland > 1807. > In the 1841/51/61 Census records his wife Elizabeth was described as a shipmaster’s wife, but by > 1871 she was a widow. > I have not been able to find his name in any Mariner’s records. He would probably have been at > sea by about 1821, and as he was born in Arbroath I imagine that he probably joined a ship from > there. > > Unfortunately I do not know the names of any of the ships on which he was a crew member. He is > supposed to have died from yellow fever in the West Indies. I have in the past searched some > burials of seamen in Jamaica, but he may well have been buried at sea. He is not listed in > overseas deaths-or deaths at Sea ( Findmypast) > > Isobel Jones

Hello List, Can any one suggest where I might find some information on Alexander CLARK born Arbroath Scotland 1807. In the 1841/51/61 Census records his wife Elizabeth was described as a shipmaster’s wife, but by 1871 she was a widow. I have not been able to find his name in any Mariner’s records. He would probably have been at sea by about 1821, and as he was born in Arbroath I imagine that he probably joined a ship from there. Unfortunately I do not know the names of any of the ships on which he was a crew member. He is supposed to have died from yellow fever in the West Indies. I have in the past searched some burials of seamen in Jamaica, but he may well have been buried at sea. He is not listed in overseas deaths-or deaths at Sea ( Findmypast) Isobel Jones

Hi again,   Another FYI.     I just did a Google search for my ancestor,  (Capt.) Jacob HOMER,  and found this article which seems to be about a different Jacob HOMER:   —"Townshend Harris, First American Envoy in Japan," has entered upon a second edition, and has been issued in England. An interesting incident connected with the publication of Mr. Harris's journal is that (or the first time, since 1856, when Capt. Jacob Homer sailed from Boston in the bark Messenger Bird, with his wife and three children, the surviving relatives of this American navigator have learned, from this book, his experiences between South America and his sailing from Japan for the Amoor River. He was never heard of after leaving Mr. Harris at Shimoda.     http://books.google.com/books?id=5iM_AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=%22Capt.+Jacob+Homer%22&source=bl&ots=OTe5Fg4gXP&sig=Up57oX7IBgy1UeaHs2FBed2OmZc&hl=en&ei=ktarTtuTLuPb0QHyxqHJDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22Capt.%20Jacob%20Homer%22&f=false       Betty               (near Lowell, MA, USA)

Hello,   Someone got me thinking about my ancestors, David LORING and Elizabeth FAIRSERVICE, who married in MA/US in 1764.     I went to the archives of the Lists and Boards to remind myself of what I knew about them.    I was reminded that they are mentioned in the "LORING book"   (from ~1917?).     I just noticed the last part of the paragraph, and thought it might be of interest to someone:   24. David' Loring (David*, Benjamin3, Benjamin*, Thomas1), born at Hull August 19,1742; married February 2, 1764, Elizabeth Fairservice; she survived him and married second November 2, 1778, Thomas Fennen (Fenecy), whom she also outlived, and married March 22, 1798, Capt. Thomas Jenner Carnes. She made her will (residing at West Cambridge) August 6, 1802, bequeathing to "my 3 grandchildren Eliza, Nathaniel* and David Loring and their mother Sarah." She died August 16, 1802. He was a shoemaker; sealer of leather for the town of Boston in 1769, made many shoes for the soldiers of the British army quartered there. Among the depositions taken by the city of Boston relative to the " Massacre" of March 5, 1770, is one by him, expressing the view that the soldiers of the 29th regiment were " a set of bloodthirsty men," quoting the remark of a soldier of that regiment that "it was a planned thing a month before." He sailed in the privateer Sturdy Decke1; Captain Campbell, in 1777, with one hundred men, which took several prizes but was lost in 1778 on the coast of France. The exact date of his death is therefore not known.   ..  My note:    I am descended from their daughter, Elizabeth LORING,  who married  (Capt.) Jacob HOMER in MA/US  in 1786.    Unfortunately, Jacob died at sea shortly afterwards,  and while Elizabeth was pregnant with their first child.      I need to look on-line to see if there is information on how Jacob was lost.    But, I don't remember that that is known.     I'm just noticing that the father, David, was lost at sea in 1778, and then his son-in-law, Jacob, was lost at sea in 1786.   Just an FYI for you.   Betty                (near Lowell, MA, USA)     (on Lists for 10 yrs.;   now an Admin for 9 Lists, including  CAN-USA-Migration)     (Daughter, "Betsy" HOMER, b1786 grew up to marry Thomas HUTCHINSON of what is now Winchester, MA.      Widow, Mrs. Elizabeth HOMER went on to marry twice more,  and having 8 more children.)

Lynden According to the 1860 US Federal Census the family lived in the 10th District of San Francisco, this is described as an area bounded by the Bay, Harris, Market and Second Streets: Henry A Allen, 33, Seaman, born Connecticut Frances Allen, 28, born Isle of Man Laura F Allen,4, born California Julia Allen, 2, born California Anne Allen, 1, born California I haven't as yet been able to find any of the family after that. Aled Aled L Jones -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hughes, Lynden M Sent: 28 October 2011 12:03 PM To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] SS Brother Jonathan - First Officer Allen

Dear All I am looking for information on the American mariner, W.A.H. Allen, First Officer on the SS Brother Jonathan when it was shipwrecked on 30th July 1865. The shipwreck itself is of course well documented. The only information I have on the man comes from the newspaper obituary, reproduced below, which may, or may not, be accurate. I believe he was known as Henry Allen, but the order of his initials appears to have been variable. He was variously born in 1815 or 1820, in Maryland or Massachusetts. The obit lists several ships, which it would be fantastic to follow up, but I can find no information on any of them except the one which "burned at Crescent City", which I believe to have been the SS America. Any info on Allen, particularly a definitive name and also date / place of birth (without which it would appear to be almost impossible to proceed), or pointers on how to research US sailors and ships in this time period would be gratefully received. I am also particularly interested in what happened to his (English) wife and children after he died. With thanks & regards Lynden Hughes West Sussex, UK Daily Alta California, San Francisco, August 28 1865 "Henry A Allen, First Officer: Was a native of the city or Baltimore, State of Maryland, and was born in the year 1820. He left home in his eleventh year and had followed the sea since that age. Being a man of superior talent he must necessarily have been an able seaman in every sense of the term. He was ten years in the Liverpool Packet Line, and had been a very successful navigator: had sailed around the globe twice, and was Captain of the ship Nero when she was burned in the China seas: he, however, managed to save all his passengers and crew after being five days without. food or drink. He went to sea first as cabin boy on the ship Racer, but attained the honorable position of first officer at the age of eighteen, and never afterward; acted in a lower capacity. Mr. Allen came to this coast in the year 1854. and early in the year 1855 he was employed by Capt. Wright as first officer of the steamer ----- , which was burned at Crescent City a short time after. He was Captain of the Hartford for several y! ears, and was the gentleman who took the little steamer Ranger to Fraser River at the time of the great excitement in that region. This was a daring feat, as this vessel was of only eighteen tons burthen, and they were nearly four weeks making the voyage, being compelled to make port very often for the purpose of cutting their own wood. Mr. Allen was married in the year I854 to Miss Frances Lucas, second daughter of the late Thomas Edward Lucas, of Lewaigne, Isle of Man. He was a man of generous impulses, kind, courteous and forbearing. He leaves a wife and four children, besides numerous friends to mourn the sad fate of a brave man."

Hi David, Yes that is where i found out that she had been renamed twice.I was born and raised in Dumbarton and worked for a time in Denny`s shipyard before coming to Australia.I have been collecting photos of Dumbarton built ships for many years now and thought i would see if anyone had come across Mary Fisher . Thank you for your reply. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Asprey" <dasprey@blueyonder.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:43 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Mary Fisher > On 26 Oct 2011 Joe McMillan wrote: > Can anyone point me in the direction of a photo of the motor yacht MARY > FISHER built 1964 by William Denny & Bros. Ltd.--Dumbarton,1973 renamed > ZULU > CHARLIE and in 1977 renamed SOPHISTICATED LADY. I would love to obtain a > photograph of her under these names if possible. Any assistance would be > greatly appreciated. > <<<<<<<<<< > > Strange, perhaps, that only a couple of days ago I entered the details for > this motor yacht in the Clydebuilt database. > http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=23802 > > I could do with a photo or two to add there also! > > David > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm hoping someone may be able to help me find records for Lorenz/o RUBIN who married Sarah DAVENPORT on 13 August 1798 at St Alfege's Church, Greenwich please? His known children were Charlotte, b. 1801; Henry, b.1805 and Ann, b. 8 July 1811, all at Deptford. On the marriage certificate for his daughter, Ann, her father was recorded as a mariner. Many thanks for your help, Jan in beautiful Queensland

Wendy, Further to my last, photo of the Victorian at http://www.theshipslist.com/pictures/victorian.htm Ted On 27/10/2011 12:42, Wendy Hall-Owen wrote: > > Hi PaulThanks for your reply.Now it didn't occur to me that he may have tried to join the MN, apparently he was a bit of a lad, sadly he died just months before hisyoungest dau was born and she is my neighbour, so obviously she never knew him, but knows a great deal about him. > Now, how do I send a copy of his Service Record to you ??? I can give you my email address in a reply on here if that is allowed. > Wend > >

Hi Wendy, I suspect that this is your ship - as she was employed as an Armed Merchant Cruiser during the Great War, she would have carried Royal Navy personnel. regards Ted* VICTORIAN / MARLOCH 1904* was a 10,635 gross ton ship built in 1904 by Workman, Clark & Co, Ltd. for the Allan Line </ships/lines/allan.html> of Liverpool. Her details were - length overall 540ft x beam 60.4ft, one funnel, two masts, triple screw (first N. Atlantic liner with triple screws and first with turbine engines) and a speed of 18 knots. There was accommodation for 346-1st, 344-2nd and 1,000-3rd class passengers. Launched on 25th Aug. 1904, she sailed from Liverpool on her maiden voyage to St John NB on 23rd March 1905. On 27th April 1905 she commenced her first Liverpool - Quebec - Montreal voyage and continued UK - Canada sailings until 1914 when she was converted to the armed merchant cruiser HMS Victorian. She served with the 9th and later the 10th Cruiser Squadrons and after the war, was refitted by Cammell Laird and returned to Canadian Pacific Ocean Services </ships/lines/cp.html> who had taken over the Allan Line. She resumed the Liverpool - Quebec - Montreal service on 23rd April 1920, was refitted to carry 418-cabin, and 566-3rd class passengers in October 1920 and commenced her last Liverpool - Quebec - Montreal voyage on 2nd Sept. 1921. In October 1921 she was chartered to the British government and carried out a trooping voyage from Southampton to Bombay and on her return was re-engined to oil fuel. On 3rd Aug. 1922 she transferred to the Glasgow - Quebec - Montreal route and on 11th Dec. 1922 was renamed MARLOCH. She commenced her first Glasgow - St John NB voyage on 20th Dec. 1922 and on 2nd Feb. 1926 transferred to the Antwerp - St John NB service. She collided with, and sank the British steamer WHIMBREL off Flushing on 2nd Feb. 1926 and was towed to Southampton. Repaired, she returned to the Antwerp - Southampton - St John, NB service on 4th March 1926 and sailed on her final Antwerp - Quebec - Montreal crossing on 17th Aug. 1928. She was laid up at Southend until 1929 when she was sold to T.W.Ward & Co and arrived at Milford Haven on 17th April, being subsequently broken up at Pembroke Dock. Her panelling, which was inlaid with mother-of-pearl was transferred to the board room of Ward's Sheffield office, where it can still be seen. [North Atlantic Seaway by N.R.P.Bonsor, vol.1,p.322] [Canadian Pacific-100years, by George Musk] On 27/10/2011 12:42, Wendy Hall-Owen wrote: > > Hi PaulThanks for your reply.Now it didn't occur to me that he may have tried to join the MN, apparently he was a bit of a lad, sadly he died just months before hisyoungest dau was born and she is my neighbour, so obviously she never knew him, but knows a great deal about him. > Now, how do I send a copy of his Service Record to you ??? I can give you my email address in a reply on here if that is allowed. > Wend > > >> From: pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com >> To: mariners@rootsweb.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:06:36 +0100 >> Subject: Re: [MAR] FW: WW1 Royal Navy LaWrence / LaUrence LaUrAnce Grace - Ship "Victorian" >> >> >> Hi Wendy >> >> See comments between paragraphs: >> >> On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:04:16 +0000, Wendy Hall-Owen >> <intelligentwend@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. >>> My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. >>> Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 >>> On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? >> Sto 1 = Stoker First Class >> >>> and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal& British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 >>> On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? >> I'm not too familiar with medal rolls, but this looks to me more >> likely to be someone who may have been serving in the Merchant >> Service. I would suggest that Fmn probably = Fireman, which I would >> guess would equate to the RN's rating of Stoker. >> >>> Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> >> Below you suggest that he joined the RN, but since 18 was the minimum >> age for stokers he would have been discharged from the service and >> rejoined at a later date. In the interim it could be that he joined >> the Merchant Service ? I have heard of many accounts of boy seamen >> giving an incorrect date of birth so that they would appear to be >> older than was actually the case, but this is the first time I've >> heard of a case that has been discovered and something was done about >> it. The reason for the minimum age for Stokers was their physical >> condition and it could be that he had a job keeping up with the older >> lads and his real age came to light ? >> >> Alternatively, as you suggest it could be for 2 different people ? >> >> If you have any queries regarding his service record perhaps you can >> send me a copy of the records along with your questions. >> >> Paul >> >> >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane& Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? >>> Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM >>>> 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. >>> Built as the BLAKKUR >>> (GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton& Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. >>> Launched 27/08/1931. >>> In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the >>> Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. >>> On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. >>> In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. >>> On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W >>> ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton& Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull& Beverley >>> Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss >>> 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. >>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>> Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? >>>> Kind regards Wendy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >> http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Wendy See comments between paragraphs: On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:04:16 +0000, Wendy Hall-Owen <intelligentwend@hotmail.com> wrote: >Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. >My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. >Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 >On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? Sto 1 = Stoker First Class >and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 >On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? I'm not too familiar with medal rolls, but this looks to me more likely to be someone who may have been serving in the Merchant Service. I would suggest that Fmn probably = Fireman, which I would guess would equate to the RN's rating of Stoker. >Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> Below you suggest that he joined the RN, but since 18 was the minimum age for stokers he would have been discharged from the service and rejoined at a later date. In the interim it could be that he joined the Merchant Service ? I have heard of many accounts of boy seamen giving an incorrect date of birth so that they would appear to be older than was actually the case, but this is the first time I've heard of a case that has been discovered and something was done about it. The reason for the minimum age for Stokers was their physical condition and it could be that he had a job keeping up with the older lads and his real age came to light ? Alternatively, as you suggest it could be for 2 different people ? If you have any queries regarding his service record perhaps you can send me a copy of the records along with your questions. Paul ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane & Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? >Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM >> 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. >Built as the BLAKKUR >(GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. >Launched 27/08/1931. > In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the >Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. >On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. >In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. > On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W >ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley > Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss > 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? >> Kind regards Wendy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi PaulThanks for your reply.Now it didn't occur to me that he may have tried to join the MN, apparently he was a bit of a lad, sadly he died just months before hisyoungest dau was born and she is my neighbour, so obviously she never knew him, but knows a great deal about him. Now, how do I send a copy of his Service Record to you ??? I can give you my email address in a reply on here if that is allowed. Wend > From: pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:06:36 +0100 > Subject: Re: [MAR] FW: WW1 Royal Navy LaWrence / LaUrence LaUrAnce Grace - Ship "Victorian" > > > Hi Wendy > > See comments between paragraphs: > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:04:16 +0000, Wendy Hall-Owen > <intelligentwend@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. > >My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. > >Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 > >On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? > > Sto 1 = Stoker First Class > > >and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 > >On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? > > I'm not too familiar with medal rolls, but this looks to me more > likely to be someone who may have been serving in the Merchant > Service. I would suggest that Fmn probably = Fireman, which I would > guess would equate to the RN's rating of Stoker. > > >Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> > > Below you suggest that he joined the RN, but since 18 was the minimum > age for stokers he would have been discharged from the service and > rejoined at a later date. In the interim it could be that he joined > the Merchant Service ? I have heard of many accounts of boy seamen > giving an incorrect date of birth so that they would appear to be > older than was actually the case, but this is the first time I've > heard of a case that has been discovered and something was done about > it. The reason for the minimum age for Stokers was their physical > condition and it could be that he had a job keeping up with the older > lads and his real age came to light ? > > Alternatively, as you suggest it could be for 2 different people ? > > If you have any queries regarding his service record perhaps you can > send me a copy of the records along with your questions. > > Paul > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane & Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? > >Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM > >> 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. > >Built as the BLAKKUR > >(GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. > >Launched 27/08/1931. > > In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the > >Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. > >On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. > >In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. > > On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W > >ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley > > Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss > > 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? > >> Kind regards Wendy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 26 Oct 2011 Joe McMillan wrote: Can anyone point me in the direction of a photo of the motor yacht MARY FISHER built 1964 by William Denny & Bros. Ltd.--Dumbarton,1973 renamed ZULU CHARLIE and in 1977 renamed SOPHISTICATED LADY. I would love to obtain a photograph of her under these names if possible. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. <<<<<<<<<< Strange, perhaps, that only a couple of days ago I entered the details for this motor yacht in the Clydebuilt database. http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=23802 I could do with a photo or two to add there also! David

Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane & Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM > 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. Built as the BLAKKUR (GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. Launched 27/08/1931. In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? > Kind regards Wendy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to all who responded to my query. The document regarding Henry HARPER'S service in the RN is held in the National Archives; Catalogue Reference ADM/188/47 My mother held the unshakeable belief that Henry H, her grandfather, had served aboard HMS Seringapatam, but I can't verify it. Frustrating! Cheers Frank 26* 10' S; 28* 08'E -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 76 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi there, Can anyone point me in the direction of a photo of the motor yacht MARY FISHER built 1964 by William Denny & Bros. Ltd.--Dumbarton,1973 renamed ZULU CHARLIE and in 1977 renamed SOPHISTICATED LADY. I would love to obtain a photograph of her under these names if possible. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Joe McMillan, South Australia.

Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1.His actual name is LaWrence, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence GraceVictory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 On this image following detailsRank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Lawrence GraceStar, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean pleaseNo "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, as yet not downloaded the info, will let everyone knowwhat it contains later as my neighbour is away at present. ADM 188/958 Piece 45501-46000Laurance Grace (another spelling)K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, hewas aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. Built as the BLAKKUR (GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell, Beverley; Yard No 566. Launched 27/08/1931. In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? Kind regardsWendy

It isn't really clear what document you have : can you give a National Archives reference so that we know what you are looking at : it should start with ADM ??/??? This is a difficult period to be researching service records of naval rating as the Admiralty changed their record keeping in 1873, see the National Archives leaflet on researching naval ratings : http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/royal-navy-rating.htm And taking into account the apparent age of your relative his service career could well have included another year when lots of changes were taking place ie 1853 with pensionable engagements being introduced for those who were happy to sign on the dotted line for periods up to 10 years etc. although a lot of the older men were suspicious of the Admiralty's intentions and many men left it a few years before they signed on for pension ie they merely signed on for a ship's commission, and were then discharged to shore and had to find another ship if they wanted to remain in the Service. So details of his service prior to 1873 are included in the Continuous Service Engagement Books, found in series ADM 139.and if he served prior to 1853 then, unless you can find a pension record in the ADM 29 series, you will only be able to follow his career from the Pay and Muster Books of the ships on which he served, but this is all detailed in the leaflet far more clearly than I can put it. Paul On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:20:19 +0200, "Frank Early" <franklyn@tiscali.co.za> wrote: >Greetings all > >One of my forebears, Henry James HARPER, was a lifer in the Royal Navy. His >discharge certificate states that his rate was PO1C, (Petty Officer 1st >Class?) with 3 Good Conduct badges, Character: V.Good, Trade: Sea. He was >"Shore Pensioned" 30 Sept 1874 at the age of 63 in Simon's Town, Cape of >Good Hope. His Pension No was 5.507. But, the document names only the last >ship on which he served before being pensioned: HMS Flora between 1 Jan 1873 >and 30 Sept 1874. > >Is it possible to access his full service history and, if so, how? > >Best wishes > >Frank >South Africa 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Have found that Capt P.E. williams was a resident of Upton by ChesterSailed with Leyland Houston and Clan LinesBorn Bootle 19/2/1882 Rgds cleeves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Finch" <mariners-l@efinch90.fsnet.co.uk> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com>; <robertcleeves1@btinternet.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Fwd: SS Clan Mac Fadyen2 > Hi Robert and Nivard, > > Thanks for your swift reply, but this appears to be another P. Williams. > > British & Commonwealth Merchant Ship Losses by A. J. Tennent gives - > > Clan Macfadyen > 27.11.1942 torpedoed and sunk by U.508 in 08.57N 59.48W on voyage > Mauritius to the UK via Cape Town and Pernambuco and Trinidad with a cargo > of sugar, hemp and rum. The Master, Capt. Percy Edgar Williams, 82 crew > and 7 gunners were lost. 3 crew and 1 gunner were rescued from a raft by > the schooner Harvard and taken to Port of Spain, Trinidad. > > He is listed on the CWGC site at > http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2794114 but no > indication of his origin. > > There is a guide to tracing records of master mariners at > http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/UKMasters.html > > Hope this helps > regards > Ted > > > On 20/09/2011 11:09, Nivard Ovington wrote: >> As a small follow up , both Philip and Ethel are teachers in 1911, >> perhaps that is the common >> denominator regarding Chester ? >> >> Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) >> >> >> >>> Hi Ted >>> >>> Not sure if the poster thought they were a Maritime Captain but suspect >>> he may be an Army man >>> >>> The only Captain P WILLIAMS I could find as a casualty is the following >>> man who also turns out to >>> be a P E >>> >>> >>> Name: WILLIAMS, PHILIP ERNEST >>> Initials: P E >>> Nationality: United Kingdom >>> Rank: Captain >>> Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers >>> Unit Text: 19th Bn. >>> Age: 28 >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > >

Hi Frank, Where did you find the discharge certificate? One of my forebears, Henry James HARPER, was a lifer in the Royal Navy. His discharge certificate states that his rate was PO1C, (Petty Officer 1st Class?) with 3 Good Conduct badges, Character: V.Good, Trade: Sea. I'm hunting for information on what happened to a man who was invalided out of the Navy in 1894 according to his service record. Many service records are on Documents Online from the National Archive and should give you all the ships he served on (with dates), plus a brief physical description of him when he signed on. That's where I found mine. You have to pay for a download, but it's not expensive and if your scan is poor quality (as mine was), you can contact them. They are very helpful and did a re-scan for me.