I have left the earlier messages intact to permit a reader to follow the discussion. Dear Dale and Lists: My message was to suggest the connections in order to get a discussion going. I found none in writing by a recognized source. :-) I will give you the Fuller marriage as more - questionable..but one James was b. 27 Feb 1704 and there doesn't seem to be another candidate other than for Hannah b. 2 Feb 1708, per my examination of William T. Davis's entries in 'Genealogical Register of Plymouth Families' p.151. He cites Hannah, dau. of John and Joanna (Shove) Howland b. 1708. I feel most-comfortable with my suggestion that this Hannah was the wife of John Allen per her havin named a child Shove. You are right in that Bowman did not assign Hannah to any parents at the time of her marriage. That was an incorrect attribution on my part. In fact, I believe Bowman only transcribed town records, he did not make genealogies out of the information, so I don't think that is a drawback to my proposition. 'Gene Dale H. Cook wrote: > At 11:12 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, Eugene Hubbard wrote: > >> One Hannah Howland married James Fuller (banns 21 Nov 1731 in the >> town of Barnstable) (see Dunkle's transcription of 'Early Vital >> Records of Barnstable, Dukes, & Nantucket Counties (from the Gustavus >> Adolphus Hinckley Collection)', ii:355, 357)). The Vital Records of >> Barnstable published in the Mayflower Descendant (34:18) says she was >> the daughter of John Howland and Joanna Shove. > > > Eugene - > > I don't see any indication of her parents. MD 34:18 has: > > "[p. 335] Persons Published in Order for Marriag by David Crocker Town > Clark 1731 > (I here omit five intentions) > James Fuller & Hannah Howland of ths town N 21 1731" > with no note by Bowman that might indicate her parents. > > The intentions continue on the next page (MD 34:19) including: > > "John Allen of Hingham & Hannah Howland of This Town Nr 12 1732" > > with the marriage entry on the following page (MD 34:20): > > "[p. 357] Persons Married by the Revrd Mr Jonathan Russell 1730 > (I omit a number of 1730, 1731 and 1732 marriages before coming to...) > Decem 28th John Allen Hingham Hannah Howland" > with a note by Bowman indicating that Hingham MA was meant. > >> Hannah's son's name of "Shove" is the clue needed to attribute her to >> the appropriate parents. Hannah's brother George Gill Howland also >> had a son named Shove. I know of no reason why Bowman made the >> connection he did for the Hannah's Fuller marriage, and did not make >> the connection for her Allen marriage. > > > Where in Bowman did you find him attributing John Howland and Joanna > (Shove) Howland as the parents of Hannah (Howland) Fuller? I cannot > find that attribution in MD or in the Bowman Files as published in > "Mayflower Marriages" and "Mayflower Births & Deaths." > > > Dale H. Cook > Member, NEHGS > USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Eugene, et al! I really have no answer for you on your Hannah HOWLAND hunt but do have a bit of info on the Hannah, b. 1708 to John HOWLAND. According to: Franklyn Howland, A Brief Genealogical and Biographical History of Arthur, Henry, and John Howland, and Their Descendants, of the United States and Canada, together with an account of the efforts made in England to learn of their English ancestry, etc (Microfiche of First Edition (1885); Sanford, NC: Microfilming Corp. of America, 1979) in custody of the Memphis Public Library, p. 331. This Hannah was the dau. of John/3 who md/1 Abigail Crocker and md/2 in 1719 Mary Crocker. No mention of a wife Joanna SHOVE. >doesn't seem to be another candidate other than for Hannah b. 2 Feb 1708, >per my examination of William T. Davis's entries in 'Genealogical Register >of Plymouth Families' p.151. He cites Hannah, dau. of John and Joanna >(Shove) Howland b. 1708. Hmmmm.... my copy: William T. Davis, Ancient Landmarks of Plymouth. Part I. Historical Sketch & Titles of Estates. Part II. Genealogical Register of Plymouth Families (Boston: William T. Davis, 1883), Part II, p. 151. Also viewed on-line: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/plyalpgr_h2.html#howland Mentions no wife named SHOVE for him. It doesn't give a name for his 1st wife and says 2nd wife was Mary Crocker. In fact Davis has no John HOWLAND married to any Joanne SHOVE. Also: Leon Clark Hills, History and Genealogy of the Mayflower Planters to Ye Olde Colonie, Two Volumes in One (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc, 1975), p. 164. Only lists wives of Abigail and Mary CROCKER for this John HOWLAND. Anyhow, the published HOWLAND genealogy says this Hannah was "b. 2, 2, 1708" and "d. 1738, unmarried." Soooo according to this genealogy she didn't marry. Nowwwww Davis and Howland genealogy (both very out-dated sources) and MFPlanters are suspect sources at best. It would probably behoove you to check out the Mayflower publications on HOWLAND: White, Elizabeth, John Howland of the Mayflower, Vols. I & II by Picton Press http://www.mayflower.org/book.htm I suspect a good size public library might have it. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* At 01:55 PM 5/22/03 -0400, Eugene Hubbard wrote: >I have left the earlier messages intact to permit a reader >to follow the discussion. > >Dear Dale and Lists: > >My message was to suggest the connections in order to get a >discussion going. I found none in writing by a recognized source. :-) > >I will give you the Fuller marriage as more - >questionable..but one James was b. 27 Feb 1704 and there >doesn't seem to be another candidate other than for Hannah b. 2 Feb 1708, >per my examination of William T. Davis's entries in 'Genealogical Register >of Plymouth Families' p.151. He cites Hannah, dau. of John and Joanna >(Shove) Howland b. 1708. > > I feel most-comfortable with my suggestion that this Hannah was the > wife of John Allen per her havin named a child Shove. > >You are right in that Bowman did not assign Hannah to any parents at the >time of her marriage. That was an incorrect attribution on my part. In >fact, I believe Bowman only transcribed town records, he did not make >genealogies out of the information, so I don't think that is a drawback to >my proposition. > >'Gene > >Dale H. Cook wrote: > > > At 11:12 PM 5/21/2003 -0400, Eugene Hubbard wrote: > > > >> One Hannah Howland married James Fuller (banns 21 Nov >1731 in the > >> town of Barnstable) (see Dunkle's transcription of >'Early Vital > >> Records of Barnstable, Dukes, & Nantucket Counties (from >the Gustavus > >> Adolphus Hinckley Collection)', ii:355, 357)). The >Vital Records of > >> Barnstable published in the Mayflower Descendant (34:18) >says she was > >> the daughter of John Howland and Joanna Shove. > > > > > > Eugene - > > > > I don't see any indication of her parents. MD 34:18 has: > > > > "[p. 335] Persons Published in Order for Marriag by David >Crocker Town > > Clark 1731 > > (I here omit five intentions) > > James Fuller & Hannah Howland of ths town N 21 1731" > > with no note by Bowman that might indicate her parents. > > > > The intentions continue on the next page (MD 34:19) >including: > > > > "John Allen of Hingham & Hannah Howland of This Town Nr >12 1732" > > > > with the marriage entry on the following page (MD 34:20): > > > > "[p. 357] Persons Married by the Revrd Mr Jonathan >Russell 1730 > > (I omit a number of 1730, 1731 and 1732 marriages before >coming to...) > > Decem 28th John Allen Hingham Hannah Howland" > > with a note by Bowman indicating that Hingham MA was meant. > > > >> Hannah's son's name of "Shove" is the clue needed to >attribute her to > >> the appropriate parents. Hannah's brother George Gill >Howland also > >> had a son named Shove. I know of no reason why Bowman >made the > >> connection he did for the Hannah's Fuller marriage, and >did not make > >> the connection for her Allen marriage. > > > > > > Where in Bowman did you find him attributing John Howland >and Joanna > > (Shove) Howland as the parents of Hannah (Howland) >Fuller? I cannot > > find that attribution in MD or in the Bowman Files as >published in > > "Mayflower Marriages" and "Mayflower Births & Deaths." > > > > > > Dale H. Cook > > Member, NEHGS > > USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html > > > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online >genealogy > > records, go to: > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ >=Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear Susan and List: OK, Good discussion... It has prompted me to search the Internet for Joanna Shove. I got a very good documented hit right away. The owner of the information has done a thorough job, althought the proper attribution for the marriage of 2nd John Howland to Joanna Shove should read 2nd edition (not 2nd volume) of Mayflower Increasings by Susan E, Rosier. To quote the paragraph by Roser, found on p.71 of IBID, "10. John HOWLAND^3, b. 30 Sept. 1672, Barnstable <MD 5:75>; MSR 613>, d. 14 Feb. 1737/8, 63rd yr, Barnstable g.s. <MD 45:159 (Memorial Insciptions W. Barnstable Cem.)>; m. 1st, 1704, Barnstable, Joanna SHOVE <White 2:39>, (dau George SHOVE and Hannah (BACON) Walley, b. 28 Sept. 1678, Taunton <Taunton VR 1:387; MD 22:92>, d. betw. 8 Jan. 1715 (bth last ch.) - 18 June 1719 (hus.2nd /Marr.). John m.2nd, 18 June 1719, Barnstable, Mary CROCKER <md 32:152,33:121>, (dau. of Job CROCKER & Hannah TAYLOR), B. 29 June 1681, Barnstable <MD 3:151; Otis 1:215>, d. 10 Sept. 1759, 79th yr, Barnstable g.s. <MQ 45:159 (Memorial Insciptions W. Barnstable Cem.)> (See HOWLAND probate Appendix for will of John Howland.) <See MBD 2:163; MD 5:75 for 4 chil. by 1st wf; see MBD 2:163; MD 5:75,33:121 for 2 chil. by 2nd wf.>" See the following url for the Internet info: http://www.gendex.com/users/rtwgen/mwheeler/d0002/g0000087.html By clicking on any highlighted person, one can go to a family of the person. The numbers in parentheses refer to listed references. I have things right thru daughter Hannah, whose mother was Joanna Shove (whose mg I cited with improper attributions). Acc. to published records, Hannah's husband was James Fuller of whom nothing further. We then have to address why the Hannah, who married John Allen would have named a son Shove, as did George Gill Howland, a stated son of 3rd John Howland and unlisted wife (acc. to William T. Davis.).... 3rd John Howland married (2nd) Mary Crocker. He did not marry Abigail Crocker at all..neither Davis nor Rosier mentions it. Author Franklyn Howland had to have guessed at the name of 3rd John's 1st wife.... One Abigail Crocker married George Gill Howland, mentioned above. She was the dau. of John Crocker and Hannah (???), b. 1706. I propose once again that Hannah (Howland) Allen was the daughter of Joanna Shove and 3rd John Howland, he the son of 2nd John Howland and Mary Lee... 'Gene Hubbard Susan Taylor wrote: > Hi Eugene, et al! > > I really have no answer for you on your Hannah HOWLAND hunt but do > have a bit of info on the Hannah, b. 1708 to John HOWLAND.<SNIP>