Susan, Again thank you. On your comment: "Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM 1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have." And your comment: " I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar 1634/35." Good point! I am also confused about the dates for the first Hull party. Weymouth, Dorset information says they departed 20 March 1635. A Hull biography I found says they reached Boston on 6 May 1635. Of course, given the old calendar 6 May 1635 is before 20 March 1635 rather than after it. Maybe they departed Dorset on 20 March 1635 and arrived at Boston 6 May 1636. It would be interesting to see the hand written originals. Sixes & fives are the most confused numbers -- I can testify to that by my own errors. Fours and fives are less likely to be confused. However, their passage took less than two months -- quite record time for a 17th century vessel! A direct route, good wind and a really good navigator I suppose. On your comment: " I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD and GRONE????" Indentured is a possibility and given Shepheard and Grone's ages servant is quite likely. The 22 year old Shepheard was gentry so he would have been in the service of Martin rather than being a domestic. (Domestic servants were non-gentry.) I note in looking at the upper part of the passenger list that the tradesmen and shopkeeper types brought with them in their parties the craftsmen and servants necessary to ply their trade. However, the Husbandman in the listing really have no extras. This makes me wonder who the Husbandmen used for labor once they arrived. Husbandmen and Yeoman were the lower two classes of gentry and would do manual labor; however, the number of men I see in their party would not have been sufficient to efficiently clear and work a colony holding. They would have required some number of non-gentry laborers. Being gentry in this place and period it is not likely they used their women for heavy labor. I don't know about the Mass Bay Colony but in Plymouth, where my ancestor settled, the holdings were in about 50 acre blocks. In England for farming in that time a gentry required 1 farm laborer per 12 acres or so. Setting clearing aside, to farm 50 acres one needed about 4 men in addition to one's self. Less if they were not farming but raising animals. Most did both. Robert Martin was successful so apparently non-gentry Ag labs were available for their use. Bill Churchill END -----Original Message----- From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:17 AM To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Question about Rehoboth Martins/Uphams Hi Bill, At 11:39 PM 1/15/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. > > >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] >published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter Printing >Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY >there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in >1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. > >Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of >Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. > >Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these Martins or Uphams? > >The Martin/Upham part of the list: >88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. >89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. >90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. >91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. >92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. >93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. >94 William Grane, aged 12. >95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. >96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. >97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. I haven't any help for you but did find this same list in NEHGR CD: NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15. It seems this list was sent to APPLETON in 1870 by H.G. Somerby in London with the following note: "Amongst a bundle of miscellaneous manuscripts just turned up in the Public Record Office, I find, with other documents relating to New England, the following list of passengers, which I have the pleasure of sending to you for publication in the Register." Nothing about this Humphrey SHEPHEARD/SHEPARD in: NEHGR CDS, Torrey, or Savage It appears he just fell off the face of the earth on stepping on terra firma in Weymouth. As to the William GRANE, no GRANE on the CDs, in Torrey or Savage. With neither in Torrey it appears neither ever married?? However, I'm wondering if GRANE should read CRANE??? There are several Wm. CRANEs in the above sources but no CRANE in GM 1634-1635, Vol. II C-F. Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM 1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have. >In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptized >or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey >Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. > >Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery >Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. Did find mentioned in NEHGR 82:187 a Humphrey SHEPPARDE involved in taking an inventory of the estate of William GROTOUN 1608 in Sephtoun, co. Lancaster, England. This isn't the same, Humphrey SHEPHEARD wasn't born until c1613. I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD and GRONE???? I see my ancestor, Zachary BICKNELL with wife and son is on this list. I already knew he emigrated to Weymouth on 20 Mar 1634 with Rev. Joseph HULL's company per: George Walter Chamberlain, M.S., History_of_Weymouth,_Massachusetts, Vol. 3 (n.p.: n. pub., 1923), p. 78. I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar 1634/35. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/