Bill, At 08:09 PM 1/16/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >And your comment: >" I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar >1634/35." > >Good point! > >I am also confused about the dates for the first Hull party. Weymouth, >Dorset information says they departed 20 March 1635. A Hull biography I >found says they reached Boston on 6 May 1635. Of course, given the old >calendar 6 May 1635 is before 20 March 1635 rather than after it. Maybe >they departed Dorset on 20 March 1635 and arrived at Boston 6 May 1636. Hmmm..... I haven't an immigration (arrival) date for them, only an emigration (left) date. NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15 is the passenger list *found in England* of those leaving England - not those arriving in New England. It says: "Bound for New England. "Waymouth } ye 20th of } March 1635 }" I was in error when I said: >because this >passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in >Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. for I don't believe it pertains to their disembarkation at all - only to their embarkation. You say you found the date of 6 May 1635 in a HULL biography for their arrival - immigration. I'm going to note this date for further research. Thank you. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >It would be interesting to see the hand written originals. Sixes & >fives are the most confused numbers -- I can testify to that by my own >errors. Fours and fives are less likely to be confused. > >However, their passage took less than two months -- quite record time >for a 17th century vessel! A direct route, good wind and a really good >navigator I suppose. > > >On your comment: >" I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the >MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as >it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from >Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD >and GRONE????" > >Indentured is a possibility and given Shepheard and Grone's ages servant >is quite likely. The 22 year old Shepheard was gentry so he would have >been in the service of Martin rather than being a domestic. (Domestic >servants were non-gentry.) > >I note in looking at the upper part of the passenger list that the >tradesmen and shopkeeper types brought with them in their parties the >craftsmen and servants necessary to ply their trade. However, the >Husbandman in the listing really have no extras. This makes me wonder >who the Husbandmen used for labor once they arrived. > >Husbandmen and Yeoman were the lower two classes of gentry and would do >manual labor; however, the number of men I see in their party would not >have been sufficient to efficiently clear and work a colony holding. >They would have required some number of non-gentry laborers. Being >gentry in this place and period it is not likely they used their women >for heavy labor. > >I don't know about the Mass Bay Colony but in Plymouth, where my >ancestor settled, the holdings were in about 50 acre blocks. In England >for farming in that time a gentry required 1 farm laborer per 12 acres >or so. Setting clearing aside, to farm 50 acres one needed about 4 men >in addition to one's self. Less if they were not farming but raising >animals. Most did both. Robert Martin was successful so apparently >non-gentry Ag labs were available for their use. > >Bill Churchill > >END > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] >Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:17 AM >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Question about Rehoboth Martins/Uphams > >Hi Bill, > >At 11:39 PM 1/15/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > >I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. > > > > >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] > >published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter >Printing > >Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY > >there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in > >1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. > > > >Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of > >Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. >I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a >Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. > > > >Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these >Martins or Uphams? > > > >The Martin/Upham part of the list: > >88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. > >89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. > >90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. > >91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. > >92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. > >93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. > >94 William Grane, aged 12. > >95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. > >96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. > >97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. > >I haven't any help for you but did find this same list in NEHGR CD: >NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15. >It seems this list was sent to APPLETON in 1870 by H.G. Somerby in >London with the following note: > >"Amongst a bundle of miscellaneous manuscripts just turned up in the >Public Record Office, I find, with other documents relating to New >England, the following list of passengers, which I have the pleasure of >sending to you for publication in the Register." > >Nothing about this Humphrey SHEPHEARD/SHEPARD in: > >NEHGR CDS, Torrey, or Savage > >It appears he just fell off the face of the earth on stepping on terra >firma in Weymouth. As to the William GRANE, no GRANE on the CDs, in >Torrey or Savage. With neither in Torrey it appears neither ever >married?? > >However, I'm wondering if GRANE should read CRANE??? There are several >Wm. CRANEs in the above sources but no CRANE in GM 1634-1635, Vol. II >C-F. > >Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE >should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this >passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in >Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM >1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have. > > >In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptized > >or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey > >Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. > > > >Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery > >Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 >but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. > >Did find mentioned in NEHGR 82:187 a Humphrey SHEPPARDE involved in >taking an inventory of the estate of William GROTOUN 1608 in Sephtoun, >co. Lancaster, England. This isn't the same, Humphrey SHEPHEARD wasn't >born until c1613. > >I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the >MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as >it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from >Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD >and GRONE???? > >I see my ancestor, Zachary BICKNELL with wife and son is on this list. I >already knew he emigrated to Weymouth on 20 Mar 1634 with Rev. Joseph >HULL's company per: > >George Walter Chamberlain, M.S., History_of_Weymouth,_Massachusetts, >Vol. 3 (n.p.: n. pub., 1923), p. 78. > >I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar >1634/35. > >--- Susan >SGTAYLOR1@att.net > My Genealogy Website - sgt >http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. 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