Speaking of names one needs help with, I have two I"m trying to find in the 1880 census. Catherine Clingen, Protestant, came from Ireland in the 1870's, and had a son, John Clingen, born in 1873. She either came alone, or came with her husband and he died, or came with her husband but he went home and died, or they all went home and then she came back, and the child is reported in our records as having been born in Ireland. However, the son's passport application says that he was born 22 July 1873 - and all other records say he was born 22 July 1873. Passport application says he was born in Hyde Park (family records say it was Hyde Park near Boston, but she and her next husband lived in Hyde Park, Norfolk County, in 1910). A family story says that she worked in sweat shop sewing shops in New York City, and worked her way up to become a top high fashion dressmaker. She married a successful man in construction, in Hyde Park, 17 June, 1882. I wonder if she wasn't either in Hyde Park the whole time, or in sweat shops in Boston. On the 1900 census, Catherine says that she didn't even immigrate until 1878. In any case, I can't find a death record for the husband at NEHGS, I can't find the birth of John Clingen at NEHGS< and I also can't find the birth of John Clingen in 1873 in Ireland civil birth records, and I can't find the death of the father in the IRish civil death records in 1872. I can't find either Catherine, born in 1848, or John, in the 1880 census. John Clingen may ahve been in the Royal Irish Constabulary, and a RIC record for John Clinger, died 1872, is consistent, but if it is the same person, he was sure alot older than his wife. Catherine started spelling her name Kate, Katelina, and Katalina, when she came to this country, and by the 1820 census it had morphed into Kathlene (Kathleen), a name that stuck in our family for the next two generations. One year the census was misindexed "Nataline". I tried searching Hyde Park, Norfolk County, which is a small place, for anyone named John born within two years of 1873, and did not find John Clingen. I wonder if anyone might possibly be able to help me find these two people in the 1880 census and the NEHGS bmd database. They may not be in the 1880 census, but John can't reasonably not be in the Massachusetts bmd database unless he wasn't born in Massachusetts, and he said on his passport application that he was. Is it at all likely that he lied on his passport application? Did he have to prove where he was born, or that he was born in this country? Thanks alot! Thanks! Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com

Why do you think Catherine came from Ireland? On the 1882 Boston marriage record, it lists that she was born in Liverpool, England, and she is age 33. (Her parents were Nathaniel and Catherine Lowe.) It does show that this is a second marriage for her. She and Frank H. Pierce went on to have a son, Alvah Henry, on Feb 28 1883. This birth record also shows she is born in England. The 1900 census, however, says she was born in Ireland in May 1848, her father was born in Ireland and her mother born in England. She says she has one child born, one living. 1900 Census also says she emigrated in 1878 and is a dressmaker. (Frank was born June 1851 in Massachusetts.) The 1910 census says she had three children, two living. This time it lists her and both parents' birthplace as Ireland. Emigration is listed as 1875. The Castle Garden records have this immigration record: MRS. C. CLINGEN UNKNOWN 28 F 22 Nov 1876 STATE OF VIRGINIA GLASGOW & LARNE IRELAND NOT AVAILABLE This sounds like your woman. So it doesn't seem like she brought her son John with her. Likely, she left the child at home to be raised in Ireland. He probably remained there until after 1900. Have you looked for the death records of her Lowe parents? Perhaps that is the location you will find the birth record for John. I think they just said John was born in the USA so that he would be an automatic citizen. But this is just a guess. You could always write to Hyde Park and ask for them to do a lookup. Susan On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Dora Smith <villandra@austin.rr.com> wrote: > Speaking of names one needs help with, I have two I"m trying to find in the > 1880 census. Catherine Clingen, Protestant, came from Ireland in the > 1870's, and had a son, John Clingen, born in 1873. She either came alone, > or came with her husband and he died, or came with her husband but he went > home and died, or they all went home and then she came back, and the child > is reported in our records as having been born in Ireland. However, the > son's passport application says that he was born 22 July 1873 - and all > other records say he was born 22 July 1873. Passport application says he > was born in Hyde Park (family records say it was Hyde Park near Boston, but > she and her next husband lived in Hyde Park, Norfolk County, in 1910). A > family story says that she worked in sweat shop sewing shops in New York > City, and worked her way up to become a top high fashion dressmaker. She > married a successful man in construction, in Hyde Park, 17 June, 1882. I > wonder if she wasn't either in Hyde Park the whole time, or in sweat shops > in Boston. On the 1900 census, Catherine says that she didn't even > immigrate until 1878. > > In any case, I can't find a death record for the husband at NEHGS, I can't > find the birth of John Clingen at NEHGS< and I also can't find the birth of > John Clingen in 1873 in Ireland civil birth records, and I can't find the > death of the father in the IRish civil death records in 1872. I can't > find > either Catherine, born in 1848, or John, in the 1880 census. John Clingen > may ahve been in the Royal Irish Constabulary, and a RIC record for John > Clinger, died 1872, is consistent, but if it is the same person, he was > sure > alot older than his wife. > > Catherine started spelling her name Kate, Katelina, and Katalina, when she > came to this country, and by the 1820 census it had morphed into Kathlene > (Kathleen), a name that stuck in our family for the next two generations. > One year the census was misindexed "Nataline". > > I tried searching Hyde Park, Norfolk County, which is a small place, for > anyone named John born within two years of 1873, and did not find John > Clingen. > > I wonder if anyone might possibly be able to help me find these two people > in the 1880 census and the NEHGS bmd database. They may not be in the 1880 > census, but John can't reasonably not be in the Massachusetts bmd database > unless he wasn't born in Massachusetts, and he said on his passport > application that he was. > > Is it at all likely that he lied on his passport application? Did he have > to prove where he was born, or that he was born in this country? > > Thanks alot! > > Thanks! > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > tiggernut24@yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------- > > NORFOLK COUNTY, MASSACHUSETTS MAILING LIST > > LIST TOPIC: The discussion and research of genealogy or history > information pertaining to Norfolk County at any point in its history. > > Contact the List Admin at manorfol-admin@rootsweb.com, or to search the > list archives or find other useful information to help you use the list more > effectively, please click on the following link to the list information page > online: > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/usa/MA/norfolk.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MANORFOL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >