Hi, John, The other Luddington family site, managed so ably by Fred Jones for so long, was accidentally deleted and now we have a new one. You do need a new user name and password. I will send you an invite ASAP tonight or tomorrow morning...but I need to know your last name. I can guess that it is Lister but I am not certain and the site requires that a last name be used in the invite. Hope to hear from you and anybody else that wants an invite quickly. Elaine and Rachel

Hi Elaine I tried replying to both Rachel's e-mail address & your address, but the e-mails bounced back to me. I was wondering what happened to the other Ludington Family site and the items that it contained. If it is a new site and we need a new password, can I get one? Thanks, John Milwaukee, WI. jlister3@wi.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dek623@aol.com> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:27 AM Subject: [LUDDINGTON] Luddington/Ludington site at MyFamily.com > Good morning, all, > > _www.luddington.myfamily.com_ (http://www.luddington.myfamily.com) has > been > up and running since Saturday morning but very few of those that requested > "invites" have visited. I am wondering if there is a problem with the > link > with password. Are you having a problem accessing the site or is just > that you > have not had time to check it out yet? > > Both Rachel and I expect to maintain this site for a very long time and > will > continually work to enhance the data stored at the site. We hope that > many > of you will visit and add your Lud documentation. The more that is > added, > the better this site will be as a research source for Lud puzzles. > > Please feel free to contact either of us regarding anything about the > site, > you want an invite, help with uploading data, questions, but try to email > us > directly. Rachel can be reached at _Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net_ > (mailto:Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net) and I can be reached at > _DEK623@aol.com_ > (mailto:DEK623@aol.com) > > We look forward to seeing you there, > Elaine > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Wow, I was up the other night till 2:00 A.M. at that my family site and I got to tell you, it was really neat the pictures and stuff you all have put on there. It was very interesting and I enjoyed it. I'll be checking it out regular!! I just wished I had something even a fraction worth listing like the cup of Col. Henry's or the great documents I was reading. I was always proud of being a Ludington but with all the people I've met and the ones I've been learning about, even more so. Great job on the web site all that have worked on it. Thanks, James J. Ludington Dek623@aol.com wrote: Hi, John, The other Luddington family site, managed so ably by Fred Jones for so long, was accidentally deleted and now we have a new one. You do need a new user name and password. I will send you an invite ASAP tonight or tomorrow morning...but I need to know your last name. I can guess that it is Lister but I am not certain and the site requires that a last name be used in the invite. Hope to hear from you and anybody else that wants an invite quickly. Elaine and Rachel ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

I'm Ernest Ludington from Oregon, my email is e_lud at yahoo.com. my line is from Comfort/Thomas/Asahel/Milton/Oliver/Jesse/Valdon --- JAMES LUDINGTON <jlud@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Dear Rachel and Elaine, I tried to email both of you > from the link on this email and they both came back > undeliverable. I was wondering if I could get a > password to get to the my family.com? Thanks James > Joseph Ludington, (JJB) > > Ed Solomon / Alice Ludington > <deluxereverb@comcast.net> wrote: I'd like an > invite. I have some scans I'd like to upload. > > Send it to my personal email addy: > superreverb@comcast.net > > Thanks! > > Ed and Alice > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:27 AM > Subject: [LUDDINGTON] Luddington/Ludington site at > MyFamily.com > > > > Good morning, all, > > > > _www.luddington.myfamily.com_ > (http://www.luddington.myfamily.com) has > been > > up and running since Saturday morning but very few > of those that requested > > "invites" have visited. I am wondering if there is > a problem with the > link > > with password. Are you having a problem accessing > the site or is just > that you > > have not had time to check it out yet? > > > > Both Rachel and I expect to maintain this site for > a very long time and > will > > continually work to enhance the data stored at the > site. We hope that > many > > of you will visit and add your Lud documentation. > The more that is > added, > > the better this site will be as a research source > for Lud puzzles. > > > > Please feel free to contact either of us regarding > anything about the > site, > > you want an invite, help with uploading data, > questions, but try to email > us > > directly. Rachel can be reached at > _Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net_ > > (mailto:Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net) and I can > be reached at > _DEK623@aol.com_ > > (mailto:DEK623@aol.com) > > > > We look forward to seeing you there, > > Elaine > > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million > records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the > world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and > search for your ancestors at the same time. Share > your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and > search for your ancestors at the same time. Share > your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

I'm Ernest Ludington from Oregon, my email is e_lud at yahoo.com. my line is from Comfort/Thomas/Asahel/Milton/Oliver/Jesse/Valdon --- JAMES LUDINGTON <jlud@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Dear Rachel and Elaine, I tried to email both of you > from the link on this email and they both came back > undeliverable. I was wondering if I could get a > password to get to the my family.com? Thanks James > Joseph Ludington, (JJB) > > Ed Solomon / Alice Ludington > <deluxereverb@comcast.net> wrote: I'd like an > invite. I have some scans I'd like to upload. > > Send it to my personal email addy: > superreverb@comcast.net > > Thanks! > > Ed and Alice > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:27 AM > Subject: [LUDDINGTON] Luddington/Ludington site at > MyFamily.com > > > > Good morning, all, > > > > _www.luddington.myfamily.com_ > (http://www.luddington.myfamily.com) has > been > > up and running since Saturday morning but very few > of those that requested > > "invites" have visited. I am wondering if there is > a problem with the > link > > with password. Are you having a problem accessing > the site or is just > that you > > have not had time to check it out yet? > > > > Both Rachel and I expect to maintain this site for > a very long time and > will > > continually work to enhance the data stored at the > site. We hope that > many > > of you will visit and add your Lud documentation. > The more that is > added, > > the better this site will be as a research source > for Lud puzzles. > > > > Please feel free to contact either of us regarding > anything about the > site, > > you want an invite, help with uploading data, > questions, but try to email > us > > directly. Rachel can be reached at > _Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net_ > > (mailto:Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net) and I can > be reached at > _DEK623@aol.com_ > > (mailto:DEK623@aol.com) > > > > We look forward to seeing you there, > > Elaine > > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million > records added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the > world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and > search for your ancestors at the same time. Share > your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and > search for your ancestors at the same time. Share > your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Sailboat decided not to sub on the list at this time. They are going to wait until they get back home and can manage their email better. Karen

Fred, I mailed one to you immediately....I wondered why you had not checked in....I will send you the user name and password assigned by MyFamily.com to your email address right now. If you do not receive it, please let me know. Elaine

Hi folks, I still have not received my password for the family site. Could I get one please Fred Jones

Good morning to both of you, Sorry about the link not working but I will get an invite out to you immediately this morning. Rachel and I hope that this site will become a very good resource for Lud research and welcome all the uploads you have to share. If it is not photos, it will probably go into the filing cabinet...if you do not see a category already assigned that fits your data, feel free to make a new one. Elaine

I Love You Dad What can you say to someone who has always been One of the most essential parts of your world, Someone who took you by the hand when you were little and helped to show the way? What do you say to someone who stood by to help you grow Providing love, strength and support So you could become the person you are today? What can you say to let him know that he's the best there is And that you hope you've inherited some of his wisdom and his strength? What words would you say if you ever got the chance? Maybe you just say, I love you Dad And hope he understands. A Father Just Like You I just want to let you know You mean the world to me Only a heart as dear as yours Would give so unselfishly The many things you've done All the times that you were there Help me know deep down inside How much you really care Even though I might not say I appreciate all you do Richly blessed is how I feel Having a Father just like you _______________________________________________________________________ I Love you JJB...your daughter, Jodi Lynn --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO STUDY THE INFO FROM JJB ON CLINTON CO, IND BUT DON'T SEE ANYTHING YET THAT SHEDS ANY LIGHT ON ABNER, OTHER THAN HE WAS DEFINITELY MARRIED TO ANN HOLDCRAFT. I HAVE HAD A LOT OF BABYSITTING GRANDKIDS SO SHORT ON TIME THIS SUMMER BUT HOPEFULLY WILL GET BACK TO NORMAL SOON. I DID GET MY PASSWORD, THOUGH. THANKS IF SUSAN ROSS, OR SAILBOAT, IS ON, PLEASE MEET JAMES LUDINGTON IN INDIANA, (JASONVILLE),WHO COMES THROUGH DAVID AND HIS SECOND WIFE, WHOM HE MARRIED WHEN HE WAS IN HIS OLD AGE AND FATHERED A SECOND FAMILY WITH HER. YOU WOULD BOTH BE THROUGH DAVID, AS JAMES IS THROUGH GEORGE, SON OF DAVID AND HIS SECOND WIFE. DOTTIE

I'd like an invite. I have some scans I'd like to upload. Send it to my personal email addy: superreverb@comcast.net Thanks! Ed and Alice ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dek623@aol.com> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: [LUDDINGTON] Luddington/Ludington site at MyFamily.com > Good morning, all, > > _www.luddington.myfamily.com_ (http://www.luddington.myfamily.com) has been > up and running since Saturday morning but very few of those that requested > "invites" have visited. I am wondering if there is a problem with the link > with password. Are you having a problem accessing the site or is just that you > have not had time to check it out yet? > > Both Rachel and I expect to maintain this site for a very long time and will > continually work to enhance the data stored at the site. We hope that many > of you will visit and add your Lud documentation. The more that is added, > the better this site will be as a research source for Lud puzzles. > > Please feel free to contact either of us regarding anything about the site, > you want an invite, help with uploading data, questions, but try to email us > directly. Rachel can be reached at _Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net_ > (mailto:Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net) and I can be reached at _DEK623@aol.com_ > (mailto:DEK623@aol.com) > > We look forward to seeing you there, > Elaine > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi Dottie, is Sailboat from Davids line also? We are going to make another trip to Clinton County Indiana when we get a chance because the archives was closed the day we went and I know there is much more there to find. JJB OLSONDOT@aol.com wrote: OH, WHAT GREAT NEWS. SHE WILL BE SURPRISED TO HEAR ABOUT JJB AND THE DAVID LINE, I AM SURE. ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington ============================== Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx

Dear Rachel and Elaine, I tried to email both of you from the link on this email and they both came back undeliverable. I was wondering if I could get a password to get to the my family.com? Thanks James Joseph Ludington, (JJB) Ed Solomon / Alice Ludington <deluxereverb@comcast.net> wrote: I'd like an invite. I have some scans I'd like to upload. Send it to my personal email addy: superreverb@comcast.net Thanks! Ed and Alice ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: [LUDDINGTON] Luddington/Ludington site at MyFamily.com > Good morning, all, > > _www.luddington.myfamily.com_ (http://www.luddington.myfamily.com) has been > up and running since Saturday morning but very few of those that requested > "invites" have visited. I am wondering if there is a problem with the link > with password. Are you having a problem accessing the site or is just that you > have not had time to check it out yet? > > Both Rachel and I expect to maintain this site for a very long time and will > continually work to enhance the data stored at the site. We hope that many > of you will visit and add your Lud documentation. The more that is added, > the better this site will be as a research source for Lud puzzles. > > Please feel free to contact either of us regarding anything about the site, > you want an invite, help with uploading data, questions, but try to email us > directly. Rachel can be reached at _Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net_ > (mailto:Bryan.Rachel@worldnet.att.net) and I can be reached at _DEK623@aol.com_ > (mailto:DEK623@aol.com) > > We look forward to seeing you there, > Elaine > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

Here it is for whoever wants it. Mildred I don't know the exact date but part of the dateline (1966) shows on the reverse side of this. Small coincidences - This man was a guest at the Greenbrier Hotel in White Sulphur Springs, WV in 1948. I was a front office cashier during the 1st year the hotel reopened after the war. At that time I was not into genealogy - just interested because of the name. Also the Military Air Transport Service evolved into the Military Airlift Command which was a part of the Military Traffic Management Service where my husband (Harry) and I both worked. Harry was known as Mr. MTMS. N.S. Ludington, Airline Founder Gladwyne, PA (AP) Funeral services were to be held today for Nicholas Saltus Ludington Sr., 61 founder of the former Ludington Airlines. He died Saturday at his winter home in Key West, Fla. In the early 1930s. Ludington and his brother, Charles, founded Ludington Airlines, the first airline to have regularly scheduled flights from Philadelphia to New York and Washington, D.C. It later merged with Eastern Airlines. Later, Ludington became a partner in a real estate firm in Philadelphia. During World War II, he served as a commander in the Navy and after the war was a special assistant to Secretary of Defense James V. Forrestal. Ludington received a presidential citation for his work with the Military Air Transport Service.

Thanks Ron, This is not likely my line, but I will have a look Ardella ----- Original Message ----- From: "ron ludington" <ronlud@execulink.com> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:27 AM Subject: Re: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington > Hi Ardella.........Nicholas is from the Philly PA /NYC /Putnam Co NY, > Luds. He was a g/g/g/grandson of Col Henry, father of Sybil. > Nich/Nich/Chas/Chas/Lewis/Col Henry. > > Ron > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ardella" <ardella@ns.sympatico.ca> > To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:38 AM > Subject: Re: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington > > >> Mildred >> >> I do not see this Lud in my database, however I wouldn't mind having a >> copy to see if he fits somewhere, >> thanks, Ardella >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <BUS87BUS@aol.com> >> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:39 PM >> Subject: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington >> >> >>>I have the obituary for Nicholas Saltus Lud taken from the Washington >>>Post in >>> 1966. If you would like to have it, I will send the newspaper copy or >>> will >>> send it e-mail. Mildred >>> >>> >>> ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== >>> Visit the new Luddington Message Board at >>> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington >>> >>> ============================== >>> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >>> ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. >>> Learn more: >>> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >>> >> >> >> >> ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== >> Visit the new Luddington Message Board at >> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >> >> > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Hi Ardella.........Nicholas is from the Philly PA /NYC /Putnam Co NY, Luds. He was a g/g/g/grandson of Col Henry, father of Sybil. Nich/Nich/Chas/Chas/Lewis/Col Henry. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ardella" <ardella@ns.sympatico.ca> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington > Mildred > > I do not see this Lud in my database, however I wouldn't mind having a > copy to see if he fits somewhere, > thanks, Ardella > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BUS87BUS@aol.com> > To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:39 PM > Subject: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington > > >>I have the obituary for Nicholas Saltus Lud taken from the Washington Post >>in >> 1966. If you would like to have it, I will send the newspaper copy or >> will >> send it e-mail. Mildred >> >> >> ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== >> Visit the new Luddington Message Board at >> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington >> >> ============================== >> New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your >> ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. >> Learn more: >> http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >> > > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Send acopy to Ron if you can. I have it from the Philly Inquier but want to compare. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: <BUS87BUS@aol.com> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:39 PM Subject: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington >I have the obituary for Nicholas Saltus Lud taken from the Washington Post >in > 1966. If you would like to have it, I will send the newspaper copy or will > send it e-mail. Mildred

Mildred I do not see this Lud in my database, however I wouldn't mind having a copy to see if he fits somewhere, thanks, Ardella ----- Original Message ----- From: <BUS87BUS@aol.com> To: <LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:39 PM Subject: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington >I have the obituary for Nicholas Saltus Lud taken from the Washington Post >in > 1966. If you would like to have it, I will send the newspaper copy or will > send it e-mail. Mildred > > > ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== > Visit the new Luddington Message Board at > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors > at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: > http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 >

Thanks Mildred, If you email it to me, I'll put it up on the site. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: BUS87BUS@aol.com [mailto:BUS87BUS@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:40 PM To: LUDDINGTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [LUDDINGTON] obit-N.S. Ludington I have the obituary for Nicholas Saltus Lud taken from the Washington Post in 1966. If you would like to have it, I will send the newspaper copy or will send it e-mail. Mildred ==== LUDDINGTON Mailing List ==== Visit the new Luddington Message Board at http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=surnames.luddington ============================== New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&ta rgetid=5429