I'm in Montague, if there's anything I could do for you. The John Russell Cutlery was a huge operation in Turners Falls. I have a book on it. I don't think it gives names. Sara E. Campbell, PE Consulting Civil Engineer 413-423-3581 16 Prospect Street Millers Falls, MA 01344

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/1055.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I'm realizing now Charles' occupation on his death record should probably be "cutler." (Sorry about that -- both middle letters look crossed on his death record). Elizabeth's name is inconsistant & hard to decipher on some of the records. [Female] Reum died Aug. 10, 1870 from dysentery. Age 2 yrs. & 6 mos. Born & resided in Greenfield, died in Montague. Parents Charles & Libetta born in Germany. Eliza Reum, died Aug 24, 1870 from dysentery. Age 1 yr. & 3 mos. Born, resided & died in Greenfield. Parents Charles & Elizabeth born in Germany. William Rhine born Oct., 1875 in Montague. Parents Charles & Lebethe reside in Montague & born in Germany. Father is a laborer. Hattie Reune [Henrietta?] born Apr. 3, 1879 in Montague. Parents Charles & Liebete (Kehr) reside in Montague & born in Germany. Father is in cutlery. [Female] Reum, born Dec. 3, 1881 in Montague. Parents Charles & Elizabeth (Kehr) reside in Montague & born in Germany. Father is an operative. Lucy Carrie Reum, died Oct. 15, 1882 in from canker rash. Age 10 mos. & 12 days. Born, resided & died in Montague. Parents Charles & Liebelle[?] both born in Germany. Clinton Henry Reum [Charles?] born May 22, 1883 in Montague. Parents Charles & Leabeth (Kehr) reside in Montague & born in Germany. Father is an operative. Charles H. Rhyme married Grace L. Williams on July 22, 1905 in Greenfield. Charles was an inspector, born in Montague to Charles Rhyme & Lisbeth Kehr. Grace was an operative, born in North Adams to Charles Williams & Nellie Carey. First marriage for both, both age 22 & resided in Montague. Married by Rev. W. Rademacher of Greenfield. George Reum married Elizabeth Kehr on June 19, 1867 in Greenfield. George was 24, a cutler, parents Nicholas & Margaret Reum. Elizabeth was 18, parents John & Margaret Kehr. 1st marriage for both, both born in Germany & resided in Greenfield. Marriage performed by Rev. P.A. Schwartz, clergyman. There is a marriage record listed for a William V. Reum for 1901, an Albert C. Reum in 1906, & a Henrietta E. Reum for 1909, both in Montague. These records are indexed, but the records themselves have not been put online yet.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4EB.2ACE/1055.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Thank You Amy! Yes I would certainly like to see the info you found for the Reum children. Frank

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/1055.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Definitely looks like "Nickles" on the record. I would assume that it is mispelled on the record, & should be Nicholas. I looked online and one of the German variations is "Niklaus" so perhaps whoever recorded the name just wrote it down as they heard it. There were also some records regarding the Reum's children. I can post those later, as I assume you'd want them. . .

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4EB.2ACE/1055.1.1 Message Board Post: Amy, Thank you! Is his father's name Nickles in the record? I have it as Nicholas. I appreciate your help very much. Frank

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/1055.1 Message Board Post: Charles Reum, d. Apr. 23, 1895 in Greenfield. Aged 52, married & occupation cuttery. Cause of death phthisis pulmonalis. Born in Germany to Nickles & Margaret, who were also born in Germany. (Note, the death record is in Montague, where he must have lived). I'm looking at in index which only goes to 1910. Elizabeth isn't on it, so she died after 1910. It looks like she is listed on both the 1900 & 1910 in Montague, and most likely that's where she died.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Reum Kehr Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4EB.2ACE/1055 Message Board Post: Charles Reum b.24 Jan 1843, Saxony Germany d.23 Apr 1895 Franklin County, MA- Elizabeth Reum nee Kehr b.1848 Saxony Germany d. Franklin Cty MA Greenfield, Franklin County Massachussetts Any help finding death records, naturalization records, or ships lists for Charles and ELizabeth would be greatly appreciated. Elizabeth immigrated in 1867. I'm not sure of Charles immigration date. The family name has been found in census records as Rheum, Renn, and Reum. Thanks Frank Reum

Hello to all, I am new to the list and hopefully someone out there may be able to help me trace my ancestors to the New England area of the U.S. The family that I am trying to trace is the Boyle family of Gaspé, Quebec, Canada. The first Boyle to arrive in Gaspé was James who arrived in 1789, supposedly from the Boston area of Massachusetts. He came to Gaspé with his wife Mary and children – John, George, Jane, Mary, and James. The family may have been United Empire Loyalists but I have found no records as such. Perhaps someone has a lead for me. Many Thanks, Jim

unsubscribe On Sep 16, 2006, at 7:16 PM, carolbsantos@hotmail.com wrote: > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/1053.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Massachusetts Vital Records, 1841-1910 > O'Brien John Greenfield 1858 114 304 Birth feb > 14, 1858 > O'Brien William Greenfield 1860 132 355 Birth > may 12, 1860 > O'Brien James Greenfield 1862 150 315 Birth march > 18, 1862 > O'Brien Edmund Greenfield 1866 186 296 Birth may > 3, 1866 > O'Brien Decourcy Greenfield 1867 196 297 Birth > sept 25, 1867 > All of the above born in Greenfield to James O'brien & Mary Frawley > born in Ireland > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAFRANKL- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Denio's Farmers Market and Auction is still alive and well in Roseville, CA. Here's a link to their site which has info on their history: http://www.denios.org/ I have no connection to this family. Kathy From: "Laura G." <beagenie@charter.net> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> Date sent: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 00:46:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] DENIO Genealogy Send reply to: mafrankl@rootsweb.com [ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] If anyone is interested, there was a DENIO family in Roseville, CA. Their business was a very successful auction facility, where many people rented booths to sell their goods, not ALL were commercial. Laura Dunwald ----- Original Message ----- From: <pwallred@frontiernet.net> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 9:41 PM Subject: [MAFRANKL] DENIO Genealogy >I have merged the 1st four generations for Aaron Denio in my >database. This added 1,249 descendants and 289 families. > > If you have an interest in any family members with the surname > "Denio", please forward a name and event (birth, marriage, > death)information and I will see if I have information in the > database. > > The primary source came from: A Genealogy of Aaron Denio of > Deerfield Massachusetts 1704 - 1925, by francis Brigham Denio, D.D. > and herbert Williams Denio, A. M., Published by Capital City Press, > Montpelier, Vermont, 1926. > > Additional information has come from other sources and "old" printed > genealogies. > > Regards, > Paul Allred > > > ==== MAFRANKL Mailing List ==== > Franklin County, MA Message Board > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=localities.northa > m.usa.states.massachusetts.counties.franklin > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/1053.1 Message Board Post: Massachusetts Vital Records, 1841-1910 O'Brien John Greenfield 1858 114 304 Birth feb 14, 1858 O'Brien William Greenfield 1860 132 355 Birth may 12, 1860 O'Brien James Greenfield 1862 150 315 Birth march 18, 1862 O'Brien Edmund Greenfield 1866 186 296 Birth may 3, 1866 O'Brien Decourcy Greenfield 1867 196 297 Birth sept 25, 1867 All of the above born in Greenfield to James O'brien & Mary Frawley born in Ireland

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: o´brien, boyce, scanlan, harley Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/4EB.2ACE/1053 Message Board Post: 1880 Greenfield, Franklin County, Massachusetts O´Brien family Ann, head, widow,born 1830 IRE, both parents born IRE, works in alundry Ann, daughter, born 1858 MA, etching on cutlery William, son, born 1862 MA, works in ca... shop James, son, born 1863 MA, stamping cutlery Thomas, son, born 1864 MA, works in tool shop Edmund, son,. Born 1866 MA, at school Deconicy, son, born 1867 MA, at school William married Mary A. BOYCE, born 1878 Paterson, Passaic County, New Jersey to George BOICE and Rose SCANLAN. Mary died 10 Nov 1956 in Manhattan, New York, New York. They ahd the following children, all born in Manhattan George B. , 1911, died after 1973 William J., 1909, married Rosemary HARLEY, died 18 Jan 1973 Miami, FL. Rosemary died after 1973. Rose, 11 Feb 1903, nun, died 19 Jan 1985 Manhattan, buried St. Joseph´s. Any further information on this family would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/783.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: The only mentions I could find in the NEHGS databases are: Massachusetts Vital Records, Vol. 55, page 4: At Belchertown, Mass. on Dec. 2, 1851: Asahel B. LAMSON, residing in Belchertown, age 22, farmer, b. Belchertown, son of David Lamson, first marriage, and Sarah M. Miley*, residing Hardwick, age 19, b. at Webster, no father listed., first marriage. Marriage performed by Rev. J. M. Rock(wood?) - Page is creased. Massachusetts Vital Records, Vol. 78, page 301: At Chicopee, Mass. on 11 Oct. 1854 Asahel B. LAMSON, residing in Belchertown, age 24, a farmer, born at Belchertown, son of David Lamson, second marriage, and Mary Ann BISHOP, age 17, res. and born at Belchertown, daughter of "Mala" Bishop, first marriage. Also, same date and location, George LAMSON, age 23, res. Palmer, farmer, b. Palmer, son of David Lamson, first marriage, and Susan Bishop, age 19, res. Amherst, b. Belchertown, daughter of Gamaliel Bishop, first marriage. Both these marriages performed by George A. Oviatt, pastor "Cong. Church." * Note: in the History of Hardwick, Massachusetts : with a genealogical register; Boston: Houghton, Mifflin, 1883, p. 544: this SARAH who married Asahel B. Lamson, is listed under the surname WOOD. Good luck in your search. Shari Strahan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/4EB.2ACE/783.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Do you have a Asael (many different spellings) listed he was born about 1834 in MA, was a teamster and came to Michigan with probably his 2nd wife Lucy, he died in 1889 In Negaunee, Marquette, Michigan. I know this isn't much info but as yet, this is all I have. Joan

Bonnie, Yes, I have. Been there; done that. Martha On Sep 13, 2006, at 12:40 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > Martha > Have you typed in Winchester genealogy on google? > Sure seems to be a lot of information there. > > Bonnie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> > To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:08 PM > Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > > >> Hi, Bonnie, >> Yes, I agree regarding the religious upheaval. I believe that elder >> Elhanan Winchester went through 4 conversions ending up of course as a >> Shaker. While Preacher Elhanan was alive, he like so many other >> Winchesters followed the "New Light" sect until that disintegrated. I >> believe that Elder Winchester was also a Baptist and a Methodist. I >> read one account, I think in the History of Brookline, which indicated >> that he, the Elder, was a man of few convictions and was easily >> influenced by others until he became a Shaker. Interesting but >> frustrating family! >> Martha >> On Sep 12, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >> >>> Hi Martha >>> Just another thought!! >>> How many denominations did Elder Elhanan Winchester go through? I >>> think I >>> found 4. >>> Wouldn't surprise me if your Elhanan did the same. >>> >>> That period in time was one of great religious upheaval. >>> Most religions were fighting for membership, and everyone seemed to >>> be >>> slandering the other. >>> >>> Bonnie >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:27 PM >>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Bonnie, >>>> I wish I knew who Liberty was. In my experience and in browsing >>>> through the Mass VR Liberty is generally a male. However, I did >>>> find >>>> a >>>> record somewhere (can't put my hands on it at the moment) of the >>>> marriage of a Liberty Stone (female in St. Johnsbury, Vt.) which I >>>> thought was interesting, at least regarding the time frame. One of >>>> Elhanan's children indicated on her marriage record that her >>>> mother's >>>> surname was Pierce, but since I know that is not true, I am >>>> speculating >>>> that Pierce may have been the surname of Elhanan's mother (pure >>>> speculation). Somewhere, probably on line without documentation, >>>> is a >>>> notation of a Charles Winchester marrying a Lucy Pierce who was born >>>> in >>>> 1755 and died in 1793 which was before Elhanan was born if the death >>>> record is anywhere near correct. (I wish people would indicate >>>> their >>>> sources). The given name of Lucy is of interest as Elhanan married >>>> Lucy Whittum and had a daughter Lucy or Lucia. Seems there is a >>>> possibility that his mom was also a Lucy. Could Liberty be a >>>> nickname >>>> for Lucy? >>>> I do not think that Charles would have been a shaker as the History >>>> of >>>> Rowe lists him as a member (pew seat) in the meeting house which >>>> would >>>> have been the Congregational church, probably the only church in >>>> Rowe >>>> at that time circa 1808/9. I have considered the possibility that >>>> Elhanan may have been an illegitimate child, the product of Charles' >>>> activities between marriages. >>>> I appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes two heads are better than >>>> one! >>>> Martha >>>> On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> I found the marriage record, Elhana., a 43y., farmer, s. Charles >>>>> and >>>>> Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey >>>>> A. >>>>> Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. >>>>> >>>>> Do you have any idea who Liberty was? >>>>> >>>>> Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? >>>>> >>>>> Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for >>>>> 40 >>>>> years, >>>>> and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. >>>>> Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the >>>>> details. >>>>> >>>>> Bonnie >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >>>>>> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >>>>>> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in >>>>>> Lancaster, >>>>>> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been >>>>>> found. >>>>>> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster >>>>>> in >>>>>> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as >>>>>> you >>>>>> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >>>>>> Charles >>>>>> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >>>>>> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. >>>>>> Various >>>>>> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or >>>>>> Vermont. >>>>>> His death record with information supplied by a child by his >>>>>> second >>>>>> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that >>>>>> he >>>>>> was >>>>>> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >>>>>> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >>>>>> only >>>>>> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to >>>>>> Vermont >>>>>> is >>>>>> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin >>>>>> Co., >>>>>> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me >>>>>> that >>>>>> my questions are very relevant. >>>>>> Martha >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why >>>>>>> didn't >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> the details for him? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. >>>>>>> How >>>>>>> do you >>>>>>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking >>>>>>> for. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> doing >>>>>>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that >>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I >>>>>>>> might >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or >>>>>>>> note >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>>>>>> Irene >>>>>>>> Rice!! >>>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my >>>>>>>>> library >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> Books We >>>>>>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>>>>>> help, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information >>>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", >>>>>>>>>>> NEHGS >>>>>>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in >>>>>>>>>>>> Rowe >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is >>>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or >>>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in >>>>>>>>>>>> 1824 >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in >>>>>>>>>>>> 1749. >>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read >>>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and >>>>>>>>>>>> Lucy >>>>>>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda >>>>>>>>>>>> County, >>>>>>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. >>>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she >>>>>>>>>>>> leave >>>>>>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies >>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere >>>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Martha Have you typed in Winchester genealogy on google? Sure seems to be a lot of information there. Bonnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > Hi, Bonnie, > Yes, I agree regarding the religious upheaval. I believe that elder > Elhanan Winchester went through 4 conversions ending up of course as a > Shaker. While Preacher Elhanan was alive, he like so many other > Winchesters followed the "New Light" sect until that disintegrated. I > believe that Elder Winchester was also a Baptist and a Methodist. I > read one account, I think in the History of Brookline, which indicated > that he, the Elder, was a man of few convictions and was easily > influenced by others until he became a Shaker. Interesting but > frustrating family! > Martha > On Sep 12, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > >> Hi Martha >> Just another thought!! >> How many denominations did Elder Elhanan Winchester go through? I >> think I >> found 4. >> Wouldn't surprise me if your Elhanan did the same. >> >> That period in time was one of great religious upheaval. >> Most religions were fighting for membership, and everyone seemed to be >> slandering the other. >> >> Bonnie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >> >> >>> Hi, Bonnie, >>> I wish I knew who Liberty was. In my experience and in browsing >>> through the Mass VR Liberty is generally a male. However, I did find >>> a >>> record somewhere (can't put my hands on it at the moment) of the >>> marriage of a Liberty Stone (female in St. Johnsbury, Vt.) which I >>> thought was interesting, at least regarding the time frame. One of >>> Elhanan's children indicated on her marriage record that her mother's >>> surname was Pierce, but since I know that is not true, I am >>> speculating >>> that Pierce may have been the surname of Elhanan's mother (pure >>> speculation). Somewhere, probably on line without documentation, is a >>> notation of a Charles Winchester marrying a Lucy Pierce who was born >>> in >>> 1755 and died in 1793 which was before Elhanan was born if the death >>> record is anywhere near correct. (I wish people would indicate their >>> sources). The given name of Lucy is of interest as Elhanan married >>> Lucy Whittum and had a daughter Lucy or Lucia. Seems there is a >>> possibility that his mom was also a Lucy. Could Liberty be a nickname >>> for Lucy? >>> I do not think that Charles would have been a shaker as the History of >>> Rowe lists him as a member (pew seat) in the meeting house which would >>> have been the Congregational church, probably the only church in Rowe >>> at that time circa 1808/9. I have considered the possibility that >>> Elhanan may have been an illegitimate child, the product of Charles' >>> activities between marriages. >>> I appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes two heads are better than one! >>> Martha >>> On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> I found the marriage record, Elhana., a 43y., farmer, s. Charles and >>>> Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey A. >>>> Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. >>>> >>>> Do you have any idea who Liberty was? >>>> >>>> Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? >>>> >>>> Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for 40 >>>> years, >>>> and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. >>>> Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the >>>> details. >>>> >>>> Bonnie >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>> >>>> >>>>> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >>>>> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >>>>> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in >>>>> Lancaster, >>>>> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been >>>>> found. >>>>> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster >>>>> in >>>>> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as >>>>> you >>>>> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >>>>> Charles >>>>> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >>>>> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. >>>>> Various >>>>> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or Vermont. >>>>> His death record with information supplied by a child by his second >>>>> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that he >>>>> was >>>>> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >>>>> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >>>>> only >>>>> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to Vermont >>>>> is >>>>> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin >>>>> Co., >>>>> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me >>>>> that >>>>> my questions are very relevant. >>>>> Martha >>>>> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why didn't >>>>>> you >>>>>> give >>>>>> the details for him? >>>>>> >>>>>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. >>>>>> How >>>>>> do you >>>>>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking for. >>>>>> >>>>>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you are >>>>>> doing >>>>>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that this >>>>>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting to >>>>>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>>>>> could >>>>>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I might >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did not >>>>>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or >>>>>>> note >>>>>>> it >>>>>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>>>>> Irene >>>>>>> Rice!! >>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my library >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> Books We >>>>>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>>>>> help, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information >>>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", >>>>>>>>>> NEHGS >>>>>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in >>>>>>>>>>> Rowe >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands in >>>>>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is >>>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or >>>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in 1824 >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in 1749. >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read >>>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and Lucy >>>>>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda County, >>>>>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. by >>>>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she leave >>>>>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies somewhere >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Bonnie, Yes, I agree regarding the religious upheaval. I believe that elder Elhanan Winchester went through 4 conversions ending up of course as a Shaker. While Preacher Elhanan was alive, he like so many other Winchesters followed the "New Light" sect until that disintegrated. I believe that Elder Winchester was also a Baptist and a Methodist. I read one account, I think in the History of Brookline, which indicated that he, the Elder, was a man of few convictions and was easily influenced by others until he became a Shaker. Interesting but frustrating family! Martha On Sep 12, 2006, at 10:43 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > Hi Martha > Just another thought!! > How many denominations did Elder Elhanan Winchester go through? I > think I > found 4. > Wouldn't surprise me if your Elhanan did the same. > > That period in time was one of great religious upheaval. > Most religions were fighting for membership, and everyone seemed to be > slandering the other. > > Bonnie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> > To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:27 PM > Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > > >> Hi, Bonnie, >> I wish I knew who Liberty was. In my experience and in browsing >> through the Mass VR Liberty is generally a male. However, I did find >> a >> record somewhere (can't put my hands on it at the moment) of the >> marriage of a Liberty Stone (female in St. Johnsbury, Vt.) which I >> thought was interesting, at least regarding the time frame. One of >> Elhanan's children indicated on her marriage record that her mother's >> surname was Pierce, but since I know that is not true, I am >> speculating >> that Pierce may have been the surname of Elhanan's mother (pure >> speculation). Somewhere, probably on line without documentation, is a >> notation of a Charles Winchester marrying a Lucy Pierce who was born >> in >> 1755 and died in 1793 which was before Elhanan was born if the death >> record is anywhere near correct. (I wish people would indicate their >> sources). The given name of Lucy is of interest as Elhanan married >> Lucy Whittum and had a daughter Lucy or Lucia. Seems there is a >> possibility that his mom was also a Lucy. Could Liberty be a nickname >> for Lucy? >> I do not think that Charles would have been a shaker as the History of >> Rowe lists him as a member (pew seat) in the meeting house which would >> have been the Congregational church, probably the only church in Rowe >> at that time circa 1808/9. I have considered the possibility that >> Elhanan may have been an illegitimate child, the product of Charles' >> activities between marriages. >> I appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes two heads are better than one! >> Martha >> On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >> >>> Hi >>> I found the marriage record, Elhana., a 43y., farmer, s. Charles and >>> Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey A. >>> Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. >>> >>> Do you have any idea who Liberty was? >>> >>> Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? >>> >>> Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for 40 >>> years, >>> and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. >>> Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the >>> details. >>> >>> Bonnie >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM >>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>> >>> >>>> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >>>> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >>>> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in >>>> Lancaster, >>>> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been >>>> found. >>>> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster >>>> in >>>> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as >>>> you >>>> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >>>> Charles >>>> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >>>> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. >>>> Various >>>> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or Vermont. >>>> His death record with information supplied by a child by his second >>>> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that he >>>> was >>>> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >>>> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >>>> only >>>> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to Vermont >>>> is >>>> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin >>>> Co., >>>> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me >>>> that >>>> my questions are very relevant. >>>> Martha >>>> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>> >>>>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why didn't >>>>> you >>>>> give >>>>> the details for him? >>>>> >>>>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. >>>>> How >>>>> do you >>>>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking for. >>>>> >>>>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you are >>>>> doing >>>>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>>>> >>>>> Bonnie >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that this >>>>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting to >>>>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>>>> could >>>>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I might >>>>>> have >>>>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did not >>>>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or >>>>>> note >>>>>> it >>>>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>>>> Irene >>>>>> Rice!! >>>>>> Martha >>>>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my library >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> Books We >>>>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>>>> help, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", >>>>>>>>> NEHGS >>>>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in >>>>>>>>>> Rowe >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands in >>>>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is >>>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or >>>>>>>>>> his >>>>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in 1824 >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in 1749. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read >>>>>>>>>> various >>>>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and Lucy >>>>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda County, >>>>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. by >>>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she leave >>>>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies somewhere >>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Martha Just another thought!! How many denominations did Elder Elhanan Winchester go through? I think I found 4. Wouldn't surprise me if your Elhanan did the same. That period in time was one of great religious upheaval. Most religions were fighting for membership, and everyone seemed to be slandering the other. Bonnie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > Hi, Bonnie, > I wish I knew who Liberty was. In my experience and in browsing > through the Mass VR Liberty is generally a male. However, I did find a > record somewhere (can't put my hands on it at the moment) of the > marriage of a Liberty Stone (female in St. Johnsbury, Vt.) which I > thought was interesting, at least regarding the time frame. One of > Elhanan's children indicated on her marriage record that her mother's > surname was Pierce, but since I know that is not true, I am speculating > that Pierce may have been the surname of Elhanan's mother (pure > speculation). Somewhere, probably on line without documentation, is a > notation of a Charles Winchester marrying a Lucy Pierce who was born in > 1755 and died in 1793 which was before Elhanan was born if the death > record is anywhere near correct. (I wish people would indicate their > sources). The given name of Lucy is of interest as Elhanan married > Lucy Whittum and had a daughter Lucy or Lucia. Seems there is a > possibility that his mom was also a Lucy. Could Liberty be a nickname > for Lucy? > I do not think that Charles would have been a shaker as the History of > Rowe lists him as a member (pew seat) in the meeting house which would > have been the Congregational church, probably the only church in Rowe > at that time circa 1808/9. I have considered the possibility that > Elhanan may have been an illegitimate child, the product of Charles' > activities between marriages. > I appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes two heads are better than one! > Martha > On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > >> Hi >> I found the marriage record, Elhana., a 43y., farmer, s. Charles and >> Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey A. >> Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. >> >> Do you have any idea who Liberty was? >> >> Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? >> >> Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for 40 >> years, >> and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. >> Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the >> details. >> >> Bonnie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >> >> >>> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >>> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >>> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in Lancaster, >>> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been found. >>> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster in >>> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as you >>> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >>> Charles >>> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >>> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. Various >>> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or Vermont. >>> His death record with information supplied by a child by his second >>> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that he >>> was >>> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >>> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >>> only >>> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to Vermont >>> is >>> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin Co., >>> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me that >>> my questions are very relevant. >>> Martha >>> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>> >>>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why didn't >>>> you >>>> give >>>> the details for him? >>>> >>>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. How >>>> do you >>>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking for. >>>> >>>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you are >>>> doing >>>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>>> >>>> Bonnie >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>> >>>> >>>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that this >>>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting to >>>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>>> could >>>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I might >>>>> have >>>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did not >>>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or note >>>>> it >>>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>>> Irene >>>>> Rice!! >>>>> Martha >>>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my library on >>>>>> Books We >>>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>>> help, >>>>>> and >>>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information about >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", NEHGS >>>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in Rowe >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands in >>>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, and >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is found >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or his >>>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in 1824 in >>>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in 1749. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read various >>>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and Lucy >>>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda County, >>>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. by >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she leave >>>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies somewhere >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good idea. Winthrop was his middle name. It would seem probable that there might have been a Winthrop, perhaps on the distaff side of his lineage. However, there seems to be a tendency in the Winchester family as well as many others to name children after living or past presidents and other noteworthy people. Ergo, lots of Winchesters as well has others named their children Elhanan after the Universalist preacher of some fame at that time. For some time I thought my Elhanan might have been so descended, but could not make that connection so am back with trying to explore the Charles and Liberty clue. Martha On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > If his name is Winthrop > Don't you think that your should seek out the other Winthrop's? > There are many withrop sites, and descendants. > Maybe you should got there. > Bonnie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bonnie Weber" <bonnie.travel@sympatico.ca> > To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:25 AM > Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > > >> Hi >> I found the marriage record, Elhanan widr., a 43y., farmer, s. >> Charles and >> Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey A. >> Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. >> >> Do you have any idea who Liberty was? >> >> Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? >> >> Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for 40 >> years, >> and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. >> Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the >> details. >> >> Bonnie >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >> >> >>> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >>> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >>> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in Lancaster, >>> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been >>> found. >>> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster in >>> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as >>> you >>> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >>> Charles >>> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >>> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. Various >>> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or Vermont. >>> His death record with information supplied by a child by his second >>> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that he >>> was >>> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >>> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >>> only >>> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to Vermont >>> is >>> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin >>> Co., >>> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me that >>> my questions are very relevant. >>> Martha >>> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>> >>>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why didn't >>>> you >>>> give >>>> the details for him? >>>> >>>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. How >>>> do you >>>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking for. >>>> >>>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you are >>>> doing >>>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>>> >>>> Bonnie >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>> >>>> >>>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that this >>>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting to >>>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>>> could >>>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I might >>>>> have >>>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did not >>>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or >>>>> note it >>>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>>> Irene >>>>> Rice!! >>>>> Martha >>>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my library >>>>>> on >>>>>> Books We >>>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>>> help, >>>>>> and >>>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information about >>>>>>> his >>>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>>> Martha >>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", NEHGS >>>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in Rowe >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands in >>>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is >>>>>>>>> found >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or his >>>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in 1824 >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in 1749. >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read various >>>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and Lucy >>>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda County, >>>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. by >>>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she leave >>>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies somewhere >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi, Bonnie, I wish I knew who Liberty was. In my experience and in browsing through the Mass VR Liberty is generally a male. However, I did find a record somewhere (can't put my hands on it at the moment) of the marriage of a Liberty Stone (female in St. Johnsbury, Vt.) which I thought was interesting, at least regarding the time frame. One of Elhanan's children indicated on her marriage record that her mother's surname was Pierce, but since I know that is not true, I am speculating that Pierce may have been the surname of Elhanan's mother (pure speculation). Somewhere, probably on line without documentation, is a notation of a Charles Winchester marrying a Lucy Pierce who was born in 1755 and died in 1793 which was before Elhanan was born if the death record is anywhere near correct. (I wish people would indicate their sources). The given name of Lucy is of interest as Elhanan married Lucy Whittum and had a daughter Lucy or Lucia. Seems there is a possibility that his mom was also a Lucy. Could Liberty be a nickname for Lucy? I do not think that Charles would have been a shaker as the History of Rowe lists him as a member (pew seat) in the meeting house which would have been the Congregational church, probably the only church in Rowe at that time circa 1808/9. I have considered the possibility that Elhanan may have been an illegitimate child, the product of Charles' activities between marriages. I appreciate your thoughts. Sometimes two heads are better than one! Martha On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:25 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: > Hi > I found the marriage record, Elhana., a 43y., farmer, s. Charles and > Liberty, and Priscilla Flynn, wid., a 39 y., d. Ezekiel and Betsey A. > Wentworth, Aug. 1, 1847. > > Do you have any idea who Liberty was? > > Also, he was of the shaker religion, have you looked into that? > > Sorry if I am driving you nuts, but I have been a genealogist for 40 > years, > and believe that you can never leave a leaf unturned. > Assumptions just don't catch my interest. Thank you for giving the > details. > > Bonnie > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> > To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 AM > Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester > > >> I know that my Elhanan Winthrop Winchester was born Nov. 10, 1803 >> according to his gravestone in a Lowell Cemetery. He died Jan. 1, >> 1879. He was "married" to Lucy Whittum, and they lived in Lancaster, >> NH and had 5 children. A marriage record for them has not been found. >> Many Lancaster records were destroyed by fire. He left Lancaster in >> about 1847 and married Priscilla Wentworth Flynn in Chelmsford as you >> mentioned. That marriage record is where the information about >> Charles >> comes from. By process of elimination I have narrowed the >> possibilities down to the Charles who was born in Brookline. Various >> records indicate that Elhanan was born in New Hampshire or Vermont. >> His death record with information supplied by a child by his second >> marriage who may not have been too knowledgeable indicates that he >> was >> born in Springfield, Vt. I have checked the vital records of >> Springfield and all surrounding towns and have found nothing. The >> only >> Charles Winchester living during that time frame who went to Vermont >> is >> Charles of Brookline. The migratory path takes him from Franklin Co., >> Mass. to Bennington, Vt. That is about all I know. Seems to me that >> my questions are very relevant. >> Martha >> On Sep 10, 2006, at 1:39 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >> >>> If you are looking for a different Elhanan, born later, why didn't >>> you >>> give >>> the details for him? >>> >>> There were a lot of Winchesters, from NH as well as MA, and CT. How >>> do you >>> know that Charles may be the father of the one you are looking for. >>> >>> Usually people ask relevent questions, and I can't see that you are >>> doing >>> that. Normally people list what they know, not what they assume. >>> >>> Bonnie >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:38 PM >>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>> >>> >>>> You will note in my original post, but I am speculating that this >>>> Charles was the father of my ancestor Elhanan and am attempting to >>>> link these two generations not the ones that came before. If I >>>> could >>>> identify all of the wives of this Charles and his children I might >>>> have >>>> the answer to the puzzle. You will note that my question did not >>>> pertain to Charles' lineage but rather pertained to whether or note >>>> it >>>> is this Charles who was first married to Lucy Upton and then to >>>> Irene >>>> Rice!! >>>> Martha >>>> On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:38 AM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>> >>>>> If you had this info, why did you allude to Elhanan? >>>>> >>>>> I do a lot of look ups for people, and am listed with my library on >>>>> Books We >>>>> Own, but I do get a bit miffed when I spend my time looking to >>>>> help, >>>>> and >>>>> have not been told the truth. >>>>> >>>>> Bonnie >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>> To: <mafrankl@rootsweb.com> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:38 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Bonnie, >>>>>> Yes, I have that information. I am looking for information about >>>>>> his >>>>>> first wife. He was 60 years old when he married Irena Rice! >>>>>> Martha >>>>>> On Sep 8, 2006, at 1:09 PM, Bonnie Weber wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Martha >>>>>>> Your Charles was the son of Isaac Winchester, m Irene?, >>>>>>> b 14 Jan 1749, his descent is John, John, John, Isaac. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He is listed in the book "Descendants of John Winchester", NEHGS >>>>>>> vol. >>>>>>> 78, >>>>>>> pages 18-19. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bonnie >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "MARTHA ALTEMUS" <maltemus2@verizon.net> >>>>>>> To: <MAFRANKL-L@rootsweb.com> >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:23 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [MAFRANKL] Charles Winchester >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello everyone, >>>>>>>> My brick wall is Charles Winchester who lived variously in Rowe >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> believe Charlemont although I have read that he owned lands in >>>>>>>> Warwick >>>>>>>> until about 1814 after which he relocated to Vermont. His >>>>>>>> intentions >>>>>>>> to marry Rene (Irena) Rice are recorded in Buckland in 1808, and >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> were married in 1809, but I know not where. In 1810 he is found >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> Rowe census with four children indicating that either he or his >>>>>>>> wife >>>>>>>> had children at home by a previous marriage. He died in 1824 in >>>>>>>> Bennington Vt. after having applied for a Revolutionary War >>>>>>>> pension. >>>>>>>> This is the Charles Winchester born in Brookline Mass in 1749. >>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> believe that it is this Charles who was the father of my >>>>>>>> ancestor >>>>>>>> Elhanan Winchester by an earlier marriage. I have read various >>>>>>>> sources >>>>>>>> which indicate a marriage between Charles Winchester and Lucy >>>>>>>> Upton >>>>>>>> bpt. Mar. 13,1763 who reportedly died in Rome, Oeinda County, >>>>>>>> New >>>>>>>> York >>>>>>>> per the Descendants of John Upton of North Reading, Mass. by >>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> Adams Vinton. If this is the same Charles, when did she leave >>>>>>>> him, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> were there any children? >>>>>>>> Any help in determining who his earlier wife was would be >>>>>>>> greatly >>>>>>>> appreciated. Seems clear to me that the answer lies somewhere >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> Franklin County. >>>>>>>> Martha Altemus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>>> the >>>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAFRANKL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >