Hi List, In 1959 Royal Mail Lines took delivery of the passenger liner AMAZON. In 1968 she was transferred to Shaw, Savill & Albion Line and renamed AKAROA. I have seen several references to a clash of cultures when the Royal Mail crew handed her over to a Shaw, Savill crew. Can anyone please expand on this affair? regards Ted (ex-Royal Mail Line)

Thanks Peter, but NY is a little far away forme ! Regards JAcques -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Peter Monks Envoyé : jeudi 19 septembre 2013 16:27 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Cape Horn Greetings, not to play one upmanship, but the Laeisz Shipping Company of Hamburg illustrated the quality of their ships and crews. Example: Robert Hilgendorf born 1852 He sailed sixty six times around Cape Horn. 1881 he was master of PARNASS, PARSIFAL, PROFESSOR, PIRAT, PERGAMON, PALMYRA, PLACILLA, PITLOCHRY, POTOSI. Max Heinrich Jurgen Jurs also listed as 66 times, after the war he was master of PRIWALL, PINNAS, PASSAT, PEKING I was on the PEKING/ARETHUSA school ship that no longer went to sea. Should you be interested there is a video film of the PEKING going round Cape Horn, from South Street Museum, New York. Peter, Canada On 2013-09-18, at 8:31 AM, "Archives" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello listers, > > My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, > twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. > > The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then > Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September > 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao > April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, > 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. > > The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; > she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. > Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that > time where I could find the dates of passage ? > Many thanks to all and Best regards > > Jacques Damster > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Rhonda, Unfortunately not :-( It took me some days to look through arrival and departure notices at the maritime archives of the port of Antwerp! Some have been microfilmed, but more difficult to use as the paper version for this one enables to switch all uninteressant pages. Jacques -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Rhonda Staskow Envoyé : vendredi 20 septembre 2013 03:07 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Cape Horn HI Jacques Is the Belgian newspaper online? Rhonda

I should have said the video film of the PEKING going round Cape Horne is/was being sold, from the South Street Museum, New York, a fantastic visual record of the dangers involved. (1929) On 2013-09-20, at 6:20 AM, "Archives" <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Peter, but NY is a little far away forme ! > Regards > JAcques > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De > la part de Peter Monks > Envoyé : jeudi 19 septembre 2013 16:27 > À : [email protected] > Objet : Re: [MAR] Cape Horn > > Greetings, not to play one upmanship, but the Laeisz Shipping Company of > Hamburg illustrated the quality of their ships and crews. Example: Robert > Hilgendorf born 1852 He sailed sixty six times around Cape Horn. 1881 he > was master of PARNASS, PARSIFAL, PROFESSOR, PIRAT, PERGAMON, PALMYRA, > PLACILLA, PITLOCHRY, POTOSI. Max Heinrich Jurgen Jurs also listed as 66 > times, after the war he was master of PRIWALL, PINNAS, PASSAT, PEKING > > I was on the PEKING/ARETHUSA school ship that no longer went to sea. > > Should you be interested there is a video film of the PEKING going round > Cape Horn, from South Street Museum, New York. > > Peter, Canada > > On 2013-09-18, at 8:31 AM, "Archives" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Hello listers, >> >> My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, >> twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. >> >> The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then >> Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September >> 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao >> April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, >> 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. >> >> The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; >> she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. >> Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that >> time where I could find the dates of passage ? >> Many thanks to all and Best regards >> >> Jacques Damster >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HI Jacques Is the Belgian newspaper online? Rhonda On Thursday, September 19, 2013, Archives wrote: > Many, many thanks Rhonda. > I'll have a deep look at it; my sources were the Belgian shipping paper > called "Lloyd Anversois" which announced departures and arrivals at > Antwerp, > and also at other ports! > Best ragards > JAcques > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : [email protected] <javascript:;> [mailto: > [email protected] <javascript:;>] De > la part de Rhonda Staskow > Envoyé : jeudi 19 septembre 2013 01:37 > À : [email protected] > Objet : Re: [MAR] Cape Horn > > Hi Jacques - > > Have you tried the Dutch newspapers for that period - They made reference > to > both ships, however, while not checking every entry, I did not find > specific > references to Cape Horn. You can narrow the search by year. > > http://kranten.kb.nl/ > > I checked the Australian newspapers as well, and the ship Schaldis was > mentioned in January 1868, having run ashore at Queenscliff (which is near > Melbourne.) In February 1868, it sailed for Callao. > > http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home > > Regards, Rhonda > > > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Archives <[email protected]<javascript:;>> > wrote: > > > > > Hello listers, > > > > My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, > > twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. > > > > The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then > > Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September > > 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao > > April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, > > 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. > > > > The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; > > she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. > > Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that > > time where I could find the dates of passage ? > > Many thanks to all and Best regards > > > > Jacques Damster > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] <javascript:;> with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Many, many thanks Rhonda. I'll have a deep look at it; my sources were the Belgian shipping paper called "Lloyd Anversois" which announced departures and arrivals at Antwerp, and also at other ports! Best ragards JAcques -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Rhonda Staskow Envoyé : jeudi 19 septembre 2013 01:37 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] Cape Horn Hi Jacques - Have you tried the Dutch newspapers for that period - They made reference to both ships, however, while not checking every entry, I did not find specific references to Cape Horn. You can narrow the search by year. http://kranten.kb.nl/ I checked the Australian newspapers as well, and the ship Schaldis was mentioned in January 1868, having run ashore at Queenscliff (which is near Melbourne.) In February 1868, it sailed for Callao. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home Regards, Rhonda On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Archives <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello listers, > > My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, > twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. > > The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then > Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September > 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao > April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, > 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. > > The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; > she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. > Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that > time where I could find the dates of passage ? > Many thanks to all and Best regards > > Jacques Damster > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greetings, not to play one upmanship, but the Laeisz Shipping Company of Hamburg illustrated the quality of their ships and crews. Example: Robert Hilgendorf born 1852 He sailed sixty six times around Cape Horn. 1881 he was master of PARNASS, PARSIFAL, PROFESSOR, PIRAT, PERGAMON, PALMYRA, PLACILLA, PITLOCHRY, POTOSI. Max Heinrich Jurgen Jurs also listed as 66 times, after the war he was master of PRIWALL, PINNAS, PASSAT, PEKING I was on the PEKING/ARETHUSA school ship that no longer went to sea. Should you be interested there is a video film of the PEKING going round Cape Horn, from South Street Museum, New York. Peter, Canada On 2013-09-18, at 8:31 AM, "Archives" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello listers, > > My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, twice > on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. > > The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then Callao > where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September 22nd, 1866 for > Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao April 4th, 1868, then > Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, 1868 for arriving Antwerp > October 18th, 1868. > > The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; she was > back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. > Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that time > where I could find the dates of passage ? > Many thanks to all and Best regards > > Jacques Damster > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul What a fantastic resource for those lucky enough to have ancestors in the list - did you compile it? Clare >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Nbd/MN_Masters_for_RN_Officers.html#top

Hi Jacques - Have you tried the Dutch newspapers for that period - They made reference to both ships, however, while not checking every entry, I did not find specific references to Cape Horn. You can narrow the search by year. http://kranten.kb.nl/ I checked the Australian newspapers as well, and the ship Schaldis was mentioned in January 1868, having run ashore at Queenscliff (which is near Melbourne.) In February 1868, it sailed for Callao. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home Regards, Rhonda On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Archives <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello listers, > > My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, twice > on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. > > The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then Callao > where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September 22nd, 1866 for > Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao April 4th, 1868, then > Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, 1868 for arriving Antwerp > October 18th, 1868. > > The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; she > was > back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. > Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that time > where I could find the dates of passage ? > Many thanks to all and Best regards > > Jacques Damster > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello listers, My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that time where I could find the dates of passage ? Many thanks to all and Best regards Jacques Damster

Hello listers, My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that time where I could find the dates of passage ? Many thanks to all and Best regards Jacques Damster

Hello listers, My ggfather, born in 1853, passed the Cape Horn at least three times, twice on the Schaldis once on the Don Juan. The Schaldis left Antwerp November 27th, 1865 for Cardiff and then Callao where she arrived June 17th, 1866. She left Callao September 22nd, 1866 for Antwerp. On a consecutive voyage she arrived Callao April 4th, 1868, then Islas Chinchas from which she departed June 4th, 1868 for arriving Antwerp October 18th, 1868. The Don Juan left Antwerp July 22nd 1871 for Cardiff and then Payta; she was back in Antwerp December, 24th 1872. Is there any list of the vessels which passed the Cape Horn at that time where I could find the dates of passage ? Many thanks to all and Best regards Jacques Damster

Have uploaded what one might describe as an index of RN Officers who qualified as Masters in the Merchant Service circa late 1870s - Jan 1922 and about 500 Merchant Service Masters who were supplied with replacement Certificates during the latter decades of the 19th Century per BT-124-23-0-1 : http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Nbd/MN_Masters_for_RN_Officers.html#top Whilst ploughing through have found a few items of interest, IMHO, and the sort of material that is sometimes included, along with occasional reports of the death of a master, when his certificate was returned, or a replacement was issued following a shipwreck, or having been stolen etc., and the fact that during the latter part of the Century some 500 R.N. and R.I.M. officers were also certified ...in the nicest possible way, you will understand ;-) Lt W.W. C. Frith, RIM, Certificate No. 76692 : with reference to a letter mentioned at the same time, ref. 31094/19, ie probably of 1919, notes that William Frith was awarded an O.B.E. for valuable services as Chief Examination Officer to Tyne Ports since outbreak of war. Cdr R F Scott, RN, of Antarctic fame, qualified as a Master in the Merchant Service, 18 Jul 1901, at London, being appointed in command of the "Discovery," for the Antartic Expedition in 1901. Later died from exposure in Antarctic Regions about 29 June 1912, when he commanded the Antarctic Expedition "Terra Nova". Similarly Lt M Barne, also qualified as a Master 18 Jul 1901, having been appointed as Chief Officer of the "Discovery," for the Antartic Expedition in 1901, and Lt CWR Royds, RN, qualified 27 Jul 1901, for the same Expedition. And 10 years later Henry Robertson Bowers, who served in the R.I.M., and died from exposure in the Antarctic regions about 29 Mar 1912 when serving as 4th Mate on "Nerra Nova," O.N. 89090, when with Capt. Scott (above). BT-124-23-0-1 seems to include a lot of replacement certificates to Merchant Service masters, in addition to the award of certificates to RN and RIM officers, but from the notations of replacement of previous certificates, noted as PN, which usually accompany the replacement of a current certificate, the certificates for some qualified RN officers are noted in other pieces of BT 124.....but have yet to follow them up. And then there are the one or two members of the rogues gallery, whose exploits are mentioned. Paul

Trying to identify which Captain Shackford was sailing the Steamship Moneka from New York to Charleston. I have found a lot of articles in the Charleston Daily News and New York Times in the timeframe from around October 1867 to April 1868 listing a Shackford as captain but they only are in the format: Steamship Moneka, Shackford, New York, 62 hours, Mdze Have done other searches to see if perhaps there is a first name mentioned but no such luck. Appreciate any help you can offer! Joanne Shackford Parkes http://shackfordgenealogy.weebly.com/shackford-blog.html http://www.facebook.com/ShackfordGenealogy

Hi Michael, There was long ago a place called Trepton, a small settlement near the coast at Warkworth, Northumberland, in the manor of "Roubirie", but both names have evidently long since been defunct - I don't think therefore it could be here.  Alternatively, there is Treptow, now Trzebiatow, Poland, on the river Rega on the Baltic coast, apparently then manufacturing stockings and woollen goods.  This is mentioned in the late 18th-century newspapers in connection with shipping, so "Trepton" may be a misprint. Take your pick! Regards, Peter Klein ________________________________ From: MICHAEL MITCHESON <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013, 17:23 Subject: [MAR] Collier, Brigs of 1750s It is reported in the 18th Century newspapers that my G.G.Great Grandfather, Master of  Brig  Providence and Mary arrived at London from Trepton under Simmons on 13 July 1778.  Can anyone inform me where Trepton is or what it is now named.   Thanks  Michael ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is reported in the 18th Century newspapers that my G.G.Great Grandfather, Master of  Brig  Providence and Mary arrived at London from Trepton under Simmons on 13 July 1778.  Can anyone inform me where Trepton is or what it is now named.   Thanks  Michael

Hello Michael,   I think Peter has nailed it for you as a Baltic port. For corroboration, see an "Edwards Simons" paying Oresundstolden on 4 June 1878 going in from London for Stettin and again on 25 June 1778, exiting from Colberg for London.   Here's the link to the abstract and you can also navigate to the actual image from that page: http://dietrich.soundtoll.nl/public/names.php?id=193473   Regards, Adi >________________________________ >From: Peter Klein <[email protected]> >To: MICHAEL MITCHESON <[email protected]>; "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 1:54:53 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Collier, Brigs of 1750s > > >Hi Michael, > >There was long ago a place called Trepton, a small settlement near the coast at Warkworth, Northumberland, in the manor of "Roubirie", but both names have evidently long since been defunct - I don't think therefore it could be here.  Alternatively, there is Treptow, now Trzebiatow, Poland, on the river Rega on the Baltic coast, apparently then manufacturing stockings and woollen goods.  This is mentioned in the late 18th-century newspapers in connection with shipping, so "Trepton" may be a misprint. > >Take your pick! > >Regards, > >Peter Klein > > >________________________________ >From: MICHAEL MITCHESON <[email protected]> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013, 17:23 >Subject: [MAR] Collier, Brigs of 1750s > > >It is reported in the 18th Century newspapers that my G.G.Great Grandfather, Master of  Brig  Providence and Mary arrived at London from Trepton under Simmons on 13 July 1778.  Can anyone inform me where Trepton is or what it is now named. >  >Thanks  Michael > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Thank you Paul, I expect That if Lucy did buy an annuity iy would have made life a lot easier. also bu 1911 the 2 children sill at home were both working and would have been able to contribute to the house hold finances. The eldest child appears to be in the RN so maybe he contributed as well. Once again thank you for your help take care Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler Hi Liz When a man died whilst serving in the Navy I have a feeling that it wasn't until the carnage of WWI that their widows began to receive pensions, which was sparked by the many thousands of wives and families who suddenly found themselves destitute, and that until this date the naval widow would normally only receive a gratuity equal to one year's basic pay. So I would guess that would be something over £600, plus anything that might have been raised on board his ship through the sale of his effects ie his uniform etc., which, since it was an auction, could sometimes produce quite a bit of money, items often being put back in for sale again,suitable personal effects being returned to his wife ! The monies paid usually being deducted from the ledger over a period of time. I gather that widows were usually advised to buy an annuity with the lump sum with a view to maximising their income and ensuring that the money wasn't frittered away, but I would suppose the amount paid out would depend on her age, and life expectancy etc., which might explain why she would appear not to have needed to work ? Regards Paul On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:06:02 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Thank you for the additional information. I had no idea that the rates of >pay were so different and it seems as though Archer was earning a good >wage. >Would his wife Lucy have recieved a pension after his death? I ask this as >on both the 1901 and 1911 census she does not show an occupation. > >The article about Ships Carpenters I found very interesting. They had so >much to do. I was especially fascinated with the section about the keys. > >Thank you very much for your information and help > >Take care > >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi Liz > >Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the >following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw >a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : > >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html > >He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the >following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, >which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the >19th Century : > >http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER > >and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men >involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety >thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have >done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing >from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and >steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although >it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, >following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and >much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often >being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior >officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to >Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out >with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, >and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the >fleet!. > >So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and >composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the >Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to >Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who >had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, >often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch >replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time >your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, >slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we >still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when >we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that >ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi Paul, >>Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is >>a >>Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >>I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >>shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 >>at >>the age of 39. >>Thanks once again >>Liz >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler >> >> >>Hi all >> >>The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >>in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >>she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >>Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >>which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >>spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >>summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >>would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >>would be put into reserve at her Home Port. >> >>The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >>annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >>already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >>reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >>about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >>and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >>British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >>ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >>vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >>coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >>weeks at sea. >> >>I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >>commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >>noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : >> >>7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >>1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >>26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >>the Diamond Jubilee. >>1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >>Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) >> >>The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >>libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >>column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >>movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >>Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >>headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >>but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >>etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >>ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. >> >>Regards >> >>Paul >> >>On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >>wrote: >> >>> >>>Hi again >>> >>>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>>"Mobilization of >>> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>>Loch) >>>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post >>>of >>>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit >>>of >>>the >>>smugglers". >>>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >>> >>>Clare >>>Oxford#UK >>> >>> >>>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >>> >>>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >>> >>>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>>Carpenters Mate. >>> >>>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>>can find out more about his service. >>> >>>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>Liz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >>http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Trying to find a crew member (Henry William Stuart) of the above. He is on the passenger list(seaman) of the Aquitania (dept: 23rd Aug 1947 from Southampton to Halifax, NS) as one of 17 crew enroute for the SS Morgenster. Any leads that you can point me too would be appreciated. Thanks Lynda

Hi Liz When a man died whilst serving in the Navy I have a feeling that it wasn't until the carnage of WWI that their widows began to receive pensions, which was sparked by the many thousands of wives and families who suddenly found themselves destitute, and that until this date the naval widow would normally only receive a gratuity equal to one year's basic pay. So I would guess that would be something over £600, plus anything that might have been raised on board his ship through the sale of his effects ie his uniform etc., which, since it was an auction, could sometimes produce quite a bit of money, items often being put back in for sale again,suitable personal effects being returned to his wife ! The monies paid usually being deducted from the ledger over a period of time. I gather that widows were usually advised to buy an annuity with the lump sum with a view to maximising their income and ensuring that the money wasn't frittered away, but I would suppose the amount paid out would depend on her age, and life expectancy etc., which might explain why she would appear not to have needed to work ? Regards Paul On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:06:02 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Thank you for the additional information. I had no idea that the rates of >pay were so different and it seems as though Archer was earning a good wage. >Would his wife Lucy have recieved a pension after his death? I ask this as >on both the 1901 and 1911 census she does not show an occupation. > >The article about Ships Carpenters I found very interesting. They had so >much to do. I was especially fascinated with the section about the keys. > >Thank you very much for your information and help > >Take care > >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi Liz > >Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the >following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw >a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : > >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html > >He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the >following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, >which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the >19th Century : > >http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER > >and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men >involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety >thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have >done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing >from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and >steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although >it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, >following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and >much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often >being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior >officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to >Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out >with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, >and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the >fleet!. > >So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and >composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the >Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to >Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who >had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, >often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch >replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time >your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, >slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we >still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when >we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that >ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi Paul, >>Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is a >>Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >>I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >>shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 >>at >>the age of 39. >>Thanks once again >>Liz >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler >> >> >>Hi all >> >>The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >>in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >>she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >>Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >>which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >>spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >>summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >>would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >>would be put into reserve at her Home Port. >> >>The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >>annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >>already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >>reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >>about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >>and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >>British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >>ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >>vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >>coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >>weeks at sea. >> >>I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >>commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >>noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : >> >>7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >>1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >>26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >>the Diamond Jubilee. >>1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >>Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) >> >>The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >>libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >>column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >>movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >>Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >>headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >>but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >>etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >>ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. >> >>Regards >> >>Paul >> >>On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >>wrote: >> >>> >>>Hi again >>> >>>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>>"Mobilization of >>> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>>Loch) >>>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post >>>of >>>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit >>>of >>>the >>>smugglers". >>>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >>> >>>Clare >>>Oxford#UK >>> >>> >>>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >>> >>>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >>> >>>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>>Carpenters Mate. >>> >>>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>>can find out more about his service. >>> >>>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>Liz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >>http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html