Mick: to state the BO, is it possible your pen slipped, and she was bought in 1799.?? Graham On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Mick O Rourke < [email protected]> wrote: > Hi Christine > Lloyds Registers say Fletcher bought Barwell in 1899. > She had her last survey in 1800, her master was J. Toole, the details > remain > unchanged up to 1807 and she is not listed after that. This suggests to me > that she was off the register soon after 1800, at this time she was 19 > years > old and in poor condition, could she have lasted another 11 years ?. > What is your source for the 1811 incident ? . > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John & Christine Hughes" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 5:32 PM > Subject: [MAR] The Barwell > > > Hello > > I wonder if anyone could help please? I have been helping an elderly friend > compile his family history and in doing so have established that his > relative Richard Haycocks was sent for transportation to Port Jackson, > Sydney in 1798. He was on board The Barwell which was chartered by the East > India Company. > > We have decided at the present time to try and discover more about The > Barwell. We have discovered that after the convict run she returned to the > cargo runs that she had done before. She was sold in 1804 to Fletcher & Co. > In 1811 she was to sail to Lisbon, Portugal and after unloading it is > reported that she was run away with by her Captain - John Poole. > > We have two questions that we are trying to find the answer to but keep > hitting a brick wall, the questions are as follows:- > > 1 What happend to The Barwell, where did she end up. Was she resold, > scrapped or shipwrecked? > > 2 Any information on Captain John Poole what happend to him? > > In the course of our research we have made contact with another researcher > in Australia who like us was looking for an image of The Barwell as he too > had found that a relative had sailed on her. > > We have exchanged information and at present is trying to track down an > image of The Barwell as we speak. We have tried every resource possible in > trying to establish information on The Barwell, including LLoyds Register > where she is registered until 1807 then she disappears. > > We would appreciate any suggestions or information that anybody could give > us - Thank You. > > Thanks > Christine Hughes > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Christine Lloyds Registers say Fletcher bought Barwell in 1899. She had her last survey in 1800, her master was J. Toole, the details remain unchanged up to 1807 and she is not listed after that. This suggests to me that she was off the register soon after 1800, at this time she was 19 years old and in poor condition, could she have lasted another 11 years ?. What is your source for the 1811 incident ? . ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Christine Hughes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2013 5:32 PM Subject: [MAR] The Barwell Hello I wonder if anyone could help please? I have been helping an elderly friend compile his family history and in doing so have established that his relative Richard Haycocks was sent for transportation to Port Jackson, Sydney in 1798. He was on board The Barwell which was chartered by the East India Company. We have decided at the present time to try and discover more about The Barwell. We have discovered that after the convict run she returned to the cargo runs that she had done before. She was sold in 1804 to Fletcher & Co. In 1811 she was to sail to Lisbon, Portugal and after unloading it is reported that she was run away with by her Captain - John Poole. We have two questions that we are trying to find the answer to but keep hitting a brick wall, the questions are as follows:- 1 What happend to The Barwell, where did she end up. Was she resold, scrapped or shipwrecked? 2 Any information on Captain John Poole what happend to him? In the course of our research we have made contact with another researcher in Australia who like us was looking for an image of The Barwell as he too had found that a relative had sailed on her. We have exchanged information and at present is trying to track down an image of The Barwell as we speak. We have tried every resource possible in trying to establish information on The Barwell, including LLoyds Register where she is registered until 1807 then she disappears. We would appreciate any suggestions or information that anybody could give us - Thank You. Thanks Christine Hughes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

OK, I'm puzzled. I should probably look into this more before posting but everyone on this list is so knowledgable! I'm back to Daniel Quinn. Enlisted on board HMS Fair Rosamond as a Boy in 1825. With Lauretta Harris's I've managed to find quite a lot of his service but there are gaps because he is known to have used at least one alias. On FindMyPast today I found a ticket for him which I thought meant he had been in the merchant navy, but it mentions HMS Acorn and was actually issued aboard HMS Acorn while it was stationed on the River Uruguay (26th August 1846). I know that Continuous Service didn't start till around 1853. Were the two services interchangeable or was this just another way of recording sailors? I also can't make out the word in the very last 'Remarks' column. It looks like 'Received', but received what? There are also some hieroglyphics in his last entry on the record in 1848. It looks like 'Paid off 8/11/ ??' but this doesn't tie up with other records (from memory, the ship's muster book), which had him being discharged from HSM Acorn on 26th March 1848. Anyone care to have a stab at it if I were to forward it by e-mail? I can read the rest of it. Interestingly, the fact that he is usually resident in Lambeth when not working gives me a clue as to where and when he died! Thanks in advance. Jo

Greetings. Generally he was a waiter, in this case specifically to the Captain, to whoom he cared for. He would supervise the other waiters, dress standards, smartness, clean appearance, was generally stood behind the Captain at meal times to regulate the meals, arrival times, wine or spirits to be ready as needed. He would clean and press the Captains uniform, laying out ahead of time, to be smart and ready as needed, try not to spill the meals or wines no matter how rough the seas, the Captain might not like it. Peter in Canada, once Captains steward on a Swedish ship, but seasick not helping!! > On Nov 6, 2013, at 1:35 AM, Don Taig <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Listers, > > Just an update for those who have provided previous assistance- I have managed to track down George Sutton on the Norfolk ON 11920 and am in the process of getting the crew agreements and so on I have been seeking. > Thank you. > > On a general query, can anyone help either with a general understanding, or point me in the way of an appropriate source for what the duties of a Captain's Steward would have been in the early 1870's for a merchant seaman? > > Your assistance as usual will be wonderful. > > Thanks, > > Don > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello   I wonder if anyone could help please?  I have been helping an elderly friend compile his family history and in doing so have established that his relative Richard Haycocks was sent for transportation to Port Jackson, Sydney in 1798.  He was on board The Barwell which was chartered by the East India Company.   We have decided at the present time to try and discover more about The Barwell.  We have discovered that after the convict run she returned to the cargo runs that she had done before.  She was sold in 1804 to Fletcher & Co.  In 1811 she was to sail to Lisbon, Portugal and after unloading it is reported that she was run away with by her Captain - John Poole.   We have two questions that we are trying to find the answer to but keep hitting a brick wall, the questions are as follows:-   1       What happend to The Barwell, where did she end up. Was she resold, scrapped or shipwrecked?    2       Any information on Captain John Poole what happend to him?   In the course of our research we have made contact with another researcher in Australia who like us was looking for an image of The Barwell as he too had found that a relative had sailed on her.   We have exchanged information and at present is trying to track down an image of The Barwell as we speak.  We have tried every resource possible in trying to establish information on The Barwell, including LLoyds Register where she is registered until 1807 then she disappears.   We would appreciate any suggestions or information that anybody could give us - Thank You.   Thanks Christine Hughes

Hi Listers, Just an update for those who have provided previous assistance- I have managed to track down George Sutton on the Norfolk ON 11920 and am in the process of getting the crew agreements and so on I have been seeking. Thank you. On a general query, can anyone help either with a general understanding, or point me in the way of an appropriate source for what the duties of a Captain's Steward would have been in the early 1870's for a merchant seaman? Your assistance as usual will be wonderful. Thanks, Don

Dear Mick, Following this link http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k50675j you will find a very interesting nautical glossary : all people working on old sailing vessels must have it ! Good luck Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Mick O Rourke Envoyé : samedi 2 novembre 2013 17:02 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] French Privateers Thank you Gildas My vessel is not on the list but I have emailed the owner. I am researching shipwrecks in my locality, particularly those carrying cannons. A number of cannons and balls were found in the area over the years. In time I would like to match artifacts with vessels. Mick O'Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a 4th great grandfather named Richard Cornish. A Richard Cornish was Capt/Master of the ship Helen when this account of piracy happened in 1820... another source I saw said Richard Cornish was also part owner of the ship Helen, a brig from Dartmouth. I am trying to figure out if this Richard Cornish could be mine or related to me. The Capt of the pirate ship was Christopher Delano. My Richard Cornish married Ann Morgan who was supposed born in Wales. They had my GGG Grandmother, Mary Ann Cornish who was born abt 1817 in North Shields, Northumberland, England. I don't know if she had siblings. But, Richard Cornish must have died young. On 25 May 1821 Ann Cornish married John Nutman (also a Mariner) at St. Hilda in South Shields England http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/Transcriptions/DUR/SSH1813.html Ann and John had at least one daughter, Elizabeth Butler Nutman, b. 1825, who later married William Frederick Stinson a Mariner from Bath, Maine. After William, a first mate, drowned at sea, Elizabeth married his brother James Huston Stinson. The Stinson's mother was a Hopestill Delano. So weird how all these family names seem to connect somewhere and are all Mariners in UK and America. Mary Ann Cornish married my 3rd GGF William James Reed who was also a Master Mariner. They had my 2nd great grandfather William John Reed (born in Liverpoool) and was also master mariner. His brother was Captain Richard Cornish Reed (born 1845 in Liverpool) and his obituary mentions sailing with his Uncle from Bath Maine, James Huston Stinson. Mary Ann Cornish Reed and Elizabeth Butler Nutman Stinson, the 1/2 sisters, both died in Andover, Massachusetts USA in the late 1800s. Any info or advice about how to research further, much appreciated! Sources of info: http://books.google.com/books?id=11pKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=Richard+Cornish+Ship+Helen+delano&source=bl&ots=lgigmKk3n5&sig=2ggrjomwcwb__W2iJbpKQizaF9s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jft3UtrmDMTXiAKN4oDgCg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Cornish%20Ship%20Helen%20delano&f=false This mentions the Captain's son who was also onboard, George Cornish. http://books.google.com/books?id=us8NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=Richard+Cornish+Ship+Helen+delano&source=bl&ots=oBrwK6z7Ov&sig=1HY3ZGjTOwTPFfUkDq0iI-I-UmQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jft3UtrmDMTXiAKN4oDgCg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Richard%20Cornish%20Ship%20Helen%20delano&f=false Source: http://www.americanancestors.org/wg-vol-7-no-19/ Favorite – and Black Sheep – Ancestors By Sanford R. Delano, Ipswich, Massachusetts The Delano family has many famous relatives including four presidents: Ulysses S. Grant, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush. In addition to these prestigious individuals, our family has some infamous relatives as well. One family black sheep is Christopher Delano born in 1778 in Friendship, Maine the second son of Alpheus Delano who received a pension for his service during the American Revolution. The Genealogy History and Alliances of the American House of Delano, 1621 to 1899 states only that he "died in England". In reality he was hanged by the British for piracy. As captain of the brig William from Liverpool, he took his men on board the brig Helen, locked the crew below decks and transferred the cargo onto the William. They then scuttled the Helen with its crew still on board. Unfortunately for Delano and his men, the Helen didn't sink but was washed up on the Spanish coast, and the crew rescued. In the meantime the William had called at Malta, sold some of the Helen’s cargo, and sailed for Turkey. When news of the Helen’s demise arrived at Malta from Spain, the Royal Navy sent two of the Helen's crew on a ship to Turkey, where they found the William and identified Captain Delano and his crew as the pirates. They were brought back to Malta for trial, found guilty, and sentenced to death. Two of them, John Curtis and Reuben Marshall, were pardoned the night before they were to be executed. The William was painted black brought into Grand Harbour at Malta. Christopher Delano, John Lewis, John Webb, and Benjamin Wilcock were hanged from the yardarms of the ship. Their bodies were later taken down and put in iron cages and hung from gibbetts at the entrance to Grand Harbour as a warning to others.

Thank you Nivard for your help. If William Roskell was registered, would there be a local Lacanshire registration Record? With the Channel Pilot is the Sea and Lead a further qaulification for the job? Regards Bob I'Anson Hamilton NZ --

Hello Mick, I remember a report on French TV about these balls: they were saying British had very early successfully mold balls of the same diameter so they have not to look for the right ones each time. So British ships were able to shoot faster than Continental Navy. They discovered that from a wreck they found off Jersey or Guernsey: the ball diameter ranges were very narrow. At that time I was looking for information on the shooting range: ships were fighting very closely Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Mick O Rourke Envoyé : samedi 2 novembre 2013 17:02 À : [email protected] Objet : Re: [MAR] French Privateers Thank you Gildas My vessel is not on the list but I have emailed the owner. I am researching shipwrecks in my locality, particularly those carrying cannons. A number of cannons and balls were found in the area over the years. In time I would like to match artifacts with vessels. Mick O'Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Gildas My vessel is not on the list but I have emailed the owner. I am researching shipwrecks in my locality, particularly those carrying cannons. A number of cannons and balls were found in the area over the years. In time I would like to match artifacts with vessels. Mick O'Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.com

Hi Paul, Thank you for your thoughts about Harold George Wheeler. I have found an Army Medal card for Harol G Wheeler but it only gives his name , rank and number so not much help there either and I have not found any enlistment papers either so they may have been in the ones that were destroyed. Thank you once again Regards Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Wheeler Boys Hi Liz >I guess it is back to the drawing board for Harold In which case I think it'll is back to the drawing board for both the Medals and for the Service record for Harold George Wheeler, i.e. the Service Number of J19936 for the person you found who received the medals was the same for the person whose service details I found, which was why I was certain that he was your man, the letter J indicating that he had served either as a Seaman or Signalman in the Royal Navy, but if the birth date and place of birth are wrong for this record then I think it suggests you will need to search again for both medal and service records. When enlisting he may have had to join the Army, since by the time the war started the RN, according to many applicants, often appears to have enough men, but the Army never had enough men, even after conscription was introduced, unfortunately however, many of the Army records were destroyed in a bombing raid in 1940, so a service record may not have survived and the medal record may be all that you will find ? Should you wish to search further following that line, then I believe that the Army records are held by ancestry.co.uk. ; see the following web page for the National Archives help guide for Army personnel : <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/britisharmysoldierafter1913.htm> which includes a link to the Ancestry site. Regards Paul On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 07:28:01 +1100, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Thank you very much for the information > >I looked at The National Archives site you sent and I am pretty sure that >Archibald is mine . > > I don't think that Harold is.I have Harold being born in Colchester Dec q >1894 whereas the Harold on the Archives site has a birth date of 11th >March >1896.The medal details I found had no birth date or place.so I was hoping >that it was my Harold. > >As their father was in the Navy I thought that it was possible that both >his >sons had also persued that career. >I guess it is back to the drawing board for Harold > >Thanks once again for you great help > >Liz Maxwell >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 3:30 AM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Wheeler Boys > > >Liz > >His location is described as being "Overseas Royal Navy," I would >therefore suggest that Misc. Locations is where most of the non-UK >census forms were filed, ie those for personnel entitled to be >included in the census, but are serving abroad, all the UK census >forms either being filed with each county or perhaps island etc. > >Paul > >On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:00:15 +1100, "liz and john" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi All, >> >>After the that I recieved from this list about Archer Wheeler. I am hoping >>that someone can help me with his 2 sons. >> >>Archibald John Wheeler was born 1890 Medway Kent >>On the 1911 census I found Archibald J Wheeler age 20 born Gillingham, >>Kent >>on the List of Officers,Crew and Royal Marineson Board at midnight on >>Sunday ,April 2nd 1911 Misc. Locations >>I also found on the UK,Naval Medal and Awards Roll >> Name Archibald J Wheeler. >> Medal or Award Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal >> Service Year 1914-1920 >> Service Location Europe >> Campaigne or >> Service World War 1 >> Service No. 234599 >> >> >> >>Harold George Wheeler was born Colchester Essex >>On the 1911 census he age 16 and is living at home with his mother Lucy >>and >>sister Daisy >>I found a UK, Naval Medal and Awards Roll >> Name Harold G Wheeler >> Medal or Award Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal >> Service Year 1914-1920 >> Service Location Europe >> Campaigne or >> Service Worl War 1 >> Service No. J19936 >> >> >>I Have tried looking on The National Archives site for service records but >>was unable to find them. I am hoping that someone can point me in the >>right >>direction to "prove' that these are my Archibald and Harold. Also what >>does >>Misc. Locations mean? >> >>Regards >> >>Liz Maxwell >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Peter Really appreciate yr response Peter - thank you. Apologies for the ON error (yet another senior moment I'm afraid). I located the entry in the 1883/84 LRS which you referred to but frustratingly I can't access the 1881/82 1882/83, 1884/85 & 1885/86 LR editions on line - might you have a link for these please? As to the MNL - there are certainly entries for years 1882, 1883 and 1885 - in the case of 1882 the POR is Shanghai / Owner William Wheelock - for 1883 the Owner is listed as John Sharp with the same POR and repeated for 1885. She is described as a brig in all 3 entries with the same tonnage. The 1880 MNL entry has John G Punch as Owner with POR as Sydney. Based upon what I have been able to establish thus far Argos was sold to a Llanelly owner somewhere around 1873/74 and arrived in Sydney, NSW, via South Africa in mid 1875 where she seems to have been sold and bought by one John Punch. There are a number of references to the vessel in Trove including voyages to Shanghai but nothing, as you say, to cast light upon the circumstances of her demise. Brgds William email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Peter Klein Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013 9:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MAR] Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 Hello  William, Your Argos ON puzzled me for a while, but I think this ought to read 59789?  I am unable to pick her up in the 1883 MNL at all, but Lloyd's Registers might help explain her disappearance.  Argos certainly appears in the CLIP Crew List entry for 59789, but her last surviving papers appear to date from around 1880.  In LR for 1881/82 she was returned as a brig owned by J. BIngle of Sydney, but by the 1883/84 edition she appears to have been re-rigged as a barque, and was then owned by J. Sharp and G. Lewis, her home port still being Sydney.  In the 1885/86 edition however the end of her entry has been annotated as "wrecked".  I assume this happened some time during 1885, so perhaps you might be able to find something out about the circumstances. I did have a look on he Trove newspaper website, but have not come up with anything that explains this.  Perhaps you may have better luck. Best regards. Peter Klein ________________________________ From: William Davies <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013, 6:29 Subject: [MAR] Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 Good Day Re: Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 - YOB: 1870 - POB: PEI I'm attempting to discover the fate of the Brig "Argos" which was acquired by William R Wheelock  (Shanghai Tug & Lighter Co) and who changed her registry from that of Sydney, NSW, to Shanghai sometime during 1881/82. As per the 1883 MNL listing the Owner was recorded as one John Sharp of Shanghai but by 1888 she no longer appears. The National Archive's  BT 368 contains files of the Shanghai Registry covering the period  1875 to 1919 but whilst various vessels are listed up to and including 1880 no vessels are recorded  during in the period 1880 to 1919. Can anyone shed any light as to why there should be such a gap? Thanks Rgds  William Davies email: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, You could maybe find something on this site http://www.jjsalein.com/ It's specialized for French privateers and they have an English version. Hoping it will help you Gildas -----Message d'origine----- De : [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] De la part de Mick O Rourke Envoyé : samedi 2 novembre 2013 11:13 À : [email protected] Objet : [MAR] French Privateers Could any one tell me where I could find information on French Privateers circa 1780s. One of theirs foundered on my patch in 1782, Salvediction, of 18 guns, nine and 12 pounders . Mick O'Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.ie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Could I suggest that a browse of the following might give you an outline regarding how they were organised : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer#France Some years ago I was in contact with a local French naval historian who had privateer captains as relatives, who, ISTR, had spent a lot of their time in the West Indies, and he had done quite a bit of research on the subject, with one of his relatives having been mentioned in William James' Naval History of GB, which he found on my website, but in our rather brief messages, neither being able to speak the other's language, and both probably using too many naval or colloquial terms etc. I got the feeling that whilst the captain or master needed the usual Letter of Marque, these escapades were invariably local affairs, and unless anything has been published regarding your vessel then you probably need to search out a local historian or someone familiar with that genre. I also put something on-line regarding the French Privateer, Robert Surcouf, but this was probably from 20+ years later and things had probably changed radically and politically by then ? http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval_History_Laughton/Surcouf.html Paul On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 10:12:56 -0000, "Mick O Rourke" <[email protected]> wrote: >Could any one tell me where I could find information on French Privateers >circa 1780s. >One of theirs foundered on my patch in 1782, Salvediction, of 18 guns, nine >and 12 pounders . > >Mick O'Rourke > >www.irishshipwrecks.ie > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Could any one tell me where I could find information on French Privateers circa 1780s. One of theirs foundered on my patch in 1782, Salvediction, of 18 guns, nine and 12 pounders . Mick O'Rourke www.irishshipwrecks.ie

Good Day Re: Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 - YOB: 1870 - POB: PEI I'm attempting to discover the fate of the Brig "Argos" which was acquired by William R Wheelock (Shanghai Tug & Lighter Co) and who changed her registry from that of Sydney, NSW, to Shanghai sometime during 1881/82. As per the 1883 MNL listing the Owner was recorded as one John Sharp of Shanghai but by 1888 she no longer appears. The National Archive's BT 368 contains files of the Shanghai Registry covering the period 1875 to 1919 but whilst various vessels are listed up to and including 1880 no vessels are recorded during in the period 1880 to 1919. Can anyone shed any light as to why there should be such a gap? Thanks Rgds William Davies email: [email protected]

Hello  William, Your Argos ON puzzled me for a while, but I think this ought to read 59789?  I am unable to pick her up in the 1883 MNL at all, but Lloyd's Registers might help explain her disappearance.  Argos certainly appears in the CLIP Crew List entry for 59789, but her last surviving papers appear to date from around 1880.  In LR for 1881/82 she was returned as a brig owned by J. BIngle of Sydney, but by the 1883/84 edition she appears to have been re-rigged as a barque, and was then owned by J. Sharp and G. Lewis, her home port still being Sydney.  In the 1885/86 edition however the end of her entry has been annotated as "wrecked".  I assume this happened some time during 1885, so perhaps you might be able to find something out about the circumstances. I did have a look on he Trove newspaper website, but have not come up with anything that explains this.  Perhaps you may have better luck. Best regards. Peter Klein ________________________________ From: William Davies <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013, 6:29 Subject: [MAR] Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 Good Day Re: Brig "Argos" ON: 59758 - YOB: 1870 - POB: PEI I'm attempting to discover the fate of the Brig "Argos" which was acquired by William R Wheelock  (Shanghai Tug & Lighter Co) and who changed her registry from that of Sydney, NSW, to Shanghai sometime during 1881/82. As per the 1883 MNL listing the Owner was recorded as one John Sharp of Shanghai but by 1888 she no longer appears. The National Archive's  BT 368 contains files of the Shanghai Registry covering the period  1875 to 1919 but whilst various vessels are listed up to and including 1880 no vessels are recorded  during in the period 1880 to 1919. Can anyone shed any light as to why there should be such a gap? Thanks Rgds  William Davies email: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Paul, Thank you very much for the information I looked at The National Archives site you sent and I am pretty sure that Archibald is mine . I don't think that Harold is.I have Harold being born in Colchester Dec q 1894 whereas the Harold on the Archives site has a birth date of 11th March 1896.The medal details I found had no birth date or place.so I was hoping that it was my Harold. As their father was in the Navy I thought that it was possible that both his sons had also persued that career. I guess it is back to the drawing board for Harold Thanks once again for you great help Liz Maxwell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 3:30 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Wheeler Boys Liz His location is described as being "Overseas Royal Navy," I would therefore suggest that Misc. Locations is where most of the non-UK census forms were filed, ie those for personnel entitled to be included in the census, but are serving abroad, all the UK census forms either being filed with each county or perhaps island etc. Paul On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 19:00:15 +1100, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi All, > >After the that I recieved from this list about Archer Wheeler. I am hoping >that someone can help me with his 2 sons. > >Archibald John Wheeler was born 1890 Medway Kent >On the 1911 census I found Archibald J Wheeler age 20 born Gillingham, Kent >on the List of Officers,Crew and Royal Marineson Board at midnight on >Sunday ,April 2nd 1911 Misc. Locations >I also found on the UK,Naval Medal and Awards Roll > Name Archibald J Wheeler. > Medal or Award Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal > Service Year 1914-1920 > Service Location Europe > Campaigne or > Service World War 1 > Service No. 234599 > > > >Harold George Wheeler was born Colchester Essex >On the 1911 census he age 16 and is living at home with his mother Lucy and >sister Daisy >I found a UK, Naval Medal and Awards Roll > Name Harold G Wheeler > Medal or Award Star, Victory Medal, British War Medal > Service Year 1914-1920 > Service Location Europe > Campaigne or > Service Worl War 1 > Service No. J19936 > > >I Have tried looking on The National Archives site for service records but >was unable to find them. I am hoping that someone can point me in the right >direction to "prove' that these are my Archibald and Harold. Also what does >Misc. Locations mean? > >Regards > >Liz Maxwell > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Graham I see that Alfred was included on page 458j of the Navy List for July 1915, as a Temporary Skipper, RNR, per page 518p, with a seniority of 6 May 1915. If you want to look I think I downloaded the book from the Way-Back Machine some years ago, having been made available by the National Library of Scotland. ISTR that they hold a lot of Navy Lists for the 19th Century and for both World Wars. Unfortunately, whilst current copies of the Navy Lists continued to list the ships in the RN, along with their officers, during the early months of the war, after a while this was discontinued until the end of the War on the grounds of security, and it would appear that the July 1915 edition did not list ships or their officers, although the Navy List continued to maintain relatively up to date lists of officers. As you've implied it is often difficult to track down trawlers, since they were used in the North Atlantic right round to the Bosphorus, and were involved in the Gallipoli and all that, and whilst some seemed to retain their names others were given numbers. But, on the off-chance whilst searching through the National Archives Catalogue : http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/ found the following which might be for your Biance ? Admiralty, and Ministry of Defence, Navy Department: Ships' Logs. BIANCA. Collection: Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies Date range: 06 March 1916 - 05 August 1916 Reference: ADM 53/35334 I've not looked any further, so you can have the pleasure of checking to see if there are more logs and how many days you need to book to do your research at Kew to see what she got up to during the war ;-) There are also later WWI Navy Lists, so you may be able to work out when he returned to normal fishing, but they are quite large books so hope your broadband is in fine fettle ;-) BTW, the Navy Lists are mostly word searchable, unless the print quality declines. Regards Paul On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 22:11:54 +0000, Graham Read <[email protected]> wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: Graham Read <[email protected]> >Date: Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:03 PM >Subject: HMT Bianca >To: [email protected] > > >My mother-in-law's father, Alfred J Kersey was a trawler skipper in >peacetime, and during WW1 was supposed to have command of 'HMS Bianca'. >Personally I think HMT more likely. He was RNR. >I have some details of the civilian life of the Bianca as a Hull or Grimsby >trawler but nothing about her wartime [WW1] service beyond that she was >requisitioned as a minesweeper in 1914. > It is clear that this was a wartime association between AJK and Bianca >since he was in Milford Haven before and after WW1. He died at sea in 1929 >so wasn't involved in the 1941 loss. > >If SKP has got any ideas on where to chase for details of the WW1 service, >or of a picture, I would be most grateful. > >Graham > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html