Take a lot at this excellent web site on Scituate genealogy http://babbage.clarku.edu/~djoyce/gen/scituate/rr_idx/sur.html

Re Deane's _History of Scituate_, I just wanted to say that if one is researching PERRYs in Scituate, the book contains numerous errors. Kendall Mellem keks@kc.rr.com

I'm trying to find information on John LOW, Arthur HOWLAND's son-in-law and Arthur's grandson-in-law, Walter JOYCE. John and Walter didn't generate much in the way of records and they may have been Quakers. thanks, Charles -----Original Message----- From: Dale H. Cook <radiotest@juno.com> To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com <MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Thursday, June 12, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [PLY/MA] Scituate, MA--Compiled Genealogies? >At 02:48 PM 6/12/2003 -0400, Barb Pahlow wrote: > >>To me a compiled genealogy is like what you would see in an issue of the >>NEHGS register, with the generations broken out, is that right? > >Barb - > >That's one format of compiled genealogy, known as "Register Format." >Variations of that format are used by other publications. Another format is >"Record Format," used in the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record. > >Many 19th-century town histories contain family registers which predate >those formats. I would consider them collections of compiled genealogies >for the early families of those towns. Their formats vary from one town >history to another as there were no generally accepted standards for >formatting genealogical information at the time, especially for the books >that predate NEHGR (1847) such as Deane's Scituate (1831) and Mitchell's >Bridgewater (1840). > >I think Deane would prove useful to Charles, especially since the scans are >online. Of course, this is a very old work, probably contains a number of >errors, and should be used with caution. > > >Dale H. Cook >Member, NEHGS >USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: >http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Charles, At 11:14 AM 6/12/03 -0700, you wrote: >Are there any books that have compiled genealogies for early residents >(1600s) of Scituate? Here are Scituate related books on-line listed with links on my USGenWeb Plymouth County site: Plymouth County Records Online http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/plyrecords.html Scroll down to Scituate. Like Dale said the pages are in *.tif format which many graphic programs don't recognize - at least not most of the *.tif graphic files online. I find the freebie graphic program InfanView about as good as any for viewing *.tif files. http://www.irfanview.com/ Quicktime will also view these files. When viewing online my Mozilla is configured to view *.tif with QT while off line I call up IfanView. --- Susan SGTAYLOR1@att.net My Genealogy Website - sgt http://home.att.net/~SGTAYLOR1/ ----------------------------------------------- USGW Mansfield, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcmansf/ USGW New London, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnewlo/ USGW Norwich, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcnorwi/ USGW Windham, CT - http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctcwindh/ USGW Coordinator Plymouth Co., MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~maplymou/ USGW Plymouth, MA - http://www.rootsweb.com/~macplymo/ ********************************************************* >thanks, Charles > > > >==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== > ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== > +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ > =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= > ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

At 02:48 PM 6/12/2003 -0400, Barb Pahlow wrote: >To me a compiled genealogy is like what you would see in an issue of the >NEHGS register, with the generations broken out, is that right? Barb - That's one format of compiled genealogy, known as "Register Format." Variations of that format are used by other publications. Another format is "Record Format," used in the New York Genealogical and Biographical Record. Many 19th-century town histories contain family registers which predate those formats. I would consider them collections of compiled genealogies for the early families of those towns. Their formats vary from one town history to another as there were no generally accepted standards for formatting genealogical information at the time, especially for the books that predate NEHGR (1847) such as Deane's Scituate (1831) and Mitchell's Bridgewater (1840). I think Deane would prove useful to Charles, especially since the scans are online. Of course, this is a very old work, probably contains a number of errors, and should be used with caution. Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

I have this book--I didn't think of it as compiled genealogies though. Sorry if I misled Charles earlier. I use this book as a "they were here" reference, and I have a lot more to learn about genealogy in general, that's for sure. To me a compiled genealogy is like what you would see in an issue of the NEHGS register, with the generations broken out, is that right? Barb Pahlow Providence, RI -----Original Message----- From: Dale H. Cook [mailto:radiotest@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 2:27 PM To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [PLY/MA] Scituate, MA--Compiled Genealogies? At 11:14 AM 6/12/2003 -0700, charles s brack jr wrote: >Are there any books that have compiled genealogies for early residents >(1600s) of Scituate? Charles - The one that comes to mind is Samuel Deane, "History of Scituate, Massachusetts, from Its First Settlement to 1831" (Boston: James Loring, 1831; repr. N. Scituate MA: Bates and Vinal, 1899; Scituate MA: Scituate Historical Society, 1975), which contains family registers. Scans are on the USGIS site at: http://www.usigs.org/library/books/ma/Scituate1831Dean/ but you will need the ability to view TIF images in order to read them. Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html ==== MAPLYMOU Mailing List ==== ====MAPLYMOU-L/D Mail List===== +-+ Owners = List Members +-+ =Administrator Frederick M. Dittmar= ====== fred@dittmar.net ====== ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

At 02:11 PM 6/12/2003 -0700, charles s brack jr wrote: >I have Stratton's "plymouth Colony Its History and People." > >There are lists in the appendix for those that are able to bear arms. What >were the requirements to make the list? Charles - As a rule those listes were of able-bodied free men between the ages of 16 and 60. Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

At 11:14 AM 6/12/2003 -0700, charles s brack jr wrote: >Are there any books that have compiled genealogies for early residents >(1600s) of Scituate? Charles - The one that comes to mind is Samuel Deane, "History of Scituate, Massachusetts, from Its First Settlement to 1831" (Boston: James Loring, 1831; repr. N. Scituate MA: Bates and Vinal, 1899; Scituate MA: Scituate Historical Society, 1975), which contains family registers. Scans are on the USGIS site at: http://www.usigs.org/library/books/ma/Scituate1831Dean/ but you will need the ability to view TIF images in order to read them. Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

You had to be between 16 and 60, male, and presumably physically fit enough to hold up a gun--being alive might have been good enough. charles s brack jr wrote: >I have Stratton's "plymouth Colony Its History and People." > >There are lists in the appendix for those that are able to bear arms. What >were the requirements to make the list? > >thanks, Charles > > > > >

I have Stratton's "plymouth Colony Its History and People." There are lists in the appendix for those that are able to bear arms. What were the requirements to make the list? thanks, Charles

From: The Pahlows [mailto:wombat@spire.com] Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 11:41 AM To: MAPLYMOU-L@rootsweb.com; 'charles s brack jr' Subject: RE: [PLY/MA] Scituate, MA--Compiled Genealogies? The Scituate Historical Society website has some, throught 3 generations: http://www.scituatehistoricalsociety.org/families_home.html There is an 'old' "History of Scituate" and a 'new' "History of Scituate"--I have both books, but they really don't have compiled genealogies in them. I got most of my secondary source information from my Litchfield family sources, and am working on primary documentation from that. I haven't checked the other 2 sources they mention on this website. Barbara Pahlow Providence, RI

Are there any books that have compiled genealogies for early residents (1600s) of Scituate? thanks, Charles

I have added a listing of cemeteries to the new Pembroke USGenWeb page: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macpembr/cemeteries.html I have been tracking down the location of the cemeteries mentioned in Pembroke VRs, but have not yet found two of them - Chapel Burying Ground (G.R.8.) and Stetson Burying Ground (G.R.2.). If anyone knows where those cemeteries are located I would greatly appreciate receiving that information. Any additions and corrections to the cemetery list would also be appreciated. Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

New USGenWeb sites are now online for the Plymouth Co. towns of Halifax, Hull and Pembroke. Your are welcome to post queries for those towns or to list town families that you are researching. You are always welcome to contribute information to the sites - they (I have 14) always start out small, but grow through the contributions of other researchers. The URLs are: Halifax: http://www.rootsweb.com/~machalif/index.html Hull: http://www.rootsweb.com/~machull/index.html Pembroke: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macpembr/index.html Dale H. Cook Member, NEHGS USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns Host: http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

I'm going to add to the thread and it is directed at no one. My ancestor, Rev. Peter Hobart of Hingham married his sister-in-law after the death of his first wife. He stayed in the pulpit. Also: There were five Parker brothers in Groton and Chelmsford, MA early. The brothers were featured in a story in TEG (the Essex Genealogist)James Parker, son of Capt. James Parker, militia captain, town officer, married Mary Parker, daughter of Abraham Parker of Chelmsford. The couple were killed during a massacre in the late 1600s at Groton. James Jr. and Mary were my ancestors. This is all detailed in the history of Groton, MA. The marriage was allowed and there was no problem. Abraham, the father of the bride had one charge against him, from memory it had to do with the sale of alcohol. Also; I'm descended from Henry Rolfe of Newbury, MA. Henry was a member of the original company that settled there. There were so many intermarriages in his family that I gave up trying to figure it out. While I'm at it. My 5th g-grandfather and a son appear to have married sisters, or at least they were from the same family. Charles

I dont think it was that uncommon back in the 1600's or even 1700's you had a limited number of people. I have lots of Surnames that orginate in Plymouth/hingham area and they seemed to intermarry alot. The Sprague, Hersey, Stodder/Stoddard families seem to have done it alot!! LOL Deanna

And the Barnes' family seems to continue the trend! In 1837 my ggrandparents, Albert Vinal Barnes of Hingham, MA and Miriam W. Barnes of Cohasset, MA (1st cousins) married. Priscilla > in > > Lydia (Barnes) Barnes, dau of John Barnes & Mary Bartlett married as her > first husband, Lemuel Barnes in 1735 <Plymouth VR> (who happened to be her > 1st cousin). Sometime before 1756, she married as her second husband, > Jonathan Samson, the widower of Sarah Drew, dau of Lemuel Drew & Hannah > Barnes.

> Is anyone aware of any widower who has been punished for marrying his wife's > sister or for first cousins marrying in MA in the 1600s? > References please. > > thanks, Charles __________________ I've just returned from a week in New England (and yes - Plymouth too!!) and am catching up on email. In partial answer to your question above Charles, I cover a case in my next book where a woman married the widower of her neice. She was admonished by the church but he was not. Lydia (Barnes) Barnes, dau of John Barnes & Mary Bartlett married as her first husband, Lemuel Barnes in 1735 <Plymouth VR> (who happened to be her 1st cousin). Sometime before 1756, she married as her second husband, Jonathan Samson, the widower of Sarah Drew, dau of Lemuel Drew & Hannah Barnes. The Plymouth church records of 5 July 1756 state that a committee was chosen to look into the case of "Sister Lydia Barnes it being supposed that she was married to Jonathan Samson one that had been husband to her neice". <1:302> Note that she is called "Barnes" not "Samson" which would reflect the view of the church towards the marriage. This issue does not surface again until 1769 when "Lydia Samson" requested a hearing. This record states that she was suspended from Communion many years ago. On 25 Oct. 1769, the church met and decided that although "the Members of ye Chh were, the greater Part of them, by no means satisfyd of ye Lawfulness of such a Marriage, but of the contrary Opinion, The Affair was accordingly dropd without so much as the Formallity of a Chh Meeting". I found no mention of this topic in "Crime And Punishment In Early Massachusetts" by Edwin Powers but did find the following in "Woman's Life in Colonial Days" by Carl Holliday, p.279-80: "Then, too, as late as Sewall's day we find mention of severe laws dealing with intermarriage of relatives: "June 14, 1695: The Bill against Incest was passed with the Deputies, four and twenty Nos, and seven and twenty Yeas. The Ministers gave in their Arguments yesterday, else it had hardly gon, because several have married their wives sisters, and the Deputies thought it hard to part them. 'Twas concluded on the other hand, that not to part them, were to make the Law abortive, by begetting in people a conceipt that such Marriages were not against the Law of God" <Sewall's Diary, vol.II, p.407>. Susan E. Roser www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

Subject: [PLY/MA] Re: MAPLYMOU-D Digest V03 #94 > >In a message dated 06/03/2003 7:03:48 PM, MAPLYMOU-D-request@rootsweb.com >writes: > ><< it is not correct that the marriage of >a widow to her husband's brother was legal. Both cases were incestuous. > >> > It's not my intention to incite, but I am a product of such a union and I'm also a product of 1st cousins marrying-- They're all well known in early MA--Hingham and Groton. No punishments. I've seen people fined for not attending Church, fined for not making militia muster. There is also a good tale about one of the Mayflower passengers having a duel (fistfight?) with another inhabitant at Plymouth. Is anyone aware of any widower who has been punished for marrying his wife's sister or for first cousins marrying in MA in the 1600s? References please. thanks, Charles

In a message dated 06/03/2003 7:03:48 PM, MAPLYMOU-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << it is not correct that the marriage of a widow to her husband's brother was legal. Both cases were incestuous. >> Seems strange the early church would consider it incestuous, when the Bible instructed a man to take his brother's wife as his own when the first husband died. Deuteronomy 25:5 If brothers live together and one of them dies without having a son, the dead man's wife must not remarry to a stranger, outside the family. Instead, her late husband's brother must go to her, marry her,13 and perform the duty of a brother-in-law.14 25:6 Then15 the first son16 she bears will continue the name of the17 dead brother, thus preventing his name from being blotted out of Israel. 25:7 But if the man does not want to marry his brother's widow, then she18 must go to the elders at the gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to preserve19 his brother's name in Israel; he is unwilling to perform the duty of a brother-in-law to me." 25:8 Then the elders of his city must summon him and speak to him. Carolyn Pray for our troops, and Remember, you have a friend in Oklahoma!