Hi List, I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a Carpenters Mate. Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I can find out more about his service. He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. Regards Liz

Thanks Clare, that gives me a little more to go on. There is another Thomas Kennerdale in the area, Bolton in fact, born 1826 ish, and I'm inclined to give him the larceny charge! I also found something on a tramp by the same name being done for drunk and disorderly, 1877 I think it was! I think I shall have to order that birth certificate, this is a mystery from my point of view! Judith > From: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 07:15:00 -0400 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MAR] Thomas KENNERDALE > > > Hi Judith > > The only certificate I can find is a Second Mates one issued on 28th > October 1862. It is accompanied by his record, which is 5 years as an apprentice > on "Alfred the Great" on foreign service 24 August 1857 to 24 Aug 1862. At > the time of his application he lived at 92 Roscommon Street, Liverpool and > had been unemployed for 2 months. He gives his birthdate as October 3rd > 1841. There were 2 ships of that name, one a sailing ship registered at > Liverpool in 1850, no crew lists seem to be available. There seem to be a lot of > newspaper reports of the ship, but only "seem" as the site is so slow this > morning I can't access them yet > > 1862 was during the American Civil War, which was bad for British trade > with America. You might like to research this with respect to Liverpool. The > cotton workers of Lancashire suffered great poverty during this war. > > I also have been unable to find out much about Thomas. You would need to > get his birth certificate, Dec q 1841 vol 20 page 394. There are a couple of > people called Kennerdale at the time in Liverpool, but no link to them. > > I believe he was convicted of larceny in Lancashire 5th Jan 1874, > receiving 4 months in prison. The record does not give his age, and I can't find a > reference to the trial in the newspapers of the time. > > Clare > Oxford > UK > > > >Thanks to Rosalind the fair for your help! > >Another query. I have a masters certificate dated 1862 for Thomas > Kennerdale, b. Liverpool 1841. >I'm unableto find any further reference to him > anywhere. Would be very grateful for any help/further locations of him. > >regardsJudith Kennerdale > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she would be put into reserve at her Home Port. The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of weeks at sea. I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : 7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness 1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) 26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of the Diamond Jubilee. 1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. Regards Paul On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] wrote: > >Hi again > >There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under "Mobilization of > the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the Loch) >There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post of >May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit of the >smugglers". >There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) > >Clare >Oxford#UK > > >I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex > >On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright > >On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >Carpenters Mate. > >Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >can find out more about his service. > >He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. > >Regards > >Liz > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Gildas, Thanks for your reply. I have this information, but do you have a list of names? This will make it a lot easier to extract the right ships from my listings. PERSIAN KNOT Sep.1945 delivered incomplete for U.S. War Shipping Administration. 1947 sold to French Government and managed by C.G.T., Le Havre renamed CANCHE 1948 owned by C.G.T., Havre. 1955 sold to Skibs A/S Nordstjernen (Lorentz S. Lyngaas), Tonsberg renamed SUN GLEAM 1963 sold to Cia de Navegacion South Atlantic Star S.A., Panama (Mario Trapani, Naples) renamed STELLA ATLANTICA 1964 transferred to Cia de Navegacion Adriatic Star Line, Panama (Mario Trapani, Naples) renamed ADRIATIC 1965 laid up at Taranto, owner bankrupt. 1969 scrapped at La Spezia GEORGE N. DERN, this should be GEORGE H. DERN and she was a full sized Liberty Ship - see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/LibShipsG.html regards Ted On 07/09/2013 02:19, Gildas wrote: > Hi Ted, Bonjour Yves, Hello everybody, > > I didn't know it was a only French nickname. > On Mariners' site you've a comprehensive list of Liberty ship. > French government got through several means some 90 liberty ships by the end > of war. > In the files I've their first name (as PERSIAN KNOT, GEORGE N. DERN and > others) but they do not appear in this site list. > > To tell everything, late Mr Lecoeur, from the Musée Maritime and Portuaire > in Le Havre, has written a data base of all French-flagged merchant marine > ships since 1850 (more than 12.000). I've started to shift these files onto > Access and I surf to find links and more information ship by ship. > > Regards > Gildas > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De > la part de yves bertrand > Envoyé : vendredi 6 septembre 2013 21:55 > À : [email protected] > Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information > > Hi Ted, Bonjour Gildas, Hello Everybody > > Only the French have nicknamed the US Standard Ships C1-M-AV1s with this > word "Pocket" > > and so Gildas is looking about any informations for these ships under the > French Flag. > > Cheers > > Yves > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > From: Ted Finch > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 7:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information > > Hi Gildas, > > I have details of all the Liberty Ships purchased by France but do not > recognize the term Pocket Liberty Ships. What do you wish to know? > > regards > Ted > > On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty >> ships and I would like to get information upon this ship type. >> >> Is there someone who could help me ? >> Thank you >> >> Gildas >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I stand corrected; 2nd mates certificate.

Hi Liz If you go to the National Archives web site : http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D6663215 you should be able to download Archer's service record for GBP£3.36 If you have any queries regarding the document you might like to come back to me, either directly, or via the list. Regards Paul On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 13:02:46 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi List, > >I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex > >On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright > >On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a Carpenters Mate. > >Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I can find out more about his service. > >He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. > >Regards > >Liz > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Thanks to Rosalind the fair for your help! Another query. I have a masters certificate dated 1862 for Thomas Kennerdale, b. Liverpool 1841. I'm unableto find any further reference to him anywhere. Would be very grateful for any help/further locations of him. regardsJudith Kennerdale

"To tell everything, late Mr Lecoeur, from the Musée Maritime and Portuaire in Le Havre, has written a data base of all French-flagged merchant marine ships since 1850 (more than 12.000). I've started to shift these files onto Access and I surf to find links and more information ship by ship." Is this data base available on line ?. Mick O'Rourke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gildas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information

My apologies, this is a resend - I neglected to change the subject in my first attempt. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: MARINERS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 306 Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 08:52:43 -0200 Hi, I am looking for an image of the brigantine Perseverance, ON 44984 built in 1862 in Fowey, Cornwall, by the shipbuilder Thomas Nickels. Can anyone offer some assistance with this, or advise a good source I could check? Thanks, Jennifer.

Hi, I am looking for an image of the brigantine Perseverance, ON 44984 built in 1862 in Fowey, Cornwall, by the shipbuilder Thomas Nickels. Can anyone offer some assistance with this, or advise a good source I could check? Thanks, Jennifer.

on 7 Sep 2013 Gildas wrote > I didn't know it was a only French nickname. > On Mariners' site you've a comprehensive list of Liberty ship. > French government got through several means some 90 liberty ships by the end > of war. > In the files I've their first name (as PERSIAN KNOT, GEORGE N. DERN and > others) but they do not appear in this site list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a useful list of all the C1-type vessels (though without full histories) at http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/merchantships/wwii/c1cargoships.htm DAvid

Hi Judith The only certificate I can find is a Second Mates one issued on 28th October 1862. It is accompanied by his record, which is 5 years as an apprentice on "Alfred the Great" on foreign service 24 August 1857 to 24 Aug 1862. At the time of his application he lived at 92 Roscommon Street, Liverpool and had been unemployed for 2 months. He gives his birthdate as October 3rd 1841. There were 2 ships of that name, one a sailing ship registered at Liverpool in 1850, no crew lists seem to be available. There seem to be a lot of newspaper reports of the ship, but only "seem" as the site is so slow this morning I can't access them yet 1862 was during the American Civil War, which was bad for British trade with America. You might like to research this with respect to Liverpool. The cotton workers of Lancashire suffered great poverty during this war. I also have been unable to find out much about Thomas. You would need to get his birth certificate, Dec q 1841 vol 20 page 394. There are a couple of people called Kennerdale at the time in Liverpool, but no link to them. I believe he was convicted of larceny in Lancashire 5th Jan 1874, receiving 4 months in prison. The record does not give his age, and I can't find a reference to the trial in the newspapers of the time. Clare Oxford UK >Thanks to Rosalind the fair for your help! >Another query. I have a masters certificate dated 1862 for Thomas Kennerdale, b. Liverpool 1841. >I'm unableto find any further reference to him anywhere. Would be very grateful for any help/further locations of him. >regardsJudith Kennerdale

Hi again There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under "Mobilization of the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the Loch) There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post of May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit of the smugglers". There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ (http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) Clare Oxford#UK I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a Carpenters Mate. Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I can find out more about his service. He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. Regards Liz

Liz I am sure far more knowledgeable people than I will answer, but as far as I can see the only possible "Hearty" is HMS Hearty, a fisheries protection vessel, ship number 95682, built Lowestoft 1888. There is apparently a photo of her if you scroll down the replies to a query on a naval message board, but you have to join to view it- http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8790 Clare Oxford UK In a message dated 07/09/2013 08:16:12 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Hi List, I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a Carpenters Mate. Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I can find out more about his service. He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. Regards Liz

Hi Ted, Bonjour Yves, Hello everybody, I didn't know it was a only French nickname. On Mariners' site you've a comprehensive list of Liberty ship. French government got through several means some 90 liberty ships by the end of war. In the files I've their first name (as PERSIAN KNOT, GEORGE N. DERN and others) but they do not appear in this site list. To tell everything, late Mr Lecoeur, from the Musée Maritime and Portuaire in Le Havre, has written a data base of all French-flagged merchant marine ships since 1850 (more than 12.000). I've started to shift these files onto Access and I surf to find links and more information ship by ship. Regards Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de yves bertrand Envoyé : vendredi 6 septembre 2013 21:55 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information Hi Ted, Bonjour Gildas, Hello Everybody Only the French have nicknamed the US Standard Ships C1-M-AV1s with this word "Pocket" and so Gildas is looking about any informations for these ships under the French Flag. Cheers Yves -----Message d'origine----- From: Ted Finch Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 7:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information Hi Gildas, I have details of all the Liberty Ships purchased by France but do not recognize the term Pocket Liberty Ships. What do you wish to know? regards Ted On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: > Hi, > > Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty > ships and I would like to get information upon this ship type. > > Is there someone who could help me ? > > Thank you > > Gildas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Valerie You asked : > Does this mean that this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he died? That it correct. He will have been included in the alphabetical section for Lieutenants, which in later years, combined all the officers included in the Navy List for that date : he will also be included in the section for Lieutenants in order of seniority. Whilst looking for John Munro, whose name was more clearly printed than your Fred., I found him listed on page 25 of the Navy List, seniority order, for 1816 - and a few pages after the following URL, on page 92, in alphabetical order: <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xYYAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA88&dq=John+Munro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z0UqUpauKaTt0gWh9YDoDA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=John%20Munro&f=false> which also includes a number of other lists from 1814, including Steel's List of the Royal Navy. Regards Paul On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:31:47 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Many thanks for your very informative reply to my query. I didn't have this >information from the Navy List. You mention that Fred Thompson was promoted >to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815 in the July 1830 Navy List. Does this mean that >this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he >died? I did have (cannot remember which series it was in) from the NA a >mention that Frederick 'Passed to Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811' >although he doesn't appear as Lieutenant on any of the ranks on each voyage. >I presume that although he passed to Lieutenant, if a position of Lieutenant >isn't available on a particular voyage, then they are given whatever job is >available. I was surprised that he was given the position of Acting Master >on 3 different ships in Jamaica Jan 1807-Sept 1810 before he passed his >Lieutenant exams in 1811. > >You mention that officers on half pay were allowed, with Admiralty approval, >to take a job outside the Royal Navy. You give suggestions of what >Frederick might have been working as. I will try the NA to see if he worked >in the merchant service. Frederick served on ships in the West Indies and >the Mediteranian so he appears capable of transferring to the merchant >service. > >I'm not sure that he would have actually worked in the colonies as he >married in 1815 and his children were all born in Lambeth from 1816-1832 (9 >in all, not all surviving). This should narrow my search. > >I really appreciate all the details of the navy of the times which makes >research so much more interesting. > >kind regards >Valerie > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:46 AM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career > > > >Hi Valerie > >You may well have this already, judging by the sources you have, but, >looking at the Navy List for July 1830 I see that Frederick, or >Thompson Fred. as he was detailed, was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb >1815, but would presumably have been on half-pay as he's not shown as >having been appointed to a ship. One could suggest that he was one of >the lucky ones as he wasn't, as with so many of his counterparts, >discharged to shore, in that he was promoted to Lieutenant at the end >of the Napoleonic Wars, which meant that as long as he behaved himself >he was guaranteed half-pay until he died, but would remain at the beck >and call of the Admiralty. Meanwhile, with Admiralty approval, as >with many officers in the Service around this period, he could find >himself work in Civvy Street, perhaps working as a harbour master etc. >in ports around the country, or in the colonies, although some >officers found work in the service of other countries, as with >Cochrane, and went to work for countries like Chile, Brazil, and >Greece, circa the 1820s, and in Portugal and Spain, in the early >1830s, whilst others found positions as Masters of merchant vessels, >or went to live in the colonies. > >The less lucky ones were the midshipmen and master' mates and so >forth, who, not being full officers, not having received commissions >or warrants, found themselves on the beach, as was so well illustrated >in a Punch cartoon of the time, showing a midshipman shining shoes in >the City, having served his country against Napoleon for the X number >of years. But at the same time it shouldn't perhaps be forgotten that >over 100,000 naval ratings and marines were also discharged to shore >circa 1814-1817, leaving about 17,000 to man the remaining vessels. > >> I am puzzled by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no >> particular order. > >Midshipman and Master's Mate were about equivalent ranks, whereas >Acting 2nd Master and Acting Master, were progressions from Master's >Mate, but it being war time and the promotions being Acting were >therefore only temporary. A similar sort of thing occurred during both >WWI and II, when many officers were awarded promotions of a temporary >nature, some of which were later confirmed, whilst in many cases >officers returned to their original ranks. Captain Bligh, of Bounty >fame, came up through the ranks of Master's Mate and Master, before >being promoted to Lieutenant and Captain etc. > >And as a final note, it wasn't until many years later that a formal >retirement process was introduced for all officers, so during the >period in question, apart from those who were deemed physically unfit >for sea duties, an officer could remain on half-pay until he went to >meet his Maker. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 19:43:09 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi List, >> >>I am trying to find out more about the naval career of my ancestor >>Frederick Thompson, Lieutenant in the Royal Navy born 1781 died 1833. >> >>I have a copy of his service record between 1803-1815. His rank on the >>first entry is A.B serving on the 'Argo' in the West Indies. I am puzzled >>by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no particular >>order. After the first voyage there were another 12 ships listed with 14 >>voyages (twice on the same 2 ships). His ranks ranged from Midshipman, >>Acting Master, Masters Mate and Acting 2nd Master. These ranks were not in >>any particular order. None of the rank state Lieutenant, but he passed to >>Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811. This information I found at the >>National Archives, but it was a long time ago and I cannot remember which >>series this statement about passing to Lieutenant would have been. >> >>The age of 34 seems to be young to retire from the Navy unless he was >>wounded and I'm not sure where I might find this sort of information. >> >>The only documents I have about Frederick's career is his service record >>National Archives No. ADM 9/3 RP/0885. There is a number at the top of the >>document 4534 and wonder is anyone knows what this number signifies? The >>other document relating to his career is item ref: ADM 45/3/588 which >>states that; >> >>"Frederick Thompson Lieutenant who died 22 July 1833. Notes on executors >>application for money owed by the Royal Navy." >> >>Can anyone tell me if Frederick may have continued in the Royal Navy after >>1815 when the last entry of a voyage was mentioned? >> >>I do have details of his wife and children, but very little about his life >>between 1815-1833 although I know he lived in Lambeth, Surrey from the >>entries of his children's baptisms. >> >>Any help would be much appreciated. >> >>kind regards >>Valerie Richards >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Ted, Bonjour Gildas, Hello Everybody Only the French have nicknamed the US Standard Ships C1-M-AV1s with this word "Pocket" and so Gildas is looking about any informations for these ships under the French Flag. Cheers Yves -----Message d'origine----- From: Ted Finch Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 7:47 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information Hi Gildas, I have details of all the Liberty Ships purchased by France but do not recognize the term Pocket Liberty Ships. What do you wish to know? regards Ted On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: > Hi, > > Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty ships > and > I would like to get information upon this ship type. > > Is there someone who could help me ? > > Thank you > > Gildas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Gildas, I have details of all the Liberty Ships purchased by France but do not recognize the term Pocket Liberty Ships. What do you wish to know? regards Ted On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: > Hi, > > > > Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty ships and > I would like to get information upon this ship type. > > Is there someone who could help me ? > > > > > > Thank you > > Gildas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty ships and I would like to get information upon this ship type. Is there someone who could help me ? Thank you Gildas

Hi Paul, Many thanks for your very informative reply to my query. I didn't have this information from the Navy List. You mention that Fred Thompson was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815 in the July 1830 Navy List. Does this mean that this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he died? I did have (cannot remember which series it was in) from the NA a mention that Frederick 'Passed to Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811' although he doesn't appear as Lieutenant on any of the ranks on each voyage. I presume that although he passed to Lieutenant, if a position of Lieutenant isn't available on a particular voyage, then they are given whatever job is available. I was surprised that he was given the position of Acting Master on 3 different ships in Jamaica Jan 1807-Sept 1810 before he passed his Lieutenant exams in 1811. You mention that officers on half pay were allowed, with Admiralty approval, to take a job outside the Royal Navy. You give suggestions of what Frederick might have been working as. I will try the NA to see if he worked in the merchant service. Frederick served on ships in the West Indies and the Mediteranian so he appears capable of transferring to the merchant service. I'm not sure that he would have actually worked in the colonies as he married in 1815 and his children were all born in Lambeth from 1816-1832 (9 in all, not all surviving). This should narrow my search. I really appreciate all the details of the navy of the times which makes research so much more interesting. kind regards Valerie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career Hi Valerie You may well have this already, judging by the sources you have, but, looking at the Navy List for July 1830 I see that Frederick, or Thompson Fred. as he was detailed, was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815, but would presumably have been on half-pay as he's not shown as having been appointed to a ship. One could suggest that he was one of the lucky ones as he wasn't, as with so many of his counterparts, discharged to shore, in that he was promoted to Lieutenant at the end of the Napoleonic Wars, which meant that as long as he behaved himself he was guaranteed half-pay until he died, but would remain at the beck and call of the Admiralty. Meanwhile, with Admiralty approval, as with many officers in the Service around this period, he could find himself work in Civvy Street, perhaps working as a harbour master etc. in ports around the country, or in the colonies, although some officers found work in the service of other countries, as with Cochrane, and went to work for countries like Chile, Brazil, and Greece, circa the 1820s, and in Portugal and Spain, in the early 1830s, whilst others found positions as Masters of merchant vessels, or went to live in the colonies. The less lucky ones were the midshipmen and master' mates and so forth, who, not being full officers, not having received commissions or warrants, found themselves on the beach, as was so well illustrated in a Punch cartoon of the time, showing a midshipman shining shoes in the City, having served his country against Napoleon for the X number of years. But at the same time it shouldn't perhaps be forgotten that over 100,000 naval ratings and marines were also discharged to shore circa 1814-1817, leaving about 17,000 to man the remaining vessels. > I am puzzled by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no > particular order. Midshipman and Master's Mate were about equivalent ranks, whereas Acting 2nd Master and Acting Master, were progressions from Master's Mate, but it being war time and the promotions being Acting were therefore only temporary. A similar sort of thing occurred during both WWI and II, when many officers were awarded promotions of a temporary nature, some of which were later confirmed, whilst in many cases officers returned to their original ranks. Captain Bligh, of Bounty fame, came up through the ranks of Master's Mate and Master, before being promoted to Lieutenant and Captain etc. And as a final note, it wasn't until many years later that a formal retirement process was introduced for all officers, so during the period in question, apart from those who were deemed physically unfit for sea duties, an officer could remain on half-pay until he went to meet his Maker. Regards Paul On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 19:43:09 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi List, > >I am trying to find out more about the naval career of my ancestor >Frederick Thompson, Lieutenant in the Royal Navy born 1781 died 1833. > >I have a copy of his service record between 1803-1815. His rank on the >first entry is A.B serving on the 'Argo' in the West Indies. I am puzzled >by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no particular >order. After the first voyage there were another 12 ships listed with 14 >voyages (twice on the same 2 ships). His ranks ranged from Midshipman, >Acting Master, Masters Mate and Acting 2nd Master. These ranks were not in >any particular order. None of the rank state Lieutenant, but he passed to >Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811. This information I found at the >National Archives, but it was a long time ago and I cannot remember which >series this statement about passing to Lieutenant would have been. > >The age of 34 seems to be young to retire from the Navy unless he was >wounded and I'm not sure where I might find this sort of information. > >The only documents I have about Frederick's career is his service record >National Archives No. ADM 9/3 RP/0885. There is a number at the top of the >document 4534 and wonder is anyone knows what this number signifies? The >other document relating to his career is item ref: ADM 45/3/588 which >states that; > >"Frederick Thompson Lieutenant who died 22 July 1833. Notes on executors >application for money owed by the Royal Navy." > >Can anyone tell me if Frederick may have continued in the Royal Navy after >1815 when the last entry of a voyage was mentioned? > >I do have details of his wife and children, but very little about his life >between 1815-1833 although I know he lived in Lambeth, Surrey from the >entries of his children's baptisms. > >Any help would be much appreciated. > >kind regards >Valerie Richards > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message