Cree, Thank you for that information. I will try your suggestion. Sylvia ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cree & Susan Newbold" <newbold@comcast.net> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [LDR] William Paul > Sylvia -- I can't help you WRT your PAUL surname. However, the lighter is > a > commemorative from the former US "listening" station at Asmara when it was > part of Ethiopia -- hence the picture of a radio tower on the lighter. It > is probably commemorating his tour of duty there from 1952-1954. > > Might be a long shot, but you could try to contact the public relations > folks at NSA at Ft. Meade to see if they might be able to tell you > anything > about this William Paul -- it was long enough ago that his presence there > might no longer be a state secret!! :) > > Good luck. > > Cree Newbold > > -----Original Message----- > From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia > Greenhawk > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:55 AM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LDR] William Paul > > I have recently obtained a cigarette lighter with the following engraving > on > it > William Paul > 1952 - 1954 > ASMARA - ERITREA > on the front is a picture of a globe of the world with what appears to be > a > radio tower rising out of it. Attached to the back is a coin from East > Africa , the lighter was made in the USA. I am researching the PAUL > family > surname and would like to know who this William PAUL is so if the > description of this lighter is familiar to anyone and you have information > about William Paul I would appreciate your help. Sylvia > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dave Kearney wrote (most paragraphs edited): "What I find very interesting is that we seem to have something going on here between Norman French and Anglo-Saxon; in other words, I see here another example of the dual vocabulary that still exists side by side between those two languages that met each other back in 1066 after the Norman invasion of England. John Lyon also wrote (some paragraphs edited): All too often. When a party is named "cousin" in a will (e.g.), it is not so much a concrete identifier as the introductory red flag to a puzzle for the reader to unravel. It may mean blood (including nephews and nieces), it may mean in-law (including in-law of in-law), and sometimes it seems to have been happily applied to some blood brother, long-standing drinking buddy or such. Now, it may be that the use can always be pegged to (actually based in) some familial relationship, but I do know that some of the instances found have no solution in determinable kinship based on surviving records. Another vague hand-waving term in the records is "kinsman", which at least has the nice feature of self-referential fuzziness, not herding the reader to leap at a specific assumption. ================================================================= I have encountered the use of the word "friends" in a 1741 Sussex will, in which the subject of the will used "friends" to chaaracterize his co-executors. Subsequent research has led to one of John's "introductory red flags".....i.e. it appears that one of the executors might be a brother, and the wife of the other executor a sister of the subject of the will. Is there precedent (or other evidence) of such usage of the word "friends" in Colonial times. If one merely accepts the current literal usage of friends, there would seem to be no necessity of having used the word in the will at all (& the use did not appear to be Colonial "flowery"....the entire will was brief and prosaic). Thus it may be reasonable to try to read some "special" meaning in to the usage in the will ??????? Comments??? Joe Lake

"David Kearney" <kearneyd@erols.com> wrote: >Speakers/writers also sometimes use "cousin" to refer to non-blood relatives, <snip>, although I don't know how often such usage might be found in documents dating to the colonial period in our geographic area of interest. > All too often. When a party is named "cousin" in a will (e.g.), it is not so much a concrete identifier as the introductory red flag to a puzzle for the reader to unravel. It may mean blood (including nephews and nieces), it may mean in-law (including in-law of in-law), and sometimes it seems to have been happily applied to some blood brother, long-standing drinking buddy or such. Now, it may be that the use can always be pegged to (actually based in) some familial relationship, but I do know that some of the instances found have no solution in determinable kinship based on surviving records. Another vague hand-waving term in the records is "kinsman", which at least has the nice feature of self-referential fuzziness, not herding the reader to leap at a specific assumption. John

John wrote: >>> Back to the original topic (cousins), it's important to remember that the ancients - meaning in the colonial period - often used "cousin" to mean "nephew" or "niece", and sometimes other more distant relatives. One has to be careful in interpreting wills, lest become befuddled.<<< _______ Speakers/writers also sometimes use "cousin" to refer to non-blood relatives, certainly including individuals related by marriage but not by blood (for instance, a spouse of a "true cousin"), and even to individuals of more obscure or uncertain family connection to the writer/speaker, although I don't know how often such usage might be found in documents dating to the colonial period in our geographic area of interest. Dave K

Mike, Paul Kay has presented a fun (and challenging) academic discussion of the following "superficial morphemes" used in kinship semantics: (1) great and grand; (2) -in-law; (3) by marriage; and (4) once removed, twice removed, etc. as applied to cousin. See Paul Kay, "Constants and Variables of English Kinship Semantics," Studies in Language Variation: Semantics, Syntax, Phonology, Pragmatics, Social Situations, Ethnographic Approaches; Papers from the Third Annual Colloquium on New Ways of Analyzing Variation, held at Georgetown University in Oct. 1974, edited by Ralph W. Fasold & Roger W. Shuy (1977), pp. 297 & 298. You should be able to find much of the discussion through Google Book at http://books.google.com/books?id=5-LBJb-77hcC&pg=PA298&lpg=PA298&dq=%2Busage+%2B%22grand+uncle%22&source=web&ots=wBWfoB3vQi&sig=4W4jH6xQYJDsN8H99AKe6hbvTMk&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA297,M1. Shay even presents equations! He also uses the form, "NUNCLE," in his report apparently in part to capture the several different ways the superficial morphemes "great" and "grand" are used (properly) to describe relationships involving aunts, uncles, nieces, and nephews at different generational levels. Shay notes that the core of "English kinship semantics" has remained stable "over centuries and across continents." It's only that "certain bound morphemes [like 'great' and 'grand'] ... combine with the basic terms [like 'parent' and 'uncle'] ... to produce morphologically complex kinterms." That should clear up things! :-) Dave K

Back to the original topic (cousins), it's important to remember that the ancients - meaning in the colonial period - often used "cousin" to mean "nephew" or "niece", and sometimes other more distant relatives. One has to be careful in interpreting wills, lest become befuddled. John "Mary Lou Swank" <mlscpa@epix.net> wrote: >As for cousin relationships, there is a great chart at the following web >site:  http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=relation >I printed this out a while back and have found it invaluable when asked how >I fit into someone else's family.  It helps to go back through the >generations, too, but this chart is quite helpful in determining the cousin >relationships.

Mike Hitch wrote: >>> Wikipedia has a good article on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family. It mentions the "great aunt/uncle as 'casual' usage: ... No offense is intended to anyone who may refer to their grandmother's sister as a great aunt (as I myself do), just trying to relay information on what seems to be the proper usage based upon a number of sources.<<< -------------------------------- Mike, No offense taken here. From what I've seen, either form is "proper" usage -- grand uncle/aunt, or great uncle/aunt. I really think you and others who would prescribe either form as "proper usage" in genealogy might be confusing "proper usage" with (misguided) efforts to conform the terms into someone's sense of logical order. As the "Grammar Guy" indicates in the following discussion, we can rest easy using "grand" and "great" pretty interchangeably in identifying relatives, because "grand" and "great" mean the same thing, and simply come from two different langquages ... Norma French for "grand;" Anglo-Saxon for "great." Here is what the "Grammar Guy" has to say: " ... Even though it doesn't seem to be what the majority of English speakers say, grand uncle and grand aunt are used by some. "What I find very interesting is that we seem to have something going on here between Norman French and Anglo-Saxon; in other words, I see here another example of the dual vocabulary that still exists side by side between those two languages that met each other back in 1066 after the Norman invasion of England. "Just a couple of days ago, I answered a question on the Grammar Exchange (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x) about the words understand and comprehend. The member wanted to know if there was any difference in meaning between the two. The only difference is that the former comes from Anglo-Saxon, while the latter comes from Latin through Norman French. The difference doesn't like in meaning; it lies in usage. "I think we've got a similar case here. Great is from Anglo-Saxon, and grand is from French, but they mean the same thing. So when we say great uncle or grand uncle, we're just reflecting one origin or the term or the other. In fact, uncle is a French word! "Now, as to logic in language, my friend, that's not always so easy to come by. I can't say it's more logical to say grand uncle since we say grandfather. All I can say is that you should continue to use the terms that are more common to hear in your own family or region." http://www.azargrammar.com/grammarGuy/2008/06/were-all-entitled-part-2.html Mike, if proper usage were to follow harsh logic, perhaps we should go to calling our grandparents our greatparents, or, alternatively, begin referring to our great-grandparents as our grand-grand parents. ;-) You can find a fun discussion of this word fight at http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.genealogy.britain/2006-06/msg00865.html, a British genealogy newsgroup site, at which you'll find a fair amount of it blaming confusion on sloppy American English, but as the Grammar Guy points out, it's probably really an Anglo-Saxon English versus Norman French English struggle. See another lively discussion at http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=790378. I'm comfortable with either or both approaches ... grand and great are both great and grand with me. I think I switch back and forth myself, maybe due to the different approaches taken by the families of my three parents. Judy Ebner wrote that she always was told that the brother of her grandfather was her "great" uncle, and that she was his "grandniece." Judy's approach -- sort of a mixture of the two approaches we're discussing -- is, in fact, the same approach my primary family history software uses in displaying family blood relationships. And, upon reflection, I think this possibly is the usage I heard most growing up. Isn't language great?!!! (or is that "grand?") Dave

Growing up in SW PA, we called the sisters of our grandmother great aunts. I never heard the term grand aunt (or uncle) until well into my adult years. What I have learned in the past few years is exactly what Mike's Wikipedia articles states, that the terms great aunt and grand aunt are commonly used interchangeably. I have a number of cousins who are not interested in doing the actual research, but are quite interested in what is found about the family history. As a matter of practicality, I have taken to using the term "great grand" with a brief explanation so that I say, "Our great grand uncle, brother of our great grandmother..." This makes it easy for my cousins to follow along and know where to place that great grand uncle. Whether it's proper or not, it does make sense to others. As for cousin relationships, there is a great chart at the following web site: http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=relation I printed this out a while back and have found it invaluable when asked how I fit into someone else's family. It helps to go back through the generations, too, but this chart is quite helpful in determining the cousin relationships. Mary Lou ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hitch" <mikehitch@mikehitch.com> To: "'David Kearney'" <kearneyd@erols.com>; <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? > Wikipedia has a good article on it here: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family > It mentions the "great aunt/uncle as 'casual' usage: "When additional > generations intervene (in other words, when one's collateral relatives > belong to the same generation as one's grandparents or grandchildren), the > prefix "grand" modifies these terms. (Although in casual usage in the USA > a > "grand aunt" is often referred to as a "great aunt", for instance.) And as > with grandparents and grandchildren, as more generations intervene the > prefix becomes "great grand", adding an additional "great" for each > additional generation." Many dictionaries carry both grand aunt and great > aunt as equivalent. > > My family has always used the "great" aunt/uncle terminology; however, all > the genealogical SW I have seen also uses "Grand" aunt/uncle so I think > this > is the 'proper' usage...of course, we call our relatives many different > things based upon culture, dialect and the like - e.g., grandmother may be > granny, gramma, nan, nana, mom-mom, and a whole host of others where, > nevertheless, the 'proper' version is grandmother. No offense is intended > to > anyone who may refer to their grandmother's sister as a great aunt (as I > myself do), just trying to relay information on what seems to be the > proper > usage based upon a number of sources. Heck, I even was brought up to call > some folks near to my family but not part of them as "aunt" or "uncle". My > message was just trying to pint out the difference between the 'proper' > form > in a purely technical sense to the more casual or colloquial forms of the > kinship...no 'over-reaching' intended. > > Best Regards, > Mike Hitch > "So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never > even > know we have the key." -Eagles

Hello All, I have posted this before, but now have a new email address that should stay the same. {Comcast and Insight are no longer valid.]     I am hoping to find someone who is connected to the Bailey , Baily, Baley, Bayly families who left the Milford and Little Creek Hundred area of Delaware in about 1807. The families consisted of George and Nancy, their children: Horatio Bailey and wife Sally Hust/Hurst, Isaac Jones and wife Elizabeth Bailey, Sally Bailey and husband John Cook, and William B. Bailey. The families lived in Ohio until about 1826, when Horatio and William B. moved on to Warren County, Indiana. George died between 1815-1826 in Ohio. I have documentation of Horatio's War of 1812 service, discharge and pension application (all are photocopies of original documents) and land transactions in Pickaway county, Ohio 1818 and 1820 Thanks Eleanor Bailey   Lafayette, In swampangel39@yahoo.com  

Wikipedia has a good article on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family It mentions the "great aunt/uncle as 'casual' usage: "When additional generations intervene (in other words, when one's collateral relatives belong to the same generation as one's grandparents or grandchildren), the prefix "grand" modifies these terms. (Although in casual usage in the USA a "grand aunt" is often referred to as a "great aunt", for instance.) And as with grandparents and grandchildren, as more generations intervene the prefix becomes "great grand", adding an additional "great" for each additional generation." Many dictionaries carry both grand aunt and great aunt as equivalent. My family has always used the "great" aunt/uncle terminology; however, all the genealogical SW I have seen also uses "Grand" aunt/uncle so I think this is the 'proper' usage...of course, we call our relatives many different things based upon culture, dialect and the like - e.g., grandmother may be granny, gramma, nan, nana, mom-mom, and a whole host of others where, nevertheless, the 'proper' version is grandmother. No offense is intended to anyone who may refer to their grandmother's sister as a great aunt (as I myself do), just trying to relay information on what seems to be the proper usage based upon a number of sources. Heck, I even was brought up to call some folks near to my family but not part of them as "aunt" or "uncle". My message was just trying to pint out the difference between the 'proper' form in a purely technical sense to the more casual or colloquial forms of the kinship...no 'over-reaching' intended. Best Regards, Mike Hitch "So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key." -Eagles _____ From: David Kearney [mailto:kearneyd@erols.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:40 PM To: mikehitch@mikehitch.com; lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? Mike Hitch wrote: >>> Yeah - we generally these days refer to our Grandparents' siblings as "Great" uncles and aunts when in reality they are properly just "Grand" uncles and aunts (as it would make sense being they are the siblings of "grand"fathers and "grand"mothers). And so, Great grand uncles and aunts are siblings to great grandfathers and mothers and so on.... <<< ____________ Mike, I think you're over-reaching a little bit in suggesting that "grand uncle/aunt" is the PROPER form over "great uncle/aunt." I might be wrong, but I think either form is perfectly acceptable, either grand uncle/aunt, or great uncle/aunt. Perhaps the form generally used in a particular part of the country is a matter of regional dialect or something. I've come to prefer (for my own use) the form, "great uncle/aunt." Although one always has to "count" the number of greats or grands, it usually doesn't throw me off that a great uncle/aunt is the brother/sister to a grandfather/grandmother (not a greatfather or greatmother), that a great-great uncle/aunt is a brother/sister to a great grandfather/grandmother, etc. Cheers! Dave K

Then, what does that make a "grand duke"--? Just joking.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Kearney" To: mikehitch@mikehitch.com, lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:39:40 -0400 Mike Hitch wrote: >>> Yeah - we generally these days refer to our Grandparents' siblings as "Great" uncles and aunts when in reality they are properly just "Grand" uncles and aunts (as it would make sense being they are the siblings of "grand"fathers and "grand"mothers). And so, Great grand uncles and aunts are siblings to great grandfathers and mothers and so on.... <<< ____________ Mike, I think you're over-reaching a little bit in suggesting that "grand uncle/aunt" is the PROPER form over "great uncle/aunt." I might be wrong, but I think either form is perfectly acceptable, either grand uncle/aunt, or great uncle/aunt. Perhaps the form generally used in a particular part of the country is a matter of regional dialect or something. I've come to prefer (for my own use) the form, "great uncle/aunt." Although one always has to "count" the number of greats or grands, it usually doesn't throw me off that a great uncle/aunt is the brother/sister to a grandfather/grandmother (not a greatfather or greatmother), that a great-great uncle/aunt is a brother/sister to a great grandfather/grandmother, etc. Cheers! Dave K *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com

Mike Hitch wrote: >>> Yeah - we generally these days refer to our Grandparents' siblings as "Great" uncles and aunts when in reality they are properly just "Grand" uncles and aunts (as it would make sense being they are the siblings of "grand"fathers and "grand"mothers). And so, Great grand uncles and aunts are siblings to great grandfathers and mothers and so on.... <<< ____________ Mike, I think you're over-reaching a little bit in suggesting that "grand uncle/aunt" is the PROPER form over "great uncle/aunt." I might be wrong, but I think either form is perfectly acceptable, either grand uncle/aunt, or great uncle/aunt. Perhaps the form generally used in a particular part of the country is a matter of regional dialect or something. I've come to prefer (for my own use) the form, "great uncle/aunt." Although one always has to "count" the number of greats or grands, it usually doesn't throw me off that a great uncle/aunt is the brother/sister to a grandfather/grandmother (not a greatfather or greatmother), that a great-great uncle/aunt is a brother/sister to a great grandfather/grandmother, etc. Cheers! Dave K

Susan, Maybe this term has been around for longer than we thought. I have heard "grand niece" before, but I thought someone was just being overly sophisticated. :) Regards, Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Wheary" <susanwheary@emypeople.net> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? > According to Family Tree Maker, my g-grandmother's brother is shown as > my half-great-granduncle. Not sure where they get the "half" since he's > my g-grandmother's full brother. Checking another relative, my > g-grandfather's sister is shown as my great-grandaunt. > > I would never have thought of "great-grand"; I just stick an extra > "great" in the front. But maybe I'm wrong. The great-grand combination > does have the advantage of the siblings and direct ancestor having > similar titles. > > Susan in Missouri > > -----Original Message----- > From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jack > Fallin > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:46 PM > To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? > > > Dear List, > > Michelle has just provided us with a helpful run through of the > cousins-naming game. I should know it by know, but still have to > consult such keys every once in a while. But, it has promped me to > ask another question. What the heck to we call our GG Grandfather's > brother or sister? The problem is that you usually refer to your > grandfather's siblings as great-uncles and great-aunts, so they start > out with an extra great over their siblings. Does this mean that we > just add another to our ancestor's title to get to his siblings? > That would mean that my great grandfather's brother would be my great- > great-uncle, etc., ad infinitum. It seems a bit whacked, but I'm not > sure there is another logical result. > > Thoughts? > > Jack Fallin > Walnut Creek, CA > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mike, Your reply to "Understand Cousins" was definently "Food for thought", at least as far as I am concerned. I have never heard the term "grand Uncle or Aunt" but makes perfect sence. Thanks for your input. Regards, Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hitch" <mikehitch@mikehitch.com> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? > Yeah - we generally these days refer to our Grandparents' siblings as > "Great" uncles and aunts when in reality they are properly just "Grand" > uncles and aunts (as it would make sense being they are the siblings of > "grand"fathers and "grand"mothers). And so, Great grand uncles and aunts are > siblings to great grandfathers and mothers and so on.... > > > Best Regards, > Mike Hitch > "So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even > know we have the key." -Eagles > > > |-----Original Message----- > |From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > |[mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > |Of Susan Wheary > |Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:55 PM > |To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > |Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts > |and uncles?? > | > |According to Family Tree Maker, my g-grandmother's brother is > |shown as my half-great-granduncle. Not sure where they get the > |"half" since he's my g-grandmother's full brother. Checking > |another relative, my g-grandfather's sister is shown as my > |great-grandaunt. > | > |I would never have thought of "great-grand"; I just stick an > |extra "great" in the front. But maybe I'm wrong. The > |great-grand combination does have the advantage of the > |siblings and direct ancestor having similar titles. > | > |Susan in Missouri > | > |-----Original Message----- > |From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > |[mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf > |Of Jack Fallin > |Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:46 PM > |To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com > |Subject: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? > | > | > |Dear List, > | > |Michelle has just provided us with a helpful run through of > |the cousins-naming game. I should know it by know, but still > |have to consult such keys every once in a while. But, it has > |promped me to ask another question. What the heck to we call > |our GG Grandfather's brother or sister? The problem is that > |you usually refer to your grandfather's siblings as > |great-uncles and great-aunts, so they start out with an extra > |great over their siblings. Does this mean that we > |just add another to our ancestor's title to get to his siblings? > |That would mean that my great grandfather's brother would be > |my great- great-uncle, etc., ad infinitum. It seems a bit > |whacked, but I'm not sure there is another logical result. > | > |Thoughts? > | > |Jack Fallin > |Walnut Creek, CA > |*************************************** > |QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > |Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > |http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > |------------------------------- > |To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > |LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > |without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > | > | > |*************************************** > |QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > |Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > |http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > |------------------------------- > |To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > |LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > |'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > |of the message > | > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yeah - we generally these days refer to our Grandparents' siblings as "Great" uncles and aunts when in reality they are properly just "Grand" uncles and aunts (as it would make sense being they are the siblings of "grand"fathers and "grand"mothers). And so, Great grand uncles and aunts are siblings to great grandfathers and mothers and so on.... Best Regards, Mike Hitch "So oftentimes it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key." -Eagles |-----Original Message----- |From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com |[mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf |Of Susan Wheary |Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 1:55 PM |To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com |Subject: Re: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts |and uncles?? | |According to Family Tree Maker, my g-grandmother's brother is |shown as my half-great-granduncle. Not sure where they get the |"half" since he's my g-grandmother's full brother. Checking |another relative, my g-grandfather's sister is shown as my |great-grandaunt. | |I would never have thought of "great-grand"; I just stick an |extra "great" in the front. But maybe I'm wrong. The |great-grand combination does have the advantage of the |siblings and direct ancestor having similar titles. | |Susan in Missouri | |-----Original Message----- |From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com |[mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf |Of Jack Fallin |Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:46 PM |To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com |Subject: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? | | |Dear List, | |Michelle has just provided us with a helpful run through of |the cousins-naming game. I should know it by know, but still |have to consult such keys every once in a while. But, it has |promped me to ask another question. What the heck to we call |our GG Grandfather's brother or sister? The problem is that |you usually refer to your grandfather's siblings as |great-uncles and great-aunts, so they start out with an extra |great over their siblings. Does this mean that we |just add another to our ancestor's title to get to his siblings? |That would mean that my great grandfather's brother would be |my great- great-uncle, etc., ad infinitum. It seems a bit |whacked, but I'm not sure there is another logical result. | |Thoughts? | |Jack Fallin |Walnut Creek, CA |*************************************** |QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? |Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: |http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm |------------------------------- |To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to |LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' |without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message | | |*************************************** |QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? |Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: |http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm |------------------------------- |To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to |LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word |'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body |of the message |

According to Family Tree Maker, my g-grandmother's brother is shown as my half-great-granduncle. Not sure where they get the "half" since he's my g-grandmother's full brother. Checking another relative, my g-grandfather's sister is shown as my great-grandaunt. I would never have thought of "great-grand"; I just stick an extra "great" in the front. But maybe I'm wrong. The great-grand combination does have the advantage of the siblings and direct ancestor having similar titles. Susan in Missouri -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jack Fallin Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 12:46 PM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [LDR] Understanding Cousins: But what about aunts and uncles?? Dear List, Michelle has just provided us with a helpful run through of the cousins-naming game. I should know it by know, but still have to consult such keys every once in a while. But, it has promped me to ask another question. What the heck to we call our GG Grandfather's brother or sister? The problem is that you usually refer to your grandfather's siblings as great-uncles and great-aunts, so they start out with an extra great over their siblings. Does this mean that we just add another to our ancestor's title to get to his siblings? That would mean that my great grandfather's brother would be my great- great-uncle, etc., ad infinitum. It seems a bit whacked, but I'm not sure there is another logical result. Thoughts? Jack Fallin Walnut Creek, CA *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have recently obtained a cigarette lighter with the following engraving on it William Paul 1952 - 1954 ASMARA - ERITREA on the front is a picture of a globe of the world with what appears to be a radio tower rising out of it. Attached to the back is a coin from East Africa , the lighter was made in the USA. I am researching the PAUL family surname and would like to know who this William PAUL is so if the description of this lighter is familiar to anyone and you have information about William Paul I would appreciate your help. Sylvia

Sylvia -- I can't help you WRT your PAUL surname. However, the lighter is a commemorative from the former US "listening" station at Asmara when it was part of Ethiopia -- hence the picture of a radio tower on the lighter. It is probably commemorating his tour of duty there from 1952-1954. Might be a long shot, but you could try to contact the public relations folks at NSA at Ft. Meade to see if they might be able to tell you anything about this William Paul -- it was long enough ago that his presence there might no longer be a state secret!! :) Good luck. Cree Newbold -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Sylvia Greenhawk Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:55 AM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [LDR] William Paul I have recently obtained a cigarette lighter with the following engraving on it William Paul 1952 - 1954 ASMARA - ERITREA on the front is a picture of a globe of the world with what appears to be a radio tower rising out of it. Attached to the back is a coin from East Africa , the lighter was made in the USA. I am researching the PAUL family surname and would like to know who this William PAUL is so if the description of this lighter is familiar to anyone and you have information about William Paul I would appreciate your help. Sylvia *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear List, Michelle has just provided us with a helpful run through of the cousins-naming game. I should know it by know, but still have to consult such keys every once in a while. But, it has promped me to ask another question. What the heck to we call our GG Grandfather's brother or sister? The problem is that you usually refer to your grandfather's siblings as great-uncles and great-aunts, so they start out with an extra great over their siblings. Does this mean that we just add another to our ancestor's title to get to his siblings? That would mean that my great grandfather's brother would be my great- great-uncle, etc., ad infinitum. It seems a bit whacked, but I'm not sure there is another logical result. Thoughts? Jack Fallin Walnut Creek, CA

Judy, Thank you for your very interesting email concerning "understanding cousin relationships". I know you have had many miles from your family history. Another way to find "relatives" is to win the lottery. Regards, Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: "JM Stell" <stellva@msn.com> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:13 AM Subject: [LDR] Understanding cousin relationships > My roots go deep into the eastern shore and combine with a branch out of early New England and when it's all figured out my dad and I were some kind of cousin in a couple different ways (I won't bore you with the number of ways, generations or 'removes', 'cause there's more than one). Then I marry a nice guy I met in college whose dad's from TX and mom's from IN, but turns out his mom and I are 10th cousins off the Mayflower. By the time our kids headed to middle school, we were armed with excuses if we ever got called in for parent-teacher conferences! And loaded with quips for the ladies at church. Gotta admit, we had a lot of fun > > So my mom felt left out. Until I found a collateral cousin of my dad's family had served on a jury in Jamestown which sentenced one of her ancestors for drunk and disorderly. Seems that ended her quest to connect! > > - ain't genealogy grand > > Judy Stell > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS Digest, Vol 3, Issue 288 > From: "Michelle Burris Kenerly" <bluejeans@ec.rr.com<mailto:bluejeans@ec.rr.com>> > Subject: [LDR] Understanding cousin relationships. > > Hello LDR members, > I just received this explanation from a friend and decided to pass it on to you. I hope it is helpful. Good hunting! > Regards, > Michelle > > Kissin' Cousins - Understanding Cousin Relationships > > Most of us don't think about specific cousin relationships in exact terms - "cousin" seems good enough - so many of us aren't very familiar with what these words mean. When working on your family history, however, it's important to understand the various types of cousin relationships. > > a.. First cousins are the people in your family who have two of the same grandparents as you. > b.. Second cousins have the same great-grandparents as you, but not the same grandparents. > c.. Third cousins have in common two great-great-grandparents and their ancestors. > When cousins descend from common ancestors by a different number of generations they are called "removed." > > a.. Once removed means there is a difference of one generation. Your mother's first cousin would be your first cousin, once removed. She is one generation younger than your grandparents and you are two generations younger than your grandparents. > b.. Twice removed means that there is a two-generation difference. Your grandmother's first cousin would be your first cousin, twice removed because you are separated by two generations. > Just to complicate matters, there are also many cases of double cousins. This situation usually occurs when siblings from one family marry siblings from another family. The resulting children, grandchildren, etc. are double cousins, because they share all four ancestors in common. These types of relationships can be difficult to determine and it is usually easiest to chart them one at a time (through one family line and then through the other line). > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message