I concur with Mark of course on this. The file of that name was submitted by Silvia Silva who based it largely on a manuscript I gave her which was based on The Loy Family in America which we both had at that time. The references to John and Maria Elizabetha Kumpf Loy were from an earlier submission by some of Conrad Loy's descendants though clearly also referring to The Loy Family in America or its immediate source. The information from Daniel on down to Hiram is correct as nearly as we have been able to find out. I believe it was assembled by Nellie Loy Whitmore (who I think - correct me if I am wrong - was one of Hiram's people) and she wrote a big paper with all of the descendants she could find of John and Maria Elizabetha Loy. Most of her material in now reflected in the charts in The Loy Family in America. She was not able to get much on Conrad's line or John's line and she did not trace the daughters lines that I am aware but her work on Daniels line I have yet to find significant fault with. She did not appear to know that Christina was a Muhlschalgel (Millslagle) and that "discovery was apparently made later and it is included in The Loy Family in America. There are earlier and parallel researchers who contributed to this line that no doubt some of you are aware of but I have not really had the chance to see their direct work yet (I am always willing to be educated. Grat McBRide told me once that a Ms Pugh was very important in research on this line in times past but that is all I know of her. Nellie appears to have researched the primary sources at libraries in Illinois). So much for the good part. The information provided to the LDS based on The Loy Family in America information has several important errors. 1. Daniel's birth place and whether John Loy moved around or not. Daniel was not born at New Goshenhopen and there is no evidece that John Loy and his family had anything to do with that church. Johan Andreas Muhslschalgel, Daniel Loy's father-in-law from Lachen Speyerdord in the Rhineland had many relatives there and was there for two or three years until his father-in-law J. Phillip Emmert lost the lease to his farm and was forced to move to Richmond township. The Muhslchlagels lived there for a decade or so -Chritina was born there- until relocating to Hampshire County before 1774. In any case, John Loy arrived in America on the Loyal Judith in 1740 (there is no dispute about this at present. The Loy Family in America has him arriving in 1733 with Hans George Ley and then going back to Germany for schooling. I don't believe our John Loy is Hans George Loy's brother - Hans George Ley probably was from Landau and Johannes Ley (John Loy) was probably from the Unkenbach or Obermoschel area 50 miles to the northwest, but in any case all agree his last arrival in America was on the Loyal Judith). John Loy surfaces in the Muddy Creek district of Lancaster County in 1749-1750 married to a Maria Elizabetha, and they had their first child of record, Mary Elizabeth (named for godmother Maria ELizabetha Schlabagh, wife of Heinrich). Michael Loy of Frederick Cy may have been a son born ca 1749 wherever it was John and Maria were before Muddy Creek. Michael's son Peter was able to sell his inheritance rights in John's estates according to Nellie so it seems likely. John Loy had a small farm of somewhere around 100 acres - I am not sure whether leased or owned -in what is now Brecknock Township of Berks County but in 1750 was still in Lancaster County. By 1752 Berks had separated off and John Loy appears as "John Loy" on the first Brecknock Berks Tax List. He remained in the same spot until 1771 at least when Conrad was born and sometime between then and 1775 he relocated to the Winchester area of Frederick County, Virginia. He attended the Muddy Creek Reformed Church across the border in Lancaster County until the Berks part of that congregation separated in 1767 to form the Allegheny Reformed Church. John Loy's son Daniel Loy's namesake was almost certainly Daniel Kieffer who stood sponsor with members of his family to John Loy's children's christnings over a period from 1752 to 1771 (Conrad Loy's godmother was Anna Kieffer and his godfather and namesale was Conrad Hertz - probably a family friend- both young singles at that time). 2. The identity of Daniel Loy's mother and John's wife Maria Elizabetha Daniel Loy's mother was not Anna Maria Kumpf as the ancestral file and The Loy Family in America stated. The Kemp (Johan Conrad Kumof) descendants are fairly emphatic about this and cannot understand where we Loys ever got the idea. There was an Anna Maria Kumpf born ca 1733/4, in either Germantown or New Holland Lancaster (The Johan Conrad Kumpf family of Untergimpern Germany were not connected to New Goshenhoppen. The Goshenhoppen Kumpf family was the family of Peter, George, Henry and Daniel Kumpf from the Kraichgau region of Germany. Heinrich of that family married Catherine Emmet at New Goshenhoppen and either their child or their nephew was the Henry Kumpf who accompanied the Millslagles to Hampshire County. Henry was not Daniel Loy's cousin as is stated in The Loy Family in America but Christina's.) Johan Conrad Kumpf settled in Frederick County Maryland in the late 1730's near Rocky Springs to the west of Frederick. He did have dealings with Hans George Loy in Frederick County Maryland but there is not indication he ever met or knew of the existence of John Loy. As to the identity of Daniel Loy's mother, I strongly believe for reasons explained on this list on previous occasions that she was Maria Elizabetha Lindeman born 1730 in Germany. The key evidence is the record of the birth in Germany of a woman having the right age and name, the absence of any other record of a marriage for her, the fact that the Lindemans and John Loy were both on the Loyal Judith, the fact that her sister Catherine Lindeman was Daniel Kieffer's wife and that fact that the Kieffers and Loys provided by far the highest percentage of sponsorship for the christenings of the others children. As to why John Loy disappeared, it is probable that arriving without family on American shores at the age of 19 he had to work for someone - very likely Justus Lindeman who was a Weaver - for several years to earn money to buy or lease his farm. The marriage of a daughter to an apprentice was a common thing in that community. 3. Christina Milslagle - Finally, there is now a lot more on Christina Muhlschlagel/Millslgle's ancestry than was available even three or four years ago. Her family has been traced at Lachen Speyerdorf (Millslagle/Hamman/Miller) and Eppingen (Kaempf) back to the early to mid 1600's. That information is documented in the site - http://home.t-online.de/home/mckenzie/millsl.htm which was put together by a group of Muhlschlagel researchers in 1999. There are also I think excerpts from the diary of Andreas Muhschlagel, one of which gives Christina's birth date - 1757, 24ten April ist meine Tochter Anna Christina zur Welt gebohren, die danach Zeugin wahren Niclaus Mayer und seyne Ehefrau Anna Christina. Es ist in der ?langen ?Schwerner Kirch von dem schweizter Pfarrer getauft worden 24 April 1757 my daughter Anna Christina is born to the world, the witnesses were Niclaus and his wife Anna Christina. The child was baptised in the (unclear) church by the Swiss minister (translation was by Peggy McKenzie who made the site) Hopefully the above clears up most of the errors in the Ancestral File for the generations preceding Hiram's grandfather Daniel Loy. Grady Loy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bramlette" <mbramlette@earthlink.net> To: <LOY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:14 AM Subject: Re: [LOY] Hiram Loy b 1812 > Let me recommend learning to use the site www.familysearch.com for > answering, or at least addressing, questions like yours: "I don't > suppose you have the Jacob Loy ancestors." Of course, the accuracy of > what you find there varies, but it's a start. Here's what that site > thinks your line is: > > Jacob LOY (AFN: 1V10-MX0) Pedigree > Sex: M Family > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Event(s): > Birth: 12 Jun 1782 > , Frederick, Va > Death: 16 Apr 1874 > , Franklin, Oh > Burial: > Clinton Chapel > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Parents: > Father: Daniel LOY (AFN: 1HG6-THQ) Family > Mother: Christiana MILLSLAGLE (AFN: 1V10-QGL) > > Then: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Daniel LOY (AFN: 1HG6-THQ) Pedigree > Sex: M Family > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Event(s): > Birth: 1740 > New Goshenhoppen, Berks Co., Penn > Death: 1830/1840 > , Hampshire, Va > Burial: > Mt. Zion Ceme > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Parents: > Father: John LOY (AFN: 2RPG-CM) Family > Mother: Maria Elizabeth KUMPF (AFN: 2RPG-DS) > > Then: > > John LOY (AFN: 2RPG-CM) Pedigree > Sex: M Family > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Event(s): > Birth: 1735 > Of New Goshenhop, Berks Co., Penn > Death: W/P 04 1798 Dec > , Frederick Co., Va > Burial: > , Frederick Co., Va > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Parents: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > Marriage(s): > Spouse: Maria Elizabeth KUMPF (AFN: 2RPG-DS) Family > Marriage: Abt 1755 > > > My Loy line is entirely different, it seems. > > Mark Bramlette > great-grandson of Margaret S. (Loy) Tucker > > > > ==== LOY Mailing List ==== > *** Roxanne Munns, ListHostess *** > What have we been talking about? Find out in the archives: > http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and type in LOY. > > > ============================== > Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate > your heritage! > http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog > >