Hi Paul, Thank you for the additional information. I had no idea that the rates of pay were so different and it seems as though Archer was earning a good wage. Would his wife Lucy have recieved a pension after his death? I ask this as on both the 1901 and 1911 census she does not show an occupation. The article about Ships Carpenters I found very interesting. They had so much to do. I was especially fascinated with the section about the keys. Thank you very much for your information and help Take care Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler Hi Liz Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the 19th Century : http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the fleet!. So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. Regards Paul On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, >Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is a >Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 >at >the age of 39. >Thanks once again >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi all > >The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >would be put into reserve at her Home Port. > >The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >weeks at sea. > >I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : > >7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >the Diamond Jubilee. >1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) > >The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >wrote: > >> >>Hi again >> >>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>"Mobilization of >> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>Loch) >>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post >>of >>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit >>of >>the >>smugglers". >>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >> >>Clare >>Oxford#UK >> >> >>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >> >>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >> >>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>Carpenters Mate. >> >>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>can find out more about his service. >> >>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >> >>Regards >> >>Liz >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jean - there are several references to Iddons from Tarleton and Hesketh Bank on both Find My Past and Ancestry.co.uk Ruth > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JEAN SPENCER > Sent: 10 September 2013 16:03 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MAR] Captains of Barrow Schooners > > Hi, >   > I received a lot of help from this list some years ago for > which I was very grateful. >   > I am currently looking at my IDDON ancestors hailing from > Tarleton and Hesketh Bank in Lancashire.  Many of them were > captains of schooners from Barrow-in-Furness. >   > I have been trying to access the web-site Through Mighty Seas > without success.  Can anyone help. >   > Regards, >   > Jean Spencer > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Can we have some forenames please Jean. Ruth > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JEAN SPENCER > Sent: 10 September 2013 16:03 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MAR] Captains of Barrow Schooners > > Hi, >   > I received a lot of help from this list some years ago for > which I was very grateful. >   > I am currently looking at my IDDON ancestors hailing from > Tarleton and Hesketh Bank in Lancashire.  Many of them were > captains of schooners from Barrow-in-Furness. >   > I have been trying to access the web-site Through Mighty Seas > without success.  Can anyone help. >   > Regards, >   > Jean Spencer >

Hi,   I received a lot of help from this list some years ago for which I was very grateful.   I am currently looking at my IDDON ancestors hailing from Tarleton and Hesketh Bank in Lancashire.  Many of them were captains of schooners from Barrow-in-Furness.   I have been trying to access the web-site Through Mighty Seas without success.  Can anyone help.   Regards,   Jean Spencer

Hi David, Thank`s for your explanation on St.Fergus/St.Boniface. You are most probably correct in stating that the photo i have was taken during her trials before the name change and before it was handed over to the Admiralty. I have sent you a scan of the photo off site. Kindest regards, Joe. -----Original Message----- From: asprey david Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 8:13 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Dave Sowdon Subject: Re: [MAR] St.Fergus on 8 Sep 2013 Joe McMillan wrote I have a photograph of the Admiralty tug St.Fergus built 1919 by Fleming & Ferguson at Paisley,Scotland The CLYDESITE database states that the tug was launched as St Fergus but completed as St.Boniface,the Starke/Schell registers and Miramar database say the same yet i have a very clear photograph of the tug under way and the name St.Fergus is plainly visible on her bow. Can anyone explain this anomaly please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suspect that it is "completed" that is causing the confusion. My understanding was that she entered service with the Admiralty as ST BONIFACE. So if this is a pre-delivery trials photo it would still make sense. However, if this is an in-service photo, that would change things. There's no obvious reason to me why they made the name change. The navy didn't have another vessel with a name like "Fergus". It might have been to do with her registration - most of the Saint class were entered on the British register - as there was a ST FERGUS already (the Orkney/Shetland ferry of 1913), though that would not be a bar at that time, it might have been discouraged, especially if the tug might be working in northern waters. But I'm just speculating! She was certainly registered from new as ST BONIFACE. I would be interested to see a scan of the photo if you could send direct. David Asprey ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Latest podcast from the National Archives Tracing your merchant seamen ancestors through crew lists and agreements <http://media.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php/tracing-your-merchant-seamen-ancestors-through-crew-lists-and-agreements/> If you haven't looked (or rather listened) to these before there are many really interesting subjects You can download them to listen on an MP3 player, Ipod, computer or whatever or listen online -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

on 8 Sep 2013 Gildas wrote Yes I've some others : - RING HITCH : I know her name through a ship list I got by David Asprey - GRASS KNOT : ditto - HORSESHOE SPLICE : ditto - RING HITCH : ditto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking at this again, it seems that the list I referenced is somewhat inaccurate http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/merchantships/wwii/c1cargoships.htm I am sorry about that. One that Ted didn't include in his list is PERSIAN KNOT > CANCHE. No doubt he can give the fuller details. This looks like a good source: Jean François Durand "Les Pocket Liberties" (Navires et Marine Marchande, vol 6 pp48-57, Jan 2001) DAvid

on 8 Sep 2013 Joe McMillan wrote I have a photograph of the Admiralty tug St.Fergus built 1919 by Fleming & Ferguson at Paisley,Scotland The CLYDESITE database states that the tug was launched as St Fergus but completed as St.Boniface,the Starke/Schell registers and Miramar database say the same yet i have a very clear photograph of the tug under way and the name St.Fergus is plainly visible on her bow. Can anyone explain this anomaly please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suspect that it is "completed" that is causing the confusion. My understanding was that she entered service with the Admiralty as ST BONIFACE. So if this is a pre-delivery trials photo it would still make sense. However, if this is an in-service photo, that would change things. There's no obvious reason to me why they made the name change. The navy didn't have another vessel with a name like "Fergus". It might have been to do with her registration - most of the Saint class were entered on the British register - as there was a ST FERGUS already (the Orkney/Shetland ferry of 1913), though that would not be a bar at that time, it might have been discouraged, especially if the tug might be working in northern waters. But I'm just speculating! She was certainly registered from new as ST BONIFACE. I would be interested to see a scan of the photo if you could send direct. David Asprey

Hi Liz Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the 19th Century : http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the fleet!. So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. Regards Paul On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, >Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is a >Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 at >the age of 39. >Thanks once again >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi all > >The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >would be put into reserve at her Home Port. > >The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >weeks at sea. > >I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : > >7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >the Diamond Jubilee. >1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) > >The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >wrote: > >> >>Hi again >> >>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>"Mobilization of >> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>Loch) >>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post of >>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit of >>the >>smugglers". >>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >> >>Clare >>Oxford#UK >> >> >>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >> >>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >> >>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>Carpenters Mate. >> >>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>can find out more about his service. >> >>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >> >>Regards >> >>Liz >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi All, I have a photograph of the Admiralty tug St.Fergus built 1919 by Fleming & Ferguson at Paisley,Scotland The CLYDESITE database states that the tug was launched as St Fergus but completed as St.Boniface,the Starke/Schell registers and Miramar database say the same yet i have a very clear photograph of the tug under way and the name St.Fergus is plainly visible on her bow. Can anyone explain this anomaly please. Kindest regards, Joe McMillan, South Australia.

Thank you Ted, Yes I've some others : - RING HITCH : I know her name through a ship list I got by David Asprey - GRASS KNOT : ditto - HORSESHOE SPLICE : ditto - RING HITCH : ditto But as I previously wrote, I currently working in Bangladesh and I only have with me the Access ship list. The 8,000 others are in Le Havre. On paper. When I am in France I type as many ships I can, and then when I'm in Bangladesh I read them, and look for further information. I know it's very slow but I'm working alone on that project. On the 1rst of October I will go to the Museum to find these ship files. And I keep you inform Regards Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : Ted Finch [mailto:[email protected]] Envoyé : dimanche 8 septembre 2013 14:55 À : [email protected]; [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information Hi Gildas, Here all the U.S. built C1-M type ships sold to France that I have GWINNETT 3,805 g.t. launched April 1945 by Walter Butler Shipbuilders, Superior, Wisc. for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie de Nav. Daher, Marseille) renamed STE HELENE 1955 owned by Cie de Nav. Daher, Marseille 1968 sold to Grand Seas Shipping Lines (Litonjua & Co), Manila renamed PRINCE K.L. 1970 scrapped at Hong Kong. KENOSHA 3,805 g.t. launched Aug.1945 by Walter Butler Shipbuilders, Superior, Wisc. for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Ingvald Bjorneboes Rederi A/S, Kristiansand, Norway renamed RIO DALE 1959 sold to Trom A/S (Ths R. Ohmdahl), Haugesund renamed TORIAN 1963 sold to D/S A/S Laly (C. T. Gogstad & Co), Oslo renamed LARS VIKING 1965 sold to Soc. des Forages en Mer "Neptune", Marseille renamed NEPTUNE V 1966 converted to drilling ship. 1967 sold to Arabian Drilling Co, Ras-al-Khafji renamed ARABDRILL 2 1984 scrapped at Gadani Beach. NICOLLET 3,805 g.t. launched Apr.1945 byy Globe Shipbuilding Co,Superior, Wisc for U.S. Navy. 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie Franco-Cherifienne de Nav), Casablanca renamed DJERADA 1956 owned by Cie Franco-Cherifienne de Nav, Casablanca. 1960 Cie Marocaine de Navigation, Casablanca. 10th Nov.1968 damaged in collision at Dunkerque and sold to N.V. Intershitra, resold to Spanish buyers, towed to Cartagena and 1970 scrapped. SPANISH BOWLINE 3,806 g.t. May.1945 launched by Pennsylvania Shipyards, Beaumont, Texas for U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Ets Maurel & Prom, Bordeaux renamed HUBERT PROM 1968 sold to Philippine Seamasters Co (Litonjua Shipping Co), Manila renamed BARON K.L. 8th Feb.1971 sunk in collision with Panamanian ship METHONI 230 miles west from Manila in 17.47N 118.55E PONTOTOC 3,805 g.t. launched March 1945 by Leatham D. Smith SB Co, Sturgeon Bay, Wisc for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie des Messageries Maritimes), Marseille renamed TAURUS 1950 owned by Cie des Messageries Maritimes, Marseille 1960 sold to Scotto, Ambrosino, Pugliese, Oran renamed TADGERA 1963 sold to Soc. Algero-Marocaine de Nav. Cotiere, Casablanca 1964 sold to Myriam Maritime Co (George N. Moatsos). Piraeus renamed MYRIAM 1968 scrapped at Valencia. ROCKDALE 3,805 g.t., launched May 1945 by Leatham D. Smith SB Co, Sturgeon Bay, Wisc for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Herlof Andersens Rederi, Kristiansand renamed APOLLO 1952 sold to Cie des Messageries Maritimes, Dunkerque renamed THABOR 1960 sold to Cie de Nav. Denis Freres, Bordeaux renamed ETIENNE DENIS 1962 sold to Atlantic Far East Lines, Monrovia (C. Y. Tung) renamed HONGKONG PIONEER 1970 scrapped at Kaohsiung MARLINE BEND 3,807 g.t., launched incomplete as MARLINE BEND by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga. Oct.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla as BRESLE for French Government (C. G. T.), Le Havre 1948 owned by C. G. T, Le Havre 1964 sold to Maraprecio Cia Nav (D, T, Petropoulos), Piraeus renamed MERRY MED 1969 sold to Cia Anon Naviera Orinoco, La Guaira, Venezuela renamed AROA 1971 sold to Toufic Aris & Fils, Beirut renamed ARIMAR 26th October 1971 stranded after engine room explosion and fire near Eleuthera, Bahamas. CROSSING KNOT 3,805 g.t. launched incomplete as CROSSING KNOT by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga., Nov.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as DIVES for French Government (Cie de Nav Paquet), Marseille. 1948 owned by Cie de Nav. Paquet, Marseille 1964 sold to Marexacta Cia Nav, Piraeus (D. T. Petropoulos) renamed RADIANT MED. 1972 scrapped at Perama. SOLID SINNET 3,805 g.t., launched incomplete as SOLID SINNET by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga. Dec.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as AULNE for French Government (Cie de Nav. Paquet), Marseille 1948 owned by Cie de Nav. Paquet, Marseille 1965 sold to United Maritime Enterprises, Piraeus (D. T. Petropoulos) renamed SERENE MED 1972 sold to Symphonia Shipping Co, Famagusta (N. Tsimaras) renamed ATHEN 1980 scrapped at Castellon. FLAT KNOT 3,805 g.t. launched incomplete as FLAT KNOT by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga., Dec.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as COUESNON for French Government (Cie de Nav. Paquet), Marseille. 1948 owned by Cia de Nav. Paquet, Marseille. 1963 sold to Eastern Shipping Lines, Manila renamed EASTERN JUPITER 1970 scrapped at Izumi-Otsu, Japan. These are all I can find, if you have any others, let me know. regards Ted On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: > Hi, > > > > Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty > ships and I would like to get information upon this ship type. > > Is there someone who could help me ? > > > > > > Thank you > > Gildas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Gildas, Here all the U.S. built C1-M type ships sold to France that I have GWINNETT 3,805 g.t. launched April 1945 by Walter Butler Shipbuilders, Superior, Wisc. for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie de Nav. Daher, Marseille) renamed STE HELENE 1955 owned by Cie de Nav. Daher, Marseille 1968 sold to Grand Seas Shipping Lines (Litonjua & Co), Manila renamed PRINCE K.L. 1970 scrapped at Hong Kong. KENOSHA 3,805 g.t. launched Aug.1945 by Walter Butler Shipbuilders, Superior, Wisc. for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Ingvald Bjorneboes Rederi A/S, Kristiansand, Norway renamed RIO DALE 1959 sold to Trom A/S (Ths R. Ohmdahl), Haugesund renamed TORIAN 1963 sold to D/S A/S Laly (C. T. Gogstad & Co), Oslo renamed LARS VIKING 1965 sold to Soc. des Forages en Mer "Neptune", Marseille renamed NEPTUNE V 1966 converted to drilling ship. 1967 sold to Arabian Drilling Co, Ras-al-Khafji renamed ARABDRILL 2 1984 scrapped at Gadani Beach. NICOLLET 3,805 g.t. launched Apr.1945 byy Globe Shipbuilding Co,Superior, Wisc for U.S. Navy. 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie Franco-Cherifienne de Nav), Casablanca renamed DJERADA 1956 owned by Cie Franco-Cherifienne de Nav, Casablanca. 1960 Cie Marocaine de Navigation, Casablanca. 10th Nov.1968 damaged in collision at Dunkerque and sold to N.V. Intershitra, resold to Spanish buyers, towed to Cartagena and 1970 scrapped. SPANISH BOWLINE 3,806 g.t. May.1945 launched by Pennsylvania Shipyards, Beaumont, Texas for U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Ets Maurel & Prom, Bordeaux renamed HUBERT PROM 1968 sold to Philippine Seamasters Co (Litonjua Shipping Co), Manila renamed BARON K.L. 8th Feb.1971 sunk in collision with Panamanian ship METHONI 230 miles west from Manila in 17.47N 118.55E PONTOTOC 3,805 g.t. launched March 1945 by Leatham D. Smith SB Co, Sturgeon Bay, Wisc for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to French Government (Cie des Messageries Maritimes), Marseille renamed TAURUS 1950 owned by Cie des Messageries Maritimes, Marseille 1960 sold to Scotto, Ambrosino, Pugliese, Oran renamed TADGERA 1963 sold to Soc. Algero-Marocaine de Nav. Cotiere, Casablanca 1964 sold to Myriam Maritime Co (George N. Moatsos). Piraeus renamed MYRIAM 1968 scrapped at Valencia. ROCKDALE 3,805 g.t., launched May 1945 by Leatham D. Smith SB Co, Sturgeon Bay, Wisc for U.S. Navy 1946 transferred to U.S. Maritime Commission. 1947 sold to Herlof Andersens Rederi, Kristiansand renamed APOLLO 1952 sold to Cie des Messageries Maritimes, Dunkerque renamed THABOR 1960 sold to Cie de Nav. Denis Freres, Bordeaux renamed ETIENNE DENIS 1962 sold to Atlantic Far East Lines, Monrovia (C. Y. Tung) renamed HONGKONG PIONEER 1970 scrapped at Kaohsiung MARLINE BEND 3,807 g.t., launched incomplete as MARLINE BEND by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga. Oct.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla as BRESLE for French Government (C. G. T.), Le Havre 1948 owned by C. G. T, Le Havre 1964 sold to Maraprecio Cia Nav (D, T, Petropoulos), Piraeus renamed MERRY MED 1969 sold to Cia Anon Naviera Orinoco, La Guaira, Venezuela renamed AROA 1971 sold to Toufic Aris & Fils, Beirut renamed ARIMAR 26th October 1971 stranded after engine room explosion and fire near Eleuthera, Bahamas. CROSSING KNOT 3,805 g.t. launched incomplete as CROSSING KNOT by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga., Nov.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as DIVES for French Government (Cie de Nav Paquet), Marseille. 1948 owned by Cie de Nav. Paquet, Marseille 1964 sold to Marexacta Cia Nav, Piraeus (D. T. Petropoulos) renamed RADIANT MED. 1972 scrapped at Perama. SOLID SINNET 3,805 g.t., launched incomplete as SOLID SINNET by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga. Dec.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as AULNE for French Government (Cie de Nav. Paquet), Marseille 1948 owned by Cie de Nav. Paquet, Marseille 1965 sold to United Maritime Enterprises, Piraeus (D. T. Petropoulos) renamed SERENE MED 1972 sold to Symphonia Shipping Co, Famagusta (N. Tsimaras) renamed ATHEN 1980 scrapped at Castellon. FLAT KNOT 3,805 g.t. launched incomplete as FLAT KNOT by Southeastern SB Corp, Savannah, Ga., Dec.1946 completed by Tampa SB Corp, Tampa Fla. as COUESNON for French Government (Cie de Nav. Paquet), Marseille. 1948 owned by Cia de Nav. Paquet, Marseille. 1963 sold to Eastern Shipping Lines, Manila renamed EASTERN JUPITER 1970 scrapped at Izumi-Otsu, Japan. These are all I can find, if you have any others, let me know. regards Ted On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: > Hi, > > > > Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty ships and > I would like to get information upon this ship type. > > Is there someone who could help me ? > > > > > > Thank you > > Gildas > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Paul, Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is a Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 at the age of 39. Thanks once again Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler Hi all The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she would be put into reserve at her Home Port. The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of weeks at sea. I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : 7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness 1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) 26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of the Diamond Jubilee. 1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. Regards Paul On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] wrote: > >Hi again > >There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >"Mobilization of > the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >Loch) >There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post of >May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit of >the >smugglers". >There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) > >Clare >Oxford#UK > > >I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex > >On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright > >On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >Carpenters Mate. > >Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >can find out more about his service. > >He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. > >Regards > >Liz > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

hello, back on the twentieth. you will be the first call. david On 9/5/2013 5:43 PM, Judith Williams wrote: > Hell Peter, > Yes, you are dating yourself and me too. I well remember those tea chests, > both for removal and skiffle music. Ah, the mariners' list is fascinating, > even though they could not find the answer I wanted, but I love it, for > what I learn. > Judith in Metung, Victoria, Australia. > > > On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Peter Monks <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Would the construction of the tea chests, light and sturdy, have been used >> for the opium trade? I recall from my youth these chests being used for >> transportation by removal companies. I read of the skills of chinese >> construction workers to fabricate these boxes to fit all available space on >> the ships. Size and construction would reduce availability of the material? >> >> For interest these tea chests became musical bases in early skiffle music, >> complete with broom handle and string, scales obtained by tension, or am i >> dating myself? >> >> Always interested in matters nautical, and obscure. Landing of first >> planes on ship with rope handles under the wings, to which enthusiastic >> bodies lept out to secure the plane and pilot. Many thanks. Peter Canada >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6645 - Release Date: 09/07/13 > > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 56730 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

Thank you, There could be a typing mistake in the file. Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Ted Finch Envoyé : samedi 7 septembre 2013 11:34 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information Hi Gildas, Thanks for your reply. I have this information, but do you have a list of names? This will make it a lot easier to extract the right ships from my listings. PERSIAN KNOT Sep.1945 delivered incomplete for U.S. War Shipping Administration. 1947 sold to French Government and managed by C.G.T., Le Havre renamed CANCHE 1948 owned by C.G.T., Havre. 1955 sold to Skibs A/S Nordstjernen (Lorentz S. Lyngaas), Tonsberg renamed SUN GLEAM 1963 sold to Cia de Navegacion South Atlantic Star S.A., Panama (Mario Trapani, Naples) renamed STELLA ATLANTICA 1964 transferred to Cia de Navegacion Adriatic Star Line, Panama (Mario Trapani, Naples) renamed ADRIATIC 1965 laid up at Taranto, owner bankrupt. 1969 scrapped at La Spezia GEORGE N. DERN, this should be GEORGE H. DERN and she was a full sized Liberty Ship - see http://www.mariners-l.co.uk/LibShipsG.html regards Ted On 07/09/2013 02:19, Gildas wrote: > Hi Ted, Bonjour Yves, Hello everybody, > > I didn't know it was a only French nickname. > On Mariners' site you've a comprehensive list of Liberty ship. > French government got through several means some 90 liberty ships by > the end of war. > In the files I've their first name (as PERSIAN KNOT, GEORGE N. DERN > and > others) but they do not appear in this site list. > > To tell everything, late Mr Lecoeur, from the Musée Maritime and > Portuaire in Le Havre, has written a data base of all French-flagged > merchant marine ships since 1850 (more than 12.000). I've started to > shift these files onto Access and I surf to find links and more information ship by ship. > > Regards > Gildas > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de yves bertrand > Envoyé : vendredi 6 septembre 2013 21:55 À : [email protected] > Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information > > Hi Ted, Bonjour Gildas, Hello Everybody > > Only the French have nicknamed the US Standard Ships C1-M-AV1s with > this word "Pocket" > > and so Gildas is looking about any informations for these ships under > the French Flag. > > Cheers > > Yves > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > From: Ted Finch > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 7:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information > > Hi Gildas, > > I have details of all the Liberty Ships purchased by France but do not > recognize the term Pocket Liberty Ships. What do you wish to know? > > regards > Ted > > On 06/09/2013 16:01, Gildas wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Some French merchant ships bought in 1945-1946 were pocket liberty >> ships and I would like to get information upon this ship type. >> >> Is there someone who could help me ? >> Thank you >> >> Gildas >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good evening, Unfortunately this data base is not available on line : Mr Lecoeur built it on paper ! I've started to shift but I've "only" 4,264 ships from its 12,000. The work is going on but as I checked all information it takes a lot of time. Please ask me and it will be a pleasure to give you what I already have. Regards Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Mick O Rourke Envoyé : samedi 7 septembre 2013 10:37 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information "To tell everything, late Mr Lecoeur, from the Musée Maritime and Portuaire in Le Havre, has written a data base of all French-flagged merchant marine ships since 1850 (more than 12.000). I've started to shift these files onto Access and I surf to find links and more information ship by ship." Is this data base available on line ?. Mick O'Rourke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gildas" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 2:19 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank You Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de asprey david Envoyé : samedi 7 septembre 2013 09:44 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Pocket liberty ship information on 7 Sep 2013 Gildas wrote > I didn't know it was a only French nickname. > On Mariners' site you've a comprehensive list of Liberty ship. > French government got through several means some 90 liberty ships by > the end of war. > In the files I've their first name (as PERSIAN KNOT, GEORGE N. DERN > and > others) but they do not appear in this site list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a useful list of all the C1-type vessels (though without full histories) at http://shipbuildinghistory.com/history/merchantships/wwii/c1cargoships.htm DAvid ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, I am trying to find if my ancestor Frederick Colepeper was Master on any more merchant ships after a voyage ending in early 1842. I do have the crew list of Frederick being Master on the 'Carleton' from 1840-1842 London - Singapore, then Hong King and back to Singapore and London. I found the information from Lloyds List. His earliest voyage I can find was on was the 'Asia' 1827 3rd Mate, 'Sir Charles Forbes' 1830 3rd Officer (both these ships were convict ships to Tasmania from London). There are five more ships mentioned in his service record on BT 112/14 National Archives between 1836-1839 - Ships Carpenter on all of these. >From the information I have all these voyages were to the Far East or West Indies. He died in 1848 six years after the 'Carleton' voyage aged 42, but I cannot find him on other voyages in Lloyds List. If he reverted to a lower rank than Master after 1842, can anyone suggest a way of finding him on later voyages. Any help would be appreciated. regards Valerie Richards

Hi Paul, Many thanks again for your help. I didn't realise you could get the Navy List on Google books although I am aware of the Lloyds List on Google books. I have just looked at Google books and found Frederick Thompson mentioned in the 1831 book (this time his name is in full) but it gives the details you gave me on 3rd Feb 1815. kind regards Valerie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career Hi Valerie You asked : > Does this mean that this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from > 1815 to 1833 when he died? That it correct. He will have been included in the alphabetical section for Lieutenants, which in later years, combined all the officers included in the Navy List for that date : he will also be included in the section for Lieutenants in order of seniority. Whilst looking for John Munro, whose name was more clearly printed than your Fred., I found him listed on page 25 of the Navy List, seniority order, for 1816 - and a few pages after the following URL, on page 92, in alphabetical order: <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xYYAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA88&dq=John+Munro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z0UqUpauKaTt0gWh9YDoDA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=John%20Munro&f=false> which also includes a number of other lists from 1814, including Steel's List of the Royal Navy. Regards Paul On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:31:47 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Many thanks for your very informative reply to my query. I didn't have >this >information from the Navy List. You mention that Fred Thompson was >promoted >to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815 in the July 1830 Navy List. Does this mean that >this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he >died? I did have (cannot remember which series it was in) from the NA a >mention that Frederick 'Passed to Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November >1811' >although he doesn't appear as Lieutenant on any of the ranks on each >voyage. >I presume that although he passed to Lieutenant, if a position of >Lieutenant >isn't available on a particular voyage, then they are given whatever job is >available. I was surprised that he was given the position of Acting Master >on 3 different ships in Jamaica Jan 1807-Sept 1810 before he passed his >Lieutenant exams in 1811. > >You mention that officers on half pay were allowed, with Admiralty >approval, >to take a job outside the Royal Navy. You give suggestions of what >Frederick might have been working as. I will try the NA to see if he >worked >in the merchant service. Frederick served on ships in the West Indies and >the Mediteranian so he appears capable of transferring to the merchant >service. > >I'm not sure that he would have actually worked in the colonies as he >married in 1815 and his children were all born in Lambeth from 1816-1832 (9 >in all, not all surviving). This should narrow my search. > >I really appreciate all the details of the navy of the times which makes >research so much more interesting. > >kind regards >Valerie > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:46 AM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career > > > >Hi Valerie > >You may well have this already, judging by the sources you have, but, >looking at the Navy List for July 1830 I see that Frederick, or >Thompson Fred. as he was detailed, was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb >1815, but would presumably have been on half-pay as he's not shown as >having been appointed to a ship. One could suggest that he was one of >the lucky ones as he wasn't, as with so many of his counterparts, >discharged to shore, in that he was promoted to Lieutenant at the end >of the Napoleonic Wars, which meant that as long as he behaved himself >he was guaranteed half-pay until he died, but would remain at the beck >and call of the Admiralty. Meanwhile, with Admiralty approval, as >with many officers in the Service around this period, he could find >himself work in Civvy Street, perhaps working as a harbour master etc. >in ports around the country, or in the colonies, although some >officers found work in the service of other countries, as with >Cochrane, and went to work for countries like Chile, Brazil, and >Greece, circa the 1820s, and in Portugal and Spain, in the early >1830s, whilst others found positions as Masters of merchant vessels, >or went to live in the colonies. > >The less lucky ones were the midshipmen and master' mates and so >forth, who, not being full officers, not having received commissions >or warrants, found themselves on the beach, as was so well illustrated >in a Punch cartoon of the time, showing a midshipman shining shoes in >the City, having served his country against Napoleon for the X number >of years. But at the same time it shouldn't perhaps be forgotten that >over 100,000 naval ratings and marines were also discharged to shore >circa 1814-1817, leaving about 17,000 to man the remaining vessels. > >> I am puzzled by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems >> no >> particular order. > >Midshipman and Master's Mate were about equivalent ranks, whereas >Acting 2nd Master and Acting Master, were progressions from Master's >Mate, but it being war time and the promotions being Acting were >therefore only temporary. A similar sort of thing occurred during both >WWI and II, when many officers were awarded promotions of a temporary >nature, some of which were later confirmed, whilst in many cases >officers returned to their original ranks. Captain Bligh, of Bounty >fame, came up through the ranks of Master's Mate and Master, before >being promoted to Lieutenant and Captain etc. > >And as a final note, it wasn't until many years later that a formal >retirement process was introduced for all officers, so during the >period in question, apart from those who were deemed physically unfit >for sea duties, an officer could remain on half-pay until he went to >meet his Maker. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 19:43:09 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi List, >> >>I am trying to find out more about the naval career of my ancestor >>Frederick Thompson, Lieutenant in the Royal Navy born 1781 died 1833. >> >>I have a copy of his service record between 1803-1815. His rank on the >>first entry is A.B serving on the 'Argo' in the West Indies. I am puzzled >>by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no particular >>order. After the first voyage there were another 12 ships listed with 14 >>voyages (twice on the same 2 ships). His ranks ranged from Midshipman, >>Acting Master, Masters Mate and Acting 2nd Master. These ranks were not >>in >>any particular order. None of the rank state Lieutenant, but he passed to >>Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811. This information I found at the >>National Archives, but it was a long time ago and I cannot remember which >>series this statement about passing to Lieutenant would have been. >> >>The age of 34 seems to be young to retire from the Navy unless he was >>wounded and I'm not sure where I might find this sort of information. >> >>The only documents I have about Frederick's career is his service record >>National Archives No. ADM 9/3 RP/0885. There is a number at the top of >>the >>document 4534 and wonder is anyone knows what this number signifies? The >>other document relating to his career is item ref: ADM 45/3/588 which >>states that; >> >>"Frederick Thompson Lieutenant who died 22 July 1833. Notes on executors >>application for money owed by the Royal Navy." >> >>Can anyone tell me if Frederick may have continued in the Royal Navy >>after >>1815 when the last entry of a voyage was mentioned? >> >>I do have details of his wife and children, but very little about his life >>between 1815-1833 although I know he lived in Lambeth, Surrey from the >>entries of his children's baptisms. >> >>Any help would be much appreciated. >> >>kind regards >>Valerie Richards >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jennifer, For the Fowey brigantine Perseverance ON 44894 (sic), have you tried the ShipIndex website at  http://www.shipindex.org/ships/perseverance/page/3  ? This appears to cite a book reference or references, which might possibly include an illustration of her - perhaps someone on the List is a subscriber? Best regards, Peter Klein ________________________________ From: Jennifer Murray <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2013, 11:54 Subject: [MAR] Seeking image of brigantine Perseverance, ON 44984 My apologies, this is a resend - I neglected to change the subject in my first attempt. From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: RE: MARINERS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 306 Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 08:52:43 -0200 Hi, I am looking for an image of the brigantine Perseverance, ON 44984 built in 1862 in Fowey, Cornwall, by the shipbuilder Thomas Nickels.    Can anyone offer some assistance with this, or advise a good source I could check? Thanks, Jennifer.                                                 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message