HI JACKIE, POOR EYESIGHT SO PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS. MAY ANCESTOR, WILLIAM COOPER MARRIED EVA MOYER AND THEY ARE BURIED IN CODORUS, YORK, PA. WILLIAM WAS APPARENTLY BORN IN VA BUT EVA WAS BORN IN YORK CO. THEY MOVED TO BECKLEYSVILLE, MD AND HAD THEIR KIDS AND THEN WENT BACK TO CODORUS, PA. THEY HAD A BUNCH OF KIDS IN THE BALTIMORE AREA THOUGH PART OF THEM MOVED BACK TO PA. THEIR OLDEST SON, JOHN COOPER, WAS MY 6TH GREAT GRANDFATHER AND WILLIAM THE 7TH GG. I ALSO HAVE PA LOUDENSLAGERS IN MY LINE. OH, AND REINTZELS IN MY LINE SO A LOT OF PA FOREBARERS (SPELLCHECK). SO PROBABLY NOT THE SAME COOPERS. I HAVE A LOT OF ANCESTORS ON THE EASTERN SHORE THOUGH. GOD BLESS, NORAH HASTINGS COLLINS -----Original Message----- From: Jackie Helmke Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:06 AM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 Leanora: you listed the Coopers from York co PA. I descend from (old) Theophilus Simonton and his wife Mary Smith Simonton, who lived in Conestoga Manor, Lancaster co PA from abt 1737 to after 1754. Theophilus died in 1754 and is buried in PA. Their oldest son Theophilus Simonton II, died in Lancaster co PA in 1750. He had a son named John. Down the line, John had a son named Adam Simonton, who would have been a grandson of old Theophilus. This Adam Simonton married ___Cooper. All of these people left PA and moved to then Rowan co NC area. This Adam Simonton and relatives moved from NC to Ohio. Is this the Cooper you are researching? On 11/24/2013 3:27 PM, lenorah123@comcast.net wrote: > HEY JIM, > WE NIVED FROM SALISBURY, MD TO WAYNESBORO, PA 3 YEARS AGO. WHENEVER I > TELL > STRANGERS WE MOVED FROM SALISBURY THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY WE LEFT THERE FOR > HERE. BUT WE LOVE IT UP HERE. > > NORAH HASTINGS COLLINS > HASTINGS, RUARKS, CALLAWAYS, TAYLORS ETC. AND THE YORK CO., PA COOPERS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Moore > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:57 PM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 > > Thank you, Cindy. My wife's family is from Franklin Co. I married her > anyway. :-). > > Sent from iPhone > >> On Nov 24, 2013, at 2:45 PM, "Cindy and David Steinhoff" >> <cdsteinhoff@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> I'm not Barbara <grin>, but I can refer you to this web page that >> discusses >> land records housed in the PA State Archives: >> http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/rg17.htm . It's quite detailed >> and >> does refer readers often to Munger's book. >> >> Once you move past the narrative, you'll see a listing of the types of >> land >> records housed at the archives, and it includes at least one folder for >> Delaware counties. It's important to read the narrative portion of this >> page to understand how records are stored and organized. >> >> I am originally from Western Pennsylvania and know exactly where in >> Westmoreland County my family lived from about 1830 or so on. From about >> 1770 until then, when the first family members moved west, they were in >> Franklin County, Pennsylvania, north of Hagerstown, Maryland. A few >> family >> members remained in Franklin until their deaths in the 1850s and 1860s. >> Franklin was part of 2 other counties over the years that my family was >> there, making it a challenge to find records. It seems like it took some >> time for the knowledge of a change in the county boundaries to filter >> down >> to the residents who were affected. The original land grant to the >> family >> occurred through William Penn's organization in the early 1770s, and I >> was >> able to trace much of this through the land records at the Pennsylvania >> State Archives. I found quite a bit online, though would like to visit >> the >> archives in person one day, in case there is more there. >> >> Cindy in Maryland >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moore >> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 12:23 PM >> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >> >> Thank you to all who have responded to my note about early Sussex >> records. >> >> Barb Holmes: It might be helpful to numerous Listers if you would take >> the >> time to tell us about the records you saw in Harrisburg. I know you told >> us >> about the book that explains the history of the records. I'm asking about >> the specifics of where one goes in Harrisburg and exactly what one asks >> to >> see. Hey, I'm old and need all the help I can get! >> >> Thank you, kindly. >> >> Jim Moore >> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Barb Holmes <bholmes@austin.rr.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> When I visited Harrisburg, PA to look at their holdings of original >>> Pennsylvania/Delaware deeds, I was told that Donna Bingham Munger had >>> just written a book, Pennsylvania Land Records, A History and Guide >>> for, published in1991, which they said this book would explain and >>> help in understanding why our ancestor Robert Holmes' Delaware land >>> record along Mispillion Creek, was being held in Harrisburg, PA. Also >>> this book would explain why his son John Holmes had to re-register the >>> deed in 1754 in Harrisburg, PA, after his father Robert Holmes died. >>> Donna Munger was chief of the Division of Land Records, 1986-1989. >>> The book does a good job of explaining the deeds of this PA/DE area. >>> How confusing for the people who lived in the area when it came time >>> to pay their taxes, as Peter Waples found out the hard way. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joseph >>> Lake >>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:58 PM >>> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>> >>> Jane Mc Donnell, Jim Moore & List......While I cannot add to your >>> material, I have a genealogical brick wall with almost the same >>> specifications: 1723 Sussex Co, DE; possibly Scots Irish; >>> Presbyterians (Cool Spring Church); Broadkill 100 (around Milton); etc. >>> >>> I read both of your e-mails in this (so far) short string with great >>> interest. I have found a Sussex 1723 land deed involving Archibald >>> Hopkins >>> (purchaser) of Sussex and a niece of Sheriff Cantwell (seller,New >>> Castle Co, >>> DE) for land in Sussex, recorded in Sussex. No record in New Castle >>> and NO earlier documents in Sussex, so the current facts seem to show >>> that Archibald Hopkins arrived in Sussex c1723. >>> >>> With the detail contained in Jim Moores' and Jane McDonnells' e=mails >>> one aspect of the brick wall is deciding where (which county, state) >>> to try and find Archibald Hopkins before c1723??? If you had these >>> facts, how would you use them to proceed? >>> >>> Joe Lake >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jane McDonnell >>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:53 AM >>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Since you asked about a specific date, I would say Sussex County, >>> Delaware was not reliably used in records until 1775. For the area in >>> question, records would "probably" be in Accomac or Northampton, VA, >>> part of the East Shore Colonies (they also have fluid boundaries, see >>> my note at the end) or in Pennsylvania archives (the southern >>> counties, Sussex on the Delaware, New Castle). I've been working >>> extraordinarily hard trying to sort out these references. So, I too >>> would love anyone's dating/boundaries. Although called Sussex >>> (territory of Pennsylvania) from an early date, most of the lowest >>> county was "Somerset Co, MD" (part also was Dorchester and Worcester, >>> MD even shown as New Castle on a 1668 map) before the Mason Dixon line >>> was drawn. Land patents were continuing to be granted by Maryland >>> throughout the decades of dispute. Sussex also seems to have had a >>> fluid border with Kent Co. especially with a major town straddling the >>> county line (Milford north and south). I have family (Hazzard) in the >>> Bridgeville and Seaford area, and Burtons in Broadkill/ln Hundred who >>> didn't know the county or the state they lived in during their lives. >>> Their land patents in the NW Fork area were granted by Maryland, and >>> one ancestor thought he had lived his life in Maryland only to have >>> history posthumously correct him. He had been a Delawarian for the >>> last 58 years of his life. >>> >>> As you point out, Delaware was referred to in many records as "the >>> lower counties of Delaware, (or Sussex), in the territories (or >>> province) of Pennsylvania" from it's earliest days until much longer >>> than it seems to have been necessary - nearly the 19th century. I >>> imagine because of a centralized government system that gave the >>> Pennsylvania Assembly sway over the area for a good long time (which I >>> have no end date for). Was Philadelphia the seat of power until >>> statehood was granted to Delaware? Or did things change before/after >>> that? >>> >>> I have started to write a narrative to try to sort out the political >>> history of the Hundreds of Delaware. Every time I read a new history >>> document of the area, or find judicial findings for a new generation, >>> I have to go back in and make new notations. Now it is as confusing as >>> a family tree with the ancestral lines confused (another oddity that >>> DelMarVa seems prone to - so much documentation, so much >>> misinterpretation!). >>> >>> I would love to hear input from anyone. If anyone wants to read my >>> "confusing notes", I have added a few of them below. (I have collected >>> this information to add to my notes from the easily attainable >>> "History of the Hundreds of Delaware") >>> >>> That portion of my notes follows: >>> >>> BROADCREEK HUNDRED >>> Early settlers came from Virginia and Maryland, the largest earliest >>> colonial group from: >>> 1) Accomac Shire (1634) >>> became Northampton (1642) >>> Split and became Accomac County to the north and Northampton in the >>> south >>> (1663) >>> Accomac became Accomack in (1940) >>> 2) And some settlers also from Pennsylvania. >>> >>> First land records date from 1680. Being heavily settled by Nanticoke >>> Indians, a reservation was made of 500 acres were Laurel(town) now >>> stands. >>> The Indians were moved further west. Families of note include, >>> Collins, Ellegood and Derrickson and later Marvil. Other towns were >>> Seaford and Concord which was laid out in 1796. These are the towns >>> associated with our branch of Hazzards. Lewisville became Bethel in1880. >>> >>> LITTLE CREEK HUNDRED >>> Was settled with many official records assuming it was Somerset, MD >>> with land patents recording the land was in MD, till the border >>> dispute was settled.The generations born before 1775 have a good >>> chance their birth was actually in Delaware, though the records will >>> list >> MD. >>> Other border anomalies: The town of Milford is in both Kent and Sussex >>> Co. >>> For purposes of our family tree we assume they were in Sussex Co. but >>> records for Kent should be double checked >>> >>> beginning in 1682 this piece of Delaware was ceded to Penn and became >>> known as Sussex County in the territories of Pennsylvania see docs in >>> folder from church records as "evidence" >>> >>> See the history of Somerset County on wikipedia. >>> >>> The part of Somerset Co, MD that was to become Indian River and maybe >>> most of Sussex, in the eastern Hundreds at least, was once called >>> "Worcester Manor" and then Worcester County, MD. perhaps with >>> different boundaries, from at least 1721. >>> >>> Somerset was early Sussex area as far as Rehoboth settlement, so >>> virtually the same as Sussex and part of Kent. It bordered Accomac >>> County >> VA. >>> Original >>> settlers were from Accomac VA and immigrating Scot-Irish Prespyterians >>> >>> Records from the 1600s thru most of the 1700s will be originally VA or >>> MD. >>> It won't be reliably Delaware until after 1775. >>> >>> see also Pennsylvania, as Delaware was originally a province of >>> William Penn's land grant. >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/17thcentury/1688morden.jpg >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg >>> And you can see it could be referred to as Newcastle, or Somerset >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg Occasionally referred to >>> as the "southern counties" of PA or the "Eastern Shore Colony" of MD >>> or VA. >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Lenorah, thanks for answering my e-mail. On 11/28/2013 9:43 AM, lenorah123@comcast.net wrote: > HI JACKIE, > POOR EYESIGHT SO PLEASE EXCUSE THE ALL CAPS. MAY ANCESTOR, WILLIAM COOPER > MARRIED EVA MOYER AND THEY ARE BURIED IN CODORUS, YORK, PA. WILLIAM WAS > APPARENTLY BORN IN VA BUT EVA WAS BORN IN YORK CO. THEY MOVED TO > BECKLEYSVILLE, MD AND HAD THEIR KIDS AND THEN WENT BACK TO CODORUS, PA. > THEY HAD A BUNCH OF KIDS IN THE BALTIMORE AREA THOUGH PART OF THEM MOVED > BACK TO PA. THEIR OLDEST SON, JOHN COOPER, WAS MY 6TH GREAT GRANDFATHER > AND WILLIAM THE 7TH GG. I ALSO HAVE PA LOUDENSLAGERS IN MY LINE. OH, AND > REINTZELS IN MY LINE SO A LOT OF PA FOREBARERS (SPELLCHECK). SO PROBABLY > NOT THE SAME COOPERS. I HAVE A LOT OF ANCESTORS ON THE EASTERN SHORE > THOUGH. > > GOD BLESS, > NORAH HASTINGS COLLINS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jackie Helmke > Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 10:06 AM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 > > Leanora: you listed the Coopers from York co PA. I descend from (old) > Theophilus Simonton and his wife Mary Smith Simonton, who lived in > Conestoga Manor, Lancaster co PA from abt 1737 to after 1754. > Theophilus died in 1754 and is buried in PA. Their oldest son Theophilus > Simonton II, died in Lancaster co PA in 1750. He had a son named John. > Down the line, John had a son named Adam Simonton, who would have been a > grandson of old Theophilus. This Adam Simonton married ___Cooper. All > of these people left PA and moved to then Rowan co NC area. This Adam > Simonton and relatives moved from NC to Ohio. Is this the Cooper you > are researching? > On 11/24/2013 3:27 PM, lenorah123@comcast.net wrote: >> HEY JIM, >> WE NIVED FROM SALISBURY, MD TO WAYNESBORO, PA 3 YEARS AGO. WHENEVER I >> TELL >> STRANGERS WE MOVED FROM SALISBURY THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY WE LEFT THERE FOR >> HERE. BUT WE LOVE IT UP HERE. >> >> NORAH HASTINGS COLLINS >> HASTINGS, RUARKS, CALLAWAYS, TAYLORS ETC. AND THE YORK CO., PA COOPERS >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Moore >> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:57 PM >> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >> >> Thank you, Cindy. My wife's family is from Franklin Co. I married her >> anyway. :-). >> >> Sent from iPhone >> >>> On Nov 24, 2013, at 2:45 PM, "Cindy and David Steinhoff" >>> <cdsteinhoff@comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>> I'm not Barbara <grin>, but I can refer you to this web page that >>> discusses >>> land records housed in the PA State Archives: >>> http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/rg17.htm . It's quite detailed >>> and >>> does refer readers often to Munger's book. >>> >>> Once you move past the narrative, you'll see a listing of the types of >>> land >>> records housed at the archives, and it includes at least one folder for >>> Delaware counties. It's important to read the narrative portion of this >>> page to understand how records are stored and organized. >>> >>> I am originally from Western Pennsylvania and know exactly where in >>> Westmoreland County my family lived from about 1830 or so on. From about >>> 1770 until then, when the first family members moved west, they were in >>> Franklin County, Pennsylvania, north of Hagerstown, Maryland. A few >>> family >>> members remained in Franklin until their deaths in the 1850s and 1860s. >>> Franklin was part of 2 other counties over the years that my family was >>> there, making it a challenge to find records. It seems like it took some >>> time for the knowledge of a change in the county boundaries to filter >>> down >>> to the residents who were affected. The original land grant to the >>> family >>> occurred through William Penn's organization in the early 1770s, and I >>> was >>> able to trace much of this through the land records at the Pennsylvania >>> State Archives. I found quite a bit online, though would like to visit >>> the >>> archives in person one day, in case there is more there. >>> >>> Cindy in Maryland >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moore >>> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 12:23 PM >>> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>> >>> Thank you to all who have responded to my note about early Sussex >>> records. >>> >>> Barb Holmes: It might be helpful to numerous Listers if you would take >>> the >>> time to tell us about the records you saw in Harrisburg. I know you told >>> us >>> about the book that explains the history of the records. I'm asking about >>> the specifics of where one goes in Harrisburg and exactly what one asks >>> to >>> see. Hey, I'm old and need all the help I can get! >>> >>> Thank you, kindly. >>> >>> Jim Moore >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Barb Holmes <bholmes@austin.rr.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> When I visited Harrisburg, PA to look at their holdings of original >>>> Pennsylvania/Delaware deeds, I was told that Donna Bingham Munger had >>>> just written a book, Pennsylvania Land Records, A History and Guide >>>> for, published in1991, which they said this book would explain and >>>> help in understanding why our ancestor Robert Holmes' Delaware land >>>> record along Mispillion Creek, was being held in Harrisburg, PA. Also >>>> this book would explain why his son John Holmes had to re-register the >>>> deed in 1754 in Harrisburg, PA, after his father Robert Holmes died. >>>> Donna Munger was chief of the Division of Land Records, 1986-1989. >>>> The book does a good job of explaining the deeds of this PA/DE area. >>>> How confusing for the people who lived in the area when it came time >>>> to pay their taxes, as Peter Waples found out the hard way. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >>>> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joseph >>>> Lake >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:58 PM >>>> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>>> >>>> Jane Mc Donnell, Jim Moore & List......While I cannot add to your >>>> material, I have a genealogical brick wall with almost the same >>>> specifications: 1723 Sussex Co, DE; possibly Scots Irish; >>>> Presbyterians (Cool Spring Church); Broadkill 100 (around Milton); etc. >>>> >>>> I read both of your e-mails in this (so far) short string with great >>>> interest. I have found a Sussex 1723 land deed involving Archibald >>>> Hopkins >>>> (purchaser) of Sussex and a niece of Sheriff Cantwell (seller,New >>>> Castle Co, >>>> DE) for land in Sussex, recorded in Sussex. No record in New Castle >>>> and NO earlier documents in Sussex, so the current facts seem to show >>>> that Archibald Hopkins arrived in Sussex c1723. >>>> >>>> With the detail contained in Jim Moores' and Jane McDonnells' e=mails >>>> one aspect of the brick wall is deciding where (which county, state) >>>> to try and find Archibald Hopkins before c1723??? If you had these >>>> facts, how would you use them to proceed? >>>> >>>> Joe Lake >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jane McDonnell >>>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:53 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>>> >>>> Jim, >>>> >>>> Since you asked about a specific date, I would say Sussex County, >>>> Delaware was not reliably used in records until 1775. For the area in >>>> question, records would "probably" be in Accomac or Northampton, VA, >>>> part of the East Shore Colonies (they also have fluid boundaries, see >>>> my note at the end) or in Pennsylvania archives (the southern >>>> counties, Sussex on the Delaware, New Castle). I've been working >>>> extraordinarily hard trying to sort out these references. So, I too >>>> would love anyone's dating/boundaries. Although called Sussex >>>> (territory of Pennsylvania) from an early date, most of the lowest >>>> county was "Somerset Co, MD" (part also was Dorchester and Worcester, >>>> MD even shown as New Castle on a 1668 map) before the Mason Dixon line >>>> was drawn. Land patents were continuing to be granted by Maryland >>>> throughout the decades of dispute. Sussex also seems to have had a >>>> fluid border with Kent Co. especially with a major town straddling the >>>> county line (Milford north and south). I have family (Hazzard) in the >>>> Bridgeville and Seaford area, and Burtons in Broadkill/ln Hundred who >>>> didn't know the county or the state they lived in during their lives. >>>> Their land patents in the NW Fork area were granted by Maryland, and >>>> one ancestor thought he had lived his life in Maryland only to have >>>> history posthumously correct him. He had been a Delawarian for the >>>> last 58 years of his life. >>>> >>>> As you point out, Delaware was referred to in many records as "the >>>> lower counties of Delaware, (or Sussex), in the territories (or >>>> province) of Pennsylvania" from it's earliest days until much longer >>>> than it seems to have been necessary - nearly the 19th century. I >>>> imagine because of a centralized government system that gave the >>>> Pennsylvania Assembly sway over the area for a good long time (which I >>>> have no end date for). Was Philadelphia the seat of power until >>>> statehood was granted to Delaware? Or did things change before/after >>>> that? >>>> >>>> I have started to write a narrative to try to sort out the political >>>> history of the Hundreds of Delaware. Every time I read a new history >>>> document of the area, or find judicial findings for a new generation, >>>> I have to go back in and make new notations. Now it is as confusing as >>>> a family tree with the ancestral lines confused (another oddity that >>>> DelMarVa seems prone to - so much documentation, so much >>>> misinterpretation!). >>>> >>>> I would love to hear input from anyone. If anyone wants to read my >>>> "confusing notes", I have added a few of them below. (I have collected >>>> this information to add to my notes from the easily attainable >>>> "History of the Hundreds of Delaware") >>>> >>>> That portion of my notes follows: >>>> >>>> BROADCREEK HUNDRED >>>> Early settlers came from Virginia and Maryland, the largest earliest >>>> colonial group from: >>>> 1) Accomac Shire (1634) >>>> became Northampton (1642) >>>> Split and became Accomac County to the north and Northampton in the >>>> south >>>> (1663) >>>> Accomac became Accomack in (1940) >>>> 2) And some settlers also from Pennsylvania. >>>> >>>> First land records date from 1680. Being heavily settled by Nanticoke >>>> Indians, a reservation was made of 500 acres were Laurel(town) now >>>> stands. >>>> The Indians were moved further west. Families of note include, >>>> Collins, Ellegood and Derrickson and later Marvil. Other towns were >>>> Seaford and Concord which was laid out in 1796. These are the towns >>>> associated with our branch of Hazzards. Lewisville became Bethel in1880. >>>> >>>> LITTLE CREEK HUNDRED >>>> Was settled with many official records assuming it was Somerset, MD >>>> with land patents recording the land was in MD, till the border >>>> dispute was settled.The generations born before 1775 have a good >>>> chance their birth was actually in Delaware, though the records will >>>> list >>> MD. >>>> Other border anomalies: The town of Milford is in both Kent and Sussex >>>> Co. >>>> For purposes of our family tree we assume they were in Sussex Co. but >>>> records for Kent should be double checked >>>> >>>> beginning in 1682 this piece of Delaware was ceded to Penn and became >>>> known as Sussex County in the territories of Pennsylvania see docs in >>>> folder from church records as "evidence" >>>> >>>> See the history of Somerset County on wikipedia. >>>> >>>> The part of Somerset Co, MD that was to become Indian River and maybe >>>> most of Sussex, in the eastern Hundreds at least, was once called >>>> "Worcester Manor" and then Worcester County, MD. perhaps with >>>> different boundaries, from at least 1721. >>>> >>>> Somerset was early Sussex area as far as Rehoboth settlement, so >>>> virtually the same as Sussex and part of Kent. It bordered Accomac >>>> County >>> VA. >>>> Original >>>> settlers were from Accomac VA and immigrating Scot-Irish Prespyterians >>>> >>>> Records from the 1600s thru most of the 1700s will be originally VA or >>>> MD. >>>> It won't be reliably Delaware until after 1775. >>>> >>>> see also Pennsylvania, as Delaware was originally a province of >>>> William Penn's land grant. >>>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/17thcentury/1688morden.jpg >>>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg >>>> And you can see it could be referred to as Newcastle, or Somerset >>>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg Occasionally referred to >>>> as the "southern counties" of PA or the "Eastern Shore Colony" of MD >>>> or VA. >>>> *************************************** >>>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> *************************************** >>>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> *************************************** >>>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Leanora: you listed the Coopers from York co PA. I descend from (old) Theophilus Simonton and his wife Mary Smith Simonton, who lived in Conestoga Manor, Lancaster co PA from abt 1737 to after 1754. Theophilus died in 1754 and is buried in PA. Their oldest son Theophilus Simonton II, died in Lancaster co PA in 1750. He had a son named John. Down the line, John had a son named Adam Simonton, who would have been a grandson of old Theophilus. This Adam Simonton married ___Cooper. All of these people left PA and moved to then Rowan co NC area. This Adam Simonton and relatives moved from NC to Ohio. Is this the Cooper you are researching? On 11/24/2013 3:27 PM, lenorah123@comcast.net wrote: > HEY JIM, > WE NIVED FROM SALISBURY, MD TO WAYNESBORO, PA 3 YEARS AGO. WHENEVER I TELL > STRANGERS WE MOVED FROM SALISBURY THEY WANT TO KNOW WHY WE LEFT THERE FOR > HERE. BUT WE LOVE IT UP HERE. > > NORAH HASTINGS COLLINS > HASTINGS, RUARKS, CALLAWAYS, TAYLORS ETC. AND THE YORK CO., PA COOPERS > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Moore > Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:57 PM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 > > Thank you, Cindy. My wife's family is from Franklin Co. I married her > anyway. :-). > > Sent from iPhone > >> On Nov 24, 2013, at 2:45 PM, "Cindy and David Steinhoff" >> <cdsteinhoff@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> I'm not Barbara <grin>, but I can refer you to this web page that >> discusses >> land records housed in the PA State Archives: >> http://www.phmc.state.pa.us/bah/dam/rg/rg17.htm . It's quite detailed and >> does refer readers often to Munger's book. >> >> Once you move past the narrative, you'll see a listing of the types of >> land >> records housed at the archives, and it includes at least one folder for >> Delaware counties. It's important to read the narrative portion of this >> page to understand how records are stored and organized. >> >> I am originally from Western Pennsylvania and know exactly where in >> Westmoreland County my family lived from about 1830 or so on. From about >> 1770 until then, when the first family members moved west, they were in >> Franklin County, Pennsylvania, north of Hagerstown, Maryland. A few >> family >> members remained in Franklin until their deaths in the 1850s and 1860s. >> Franklin was part of 2 other counties over the years that my family was >> there, making it a challenge to find records. It seems like it took some >> time for the knowledge of a change in the county boundaries to filter down >> to the residents who were affected. The original land grant to the family >> occurred through William Penn's organization in the early 1770s, and I was >> able to trace much of this through the land records at the Pennsylvania >> State Archives. I found quite a bit online, though would like to visit >> the >> archives in person one day, in case there is more there. >> >> Cindy in Maryland >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moore >> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 12:23 PM >> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >> >> Thank you to all who have responded to my note about early Sussex records. >> >> Barb Holmes: It might be helpful to numerous Listers if you would take the >> time to tell us about the records you saw in Harrisburg. I know you told >> us >> about the book that explains the history of the records. I'm asking about >> the specifics of where one goes in Harrisburg and exactly what one asks to >> see. Hey, I'm old and need all the help I can get! >> >> Thank you, kindly. >> >> Jim Moore >> >> >>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Barb Holmes <bholmes@austin.rr.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> When I visited Harrisburg, PA to look at their holdings of original >>> Pennsylvania/Delaware deeds, I was told that Donna Bingham Munger had >>> just written a book, Pennsylvania Land Records, A History and Guide >>> for, published in1991, which they said this book would explain and >>> help in understanding why our ancestor Robert Holmes' Delaware land >>> record along Mispillion Creek, was being held in Harrisburg, PA. Also >>> this book would explain why his son John Holmes had to re-register the >>> deed in 1754 in Harrisburg, PA, after his father Robert Holmes died. >>> Donna Munger was chief of the Division of Land Records, 1986-1989. >>> The book does a good job of explaining the deeds of this PA/DE area. >>> How confusing for the people who lived in the area when it came time >>> to pay their taxes, as Peter Waples found out the hard way. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joseph >>> Lake >>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:58 PM >>> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>> >>> Jane Mc Donnell, Jim Moore & List......While I cannot add to your >>> material, I have a genealogical brick wall with almost the same >>> specifications: 1723 Sussex Co, DE; possibly Scots Irish; >>> Presbyterians (Cool Spring Church); Broadkill 100 (around Milton); etc. >>> >>> I read both of your e-mails in this (so far) short string with great >>> interest. I have found a Sussex 1723 land deed involving Archibald >>> Hopkins >>> (purchaser) of Sussex and a niece of Sheriff Cantwell (seller,New >>> Castle Co, >>> DE) for land in Sussex, recorded in Sussex. No record in New Castle >>> and NO earlier documents in Sussex, so the current facts seem to show >>> that Archibald Hopkins arrived in Sussex c1723. >>> >>> With the detail contained in Jim Moores' and Jane McDonnells' e=mails >>> one aspect of the brick wall is deciding where (which county, state) >>> to try and find Archibald Hopkins before c1723??? If you had these >>> facts, how would you use them to proceed? >>> >>> Joe Lake >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jane McDonnell >>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:53 AM >>> Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 >>> >>> Jim, >>> >>> Since you asked about a specific date, I would say Sussex County, >>> Delaware was not reliably used in records until 1775. For the area in >>> question, records would "probably" be in Accomac or Northampton, VA, >>> part of the East Shore Colonies (they also have fluid boundaries, see >>> my note at the end) or in Pennsylvania archives (the southern >>> counties, Sussex on the Delaware, New Castle). I've been working >>> extraordinarily hard trying to sort out these references. So, I too >>> would love anyone's dating/boundaries. Although called Sussex >>> (territory of Pennsylvania) from an early date, most of the lowest >>> county was "Somerset Co, MD" (part also was Dorchester and Worcester, >>> MD even shown as New Castle on a 1668 map) before the Mason Dixon line >>> was drawn. Land patents were continuing to be granted by Maryland >>> throughout the decades of dispute. Sussex also seems to have had a >>> fluid border with Kent Co. especially with a major town straddling the >>> county line (Milford north and south). I have family (Hazzard) in the >>> Bridgeville and Seaford area, and Burtons in Broadkill/ln Hundred who >>> didn't know the county or the state they lived in during their lives. >>> Their land patents in the NW Fork area were granted by Maryland, and >>> one ancestor thought he had lived his life in Maryland only to have >>> history posthumously correct him. He had been a Delawarian for the >>> last 58 years of his life. >>> >>> As you point out, Delaware was referred to in many records as "the >>> lower counties of Delaware, (or Sussex), in the territories (or >>> province) of Pennsylvania" from it's earliest days until much longer >>> than it seems to have been necessary - nearly the 19th century. I >>> imagine because of a centralized government system that gave the >>> Pennsylvania Assembly sway over the area for a good long time (which I >>> have no end date for). Was Philadelphia the seat of power until >>> statehood was granted to Delaware? Or did things change before/after >>> that? >>> >>> I have started to write a narrative to try to sort out the political >>> history of the Hundreds of Delaware. Every time I read a new history >>> document of the area, or find judicial findings for a new generation, >>> I have to go back in and make new notations. Now it is as confusing as >>> a family tree with the ancestral lines confused (another oddity that >>> DelMarVa seems prone to - so much documentation, so much >>> misinterpretation!). >>> >>> I would love to hear input from anyone. If anyone wants to read my >>> "confusing notes", I have added a few of them below. (I have collected >>> this information to add to my notes from the easily attainable >>> "History of the Hundreds of Delaware") >>> >>> That portion of my notes follows: >>> >>> BROADCREEK HUNDRED >>> Early settlers came from Virginia and Maryland, the largest earliest >>> colonial group from: >>> 1) Accomac Shire (1634) >>> became Northampton (1642) >>> Split and became Accomac County to the north and Northampton in the >>> south >>> (1663) >>> Accomac became Accomack in (1940) >>> 2) And some settlers also from Pennsylvania. >>> >>> First land records date from 1680. Being heavily settled by Nanticoke >>> Indians, a reservation was made of 500 acres were Laurel(town) now >>> stands. >>> The Indians were moved further west. Families of note include, >>> Collins, Ellegood and Derrickson and later Marvil. Other towns were >>> Seaford and Concord which was laid out in 1796. These are the towns >>> associated with our branch of Hazzards. Lewisville became Bethel in1880. >>> >>> LITTLE CREEK HUNDRED >>> Was settled with many official records assuming it was Somerset, MD >>> with land patents recording the land was in MD, till the border >>> dispute was settled.The generations born before 1775 have a good >>> chance their birth was actually in Delaware, though the records will list >> MD. >>> Other border anomalies: The town of Milford is in both Kent and Sussex >>> Co. >>> For purposes of our family tree we assume they were in Sussex Co. but >>> records for Kent should be double checked >>> >>> beginning in 1682 this piece of Delaware was ceded to Penn and became >>> known as Sussex County in the territories of Pennsylvania see docs in >>> folder from church records as "evidence" >>> >>> See the history of Somerset County on wikipedia. >>> >>> The part of Somerset Co, MD that was to become Indian River and maybe >>> most of Sussex, in the eastern Hundreds at least, was once called >>> "Worcester Manor" and then Worcester County, MD. perhaps with >>> different boundaries, from at least 1721. >>> >>> Somerset was early Sussex area as far as Rehoboth settlement, so >>> virtually the same as Sussex and part of Kent. It bordered Accomac County >> VA. >>> Original >>> settlers were from Accomac VA and immigrating Scot-Irish Prespyterians >>> >>> Records from the 1600s thru most of the 1700s will be originally VA or >>> MD. >>> It won't be reliably Delaware until after 1775. >>> >>> see also Pennsylvania, as Delaware was originally a province of >>> William Penn's land grant. >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/17thcentury/1688morden.jpg >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg >>> And you can see it could be referred to as Newcastle, or Somerset >>> http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg Occasionally referred to >>> as the "southern counties" of PA or the "Eastern Shore Colony" of MD >>> or VA. >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> *************************************** >>> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >>> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >>> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jim Thanks for the info on the Kent Co. Hopkins family. As written below they are 2 generations later than my brick wall, but the info should be useful to other researchers. I've looked at various records for the Kent Co. Hopkins on several occasions and there never seemed to be a connection for me. It "pays" to look and I almost always do. Thanks again. Joe Lake For HOPKINS researchers in Kent Co, I have the line for Jane Hopkins (c1786-1871), dau of Zebulon Hopkins and Sarah Barwick. Jane married James Layton. They lived in the extreme SW corner of Mispillion 100. Many of their offspring migrated a few miles into Caroline Co. Would be glad to share the line. Jim Moore Wet in Wilmington On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Jane McDonnell <jdmcdonnell@comcast.net>wrote: > Joe > > You may already have this, I found it while searching for my Hazzard > family in this line at Broadkiln, and I thought I'd search for you too. It > doesn't help your quest to go further back in history, but I wanted to > post > it before I forgot about it. > > from this website: > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/i/Donald-L-McIlvain/GENE1-0003.html > > > Deed Book M, No. 12, p. 458, Sussex Co., DE. > > 5 Aug 1782. Deed. Between Archibald Hopkins of Sussex Co. and wife > Prudence and William Peery, Sussex Co. Tract in Broadkiln Hundred, 200 > acres, being part of a larger tract granted by patent dated 2nd of 2nd > month 1686 to William Clark for 800 acres called Mill Plantation which 200 > acres aforesaid the said William Clark by deed of sale conveyed to Mathew > Ozburn who conveyed it to Thomas Bedwell and Honer Bedwell his wife which > they by deed of sale conveyed to William Clark son of William Clark who > conveyed same to John Fisher and he by deed of sale conveyed to Enoch > Commings and Enoch Commings and Hannah his wife conveyed the same to > Robert > Smith who dying indebted to sundry persons the 200 acres was sold for > payment of debt and conveyed by Ryves Holt and John Neill, exrs. of Robert > Smith to James McIlvain who devised the same to his son David McIlvain who > died intestate and the above Archibald Hopkins who married his eldest > daughter the above named Prudence preferred a p! > etition to the Orphans Court to make partition of the said 200 acres > among the several heirs but the five freeholders appointed to divide the > land reported that the land would not admit of being divided and a > valuation was made. Beginning at a corner oak in Coolspring Branch; County > Road leading to the town of Lewes; Scudder's line. 2 parcels of 213 and 18 > acres, for 500 pounds. Wit: James Vent, Samuel Hudson. Ackn. 7 Aug 1782. > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have had Ancestry and Family Finder DNA from FamilytreeDNA.  I used both tests on Gedmatch where you can see the Native American.  A lot of the results depend on the population that the test provides for comparison.   ________________________________ From: Mike Hitch (Droid) <mikehitch@mikehitch.com> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in Somerset County Maryland Off topic, I think you'll find the 23andme controversy rooted in politics and big money in the powerful insurance lobby. From what I have seen and experienced with them, their scientific rigor with their testing is quite good. The question with them is genetic testing for medical info., not genealogy, and that is why the FDA is targeting them. I have used their testing and that of nutrigenomics to help find a way to treat my Lyme disease.... by understanding genetic shortcomings of my methylation pathways and my ability to detox Lyme toxins. What I found out, and subsequent treatments based upon that information, has truly given me my life back. IMO, mainstream medicine is either afraid of the breakthroughs that might result from a genetic-based medical treatment (because they cannot sell us 100s of pills to take) or they just do not know what to do with it yet. Eventually, we'll know, but that's a subject for a different forum. As for the genealogical use of DNA testing, the value of it is well-known as very useful...the problem arises with the interpretation of results - exactly what you point out! DNA testing will always yield the same results, a unique fingerprint of our individual makeup, however, issues can arise when trying to interpret results while comparing DNA across the years and to derive conclusions of ancestry. So, there's the caveat emptor! Make sure, if using DNA testing for genealogical research, you use reputable organizations to help interpret findings! M Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Jane McDonnell <jdmcdonnell@comcast.net> wrote: >Barbara, > >I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. > >The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this is from the news on Yahoo: > >> In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the company has made claims not backed with solid science. > >So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the service. > >Best regards, >Jane >*************************************** >QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Off topic, I think you'll find the 23andme controversy rooted in politics and big money in the powerful insurance lobby. From what I have seen and experienced with them, their scientific rigor with their testing is quite good. The question with them is genetic testing for medical info., not genealogy, and that is why the FDA is targeting them. I have used their testing and that of nutrigenomics to help find a way to treat my Lyme disease.... by understanding genetic shortcomings of my methylation pathways and my ability to detox Lyme toxins. What I found out, and subsequent treatments based upon that information, has truly given me my life back. IMO, mainstream medicine is either afraid of the breakthroughs that might result from a genetic-based medical treatment (because they cannot sell us 100s of pills to take) or they just do not know what to do with it yet. Eventually, we'll know, but that's a subject for a different forum. As for the genealogical use of DNA testing, the value of it is well-known as very useful...the problem arises with the interpretation of results - exactly what you point out! DNA testing will always yield the same results, a unique fingerprint of our individual makeup, however, issues can arise when trying to interpret results while comparing DNA across the years and to derive conclusions of ancestry. So, there's the caveat emptor! Make sure, if using DNA testing for genealogical research, you use reputable organizations to help interpret findings! M Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Jane McDonnell <jdmcdonnell@comcast.net> wrote: >Barbara, > >I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. > >The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this is from the news on Yahoo: > >> In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the company has made claims not backed with solid science. > >So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the service. > >Best regards, >Jane >*************************************** >QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would not think that correct as five generations back means 32 individuals... a little over 3% of DNA if just one individual is native. Seems to me that you would be able to detect much lower levels than this! However, if you are talking 5x great grandparents, that dilutes the genetics town to 1/256...dunno where the threshold lies. Mike Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Anne Ramsby <amramsby@gmail.com> wrote: >May I interject here with both a comment and a question. I have been told I >had Native American on my mother's side of the family, and if correct, it >would be either her great-grandmother or great-great grandmother, so for >her, at least 3-4 generations off. >When researching recently whether I could learn whether I had Native >American in my DNA, I also read that by the 5th generation away, the amount >might be so diluted that it would not be recognized in a DNA test. Has >anyone heard of this, or knows more about it? >Anne > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jane McDonnell >Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 5:29 PM >To: RiverView Farm ; lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in SomersetCounty >Maryland > >Barbara, > >I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at >the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each >test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is >virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited >information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common >ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just >one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you >will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their >intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently >which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. >Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is >not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes >over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't >be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. > >The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one >person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's >news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been >told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to >find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should >other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this >is from the news on Yahoo: > >> In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests >> for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered >> home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its >> saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the >> company has made claims not backed with solid science. > >So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether >to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be >very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the >service. > >Best regards, >Jane >*************************************** >QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >*************************************** >QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

May I interject here with both a comment and a question. I have been told I had Native American on my mother's side of the family, and if correct, it would be either her great-grandmother or great-great grandmother, so for her, at least 3-4 generations off. When researching recently whether I could learn whether I had Native American in my DNA, I also read that by the 5th generation away, the amount might be so diluted that it would not be recognized in a DNA test. Has anyone heard of this, or knows more about it? Anne -----Original Message----- From: Jane McDonnell Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 5:29 PM To: RiverView Farm ; lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in SomersetCounty Maryland Barbara, I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this is from the news on Yahoo: > In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests > for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered > home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its > saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the > company has made claims not backed with solid science. So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the service. Best regards, Jane *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I agree with you Mike on both areas of DNA testing. I think the medical testing is invaluable info that will change the medical community given the chance. I had planned to give each of my three daughters a 23andme test for Christmas. One major reason was that their mother had breast cancer. I thought if they were a carrier of the gene, it would be better to know while they are young & treatable. Rather than to lose them to this horrible disease. after they had been diagnosed in the 4th stage later in life. When very little can be done to save their life.  I've done extensive genealogical DNA testing myself, thats helped me many ways. One reason its been a wonderful tool because I have an adoption in my male bloodline, that 13 years of paper research had not yielded any results. I've found cousins thru the testing, have better idea of factually 'where my people came from'.  DNA testing is in it's infancy. More people are learning of the genealogical aspect, which is yielding a  larger database. Technology will continue to fine tune these tests & the way we interpret them. I'm excited what results have yielded for me personally. The pricing is reasonable. I am able to, going forward, to continue getting new info as other people jump on board to this service and are added to the database. Just my two cents!!   Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. Mike Adkins On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 7:13 PM, Mike Hitch (Droid) <mikehitch@mikehitch.com> wrote: Off topic, I think you'll find the 23andme controversy rooted in politics and big money in the powerful insurance lobby. From what I have seen and experienced with them, their scientific rigor with their testing is quite good. The question with them is genetic testing for medical info., not genealogy, and that is why the FDA is targeting them. I have used their testing and that of nutrigenomics to help find a way to treat my Lyme disease.... by understanding genetic shortcomings of my methylation pathways and my ability to detox Lyme toxins. What I found out, and subsequent treatments based upon that information, has truly given me my life back. IMO, mainstream medicine is either afraid of the breakthroughs that might result from a genetic-based medical treatment (because they cannot sell us 100s of pills to take) or they just do not know what to do with it yet. Eventually, we'll know, but that's a subject for a different forum. As for the genealogical use of DNA testing, the value of it is well-known as very useful...the problem arises with the interpretation of results - exactly what you point out! DNA testing will always yield the same results, a unique fingerprint of our individual makeup, however, issues can arise when trying to interpret results while comparing DNA across the years and to derive conclusions of ancestry. So, there's the caveat emptor! Make sure, if using DNA testing for genealogical research, you use reputable organizations to help interpret findings! M Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID Jane McDonnell <jdmcdonnell@comcast.net> wrote: >Barbara, > >I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. > >The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this is from the news on Yahoo: > >> In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the company has made claims not backed with solid science. > >So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the service. > >Best regards, >Jane >*************************************** >QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Barbara, I'm not Rob Hall, but I want to say how important it is for you to look at the companies offering this service, and read very, very carefully what each test can and can't tell you. For instance the 12 marker cheap test is virtually useless. Even more expensive versions give you limited information. It might tell you if distant relatives have the same common ancestor in the male line for example. But that is a simplification of just one of the claims. The data base is still small, and the information you will get varies greatly, and for most people it will prove useless for their intended outcome. Some people have gotten "retests" from Ancestry recently which altered completely the results of their original testing outcomes. Ancestry says it is because of better procedures being introduced. This is not assuring.This is a highly, and I mean HIGHLY debated topic that takes over and messes up genealogy message boards on a routine basis. I wouldn't be surprised if the monitor of this list forbids it as a topic. The bottom line is to do your own homework, because what was useful for one person, with one surname, may not be useful to you. One note from today's news, the already controversial Google inflected company 23andme has been told to stop selling its medical DNA tests. Funny thing: it is difficult to find this news item that was on CNN just today - on a Google search. Should other unregulated uses of DNA also be suspect? You decide. In any case this is from the news on Yahoo: > In a move likely to heighten a longstanding controversy about DNA tests for health risks, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has ordered home genetic test maker 23andMe to “immediately discontinue” marketing its saliva collection kit and Personal Genome Service, charging that the company has made claims not backed with solid science. So, I believe it should be everyone's right to decide for themselves whether to use DNA kits for any genealogical purpose, but I urge you to please be very careful to research your choices and the outcome guaranteed by the service. Best regards, Jane

This is a question for Rob Hall.  Where did your get your DNA testing done?   I have seen advertisements online, but have not talked to anyone who actually had it done.  I did not want to invest in something that was just false advertising.  I would like to contact a reputable lab for this test. Thanks, Barbara On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:27 AM, C. R. V. Hall <laien@aol.com> wrote: Barbara, There do not seem to be many references to native Americans in Somerset County records for the early 1800's.  By that time it appears most Native Americans had left the area of the original Somerset County. One source for remnant groups on the DelMarVa can be found here:  http://nativeamericansofdelawarestate.com/ Another good source is  Eastern Shore (American) Indians of Virginia and Maryland by Dr. Helen C. Rountree, professor emeritus of anthropology - Old Dominion University.  She is widely acknowledged as the leading researcher and writer on Virginia Indians and one of the leading researchers on East Coast tribes. A number of local families have, or claim to have, some tradition of Native American ancestry, including my own.  However it seems that in the majority of cases no actual physical (historical) or scientific proof which would prove a definite link to one of the early tribes has come to light.  Speaking solely of my own family background, which includes many of the early settlers of the lower shore area, there doesn't seem to be any proof of the tradition.  One easy way to find out would be to take a simple DNA test which would indicate any trace of Native American ancestry.  I have had two such tests done independently by two different companies.  The results from both companies were the same ......... an overwhelming majority European with no trace of Native American or sub-Saharan African. Good luck with your search, Rob Hall -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-request <lower-delmarva-roots-request@rootsweb.com> To: lower-delmarva-roots <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2013 3:06 am Subject: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 122 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:57:11 -0800 (PST) From: RiverView Farm <rvrvue1890@yahoo.com> Subject: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in Somerset County     Maryland To: "lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com"     <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Message-ID:     <1385474231.54068.YahooMailNeo@web160601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Can anyone tell me what tribes were in Somerset and surrounding counties in the early 1800s??? My great-great grandmother might have been Native American.? An elderly cousin told me that she did not like to go out in public because people called her a "squaw".?? Her daughter, my great-grandmother, was dark with brown eyes, and when she died at 92 her hair was still black.? My grandfather looked like her.? She had a very "American/English" name, Sarah Jane Taylor.? However, perhaps her mother was NA and married a white man, or vice-versa.? Her death record does not state who her parents were.? She died in Westmoreland Co. Virginia in the 1870s.? She was probably born in the early 1820s. Any information you can give me about Native Americans in Lower Delmarva would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Barbara McCrea Kinsale, Virginia ***************************** *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For HOPKINS researchers in Kent Co, I have the line for Jane Hopkins (c1786-1871), dau of Zebulon Hopkins and Sarah Barwick. Jane married James Layton. They lived in the extreme SW corner of Mispillion 100. Many of their offspring migrated a few miles into Caroline Co. Would be glad to share the line. Jim Moore Wet in Wilmington On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:55 PM, Jane McDonnell <jdmcdonnell@comcast.net>wrote: > Joe > > You may already have this, I found it while searching for my Hazzard > family in this line at Broadkiln, and I thought I'd search for you too. It > doesn't help your quest to go further back in history, but I wanted to post > it before I forgot about it. > > from this website: > http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/c/i/Donald-L-McIlvain/GENE1-0003.html > > > Deed Book M, No. 12, p. 458, Sussex Co., DE. > > 5 Aug 1782. Deed. Between Archibald Hopkins of Sussex Co. and wife > Prudence and William Peery, Sussex Co. Tract in Broadkiln Hundred, 200 > acres, being part of a larger tract granted by patent dated 2nd of 2nd > month 1686 to William Clark for 800 acres called Mill Plantation which 200 > acres aforesaid the said William Clark by deed of sale conveyed to Mathew > Ozburn who conveyed it to Thomas Bedwell and Honer Bedwell his wife which > they by deed of sale conveyed to William Clark son of William Clark who > conveyed same to John Fisher and he by deed of sale conveyed to Enoch > Commings and Enoch Commings and Hannah his wife conveyed the same to Robert > Smith who dying indebted to sundry persons the 200 acres was sold for > payment of debt and conveyed by Ryves Holt and John Neill, exrs. of Robert > Smith to James McIlvain who devised the same to his son David McIlvain who > died intestate and the above Archibald Hopkins who married his eldest > daughter the above named Prudence preferred a p! > etition to the Orphans Court to make partition of the said 200 acres > among the several heirs but the five freeholders appointed to divide the > land reported that the land would not admit of being divided and a > valuation was made. Beginning at a corner oak in Coolspring Branch; County > Road leading to the town of Lewes; Scudder's line. 2 parcels of 213 and 18 > acres, for 500 pounds. Wit: James Vent, Samuel Hudson. Ackn. 7 Aug 1782. > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Barbara, There do not seem to be many references to native Americans in Somerset County records for the early 1800's. By that time it appears most Native Americans had left the area of the original Somerset County. One source for remnant groups on the DelMarVa can be found here: http://nativeamericansofdelawarestate.com/ Another good source is Eastern Shore (American) Indians of Virginia and Maryland by Dr. Helen C. Rountree, professor emeritus of anthropology - Old Dominion University. She is widely acknowledged as the leading researcher and writer on Virginia Indians and one of the leading researchers on East Coast tribes. A number of local families have, or claim to have, some tradition of Native American ancestry, including my own. However it seems that in the majority of cases no actual physical (historical) or scientific proof which would prove a definite link to one of the early tribes has come to light. Speaking solely of my own family background, which includes many of the early settlers of the lower shore area, there doesn't seem to be any proof of the tradition. One easy way to find out would be to take a simple DNA test which would indicate any trace of Native American ancestry. I have had two such tests done independently by two different companies. The results from both companies were the same ......... an overwhelming majority European with no trace of Native American or sub-Saharan African. Good luck with your search, Rob Hall -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-request <lower-delmarva-roots-request@rootsweb.com> To: lower-delmarva-roots <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2013 3:06 am Subject: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 122 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 05:57:11 -0800 (PST) From: RiverView Farm <rvrvue1890@yahoo.com> Subject: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in Somerset County Maryland To: "lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com" <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <1385474231.54068.YahooMailNeo@web160601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Can anyone tell me what tribes were in Somerset and surrounding counties in the early 1800s??? My great-great grandmother might have been Native American.? An elderly cousin told me that she did not like to go out in public because people called her a "squaw".?? Her daughter, my great-grandmother, was dark with brown eyes, and when she died at 92 her hair was still black.? My grandfather looked like her.? She had a very "American/English" name, Sarah Jane Taylor.? However, perhaps her mother was NA and married a white man, or vice-versa.? Her death record does not state who her parents were.? She died in Westmoreland Co. Virginia in the 1870s.? She was probably born in the early 1820s. Any information you can give me about Native Americans in Lower Delmarva would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Barbara McCrea Kinsale, Virginia *****************************

Jim, Have you looked at this site for PA Land Records?: http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=3184&&SortOrde r=100&level=4&parentCommID=3162&menuLevel=Level_4&mode=2 -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jim Moore Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 11:23 AM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 Thank you to all who have responded to my note about early Sussex records. Barb Holmes: It might be helpful to numerous Listers if you would take the time to tell us about the records you saw in Harrisburg. I know you told us about the book that explains the history of the records. I'm asking about the specifics of where one goes in Harrisburg and exactly what one asks to see. Hey, I'm old and need all the help I can get! Thank you, kindly. Jim Moore On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Barb Holmes <bholmes@austin.rr.com> wrote: > When I visited Harrisburg, PA to look at their holdings of original > Pennsylvania/Delaware deeds, I was told that Donna Bingham Munger had > just written a book, Pennsylvania Land Records, A History and Guide > for, published in1991, which they said this book would explain and > help in understanding why our ancestor Robert Holmes' Delaware land > record along Mispillion Creek, was being held in Harrisburg, PA. Also > this book would explain why his son John Holmes had to re-register the > deed in 1754 in Harrisburg, PA, after his father Robert Holmes died. > Donna Munger was chief of the Division of Land Records, 1986-1989. > The book does a good job of explaining the deeds of this PA/DE area. > How confusing for the people who lived in the area when it came time > to pay their taxes, as Peter Waples found out the hard way. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joseph > Lake > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:58 PM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 > > Jane Mc Donnell, Jim Moore & List......While I cannot add to your > material, I have a genealogical brick wall with almost the same > specifications: 1723 Sussex Co, DE; possibly Scots Irish; > Presbyterians (Cool Spring Church); Broadkill 100 (around Milton); etc. > > I read both of your e-mails in this (so far) short string with great > interest. I have found a Sussex 1723 land deed involving Archibald > Hopkins > (purchaser) of Sussex and a niece of Sheriff Cantwell (seller,New > Castle Co, > DE) for land in Sussex, recorded in Sussex. No record in New Castle > and NO earlier documents in Sussex, so the current facts seem to show > that Archibald Hopkins arrived in Sussex c1723. > > With the detail contained in Jim Moores' and Jane McDonnells' e=mails > one aspect of the brick wall is deciding where (which county, state) > to try and find Archibald Hopkins before c1723??? If you had these > facts, how would you use them to proceed? > > Joe Lake > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jane McDonnell > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 > > Jim, > > Since you asked about a specific date, I would say Sussex County, > Delaware was not reliably used in records until 1775. For the area in > question, records would "probably" be in Accomac or Northampton, VA, > part of the East Shore Colonies (they also have fluid boundaries, see > my note at the end) or in Pennsylvania archives (the southern > counties, Sussex on the Delaware, New Castle). I've been working > extraordinarily hard trying to sort out these references. So, I too > would love anyone's dating/boundaries. Although called Sussex > (territory of Pennsylvania) from an early date, most of the lowest > county was "Somerset Co, MD" (part also was Dorchester and Worcester, > MD even shown as New Castle on a 1668 map) before the Mason Dixon line > was drawn. Land patents were continuing to be granted by Maryland > throughout the decades of dispute. Sussex also seems to have had a > fluid border with Kent Co. especially with a major town straddling the > county line (Milford north and south). I have family (Hazzard) in the > Bridgeville and Seaford area, and Burtons in Broadkill/ln Hundred who > didn't know the county or the state they lived in during their lives. > Their land patents in the NW Fork area were granted by Maryland, and > one ancestor thought he had lived his life in Maryland only to have > history posthumously correct him. He had been a Delawarian for the > last 58 years of his life. > > As you point out, Delaware was referred to in many records as "the > lower counties of Delaware, (or Sussex), in the territories (or > province) of Pennsylvania" from it's earliest days until much longer > than it seems to have been necessary - nearly the 19th century. I > imagine because of a centralized government system that gave the > Pennsylvania Assembly sway over the area for a good long time (which I > have no end date for). Was Philadelphia the seat of power until > statehood was granted to Delaware? Or did things change before/after that? > > I have started to write a narrative to try to sort out the political > history of the Hundreds of Delaware. Every time I read a new history > document of the area, or find judicial findings for a new generation, > I have to go back in and make new notations. Now it is as confusing as > a family tree with the ancestral lines confused (another oddity that > DelMarVa seems prone to - so much documentation, so much > misinterpretation!). > > I would love to hear input from anyone. If anyone wants to read my > "confusing notes", I have added a few of them below. (I have collected > this information to add to my notes from the easily attainable > "History of the Hundreds of Delaware") > > That portion of my notes follows: > > BROADCREEK HUNDRED > Early settlers came from Virginia and Maryland, the largest earliest > colonial group from: > 1) Accomac Shire (1634) > became Northampton (1642) > Split and became Accomac County to the north and Northampton in the > south > (1663) > Accomac became Accomack in (1940) > 2) And some settlers also from Pennsylvania. > > First land records date from 1680. Being heavily settled by Nanticoke > Indians, a reservation was made of 500 acres were Laurel(town) now stands. > The Indians were moved further west. Families of note include, > Collins, Ellegood and Derrickson and later Marvil. Other towns were > Seaford and Concord which was laid out in 1796. These are the towns > associated with our branch of Hazzards. Lewisville became Bethel in1880. > > LITTLE CREEK HUNDRED > Was settled with many official records assuming it was Somerset, MD > with land patents recording the land was in MD, till the border > dispute was settled.The generations born before 1775 have a good > chance their birth was actually in Delaware, though the records will list MD. > > Other border anomalies: The town of Milford is in both Kent and Sussex Co. > For purposes of our family tree we assume they were in Sussex Co. but > records for Kent should be double checked > > beginning in 1682 this piece of Delaware was ceded to Penn and became > known as Sussex County in the territories of Pennsylvania see docs in > folder from church records as "evidence" > > See the history of Somerset County on wikipedia. > > The part of Somerset Co, MD that was to become Indian River and maybe > most of Sussex, in the eastern Hundreds at least, was once called > "Worcester Manor" and then Worcester County, MD. perhaps with > different boundaries, from at least 1721. > > Somerset was early Sussex area as far as Rehoboth settlement, so > virtually the same as Sussex and part of Kent. It bordered Accomac County VA. > Original > settlers were from Accomac VA and immigrating Scot-Irish Prespyterians > > Records from the 1600s thru most of the 1700s will be originally VA or MD. > It won't be reliably Delaware until after 1775. > > see also Pennsylvania, as Delaware was originally a province of > William Penn's land grant. > http://www.mapsofpa.com/17thcentury/1688morden.jpg > http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg > And you can see it could be referred to as Newcastle, or Somerset > http://www.mapsofpa.com/18thcentury/s627.jpg Occasionally referred to > as the "southern counties" of PA or the "Eastern Shore Colony" of MD > or VA. > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HI, WOULD WHOEVER IS LOOKING FOR SARAH JANE TAYLOR PLEASE CONTACT ME BAACK. I MIGHT HAVE A LINE ON HER FAMILY BUT I NEED TO KNOW HER MARRIAGE INFO AND OTHER INFO. EITHER ON LDR OR CONTACT ME AT HOME. lenorah123@comcast.net. ANOTHER TAYLER AND I ARE CHECKING IN OUR RECORDS. NORAH COLLINS

check out http://nativeamericansofdelawarestate.com KUSKARAWOAK & MITSAWOKETT "The History and Genealogy of the Native American Isolate Communities of Kent County, Delaware, and Surrounding Areas on the Delmarva Peninsula and Southern New Jersey" Marjorie "Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars."~ Henry Van Dyke On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:57 AM, RiverView Farm <rvrvue1890@yahoo.com>wrote: > Can anyone tell me what tribes were in Somerset and surrounding counties > in the early 1800s? My great-great grandmother might have been Native > American. An elderly cousin told me that she did not like to go out in > public because people called her a "squaw". Her daughter, my > great-grandmother, was dark with brown eyes, and when she died at 92 her > hair was still black. My grandfather looked like her. > > > She had a very "American/English" name, Sarah Jane Taylor. However, > perhaps her mother was NA and married a white man, or vice-versa. Her > death record does not state who her parents were. She died in Westmoreland > Co. Virginia in the 1870s. She was probably born in the early 1820s. > > > Any information you can give me about Native Americans in Lower Delmarva > would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > Barbara McCrea > Kinsale, Virginia > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Stuart The link to this thesis/dissertation is fantastic. It has totally opened my eyes to the possibilities and explanations of why some of my Eastern Shore family lines have never appeared in any Revolutionary War records. My Caleb Tingle, Levin Long and maybe John Pollitt were probably loyalists who just sat on their hands rather than signing oaths and/or joining the militias. These were Somerset and Worcester Cos. families who stayed during and after the Rev War. Deep roots in their communities. Funny that I joined the SAR on my patronymic Rev War Patriot, Henry Baer, of Frederick Co, MD. But my mother joined the DAR on her Eastern Shore Rev War Patriot, Esau Williams, of the Worcester Co. militia. It sounds like the Eastern Shore was as divided during the Rev War as it was during the Civil War. Tx for sharing this link. It is a long read but completely engrossing. Richard Baer -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Bechman Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:38 PM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 + general migrations - Broad Creek) Not sure if this might be the explanation you are seeking, but I just recently found a 1998 PhD dissertation paper on-line about the lower Delmarva peninsula, especially Sussex County, Delaware being a hotbed of Loyalist "Tory" support for the British as the Revolutionary War broke out: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape11/PQDD_0003/NQ41532.pdf It could be that when war broke out, those who favored staying with Britain joined their compatriots in lower DelMarVa (or perhaps the revolutionaries invaded to secure the land for the US?) This is also the source where I learned that transportation in the lower Delmarva was by boats, not by road. -Stuart Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:06:06 -0500 (EST) From: ARHGenealogy@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Sussex Co in 1723 + general migrations - Broad Creek) Slightly off track (but not too far, I hope): In History of Delaware, Scharf says about Broad Creek Hundred: "The Penns never exercised their authority in this hundred prior to the settlement of the division line, and there does not appear of record any mention of any land granted by them prior to 1776. There were very few settlements made in the hundred prior to 1730, and those mainly on the streams in the southwestern section. Large portions of the land remained vacant for years, and it was not until the year 1838 that the last piece of vacant land in the hundred was granted. The early settlers came from Maryland and Virginia, and in the year 1776 large numbers emigrated from the upper part of the State and from Pennsylvania." I haven't found any other source that talks of a migration "from the upper part of the State and from Pennsylvania" to Broad Creek in 1776. Does anyone have any info on that? What would be the reason--escaping the revolution, cheap land, religion, or something else? Andrew H. *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Stuart, Andrew, Joe and George This migration where/when/how is an amazing question, and has far reaching historical significance. I just read in a history of Delaware County PA, that cheap land (free rent for five years for example) was offered to populate the more dismal areas south and west of Philadelphia. Something like that may have also involved the New Castle area. Penn encouraged the movement into the colonies of diverse religious groups. He probably was a bit concerned about the hold of the Church of England/Episcopal church in the lower counties. The influx of Scots-Irish Presbyterians, Methodists and Quakers may have prevented the more loyalist pro-slavery citizenry of Sussex from changing the outcome of both the Revolutionary and Civil Wars by ensuring religious and political diversity. So, there may had been a plan at work around the time of the Revolution, plus the new statehood for Delaware occurring simultaneously, which encouraged migration into Kent and Sussex. I look forward to reading this dissertation to which you linked. George, your comments remind me, there is a great “story” of how one of these river towns developed in “The History of the Delaware Hundreds” I referenced earlier; how the town of Milford on the Kent/Sussex border was laid out from day one. It is a chronological journal of the families involved. I think the rivers were the Delawarians “secret weapon” as they made boats specifically to navigate the marshes and tidal rivers. They had drawbridges and everything! Where the “high land” was, and where on a river there was stable ground influenced settlement and changed the economy of Delaware. So much of the land was marsh it seemed uninhabitable and unnavigable to speculating “outsiders” looking in from the sea. It seems Lewes was the only town vulnerable to the pirates and the British Navy, and there are stories of them defending the town quite adequately. This is really interesting material to consider. It’s made me read about civil war Delaware, military encounters and religious affiliations as well as consider the rivers as roads! It has also forced me to deal with the growing evidence my families, Hazzards, Lingo, Burtons among others, were powerful loyalists, pro-slavery power mongers living next to working class cousins who were anti-British and abolitionists. It may account for the virtual disappearance of some branches of the family while others filled the history books. Even the one Revolutionary War hero in the family had a huge monument erected for him in New Jersey, while in Sussex he is forgotten and only a latter day plate in the ground marks his grave. I can’t even find his wife’s name in any record. This is the stuff I love to have context for! Thank you, gentlemen, for your thoughts! Jane

Hi, there were many tribes on the lower eastern shore. Most were relegated to small reservations in MD/DE/VA in the very early 1700s and, by the early 1800s most were either gone (relocated or decimated by disease) or assimilated into the general population (white or slave) so it's hard to tell how much original blood would be left in her line. I would recommend a very good book "Eastern Shore Indians" by Helen Roundtree for a good history of natives on the shore. Best Regards, Mike Hitch -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of RiverView Farm Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:57 AM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [LDR] A Question About Native Americans in Somerset County Maryland Can anyone tell me what tribes were in Somerset and surrounding counties in the early 1800s?   My great-great grandmother might have been Native American.  An elderly cousin told me that she did not like to go out in public because people called her a "squaw".   Her daughter, my great-grandmother, was dark with brown eyes, and when she died at 92 her hair was still black.  My grandfather looked like her.  She had a very "American/English" name, Sarah Jane Taylor.  However, perhaps her mother was NA and married a white man, or vice-versa.  Her death record does not state who her parents were.  She died in Westmoreland Co. Virginia in the 1870s.  She was probably born in the early 1820s. Any information you can give me about Native Americans in Lower Delmarva would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Barbara McCrea Kinsale, Virginia *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can anyone tell me what tribes were in Somerset and surrounding counties in the early 1800s?   My great-great grandmother might have been Native American.  An elderly cousin told me that she did not like to go out in public because people called her a "squaw".   Her daughter, my great-grandmother, was dark with brown eyes, and when she died at 92 her hair was still black.  My grandfather looked like her.  She had a very "American/English" name, Sarah Jane Taylor.  However, perhaps her mother was NA and married a white man, or vice-versa.  Her death record does not state who her parents were.  She died in Westmoreland Co. Virginia in the 1870s.  She was probably born in the early 1820s. Any information you can give me about Native Americans in Lower Delmarva would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Barbara McCrea Kinsale, Virginia