Hi John, Thank you for writing... as this discussion, even though surname specific, is one that all of us need to look at and consider.*S* ----------------- Re: [MADKY-L] Researching RICE in very early KY Hi Lisa, I have had my DNA tested to 24 loci and I am a group 4 Southern Rice. I have good documentation back to the Charles Rice that died in Madison County in 1809. That is why I am so interested in him. The problem is that all the documentation I can find says that Charles was the son of Peter Rice from the Edmund Rice line. Obviously this doesn't work if I am a Group 4 Rice. Do you have any clue about the Group 4 Rices in Madison County and where they came from. John Rice ------------------- As to your question...regarding the origin of RICE DNA Group #4. In going over my notes...I find that RICE groups 4 - 5 - 7 and 13 were very early in KY. I had left #5 out in my previous post ...as I had forgotten that this line had also been identified as in KY. Something that I wish to correct now. So a minimum of FOUR lines. All very...separate. It might also be reasonable to figure we're going to find more but at this time...I have no idea what the 'final' outcome will be. The information for the history-origin for your Group 4...would best be found in the DNA reports that Martha has posted on RICE-SOUTHERN, and I usually keep those rootsweb digests handy enough to find info, but this time I don't seem to have the latest report within reach. Martha 'usually' uses the title...Latest DNA Report...which should come up if you search the archives for [email protected] These reports list the groups, a short definition for the furthest back proven or known ancestor, and if a connection at a given point. I'll keep looking thru my files...for the last RICE DNA report...and if I find it...I'll send it along to you.*S* Now that we know of the DNA results, with no match at all between 4 and 13, it would seem fair to figure that their similar migration history has something to do with it. Possibly an earlier generation ...knowing the migration pattern...just simply thought there was a connection. With that said...I'm going to take a stab...and figure the origin for your Group #4...was probably VA and not MA. *S* Specifically my suggestion is to look towards...Goochland Co. VA. It is my understanding that RICE Group #4 may have been in the Goochland Co. VA area...just prior to arriving in KY. My memory, which sometimes is faulty, had the following as #4: http://userweb.suscom.net/~therices/index.htm In my double checking...this one is Group 7, but having this info will help you to sort out which early KY...RICE line...is which. As you have now discovered...earlier research, or family traditions, weren't always correct. Much of this confusion is simply because earlier kinfolk...just assumed...that if the surname matched that it meant they were cousins. There were others...who because the surname matched, and wanting to spice up their family trees with famous persons, just made certain claims. This worked for many and for a long time...simply because to disprove it was beyond most of those who heard the story. For many years...my own family lines...assumed that those with close naming patterns just had to be kin. Some of that was true. However, if that were completely true... then your 4 would be kin to my line's 13. Sad to say...we're not. Where paper trails, and family traditions, fail us...we now have science and DNA...to help point out where we are incorrect. This will now, if nothing else, shove us all into looking for the evidence...for the correct story. I know it has for my lines. *S* Here's hoping that I've been of some assistance to you, Lisa ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/311 - Release Date: 4/13/2006