Joel: I also don't think Catherine would have died in 1750 and I think Delores post today adeptly handles the issue. I quoted that section (the dates etc) from an earlier post but keep forgetting to properly document when I send to the list which creates confusion. I was mainly interested in the statement that she and Martin married in Berks in 1745 which seems well within the realm of possibility but again as Delores says there is apparently no proof and there is still a possibility that there was some mixup of the two Pennsylvania Martin Loys or a mixup of Bucks and Berks. If Martin Loy were ever proven to have been in Berks that would be interesting though what if anything it would imply would depend on where and when. What I was really trying to do was to see what could be found in that post that was new or interesting and also to emphasize that Martin appears (to me) to have not stayed in Pennsylvania long but moved, possibly to Maryland and Virginia on his way to North Carolina. Also that there is at least some ividence that the Martin in Virginia, whether he be te one who eventually settled in North Carolina or not, appears to have had a relative Stephen or Steven who was apparently a Palatine (he was Naturalized at Staunton), a tanner and fairly litigious and about who relatively little research has as yet been done. My foray in the the Martin Loy history stems from the fact that there is so little primary historical in the first generation of any one Loy branch (with the possible exception of that of John George of Maryland) that I have come to the conclusion that is probably necessary to look at them all and hope to find correlation of some kind. I regret the way the posting was not clear and hope I did not lead to confusion. The Virginia information is taken direct from a transcription of Chalkey's and, aside from the fact that he apparently cut pieces from the general record, should be accurate. It is clear in at least one case that there was more on the Martin Loy who lived in Virginia but that to get it one must peruse the original records. Grady ----- Original Message ----- ??? : "Joel S. Russell" <jsruss@mindspring.com> ?? : <LOY-L@rootsweb.com> ???? : Saturday, July 07, 2001 9:58 ?? : Re: [LOY] Re: Loy Family > Grady, > > Thanks for the wonderful post. It contained much information I didn't > have. I do have a question though. You stated that Catherreny Faust died > 1750, however Martin's will dated 15 Jul 1777 states > > "...to my beloved wife Catheriney, I give all my moveable estate during her > widowhood and to live on the place, and after her decease the land and > plantation beongs to my son Henry Loy....." > > Did Martin have two wives named Catherine or is the 1750 death date you > have in error? > > Joel > > At 03:29 PM 7/7/2001, you wrote: > >I am still on and was thiunking of writing you about a post a few days ago. > >My address is changed > > > >rgcatron@polka.plala.or.jp > > > >Since I am writing I wanted to ask about the early information for Martin > >Loy. One particulzr thing that interested me was the following part - > >: > > > > 1 Martin Leeye Loy b: 1700 d: 1779 in Orange Co NC > >.. +Catherreny Faust b: 1722 in Orange Co., NC m: 1745 in Berks, PA > >d: 1750 in St. Asaph's Dist., Orange, NC bur Stoners Church Alamance NC > >.. 2 George Loy b: 1743 in Bucks Co., PA > > d: 1799 in Orange County, NC > >...... +Mary Elizabeth Tilmon/ Tilghman ? > > d: in Orange County, North Carolina > > > >Caherreny Faust probably was not born Orange County 1722 but if the person > >compiling her records did not know otherwise they might in fairness say she > >was of Orange County. Orange County was settled by Germans, Scotch Irish > >and English largely coming down from Maryland (Most of the Germans entered > >the US Pennsylvania ca 1725 - 1765 and migrated through Frederick MD, the > >Great Valley (Shenendoah) and on into North Carolina. An important eevent > >in 1761 seems to have been that Lord Granville was parcelling out land. > >There was probably not that much settlement before that though there was in > >Western North Carolina generally, probably from the early 1750's and largely > >Scotch Irish. > > > >Given her date of birth and that her family were apparently at Stoner's > >church, I think it is a fair bet to say she was born in Germany. I don't > >think she was on the ship with Martin as I did not see any Fausts (could be > >wrong) and it seems clear some of her people were settled with the Loys down > >at Stoner. Again, they could have been on a different ship but it is also > >highly probable that Martin met and married her on this side. It has been > >mentioned here and there that there was a Martin Laye in Heidelburg the > >right age and etc who had a different wife(again her name and marriage date > >are known but I do not have them before me). Maybe Catherine was Martin's > >second wife. That would explain the birth of some sons before the marriage > >date. > > > >The marriage of Catherine to Martin in 1745 in Berks seems as if it could be > >right. That was a big jumping off place for the travelers down the great > >road. I had not heard it before. I have always wondered about the > >identification of Bucks County because people from there tended to head up > >into Western PA and on into Ohio. I have often wondered if there was not > >confusion with a later Martin Loy who was known to have lived in Bucks and > >migrated to Western PA. However, it is interesting that two brother's in > >law from the Goshenhoppen Church in Montgomery (J. Philip Emmert and George > >I forget at the moment) were on the St. Mark with Martin Loy in 1741. They > >lived in Bucks (there is an area where Bersk, Montgomery Bucks and Lehigh > >all share corners) went to church in Motgomery and eventually settled in > >Berks so that was actually an acceptable migration pattern. > > > >George's birth in 1743 would seem to suggest that the other wife lived at > >least to that point. I could be wrong but 1750 looks a little early for her > >death given that she was buried in St Asaph's District at the Stoner Church. > >Shew should have been alive at least as late as 1769. I do not have an > >alternative date however unless one of the Martin Loy researchers knows > >something about this. > > > >Also I have the following from the old Court Records of Augusta County > >(Scotch Irish Records) unless othewrwise stated these refer to Augusta > >County Virginia. Specifically Staunton. The Loy Family in Ameria has man > >of these same records (as transcribed by Nellie Loy Whitmore) though the > >analysis of the family in that book seems to confuse 2 or perhaps three > >distinct Stephen Loys, 1 English and 1 (or 2) German. > > > >"2d February, 1754. Patton to Augustine, Henry and Daniel Price, 1130 acres > >on Tom's Creek, a branch of New River. Cor. Jacob Lorton, line of John > >Adams' land.......2d February, 1754. Same to Martin Loy, 230 acres on Tom's > >Creek. Cor. George Sharp's land." The Loy Family In America says Tom's > >Creek is in Virginia and I think it is near Stauntonm[GEL]. > > > >"10th February, 1754. Same to Casper Barrier, 507 acres on Tom's Creek as > >above. Cor. Wm. Ingles. Lepard's line; Martin Loy's line." > > > >"17th February, 1758. Colonel James Patton's estate; appraised by Thomas > >Stewart, John Ramsey, Edward Hall. List of bonds, bills, &c., due the > >estate: James Wiley's, 3rd May, 1754; Wm. Leppard's, 15th February, 1753; > >John Die and Wm. Leppard's, 2nd February, 1754; William Byers, 15th > >February, 1754; Ernest Sharp, John Sharp and Martin Loy" > > > >Elizabeth Crawford vs. Stephen Loy.--Attachment, 17th April, 1763. Stephen > >Loy, of Frederick Town, in Maryland, to Thomas Fulton. Bond 25th March, > >1762. > > > >Ro. Breckinridge vs. Stephen Loy.--Defendant's bond, dated 21st May, 1762, > >from Manochissie [Frederick Cy MD GEL] > > > >"Page 383.--21st August, 1765. Robert Breckenridge and Lettice to Stephen > >Loy. ?230 (paid by said Martin Loy), 245 acres in Beverley Manor conveyed to > >Robert. 17th May, 1749." I do not know what said means because the editor > >did not quote the entire document. - I think Beverly MAnor might be up in > >Frederick but am not sure. Anyway, MArtin is offsetting some obligation he > >has to Stephen [GEL] > > > >"Page 271.--24th February, 1770. Stephen Loy, tanner, to Sampson and Geo. > >Mathews, ?45, negro slave, condition that Stephen Loy and Doctor John > >Watkins on 20th February, 1769, executed a bond to S. and G. Mathews > >for ?60; now if Stephen make payment. Teste: William Robertson and Cathorine > >Loy." > > > >"Page 519.--23d June, 1770. Stephen Loy and Mary ( ) to William > >Bowyer, ?150, 245 acres whereon Stephen now lives, which he purchased of > >Robert Breckinridge and joining Alexander McClenachan, Andrew Scott. Robert > >McClenachan, David Stuart and Elisha McClenachan. Teste: G. Jones, Lew > >Bowyer, Wm. Madison, Michael Bowyer. [p.504]" > > > >Stephen's wife was apparently Mary so who was Cathorine Loy? A daughter or a > >sister in law? The latter might make a better witness. > > > >My guess is that prior to 1754, Stephen and Martin loy were in Frederick Cy. > >About 1754 they moved to Staunton with Martin at Tom's Creek and Martin went > >on to Orange County some time in the 1760's. Stephen got involved in > >lawsuits for some supplies he was buying for his tanning business and may > >have moved back to Maryland. The records are suggestive but not entirely > >clear. Stephen was a German and not English as is attested by his > >naturalization in Staunton in 1754. I do not know why Martin's does not > >appear except that the editor of the Scots Irish in Virginia tended to > >expunge materials he thought were entirely German in Content. > > > >The presence of Stephen and Martin Loy near Thurmont and Frederick MD where > >John George Loy was settled may suggest a reltaionship between them as well > >though I have not seen the connection as I have with Martin & Stephen. This > >is a very confused area. However, there were not that many German born > >Martin Loys the right age in America then and given the ties between the > >Loys and Sharps in North Carolina I think it interestting that the name > >Martin Loy in Virginia is usually associated with one or more people of the > >name Sharp. > > > >Grady > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >??? : <Georgiamhh@aol.com> > >?? : <LOY-L@rootsweb.com> > >???? : Saturday, July 07, 2001 10:15 > >?? : Re: [LOY] Re: Loy Family > > > > > > > Does Roger Loy in Tokyo, Japan, still belong to this list? > > > > > > I upgraded and lost all of my favorites and address list. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Georgia Hornbuckle > > > GeorgiaMHH@aol.com > > > > > > > > > ==== LOY Mailing List ==== > > > *** Roxanne Munns, ListHostess *** > > > Questions? 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