On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 23:14:24 -0700 "Karen Riley" <karen_riley@worldnet.att.net> writes: > when it comes > to the United States I am a total novice. > > snip < > > Lived all their lives in Whitman MA > > I am looking for Frank Willett d. 1945 aged 88 yrs. Karen - You should ask the Whitman and Abington Town Clerks. Whitman (incorporated South Abington, 1875, renamed 1886) might have Frank's marriages and Abington might have his birth. Whitman Town Hall 54 South Ave. P.O. Box 426 Whitman, MA 02382-2052 Hours: Mon. - Fri. 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Phone: 781-447-7607 Fax: 781-447-7318 http://www.ci.whitman.ma.us/ Abington Town Hall 500 Gliniewicz Way Abington, MA 02351-1675 Hours: Mon. - Fri. 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Phone: 781-982-2112 Fax: 781-982-2138 http://www.abingtonmass.com/ Frank Willett could easily have been an Abington native. There were Willetts in Abington from the beginning of the 18th century. I don't see any Stevensons in the Abington VRs, which end in 1850. Dale H. Cook USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

Hi All I just joined the list and I am an Aussie living in Idaho. I have done heaps of research in Australia and England....but when it comes to the United States I am a total novice. I am starting from scratch here so I need help.....PLEASE. I'm looking for rellies of my husband's. Lived all their lives in Whitman MA I am looking for Frank Willett d. 1945 aged 88 yrs. 1st marriage Adelaide Stevenson d. 1900 Children: 1. Frances (male) 2. Gladys 3. Miriam 2nd Marriage to Mary (unknown surname) How can I find more ??? Karen Idaho

I should have added this release with the notice I sent this morning about the "Old Ship Cemetery". >PERMISSION TO REPRINT articles from MISSING LINKS is granted >unless stated otherwise, provided: (1) the reprint is not used >for commercial purposes; and (2) the following notice appears at >the end of the article: Previously published in MISSING LINKS, >Vol. 8, No. 3, 19 January 2003 http://www.petuniapress.com > Sorry Julie Fred Frederick M. Dittmar Diggin' Deep Genealogy Research Service Box 2601 - Norman, Oklahoma 73070-2601 http://www.dittmar.net/fred Member: Association of Professional Genealogists Mail List Administrator: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAR-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAN-L@rootsweb.com CANNING-L@rootsweb.com HEMMERLY-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALE-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALES-L@rootsweb.com ZIEGENGEIST-L@rootsweb.com OK-GEN-SOC-L@rootsweb.com Board Member & Genealogical Assistant Oklahoma Genealogical Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgs

FROM: Missing Links Newsletter, Vol 8 #3, 19 January 2003 MASSACHUSETTS, PLYMOUTH. HINGHAM "OLD SHIP" CEMETERY. Alphabetic listing (including last, first, and middle names, title, date of birth, date of death, section, plot, and lot) of 3,953 burials at Hingham "Old Ship" Cemetery (operated 1637 to the present; cemetery records on site and searchable by appointment) located in Hingham, Plymouth, Massachusetts. Links to other Hingham cemeteries (Fort Hill, High Street, Hingham Centre, Liberty Plain, and Saint Paul's Church). Links to SOUTHER family data. http://www.geocities.com/richardsouther/Hingham.Cemetery.html -- Frederick M. Dittmar Diggin' Deep Genealogy Research Service Box 2601 - Norman, Oklahoma 73070-2601 http://www.dittmar.net/fred Member: Association of Professional Genealogists Mail List Administrator: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAR-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAN-L@rootsweb.com CANNING-L@rootsweb.com HEMMERLY-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALE-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALES-L@rootsweb.com ZIEGENGEIST-L@rootsweb.com OK-GEN-SOC-L@rootsweb.com Board Member & Genealogical Assistant Oklahoma Genealogical Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgs

Thanks, Susan. Definitely appreciate the reply; pursuing false leads can be frustrating :-) Melissa Susan Taylor wrote: > Melissa, > > At 01:16 PM 1/12/03 -0500, mwyant@attglobal.net wrote: > >Hi Folks: > >I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any > >further than > >the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy which > >didn't > >always give source cites. > > > >Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that married > >Johanna > >Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further > >into primary > >sources. > > ***No***, he is not the same John. John, son of the Richard/1 we have been > discussing, married 1st 1681 in Rehoboth Mercy/2 BILLINGTON per: > > 1. Harriet W. Hodge, > Mayflower_Families_Through_Five_Generations,_Descendants_of_the_Pilgrims_Who > landed at Plymouth,_Mass._December_1620: Edward Winslow - John Billington, > Vol. Five (Billington section) (Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower > Descendants, 1991), p. 46. [Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, > 1601-1837, p. 283]. Hereinafter cited as MF5GBillington. > > 2. James N. Arnold, Vital_Records_of_Rehoboth, 1642-1896. Marriages, > Intentions, Births, Deaths, with Supplement Containing the Record of 1896, > Colonial Returns, Lists of the Early Settlers, Purchasers, Freeman, > Inhabitants, the Soldiers Serving in Phillip's War and the Revolution > (Providence: Narragansett Historical Publishing Co., 1897), p. 239; VR > 1:47. Hereinafter cited as ArnoldRehoboth. > > 3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 (Baltimore: > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > > and he married 2nd in 1719 Rehoboth Abigail READ per: > > 1. MF5GBillington, p. 46 > 2. ArnoldRehoboth, p. 239; VR 2:135 > > Nowwww MARTIN was a very common early New England name. There were several > MARTIN progenitor/immigrants. I see in Torrey , p. 492, the John MARTIN > that married Joan/Joanna EUSTANCE?/ENSTANCE/ESTEN/ASTIN on 26 Apr 1671 and > that they resided in Swansea. This John was born in 1633 and died 1713 in > prob. Swansea. John, the son of my Richard MARTIN, was born in England (and > baptized in 1653 at Ottery St. Mary's church) and died 1720 in Rehoboth. Do > note Torrey has listed over 14 John MARTIN marriages prior to 1700 and at > least 7 different Richard MARTINS. > > Sorry. > > --- Susan > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > My Genealogy Website - sgt > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > ----------------------------------------------- > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > ********************************************************* > > >Thanks, > >Melissa > > > >Susan Taylor wrote: > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > > > > > > >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery > > > >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon > > > >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an > > > >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became > > > >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family > > > >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received > > > >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources > > > >are mixed up. > > > > > > > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file > > > >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" > > > >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. > > > >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard > > > >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this > > > >was the Rehoboth Richard. > > > > > > > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several > > > >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. > > > >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why > > > >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > > > > > > > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have > > > >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the > > > >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. > > > > > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church > > > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. > > > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow in his > > > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this > > > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but > > > still interesting. > > > > > > >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no > > > >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that > > > >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find > > > >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. > > > >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so > > > >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. > > > > > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was > > > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for > > > lurkers who don't here's the cite: > > > > > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn, > > > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 (Baltimore, MD: > > > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR > > 127:28]. > > > > > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article > > > starts on p. 27 and is: > > > > > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in > > > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) > > > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > > > p. 28 says: > > > > > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of > > > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ > > > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England > > > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those > > > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists there. For > > > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that > > > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then existing > > > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of Rehoboth, > > > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, > > > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane > > > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and > > > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth > > > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that > > > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a will > > > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1900, p. > > > 303)." > > > > > > >Questions: > > > > > > > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? > > > > > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with > > > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : > > > > > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate > > > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 > > > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is hard > > > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends > > > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: > > > > > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old England > > > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY > > > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and > > > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) > > > > > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance > > > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 > > > May 1695. > > > > > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in it! I > > > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you again > > > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to Richard. My > > > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my SABIN > > > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. 1696 Mary > > > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this > > > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I > > > haven't been able to verify them: > > > > > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR > > Rehoboth) > > > Elizabeth - from Savage > > > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and Savage > > > Jonathan - from Savage > > > Martha - from Savage > > > > > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my > > > daughter Grace's eldest son." > > > > > > >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have > > > >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's > > > >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with > > > >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or > > > >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > > > > > > > >Which class of gentry was Richard? > > > > > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime > > > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. > > > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing > > > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving his son > > > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he > > > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to > > > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says > > > > > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged > > > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds > > estate in > > > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his > > brother, > > > Robert Martin." > > > > > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more than I > > > have added to this thread. Thank you. > > > > > > --- Susan > > > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > > > My Genealogy Website - sgt > > > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > > > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > > > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > > > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > > > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > > > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > > > ********************************************************* > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Bill Churchill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM > > > >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > > > > > > > >Bill, > > > > > > > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of > > > >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > > > > > > > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first > > > >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between > > > >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > > > > > > > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to > > > >Elizabeth SALTER per: > > > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), > > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; > > > >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > > > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, > > > >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: > > > >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) > > > >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. > > > >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. > > > >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, > > > >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) > > > >Martin.[4] > > > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > > > >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is > > > >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > > > > > > > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > > > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), > > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 > > > >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. > > > >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef > > > >1620...." > > > > > > > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this > > > >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I > > > >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > > > > > > > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol > > > >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They > > > >are my ancestors. > > > > > > > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died > > > >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 > > > >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > > > > > > > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > > > > > > > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE > > > >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... > > > >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph > > > >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was > > > >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > > > > > > > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > > > > > > > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth > > > >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, > > > >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born > > > >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. > > > >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really > > > >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England > > > >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN > > > >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on > > > >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > > > >============================== > > > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > > > >go to: > > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > > records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > >============================== > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > >go to: > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Bill, At 08:09 PM 1/16/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >And your comment: >" I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar >1634/35." > >Good point! > >I am also confused about the dates for the first Hull party. Weymouth, >Dorset information says they departed 20 March 1635. A Hull biography I >found says they reached Boston on 6 May 1635. Of course, given the old >calendar 6 May 1635 is before 20 March 1635 rather than after it. Maybe >they departed Dorset on 20 March 1635 and arrived at Boston 6 May 1636. Hmmm..... I haven't an immigration (arrival) date for them, only an emigration (left) date. NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15 is the passenger list *found in England* of those leaving England - not those arriving in New England. It says: "Bound for New England. "Waymouth } ye 20th of } March 1635 }" I was in error when I said: >because this >passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in >Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. for I don't believe it pertains to their disembarkation at all - only to their embarkation. You say you found the date of 6 May 1635 in a HULL biography for their arrival - immigration. I'm going to note this date for further research. Thank you. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >It would be interesting to see the hand written originals. Sixes & >fives are the most confused numbers -- I can testify to that by my own >errors. Fours and fives are less likely to be confused. > >However, their passage took less than two months -- quite record time >for a 17th century vessel! A direct route, good wind and a really good >navigator I suppose. > > >On your comment: >" I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the >MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as >it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from >Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD >and GRONE????" > >Indentured is a possibility and given Shepheard and Grone's ages servant >is quite likely. The 22 year old Shepheard was gentry so he would have >been in the service of Martin rather than being a domestic. (Domestic >servants were non-gentry.) > >I note in looking at the upper part of the passenger list that the >tradesmen and shopkeeper types brought with them in their parties the >craftsmen and servants necessary to ply their trade. However, the >Husbandman in the listing really have no extras. This makes me wonder >who the Husbandmen used for labor once they arrived. > >Husbandmen and Yeoman were the lower two classes of gentry and would do >manual labor; however, the number of men I see in their party would not >have been sufficient to efficiently clear and work a colony holding. >They would have required some number of non-gentry laborers. Being >gentry in this place and period it is not likely they used their women >for heavy labor. > >I don't know about the Mass Bay Colony but in Plymouth, where my >ancestor settled, the holdings were in about 50 acre blocks. In England >for farming in that time a gentry required 1 farm laborer per 12 acres >or so. Setting clearing aside, to farm 50 acres one needed about 4 men >in addition to one's self. Less if they were not farming but raising >animals. Most did both. Robert Martin was successful so apparently >non-gentry Ag labs were available for their use. > >Bill Churchill > >END > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] >Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:17 AM >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Question about Rehoboth Martins/Uphams > >Hi Bill, > >At 11:39 PM 1/15/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > >I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. > > > > >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] > >published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter >Printing > >Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY > >there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in > >1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. > > > >Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of > >Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. >I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a >Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. > > > >Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these >Martins or Uphams? > > > >The Martin/Upham part of the list: > >88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. > >89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. > >90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. > >91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. > >92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. > >93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. > >94 William Grane, aged 12. > >95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. > >96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. > >97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. > >I haven't any help for you but did find this same list in NEHGR CD: >NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15. >It seems this list was sent to APPLETON in 1870 by H.G. Somerby in >London with the following note: > >"Amongst a bundle of miscellaneous manuscripts just turned up in the >Public Record Office, I find, with other documents relating to New >England, the following list of passengers, which I have the pleasure of >sending to you for publication in the Register." > >Nothing about this Humphrey SHEPHEARD/SHEPARD in: > >NEHGR CDS, Torrey, or Savage > >It appears he just fell off the face of the earth on stepping on terra >firma in Weymouth. As to the William GRANE, no GRANE on the CDs, in >Torrey or Savage. With neither in Torrey it appears neither ever >married?? > >However, I'm wondering if GRANE should read CRANE??? There are several >Wm. CRANEs in the above sources but no CRANE in GM 1634-1635, Vol. II >C-F. > >Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE >should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this >passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in >Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM >1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have. > > >In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptized > >or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey > >Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. > > > >Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery > >Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 >but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. > >Did find mentioned in NEHGR 82:187 a Humphrey SHEPPARDE involved in >taking an inventory of the estate of William GROTOUN 1608 in Sephtoun, >co. Lancaster, England. This isn't the same, Humphrey SHEPHEARD wasn't >born until c1613. > >I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the >MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as >it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from >Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD >and GRONE???? > >I see my ancestor, Zachary BICKNELL with wife and son is on this list. I >already knew he emigrated to Weymouth on 20 Mar 1634 with Rev. Joseph >HULL's company per: > >George Walter Chamberlain, M.S., History_of_Weymouth,_Massachusetts, >Vol. 3 (n.p.: n. pub., 1923), p. 78. > >I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar >1634/35. > >--- Susan >SGTAYLOR1@att.net > My Genealogy Website - sgt >http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

The following news article was discovered by researcher/historian Neil Baker in the Windsor Ledger, [Bertie County, NC] April 6, 1899: TOMBSTONES OF STRANGERS In the small skirt of woods just out of the corporate limits in what is known as "the park," there are two tombstones that mark the resting place of strangers who died in our county. We copy the inscriptions: In memory of Wm. S. Loenard, who was born in Bridgewater Mass. April 22, 1794. Died Aug. 15, 1825. Far from my native land My spirit wings its flight, To dwell at God's right hand, With angels fair and bright. The square and compasses cut on the stone indicate that Mr. Loenard was a member of the Masonic fraternity. The other tomb is marked as follows: Latham Thurston Born in Newport R.I. Sep. 22, 1795 Died Aug. 29, 1832 in the 37th year of his age. We have sent a marked copy of this article to the postmaster of each of these places and request them to communicate with the relatives of the persons who are buried here. Best Regards, Marianne Ordway, Jefferson, MD -- Frederick M. Dittmar Diggin' Deep Genealogy Research Service Box 2601 - Norman, Oklahoma 73070-2601 http://www.dittmar.net/fred Member: Association of Professional Genealogists Mail List Administrator: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAR-L@rootsweb.com DITTMAN-L@rootsweb.com CANNING-L@rootsweb.com HEMMERLY-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALE-L@rootsweb.com CLINKSCALES-L@rootsweb.com ZIEGENGEIST-L@rootsweb.com Board Member & Genealogical Assistant Oklahoma Genealogical Society http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgs

Susan, Again thank you. On your comment: "Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM 1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have." And your comment: " I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar 1634/35." Good point! I am also confused about the dates for the first Hull party. Weymouth, Dorset information says they departed 20 March 1635. A Hull biography I found says they reached Boston on 6 May 1635. Of course, given the old calendar 6 May 1635 is before 20 March 1635 rather than after it. Maybe they departed Dorset on 20 March 1635 and arrived at Boston 6 May 1636. It would be interesting to see the hand written originals. Sixes & fives are the most confused numbers -- I can testify to that by my own errors. Fours and fives are less likely to be confused. However, their passage took less than two months -- quite record time for a 17th century vessel! A direct route, good wind and a really good navigator I suppose. On your comment: " I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD and GRONE????" Indentured is a possibility and given Shepheard and Grone's ages servant is quite likely. The 22 year old Shepheard was gentry so he would have been in the service of Martin rather than being a domestic. (Domestic servants were non-gentry.) I note in looking at the upper part of the passenger list that the tradesmen and shopkeeper types brought with them in their parties the craftsmen and servants necessary to ply their trade. However, the Husbandman in the listing really have no extras. This makes me wonder who the Husbandmen used for labor once they arrived. Husbandmen and Yeoman were the lower two classes of gentry and would do manual labor; however, the number of men I see in their party would not have been sufficient to efficiently clear and work a colony holding. They would have required some number of non-gentry laborers. Being gentry in this place and period it is not likely they used their women for heavy labor. I don't know about the Mass Bay Colony but in Plymouth, where my ancestor settled, the holdings were in about 50 acre blocks. In England for farming in that time a gentry required 1 farm laborer per 12 acres or so. Setting clearing aside, to farm 50 acres one needed about 4 men in addition to one's self. Less if they were not farming but raising animals. Most did both. Robert Martin was successful so apparently non-gentry Ag labs were available for their use. Bill Churchill END -----Original Message----- From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:17 AM To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Question about Rehoboth Martins/Uphams Hi Bill, At 11:39 PM 1/15/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. > > >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] >published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter Printing >Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY >there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in >1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. > >Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of >Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. > >Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these Martins or Uphams? > >The Martin/Upham part of the list: >88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. >89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. >90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. >91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. >92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. >93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. >94 William Grane, aged 12. >95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. >96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. >97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. I haven't any help for you but did find this same list in NEHGR CD: NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15. It seems this list was sent to APPLETON in 1870 by H.G. Somerby in London with the following note: "Amongst a bundle of miscellaneous manuscripts just turned up in the Public Record Office, I find, with other documents relating to New England, the following list of passengers, which I have the pleasure of sending to you for publication in the Register." Nothing about this Humphrey SHEPHEARD/SHEPARD in: NEHGR CDS, Torrey, or Savage It appears he just fell off the face of the earth on stepping on terra firma in Weymouth. As to the William GRANE, no GRANE on the CDs, in Torrey or Savage. With neither in Torrey it appears neither ever married?? However, I'm wondering if GRANE should read CRANE??? There are several Wm. CRANEs in the above sources but no CRANE in GM 1634-1635, Vol. II C-F. Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM 1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have. >In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptized >or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey >Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. > >Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery >Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. Did find mentioned in NEHGR 82:187 a Humphrey SHEPPARDE involved in taking an inventory of the estate of William GROTOUN 1608 in Sephtoun, co. Lancaster, England. This isn't the same, Humphrey SHEPHEARD wasn't born until c1613. I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD and GRONE???? I see my ancestor, Zachary BICKNELL with wife and son is on this list. I already knew he emigrated to Weymouth on 20 Mar 1634 with Rev. Joseph HULL's company per: George Walter Chamberlain, M.S., History_of_Weymouth,_Massachusetts, Vol. 3 (n.p.: n. pub., 1923), p. 78. I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar 1634/35. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/

Hi Bill, At 11:39 PM 1/15/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. > > >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] >published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter Printing >Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY >there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in >1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. > >Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of >Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. >I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a >Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. > >Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these >Martins or Uphams? > >The Martin/Upham part of the list: >88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. >89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. >90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. >91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. >92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. >93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. >94 William Grane, aged 12. >95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. >96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. >97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. I haven't any help for you but did find this same list in NEHGR CD: NEHGS 25, "More Passengers for New England" by Wm Appleton, pp. 13-15. It seems this list was sent to APPLETON in 1870 by H.G. Somerby in London with the following note: "Amongst a bundle of miscellaneous manuscripts just turned up in the Public Record Office, I find, with other documents relating to New England, the following list of passengers, which I have the pleasure of sending to you for publication in the Register." Nothing about this Humphrey SHEPHEARD/SHEPARD in: NEHGR CDS, Torrey, or Savage It appears he just fell off the face of the earth on stepping on terra firma in Weymouth. As to the William GRANE, no GRANE on the CDs, in Torrey or Savage. With neither in Torrey it appears neither ever married?? However, I'm wondering if GRANE should read CRANE??? There are several Wm. CRANEs in the above sources but no CRANE in GM 1634-1635, Vol. II C-F. Nowwww the Robert MARTINS, these UPHAM, Humphrey SHEPARD and Wm. GRANE should appear in the forth coming volumes of GM 1634-1635 because this passenger list says they either left for Weymouth or disembarked in Weymouth on 20 Mar 1635. I haven't heard if/when the next volume of GM 1634-1635 will be out. Vol. II C-F is the latest I have. >In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptised >or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey >Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. > >Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery >Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 >but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. Did find mentioned in NEHGR 82:187 a Humphrey SHEPPARDE involved in taking an inventory of the estate of William GROTOUN 1608 in Sephtoun, co. Lancaster, England. This isn't the same, Humphrey SHEPHEARD wasn't born until c1613. I suspect that SHEPHEARD and GRONE were indentured servants of the MARTINs and UPHAM yet their status should have been noted in the list as it was for others??? I notice in the list several families were from Batcombe, co. Somersett. Maybe records of Batcombe might have SHEPHEARD and GRONE???? I see my ancestor, Zachary BICKNELL with wife and son is on this list. I already knew he emigrated to Weymouth on 20 Mar 1634 with Rev. Joseph HULL's company per: George Walter Chamberlain, M.S., History_of_Weymouth,_Massachusetts, Vol. 3 (n.p.: n. pub., 1923), p. 78. I suspect the emigration date for these folks should read 20 Mar 1634/35. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >I realise the question is rather obscure but any help will be >appreciated. > > >Bill Churchill > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

I have a Rehoboth Martin/Upham question. >From Vol. I, History of Weymouth Massachusetts in four volumes [1923] published by the WEYMOUTH HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Wright and Potter Printing Company, Boston. PAGE 72, Chapter XV THE COMING OF THE HULL COMPANY there is a listing of the individuals who arrived in Weymouth, MA in 1633 (or 1635) in a party with the Reverend Joseph Hull. Below is the section of the list in which the Uphams and Martins of Rehoboth are found. In general the list is arraigned by family groups. I note that mixed in the listing of Martins and Uphams there is a Humfrey Shepheard age 22 and a William Grane age 12. Does anyone know if/how Sheheard and Grane were related to either these Martins or Uphams? The Martin/Upham part of the list: 88 Robert Martyn of Bakombe, husbandman, aged 44. 89 Humfrey Shepheard, husbandman, 22 years. 90 John Upham, husbandman, aged 35 years. 91 Joane Martyn, aged 44 years. 92 Elizabeth Upham, aged 32 years. 93 John Upham, Junior, aged 7 years. 94 William Grane, aged 12. 95 Sarah Upham, aged 26. 96 Nathaniel Upham, aged 5 years. 97 Elizabeth Upham, aged 3 years. In Ottery Saint Mary parish registers I find no Granes either baptised or married in the necessary time period. Likewise there is no Humfrey Shepherd who could be a 22 year old in the 1633 to 1635 period. Humphry is a name used by Ottery Shepheards and there was a Humphery Shepheard with wife Marie who was having children between 1623 and 1635 but he could not be a 22 year old in 1633/1635. I realise the question is rather obscure but any help will be appreciated. Bill Churchill

Melissa, At 02:31 PM 1/12/03 -0500, mwyant@attglobal.net wrote: >The baptism of Annis/Agnes Martin, dau of Richard & Elizabeth (Salter) >Martin is given >in NEHGR 142:351. Source is cited as Mayflower Quarterly 49[1983]:175. Thank you! Just spun the ole NEHGR cd and found this CHAFFEE info in the article on "Seventeenth Century Hull, Massachusetts and her People". --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >mwyant@attglobal.net wrote: > > > Hi Folks: > > I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any > further than > > the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy > which didn't > > always give source cites. > > > > Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that > married Johanna > > Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further > into primary > > sources. > > > > Thanks, > > Melissa > > > > Susan Taylor wrote: > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > > > > > > >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery > > > >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon > > > >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an > > > >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became > > > >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family > > > >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received > > > >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources > > > >are mixed up. > > > > > > > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file > > > >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" > > > >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. > > > >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard > > > >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this > > > >was the Rehoboth Richard. > > > > > > > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several > > > >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. > > > >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why > > > >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > > > > > > > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have > > > >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the > > > >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. > > > > > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church > > > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. > > > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow > in his > > > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this > > > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but > > > still interesting. > > > > > > >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no > > > >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that > > > >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find > > > >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. > > > >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so > > > >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. > > > > > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was > > > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for > > > lurkers who don't here's the cite: > > > > > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn, > > > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 > (Baltimore, MD: > > > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR > 127:28]. > > > > > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article > > > starts on p. 27 and is: > > > > > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in > > > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) > > > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > > > p. 28 says: > > > > > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of > > > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ > > > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England > > > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those > > > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists > there. For > > > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that > > > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then > existing > > > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of > Rehoboth, > > > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, > > > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane > > > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and > > > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth > > > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that > > > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a > will > > > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, > 1900, p. > > > 303)." > > > > > > >Questions: > > > > > > > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? > > > > > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with > > > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : > > > > > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate > > > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 > > > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is > hard > > > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends > > > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: > > > > > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old > England > > > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY > > > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and > > > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) > > > > > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance > > > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 > > > May 1695. > > > > > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in > it! I > > > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you > again > > > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to > Richard. My > > > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my > SABIN > > > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. > 1696 Mary > > > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this > > > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I > > > haven't been able to verify them: > > > > > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR > Rehoboth) > > > Elizabeth - from Savage > > > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and > Savage > > > Jonathan - from Savage > > > Martha - from Savage > > > > > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my > > > daughter Grace's eldest son." > > > > > > >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have > > > >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's > > > >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with > > > >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or > > > >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > > > > > > > >Which class of gentry was Richard? > > > > > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime > > > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. > > > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing > > > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving > his son > > > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he > > > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to > > > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says > > > > > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged > > > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds > estate in > > > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his > brother, > > > Robert Martin." > > > > > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more > than I > > > have added to this thread. Thank you. > > > > > > --- Susan > > > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > > > My Genealogy Website - sgt > > > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > > ----------------------------------------------- > > > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > > > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > > > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > > > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > > > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > > > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > > > ********************************************************* > > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Bill Churchill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] > > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM > > > >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com > > > >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > > > > > > > >Bill, > > > > > > > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of > > > >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > > > > > > > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first > > > >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between > > > >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > > > > > > > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to > > > >Elizabeth SALTER per: > > > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), > > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; > > > >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > > > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, > > > >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: > > > >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) > > > >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. > > > >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. > > > >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, > > > >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) > > > >Martin.[4] > > > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > > > >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is > > > >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > > > > > > > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > > > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), > > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 > > > >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. > > > >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef > > > >1620...." > > > > > > > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this > > > >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I > > > >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > > > > > > > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol > > > >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They > > > >are my ancestors. > > > > > > > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died > > > >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 > > > >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > > > > > > > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > > > > > > > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE > > > >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... > > > >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph > > > >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was > > > >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > > > > > > > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > > > > > > > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth > > > >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, > > > >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born > > > >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. > > > >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really > > > >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England > > > >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN > > > >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on > > > >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > > > >============================== > > > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, > > > >go to: > > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > > ============================== > > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Melissa, At 01:16 PM 1/12/03 -0500, mwyant@attglobal.net wrote: >Hi Folks: >I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any >further than >the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy which >didn't >always give source cites. > >Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that married >Johanna >Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further >into primary >sources. ***No***, he is not the same John. John, son of the Richard/1 we have been discussing, married 1st 1681 in Rehoboth Mercy/2 BILLINGTON per: 1. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower_Families_Through_Five_Generations,_Descendants_of_the_Pilgrims_Who landed at Plymouth,_Mass._December_1620: Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) (Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. [Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. Hereinafter cited as MF5GBillington. 2. James N. Arnold, Vital_Records_of_Rehoboth, 1642-1896. Marriages, Intentions, Births, Deaths, with Supplement Containing the Record of 1896, Colonial Returns, Lists of the Early Settlers, Purchasers, Freeman, Inhabitants, the Soldiers Serving in Phillip's War and the Revolution (Providence: Narragansett Historical Publishing Co., 1897), p. 239; VR 1:47. Hereinafter cited as ArnoldRehoboth. 3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. and he married 2nd in 1719 Rehoboth Abigail READ per: 1. MF5GBillington, p. 46 2. ArnoldRehoboth, p. 239; VR 2:135 Nowwww MARTIN was a very common early New England name. There were several MARTIN progenitor/immigrants. I see in Torrey , p. 492, the John MARTIN that married Joan/Joanna EUSTANCE?/ENSTANCE/ESTEN/ASTIN on 26 Apr 1671 and that they resided in Swansea. This John was born in 1633 and died 1713 in prob. Swansea. John, the son of my Richard MARTIN, was born in England (and baptized in 1653 at Ottery St. Mary's church) and died 1720 in Rehoboth. Do note Torrey has listed over 14 John MARTIN marriages prior to 1700 and at least 7 different Richard MARTINS. Sorry. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >Thanks, >Melissa > >Susan Taylor wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > > > > >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery > > >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon > > >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an > > >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became > > >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family > > >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received > > >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources > > >are mixed up. > > > > > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file > > >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" > > >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. > > >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard > > >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this > > >was the Rehoboth Richard. > > > > > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several > > >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. > > >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why > > >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > > > > > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have > > >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the > > >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. > > > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church > > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. > > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow in his > > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this > > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but > > still interesting. > > > > >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no > > >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that > > >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find > > >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. > > >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so > > >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. > > > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was > > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for > > lurkers who don't here's the cite: > > > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn, > > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 (Baltimore, MD: > > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR > 127:28]. > > > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article > > starts on p. 27 and is: > > > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in > > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) > > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > p. 28 says: > > > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of > > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ > > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England > > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those > > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists there. For > > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that > > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then existing > > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of Rehoboth, > > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, > > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane > > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and > > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth > > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that > > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a will > > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1900, p. > > 303)." > > > > >Questions: > > > > > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? > > > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with > > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : > > > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate > > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 > > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is hard > > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends > > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: > > > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old England > > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY > > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and > > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) > > > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance > > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 > > May 1695. > > > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in it! I > > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you again > > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to Richard. My > > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my SABIN > > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. 1696 Mary > > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this > > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I > > haven't been able to verify them: > > > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR > Rehoboth) > > Elizabeth - from Savage > > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and Savage > > Jonathan - from Savage > > Martha - from Savage > > > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my > > daughter Grace's eldest son." > > > > >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have > > >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's > > >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with > > >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or > > >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > > > > > >Which class of gentry was Richard? > > > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime > > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. > > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing > > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving his son > > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he > > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to > > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says > > > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged > > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds > estate in > > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his > brother, > > Robert Martin." > > > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more than I > > have added to this thread. Thank you. > > > > --- Susan > > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > > My Genealogy Website - sgt > > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > ----------------------------------------------- > > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > > ********************************************************* > > > > >Regards, > > >Bill Churchill > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM > > >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > > > > > >Bill, > > > > > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: > > >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of > > >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > > > > > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first > > >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between > > >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > > > > > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to > > >Elizabeth SALTER per: > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; > > >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, > > >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: > > >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) > > >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. > > >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. > > >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, > > >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) > > >Martin.[4] > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > > >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is > > >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > > > > > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 > > >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. > > >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef > > >1620...." > > > > > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this > > >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I > > >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > > > > > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol > > >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They > > >are my ancestors. > > > > > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died > > >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 > > >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > > > > > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > > > > > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE > > >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... > > >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph > > >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was > > >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > > > > > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > > > > > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth > > >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, > > >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born > > >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. > > >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really > > >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England > > >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN > > >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on > > >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > >============================== > > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > > >go to: > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy > records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

The baptism of Annis/Agnes Martin, dau of Richard & Elizabeth (Salter) Martin is given in NEHGR 142:351. Source is cited as Mayflower Quarterly 49[1983]:175. mwyant@attglobal.net wrote: > Hi Folks: > I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any further than > the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy which didn't > always give source cites. > > Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that married Johanna > Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further into primary > sources. > > Thanks, > Melissa > > Susan Taylor wrote: > > > Bill, > > > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > > > > >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery > > >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon > > >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an > > >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became > > >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family > > >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received > > >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources > > >are mixed up. > > > > > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file > > >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" > > >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. > > >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard > > >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this > > >was the Rehoboth Richard. > > > > > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several > > >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. > > >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why > > >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > > > > > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have > > >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the > > >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. > > > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church > > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. > > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow in his > > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this > > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but > > still interesting. > > > > >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no > > >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that > > >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find > > >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. > > >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so > > >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. > > > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was > > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for > > lurkers who don't here's the cite: > > > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn, > > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 (Baltimore, MD: > > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. > > > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article > > starts on p. 27 and is: > > > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in > > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) > > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > p. 28 says: > > > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of > > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ > > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England > > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those > > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists there. For > > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that > > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then existing > > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of Rehoboth, > > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, > > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane > > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and > > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth > > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that > > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a will > > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1900, p. > > 303)." > > > > >Questions: > > > > > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? > > > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with > > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : > > > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate > > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 > > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is hard > > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends > > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: > > > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old England > > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY > > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and > > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) > > > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance > > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 > > May 1695. > > > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in it! I > > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you again > > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to Richard. My > > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my SABIN > > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. 1696 Mary > > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this > > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I > > haven't been able to verify them: > > > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) > > Elizabeth - from Savage > > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and Savage > > Jonathan - from Savage > > Martha - from Savage > > > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my > > daughter Grace's eldest son." > > > > >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have > > >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's > > >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with > > >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or > > >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > > > > > >Which class of gentry was Richard? > > > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime > > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. > > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing > > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving his son > > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he > > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to > > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says > > > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged > > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in > > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his brother, > > Robert Martin." > > > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more than I > > have added to this thread. Thank you. > > > > --- Susan > > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > > My Genealogy Website - sgt > > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > > ----------------------------------------------- > > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > > ********************************************************* > > > > >Regards, > > >Bill Churchill > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] > > >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM > > >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com > > >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > > > > > >Bill, > > > > > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: > > >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of > > >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > > > > > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first > > >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between > > >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > > > > > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to > > >Elizabeth SALTER per: > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; > > >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, > > >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: > > >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) > > >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. > > >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. > > >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, > > >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) > > >Martin.[4] > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > > >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is > > >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > > > > > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > > > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), > > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 > > >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. > > >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef > > >1620...." > > > > > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this > > >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I > > >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > > > > > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol > > >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They > > >are my ancestors. > > > > > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died > > >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 > > >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > > > > > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > > > > > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE > > >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... > > >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph > > >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was > > >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > > > > > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > > > > > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth > > >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, > > >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born > > >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. > > >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really > > >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England > > >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN > > >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on > > >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > > >============================== > > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > > >go to: > > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Hi Folks: I believe that I have Richard Martin, as well, but haven't yet gone any further than the "Martin-Pridmore Family Record", a privately printed genealogy which didn't always give source cites. Just want to confirm that Richard's son John is the same man that married Johanna Esten ca. 1671 at Swansea MA, died Swansea 1712/13 before I go further into primary sources. Thanks, Melissa Susan Taylor wrote: > Bill, > > At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: > > >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery > >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon > >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an > >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became > >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family > >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received > >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources > >are mixed up. > > > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file > >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" > >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. > >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard > >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this > >was the Rehoboth Richard. > > > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several > >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. > >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why > >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > > > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have > >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the > >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. > > Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church > registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. > However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow in his > message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this > point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but > still interesting. > > >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no > >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that > >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find > >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. > >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so > >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. > > As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was > Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for > lurkers who don't here's the cite: > > Melinde Lutz Sanborn, > Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 (Baltimore, MD: > Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. > > Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article > starts on p. 27 and is: > > Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in > The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) > (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > p. 28 says: > > "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of > 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ > American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England > was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those > seeking the English origins of early New England families exists there. For > instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that > Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then existing > records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of Rehoboth, > Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, > however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane > Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and > Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth > Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that > much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a will > proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1900, p. > 303)." > > >Questions: > > > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? > > I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with > Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : > > Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate > Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 > (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). > > It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is hard > to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends > Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: > > Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old England > Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY > Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and > John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) > > It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance > unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 > May 1695. > > I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in it! I > didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you again > and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to Richard. My > info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my SABIN > md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. 1696 Mary > ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this > info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I > haven't been able to verify them: > > Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) > Elizabeth - from Savage > Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and Savage > Jonathan - from Savage > Martha - from Savage > > Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my > daughter Grace's eldest son." > > >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have > >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's > >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with > >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or > >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > > > >Which class of gentry was Richard? > > Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime > stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. > His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing > maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving his son > John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he > inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to > the CHAFFEE genealogy - says > > "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged > having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in > commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his brother, > Robert Martin." > > Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more than I > have added to this thread. Thank you. > > --- Susan > SGTAYLOR1@att.net > My Genealogy Website - sgt > http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ > ----------------------------------------------- > USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ > USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ > USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ > USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ > USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ > USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ > ********************************************************* > > >Regards, > >Bill Churchill > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] > >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM > >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com > >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > > > >Bill, > > > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: > >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of > >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > > > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first > >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between > >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > > > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to > >Elizabeth SALTER per: > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; > >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, > >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: > >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) > >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. > >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. > >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, > >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) > >Martin.[4] > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. > >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is > >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > > > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > > > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages > >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), > >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 > >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > > > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 > >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. > >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef > >1620...." > > > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this > >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I > >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > > > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol > >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They > >are my ancestors. > > > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died > >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 > >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > > > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > > > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE > >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... > >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph > >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was > >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > > > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > > > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth > >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, > >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born > >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. > >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really > >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England > >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN > >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on > >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > > > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > > >============================== > >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > >go to: > >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

***-----Original Message----- ***From: Richard F Strait [mailto:rfstrait@juno.com] ***Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 1:07 AM ***To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [PLY/MA] children of Metacom, aka King Philip *** *** ***Hi listers, *** ***One of my ancestors John Starkweather (1646-1703) married an Ann, ***supposedly a Wampanoag woman and the daughter of Metacom aka King Philip. ***My question is are the children of Metacom known other than the one son ***who was sent to Burmuda with his mother as a slave? *** ***TIA *** *** ***Richard F. Strait Richard, I've never seen any other children mentioned, but given that the more affluent of the Wampanoag men often had several wives it seems likely there were other children. It seems far less likely to me that one of them married your ancestor, but who knows? Here are a couple of books that might help, but I haven't seen them myself and don't know. I guess it's still undecided whether Philip/Metamcomet was the son or grandson of Massasoit, so if we don't even know that I don't know how much hope there is concerning your question. Brady, Philip. Title: Family genealogy of Massasoit Ousamequin / Physical description: [4] leaves ; 28 cm. Publication info: [Mansfield, Mass. : The Author, 1995] General note: Computer typescript. Preferred citation: R. Stanton Avery Special Collections Department, New England Historic Genealogical Society (Boston, Mass.), Mss A 534. Personal subject: Massasoit, Indian chief, 1580-1661. Peirce, Ebenezer Weaver, 1822-1903. Title: Indian history, biography and genealogy : pertaining to the good sachem Massasoit of the Wampanoag tribe, and his descendants : with an appendix / Variant title: Indian biography and genealogy Physical description: xiv, 261 p. : ill., ports. ; 19 cm. Publication info: North Abington, Mass. : Z.G. Mitchell, 1878. LC call number: E90.M4 P3

Bill, At 11:17 PM 1/9/03 -0600, Bill Churchill wrote: >I research English Churchill families so I am familiar with the Ottery >Saint Mary registers. I discovered Robert while researching Devon >Rockbeare Churchills. Robert was a follower of the Rev. Joseph Hull an >Anglican non-conformist of the type that later became >Congregationalists. I've been trying to put together Robert's family >group from Martin researchers on the Martin List but have received >conflicting information. I agree when you say many early Martin sources >are mixed up. > >After receiving your message I checked the LDS (IGI M002761) batch file >(this is the real parish register listing without all the "submitter" >trash) and found a baptism record for your John son of Richard bp 1653. >It says he was baptised 20 JAN 1653 and lists his parents as Richard >"Martyn" with mother "Eliza." Thank you, I had no way of knowing this >was the Rehoboth Richard. > >I did not find a baptism for the daughter c.1649 but did find several >Annis, Anne & Agnes -- those were common female names among OSM Martins. >It turns out that the IGI is not complete for OSM so this may be why >there is no listing for your Ann/Agnes. > >Martin List researchers do have conflicting information. Some have >Richard with wife Elizabeth Salter and 2nd married to Judith Upham the >younger sister of Robert's wife Johanna. Thank you for sharing the info you got from the Ottery... church registries. Judith as Richard's 2nd marriage is an interesting thought. However, as Torrey, Sanborn and Richard's will - as quoted by Harlow in his message to us - doesn't mention a wife or 2nd wife named Judith, at this point I'm only considering that piece of data as speculation at best but still interesting. >The LDS IGI (the real IGI) for OSM has quite a number of Martins but no >one I recognize as Robert and no Johanna Upham -- or any Uphams for that >matter. I checked the Batcombe, Somerset registers and did not find >Robert -- and no other Martins save a single Christopher Martin. >However, church registration only started late in the 16th century so >Robert's age is pushing a bit the time for registries. As to the marriage of Robert and Joanne UPHAM, one of my sources was Sanborn whose supplements to Torrey you know doubt know about but for lurkers who don't here's the cite: Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement_to_Torrey's_New_England_Marriages_Prior_to_1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. Anyways, I checked NEHGR 127:28 to see what it actually said. The article starts on p. 27 and is: Harris, Col. Edward M. "Ottery Saint Mary Origin of Thomas Harris" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical_ Register, Vol. 127 (Jan 1973) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). p. 28 says: "....As made evident by the late Mary Lovering Holman in her series of 'Notes on Some Immigrants from Ottery St Mary, Devon, England' (The_ American_ Genealogist, 16:88-95, 132-5, 205-6), emigration to New England was particularly popular in that parish, and a fertile field for those seeking the English origins of early New England families exists there. For instance, there appears in The_Register (23:33) a note to the effect that Deacon John Upham of Malden, Mass., based on the evidence of then existing records, was 'brother-in-law' of Joanna, wife of Robert Martin of Rehoboth, Mass., and of Richard Webb of Weymouth, Mass. In the Ottery register, however, appears recorded the marriage of one Robert Martin and Johane Upham on 16 Nov. 1618. One can therefore conclude that John Upham and Joanna Martin were brother and sister. One Richard Martyn and Elizabeth Salter were married at Ottery on 9 June 1630, quite likely he being that much younger brother of Robert who died "aged" at Rehoboth, leaving a will proved 7 May 1695 (Charles H. Pope, The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1900, p. 303)." >Questions: > >Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? I only knew of the parts about his daughter Annis and son John but with Harlow's message I found the will in NEHGR 63:79 : Greenlaw, Lucy Hall. "Abstracts from the First Book Bristol Probate Records" in The_New_England_Historical_&_Genealogical Register, Vol. 63 (Jan 1909) (CD; Boston: NEHGR & Broderbund Software, Inc., 1996). It was written/dated 2 June 1686 and probated 9 May 1695. Boy, it is hard to read - faded. His son John was sole executor and his "good friends Deacon Samuel Newman and Wm. Carpenter overseers. It mentions: Sons: John in new England and sons Richard and Francis still in old England Daughter: Annis md. to CHAFFEE and Grace md. to ORMSBY Grandsons: John (eldest son of Richard), 2 sons (unnamed)of Francis, and John ORMSBY (eldest son of Grace) It appears the old England children could not claim their inheritance unless they came on over. An inventory of his estate was "sworn to" on 7 May 1695. I have checked my db again and found I have Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY in it! I didn't have her parents, etc... Now with Harlow's message (thank you again and again Harlow) and subsequence research I can connect her to Richard. My info on Grace comes more or less from my SABIN line. A sibling of my SABIN md. a dau. of John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY - Israel/2 SABIN md. 1696 Mary ORMSBY. I have 5 issue for John and Grace (MARTIN) ORMSBY. However, this info is not set in concrete for some of the names comes from Savage and I haven't been able to verify them: Grace - from MF5GBillington and SABIN genealogy (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) Elizabeth - from Savage Mary - from MF5GBillington, SABIN (source: Arnold's VR Rehoboth) and Savage Jonathan - from Savage Martha - from Savage Note: only mentions 1 son while the will of Richard says, "John Omsby- my daughter Grace's eldest son." >Do you have background information on Richard Martin? From what I have >learned he certainly wasn't in any hurry to assume his brother's >Rehoboth freehold. Devon records suggest he had something to do with >maritime shipping or commerce -- ship's officer, owner's agent, owner or >part owner. One record suggests he captained the bark Blessing. > >Which class of gentry was Richard? Sorry I know nothing about his background. As to involvement in maritime stuff and such again I haven't a bit of data to prove one way or another. His inventory - only a bible mentioned - and will suggests nothing maritime. I do have a couple of land transactions for him involving his son John and son-in-law Joseph CHAFFEE. Here's one involving the land he inherited from Robert from Book 2 of Rehoboth Land Records - according to the CHAFFEE genealogy - says "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records...Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." Sorry, I haven't more detail on Richard. You have given me much more than I have added to this thread. Thank you. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >Regards, >Bill Churchill > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Taylor [mailto:SGTaylor1@att.net] >Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:00 PM >To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony Richard Martin > >Bill, > >At 09:39 AM 1/8/03 -0600, you wrote: >Does anyone on the list have the children of the early Richard Martin of >Rehoboth, Plymouth Colony? > >This Richard Martin was the younger brother of Robert Martin the first >Martin settler of Rehoboth. Richard came to the colony sometime between >1668 and 1689 and was married to Judith Upham. > >Going to start at the end of your message. Richard was married to >Elizabeth SALTER per: > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., t1991), >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTYN, Richard & Elizabeth SALTER; >m 9 June 1630 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > >2. Harriet W. Hodge, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, >Descendants of the Pilgrims Who landed at Plymouth, Mass. December 1620: >Edward Winslow - John Billington, Vol. Five (Billington section) >(Plymouth, MA: General Society of Mayflower Descendants, 1991), p. 46. >[Her source: Ottery Saint Mary Church, 1601-1837, p. 283]. >"JOHN MARTIN, bp. Ottery St. Mary, Devonshire, England 20 Jan. 1652/3, >d. Rehoboth 28 Aug. 1720; son of Richard and Elizabeth (Salter) >Martin.[4] > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 492. >"MARTIN, Richard (-1694?, 1695?) (bro of Abraham) & Elizabeth SALTER (is >this reliable?); 9 Jun 1631, b 1633; Rehoboth." > >Robert was married to Joanna UPHAM per: > >1. Melinde Lutz Sanborn, Supplement to Torrey's New England Marriages >Prior to 1700 (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991), >p. 46. [Her source: NEHGR 127:28]. "MARTIN, Robert & Joanna UPHAM; m 16 >Nov 1618 Ottery St Mary, co Devon." > >3. Clarence Almon Torrey, New England Marriages Prior to 1700 >(Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1985), p. 493. >"MARTIN, Robert .... & Joanna UPHAM (1591-1669?) (sis of John); prob bef >1620...." > >As to the children of Richard and Elizabeth (SALTER) MARTIN, at this >time I have only 2 issues listed for them. There may be more but I >haven't stumbled on them yet. I have: > >1. Annis/Anne/Agnes/ b. c1649 prob in Eng.- d. 1730 Barrington, Bristol >Co. MA - now in RI. She married 1670 in Swansea Joseph/2 CHAFFEE. They >are my ancestors. > >2. John bp. 1653 Ottery St. Mary's Church, Devonshire, England - died >1720 Rehoboth, MA. His first marriage 1681 in Rehoboth was to Mercy/3 >BILLINGTON and second marriage 1719 Rehoboth to Abigail READ. > >These are the only issue I have for them at this time. > >Richard was not only brother of Robert but of Abraham too. The CHAFFEE >genealogy says on p. 21, in "book two of the Rehoboth Land Records... >Richard Martin acknowledged having given to his son-in-law, Joseph >Chaffee, 'ffourteen pounds estate in commonage,' in Rehoboth, which was >given him by the will of his brother, Robert Martin." > >and Torrey, p. 492, says Richard was brother of Abraham. > >Probably the only sure source of issue for Richard and Elizabeth >(SALTER) MARTIN are the church registries of Ottery St. Mary's Church, >Devonshire, England. Any children for them would have had to be born >before they immigrated because they were probably in their 50 and 60s. >The LDS/FHC probably have the church registries on microfilm. You really >have to be careful in any data/research done on any early New England >Richard MARTIN for there were several Richard MARTIN >progenitor/immigrants. Many many early sources have really mixed up on >their Richard info by crediting info to the wrong Richards. > > > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Harlow! At 07:30 AM 1/10/03 -0500, Harlow Chandler wrote: >Bill and Susan, > >I know nothing about this family, but these entries from (reprint) Rounds, >H.L.Peter,_Abstracts of Bristol County, Massachusetts Probate Records, >1687-1745_(Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996) pp. 10-1 might be >something you'd be interested in. > > >"Will of RICHARD MARTEN of Reho., dtd. 2 June 1686, prob. 7 May 1695. 3 >chldn. now in New Engl.: John Martin, Grace Ormsby & Annis Chaffee. Sons >Richard & Francis, both of whom are 'now in Old England.' 2 sons[not named] >of my son Francis, and John eldest son of son Richard, if these grchldn come >over from England to New England to live. John Ormsby eldest son of dau. >Grace. Friends Deacon Samuel Newman & William Carpenter, Overseers. Witns: >William Carpenter, Thomas Read & Stephen Paine [1:120]" (pp 10-1) > >Also p. 10 "Inv. of Est. of RICHARD MARTEN of Reho.., dtd 7 May 1695, pres. >by son John Marten. Apprs: Samuel Newman, John Peck & William Carpenter >[1:119]" > >"Acct. of Est. of RICHARD MARTEN by John Marten, son & Exec. mentions Annis >Chaffee, sister of John Marten, dtd. 9 May 1695 [1:119]" Thank you, thank you! With your message about the will I have now gone back over what I had for Richard and children Annis and John and have found the complete will in NEHGS 63:79. Thank you again for jumping in and sharing this very valuable Richard data with us. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Dear List: In 1997 I received, as part of a package, a ROYALTY.GED from Parsons Technology when I purchased their Family Origins genealogy software. This GED contains much information concerning the early rulers of Europe, quite well-documented with references to many books on antiquity (not the usual unsubstantiated trash). With it, I have been able to connect to my family ancestors of well over 45 generations ago. I have also been able to determine that my family shares a large number of ancestors with Abraham Lincoln, and with the Washingtons, Spencers etc. etc. Those who have as ancestors Gov. Dudley of Mass.or his wife, Katherine Deighton, or William Hutchinson and his wife Anne Marbury, or the Hiltons of New Hampshire, or the Rev. John Wheelwright descendants in Maine, or are of the Lincolns, starting in Mass., can benefit greatly from use of this data base. I have, unfortunately, lost access to the GED after converting it to a personal data base, and then coding my ancestors with various prefixes to identify which family they were the progenitor of, thus making it extremely difficult to find the ancestor by a computer search as I add references from other text sources. The purpose of this mail is two-fold: 1) to alert people to the possibility of connecting to ancient ancestors, and 2) an attempt to obtain another copy of Royalty.GED (Parsons is no longer offering it on the Internet.) Would some kind person check out their files, and if they have the Royalty GED, provide me a copy? Please pass this message on to your e-mail correspondents who employ Parson's FO Software if you do not have the Royalty.GED yourself. I would be eternally grateful. Thank you.

Am looking for the family of Joseph Chandler (married to Martha Hunt). Need the siblings of Joseph. Looking for Robert Chandler b. Feb. 12, 1761. Don't know where he was born or who his parents were. He doesn't seem to be the son of Joseph . One child of Joseph, Zachariah, was "of North Yarmouth, Cumberland, Mass." Zachariah born July 26, 1708. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Janet

***Questions: *** ***Do you know if there is will/probate for Richard? Bill and Susan, I know nothing about this family, but these entries from (reprint) Rounds, H.L.Peter,_Abstracts of Bristol County, Massachusetts Probate Records, 1687-1745_(Baltimore, Genealogical Publishing Co., 1996) pp. 10-1 might be something you'd be interested in. "Will of RICHARD MARTEN of Reho., dtd. 2 June 1686, prob. 7 May 1695. 3 chldn. now in New Engl.: John Martin, Grace Ormsby & Annis Chaffee. Sons Richard & Francis, both of whom are 'now in Old England.' 2 sons[not named] of my son Francis, and John eldest son of son Richard, if these grchldn come over from England to New England to live. John Ormsby eldest son of dau. Grace. Friends Deacon Samuel Newman & William Carpenter, Overseers. Witns: William Carpenter, Thomas Read & Stephen Paine [1:120]" (pp 10-1) Also p. 10 "Inv. of Est. of RICHARD MARTEN of Reho.., dtd 7 May 1695, pres. by son John Marten. Apprs: Samuel Newman, John Peck & William Carpenter [1:119]" "Acct. of Est. of RICHARD MARTEN by John Marten, son & Exec. mentions Annis Chaffee, sister of John Marten, dtd. 9 May 1695 [1:119]"