Listers~ There is also a great booklet showing the early immigrants of Maryland called "The Ark & The Dove". It shows many names of some of our ancestors. A friend of mine came across this info while going through a library in Georgia several years ago. She copied all of it for me and it was most interesting. I think you can down load it on the internet. Worth checking out. Regards, Michelle ----- Original Message ----- From: <johnlyon0@cs.com> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [LDR] For the period 1675-1725 - Immigration to Sussex Co North ofthe Indian River and the Nanticoke (roughly) > > > > > John Polk writes: > > > Keep in mind that Skordas only covers the period 1634-1681 when the > eadright system was in effect, which doesn't overlap your period of > nterest very much. <snip> > > oe Lake writes: I also pulled down a copy of Gust Skordas' "Early > Settlers of Maryland". In the front intro, he states: "this is > an accurate alphabetical index list of ALL the names of those > who came & demanded land under the conditions of plantation. > > > > > > __________________________ > > Well, I’d simply encourage you to read the introductory material to Carson > Gibb’s "new and improved" Early Settlers, to get in the right frame of > mind. Skordas’ bold claim of accuracy and completeness was a good bit > impetuous. > > I can add that Carson’s good work remains less complete than we’d hope, > and that Carson would be the first to agree, were he still with us. For > several years, as he was plowing through the Patents and Warrants to > upgrade Skordas, I was simultaneously unraveling the warrant claims made > for Somerset patents and (often) trying to connect them with the rights > expressed in the headrights. Carson and I often padded across the MSA > Search Room to seek one another out on interpretations of script and > correlations that might provide evidence supporting improvements to our > respective lists. This was often helpful, but the lesson we both came away > with was that we were looking through glass darkly. As his Early Settler > introduction makes clear, the headright system cam > e to an end, partly because the Lord Baltimore found the documentation of > his clerks incomplete and disorganized. > > Much remains missing (or undiscovered). I find hundreds of people claimed > on Somerset headright grants who are not in Carson’s lists, and (I think, > but this requires analysis that I have no time for) a vast number of > headrights awarded that were never used, or ended up used in counties > other than Somerset (which one would have "expected" to have been used in > Somerset by virtue of the holders of the rights). > > Most of my own ancestors who entered before 1681 are among the missing, > never appearing on either headright lists or warrant claims applied to > patents in Somerset. Their earliest rights to surveys were acquired by > purchase from others, though they themselves would have, by their own > economic and social status, have been normally expected to have paid for > their own passage. I have long since abandoned trying to imagine why, just > admitting that the surviving documentation from 350 years ago is > imperfect. Some answers may have been on moldy loose sheets that turned > long ago into papier mache in a forgotten corner of the Land Office. > > > I find no Archibald Hopkins among applied headrights for any Somerset > survey. > > > The glass is half full. But imagining that Skordas found "everyone", or > that everyone can be found, is unrealistic. Time to diminish your > expectations, being grateful for what still miraculously exists. > > > John > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > _______ > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.234 / Virus Database: 270.10.22/1946 - Release Date: 02/11/09 11:13:00

John Polk writes: Keep in mind that Skordas only covers the period 1634-1681 when the eadright system was in effect, which doesn't overlap your period of nterest very much. <snip> oe Lake writes: I also pulled down a copy of Gust Skordas' "Early Settlers of Maryland". In the front intro, he states: "this is an accurate alphabetical index list of ALL the names of those who came & demanded land under the conditions of plantation. __________________________ Well, I’d simply encourage you to read the introductory material to Carson Gibb’s "new and improved" Early Settlers, to get in the right frame of mind. Skordas’ bold claim of accuracy and completeness was a good bit impetuous. I can add that Carson’s good work remains less complete than we’d hope, and that Carson would be the first to agree, were he still with us. For several years, as he was plowing through the Patents and Warrants to upgrade Skordas, I was simultaneously unraveling the warrant claims made for Somerset patents and (often) trying to connect them with the rights expressed in the headrights. Carson and I often padded across the MSA Search Room to seek one another out on interpretations of script and correlations that might provide evidence supporting improvements to our respective lists. This was often helpful, but the lesson we both came away with was that we were looking through glass darkly. As his Early Settler introduction makes clear, the headright system cam e to an end, partly because the Lord Baltimore found the documentation of his clerks incomplete and disorganized. Much remains missing (or undiscovered). I find hundreds of people claimed on Somerset headright grants who are not in Carson’s lists, and (I think, but this requires analysis that I have no time for) a vast number of headrights awarded that were never used, or ended up used in counties other than Somerset (which one would have "expected" to have been used in Somerset by virtue of the holders of the rights). Most of my own ancestors who entered before 1681 are among the missing, never appearing on either headright lists or warrant claims applied to patents in Somerset. Their earliest rights to surveys were acquired by purchase from others, though they themselves would have, by their own economic and social status, have been normally expected to have paid for their own passage. I have long since abandoned trying to imagine why, just admitting that the surviving documentation from 350 years ago is imperfect. Some answers may have been on moldy loose sheets that turned long ago into papier mache in a forgotten corner of the Land Office. I find no Archibald Hopkins among applied headrights for any Somerset survey. The glass is half full. But imagining that Skordas found "everyone", or that everyone can be found, is unrealistic. Time to diminish your expectations, being grateful for what still miraculously exists. John _________________________________________________________________ _______ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com

Hello Joni & Mary, I don't know the percentage, but most families had a lots of children. Especially in Sussex County where most were farmers. I think Coventon may actually be Covington, there are at least 2 in the Messick line as well as several Burtons and Williams....I have at leaset one of each in my Mother's Messick family, but none fitting this time frame. Both of my Mom's paternal grandparents were Messicks,  born in 1856 and 1857. There are a number of Messick researchers on this mailing lists. If you have a specific question maybe they can help you out. Joni, can you tell me what Messick line you are from? As I said my Mom has two lines in recent generations. I also grew up in Sussex County and have found my Messick family cemetery from my ggg-grandparents who were born 1803/1875 & 1808/1896. Joel/Jewel & Elizabeth Garrison Messick. I hope to hear from you, Gwen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joni Rabena" <joni@mcburney.ca> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:04:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [LDR] William MARVEL with Messicks Hi, I just checked my Messicks but I don't have a Coventon, Samuel or a Burton. They are all related I'm sure, just have to find the connection.  My Nancy E. Smith, daughter of William Smith and Mary Polly Johnson married a William Messick in 1839 in Sussex County.  They had 8 kids so the name spread fairly rapidly! Joni -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mydesire@gulftel.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:44 PM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] William MARVEL with Messicks Hi,     My John Culleney/Colonna  will mentions his daughter who married Burton Messick.  1820 Sussex Co., DE Census has John(shoe maker) in Little Creek Hundred and his son Sothey in Broad Creek Hundred.   The page where Sothey is listed it also has Coventon, Samuel, Burton Messick. Plus another daughter's husband Isaac Dolby.  I'd love to know the route of this census taker!     Smiles from sunny Alabama,     Mary Quoting Joni Rabena <joni@mcburney.ca>: > Well, after searching for some more records I found the will of Robert > Marvel II on-line so that is great.  I'm sure these Marvels were > attached somehow.  I have a Patience Marvel married to a Brown, but > also someone else had her married to a Mr. Knowles.  I also have a > bunch of Messicks in my Tree.  Oh, there are so many! > > My main search, however, is the John Smith and Amelia Trader family.   > They are my 3rd great grandparents. > > Thanks again for the info, Nanette. > > Joni > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Joe - Keep in mind that Skordas only covers the period 1634-1681 when the headright system was in effect, which doesn't overlap your period of interest very much. After 1681, this genealogical bonanza was discontinued so we have to search for our quarries in other sources, primarily the land and court records, which yield much more random results. No guarantees that any specific individual ever ended up in court or acquired land, and if so it could be many years after his/her arrival. For those who may not be aware - "New Early Settlers of Maryland" is available on-line at the MSA website with a search engine. Just go to http://www.msa.md.gov/msa/speccol/sc4300/sc4341/html/search.html This is much more complete than Gust Skordas's original version since it includes all of the additions and corrections made by the late Dr. Carson Gibb who worked on it for many years at MSA. I just checked it for Archibald Hopkins and unfortunately nothing came up. Lots of other Hopkinses. No guaranteed answers in this business. With respect to court records, Somerset's early Judicials, through 1696, are available at the MSA website with a search engine so they are easy to check. Go to http://aomol.net/html/countycourts.html The 1696-1698 volume is also on line but only in the form of scanned images - so search engine doesn't work. The Judicials for 1707-1717 have been transcribed by Frank Walczyk in five published volumes. If you can find these you just need to check the indexes for your Archibald. I know they are available at MSA, but don't know about Nabb Center. For Sussex County, i.e. the part that always belonged to Pennsylvania, the early court records were transcribed by Craig Horle in "Records of the Courts of Sussex County, Delaware, 1677-1710" (2 Volumes). This is available at Delaware Archives, Pennsylvania Historical Society and Library of Congress. Not sure where else. With respect to the Somerset land records, I will defer to our LDR guru John Lyon who will be able to tell you if Archibald Hopkins pops up in his database. Perhaps he already weighed in on this and I didn't make note of it at the time since Hopkins is not one of my lines of interest. Good luck - JP ----- Original Message ----- From: <joslake@sbcglobal.net> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: [LDR] For the period 1675-1725 - Immigration to Sussex Co North ofthe Indian River and the Nanticoke (roughly) > To John Polk, Judy, awilgus and any other interested listers: > > Yesterday I checked every Hopkins listing in the entire set of PILI > (Passenger & > Immigration List Index. 37 volumes from the beginning in 1981 thru 2009; > some years > had 2 supplements issued instead of just one). > > Altho, going in, I thought it would be a cinch because I had a unique > given name > (Archibald) I din't find a single Archibald in PILI, period. Lot's of > Maryland > immigrants (as we know the listings frequnetly repeat because of the > sources used) > but Delaware was mentioned infrequently if at all. > > I'm sure :-) that I now have your sympathy. > > Then I switched to Ancestry and found 600 Archibald Hopkins listings of > various kinds > (again, they repeat *frequently* as you know). > > But here's the reason for this e-mail. I also pulled down a copy of Gust > Skordas' > "Early Settlers of Maryland". In the front intro, he states: "this is an > accurate > alphabetical index list of ALL the names of those who came & demanded land > under the > conditions of plantation. Since land was free on demand, we can assume > that most, if > not all, the immigrants to Maryland for the first 50 years are listed". > > El Posto Scripto: Dind't find Archibald in Skordas either ! > > Joe Lake > > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I heard from 2 sources in Selbyville that it was to be donated to Nabb. I am not sure if this has taken place. Nothing shows up in a Nabb site search except her foklore book. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Jim Moore <moorejl@gmail.com> wrote: > Listers: Belatedly, I've learned about the large library of Delmarva > historical material compiled by Dorothy and Paul Pepper of Selbyville. Does > anyone know what became of their material and whether it is now available > to > the public? (Paul's mother was a Layton.) > Jim Moore > Wilmington DE > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Marjorie "Be glad of life because it gives you the chance to love and to work and to play and to look up at the stars."~ Henry Van Dyke

>>>Keep in mind that "immigrants" from other colonies and the British Isles were already subjects of the Crown and there was no need for them to be naturalized as new citizens.<<< ________________ Neat subject area. Some literature suggests that English "citizenship" during the period generally was reserved to those born in England or the colonies, or provided citizenship by the sovereign or Parliament, but I doubt that the "born in" route applied in anything like full measure to all people born in the colonies ... for instance, enslaved African Americans and native Americans. For a discussion of how English citizenship applied to Jews during the American colonial period, see Search Out the Land: The Jews and the Growth of Equality in British Colonial America, 1740-1867, by Sheldon J. Godfrey & Judith C. Godfrey (1995), preview available on-line at http://books.google.com/books?id=ajizw3pz8IIC. Godfrey describes how even English citizenship ended up being bifurcated into classes. See also The Jew in the American World: A Source Book, by Jacob Rader Marcus (1996), p. 34, et seq. preview available on-line at http://books.google.com/books?id=Q8fq8ct7KmgC. More general discussion can be found at The Unmaking of Americans: How Multiculturalism Has Undermined the Assimilation Ethic, by John J. Miller (1998), p. 34, et seq.; preview available on-line at http://books.google.com/books?id=pvzAZS4sT8sC; & They Became Americans: Finding Naturalization Records and Ethnic Origins, by Loretto Dennis Szucs (1990), p. 19, et seq., preview available on-line at http://books.google.com/books?id=Hl7SBRmA90QC. (One should be able to work through the Google Book previews by selecting and applying pointed search terms.) A Wikipedia entry, Jewish history in Colonial America, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history_in_Colonial_America, provides more discussion concerning how one group of Americans became colonial American citizens. The New York Genealogical and Biographical Society has some holdings addressing naturalization in colonial Pennsylvania and other immigration and naturalization resources, shown in a "Selected Bibliography for Immigration and Naturalization Research," available at http://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/modules.php?name=sections&op=viewarticle&artid=7. Dave K

You can got to Nabb Research Center in Salisbury, they have copies of the original papers of who came and when. My ancestor emigrated to Somerset from Virginia 1671. Name was John Duer/Deuar I believe his real last name was really spelled Dewar. Jean Duer **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62)

It had people that emigrated from Virginia to Maryland too. Jean **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1218550342x1201216770/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=fe bemailfooterNO62)

Hello Listers, I have a question. It may seem absolutely ridiculous to many, but I truly don't know the answer. In "Early Settlers of Maryland" by Gust Skordas.....I know it lists "immigrants to Maryland", but does this mean literally immigrants from the Old Country or just new people coming in from, perhaps, Virginia, as settlers of Maryland?? Or maybe both?? Thank you. Linda Goddard Stout --in Wild Wonderful West Virginia Researching George Goddard 1673 immigrant to Maryland, listed in Gust Skordas' book. (Liber 18, Folio 36). I've always thought that my George Goddard probably came from England to Maryland in 1673.

Dorothy had written a book many years ago.? Folklore of Sussex County or something to that effect.? I believe she may have written others however after my mother passed away I lost touch with Mrs. Pepper.?That book at least should be available.? I would contact the library in Sussex County.? I know she loved to write so I can't imagine she stopped with just one book.? That book would be about 25-30 years old.? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Moore <moorejl@gmail.com> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 4:53 pm Subject: [LDR] Personal archives of Dorothy Pepper Listers: Belatedly, I've learned about the large library of Delmarva historical material compiled by Dorothy and Paul Pepper of Selbyville. Does anyone know what became of their material and whether it is now available to the public? (Paul's mother was a Layton.) Jim Moore Wilmington DE *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I just checked my Messicks but I don't have a Coventon, Samuel or a Burton. They are all related I'm sure, just have to find the connection. My Nancy E. Smith, daughter of William Smith and Mary Polly Johnson married a William Messick in 1839 in Sussex County. They had 8 kids so the name spread fairly rapidly! Joni -----Original Message----- From: lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lower-delmarva-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mydesire@gulftel.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:44 PM To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LDR] William MARVEL with Messicks Hi, My John Culleney/Colonna will mentions his daughter who married Burton Messick. 1820 Sussex Co., DE Census has John(shoe maker) in Little Creek Hundred and his son Sothey in Broad Creek Hundred. The page where Sothey is listed it also has Coventon, Samuel, Burton Messick. Plus another daughter's husband Isaac Dolby. I'd love to know the route of this census taker! Smiles from sunny Alabama, Mary Quoting Joni Rabena <joni@mcburney.ca>: > Well, after searching for some more records I found the will of Robert > Marvel II on-line so that is great. I'm sure these Marvels were > attached somehow. I have a Patience Marvel married to a Brown, but > also someone else had her married to a Mr. Knowles. I also have a > bunch of Messicks in my Tree. Oh, there are so many! > > My main search, however, is the John Smith and Amelia Trader family. > They are my 3rd great grandparents. > > Thanks again for the info, Nanette. > > Joni > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Listers: Belatedly, I've learned about the large library of Delmarva historical material compiled by Dorothy and Paul Pepper of Selbyville. Does anyone know what became of their material and whether it is now available to the public? (Paul's mother was a Layton.) Jim Moore Wilmington DE

I have Patience Marvel, daughter of David & Comfort, married to James Knowles I son of Richard Knowles in 1778. Source of the data comes from James O. Adams, Genealogy of Some Descendents of Richard Knowles (d-1791) of Cod Creek, Little Creek Hundred, Sussex County, Delaware and William Knowles (d-1825) of Concord, Broad Creek Hundred, Sussex County, Delaware, dated 1956, p.5. ----- Original Message ---- From: "mydesire@gulftel.com" <mydesire@gulftel.com> To: lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:43:59 PM Subject: Re: [LDR] William MARVEL with Messicks Hi,     My John Culleney/Colonna  will mentions his daughter who married  Burton Messick.  1820 Sussex Co., DE Census has John(shoe maker) in Little Creek Hundred and his son Sothey in Broad Creek Hundred.  The page where Sothey is listed it also has Coventon, Samuel, Burton Messick.  Plus another daughter's husband Isaac Dolby.  I'd love to know the route of this census taker!     Smiles from sunny Alabama,     Mary Quoting Joni Rabena <joni@mcburney.ca>: > Well, after searching for some more records I found the will of Robert > Marvel II on-line so that is great.  I'm sure these Marvels were attached > somehow.  I have a Patience Marvel married to a Brown, but also someone else > had her married to a Mr. Knowles.  I also have a bunch of Messicks in my > Tree.  Oh, there are so many! > > My main search, however, is the John Smith and Amelia Trader family.  They > are my 3rd great grandparents. > > Thanks again for the info, Nanette. > > Joni > *************************************** QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To John Polk, Judy, awilgus and any other interested listers: Yesterday I checked every Hopkins listing in the entire set of PILI (Passenger & Immigration List Index. 37 volumes from the beginning in 1981 thru 2009; some years had 2 supplements issued instead of just one). Altho, going in, I thought it would be a cinch because I had a unique given name (Archibald) I din't find a single Archibald in PILI, period. Lot's of Maryland immigrants (as we know the listings frequnetly repeat because of the sources used) but Delaware was mentioned infrequently if at all. I'm sure :-) that I now have your sympathy. Then I switched to Ancestry and found 600 Archibald Hopkins listings of various kinds (again, they repeat *frequently* as you know). But here's the reason for this e-mail. I also pulled down a copy of Gust Skordas' "Early Settlers of Maryland". In the front intro, he states: "this is an accurate alphabetical index list of ALL the names of those who came & demanded land under the conditions of plantation. Since land was free on demand, we can assume that most, if not all, the immigrants to Maryland for the first 50 years are listed". El Posto Scripto: Dind't find Archibald in Skordas either ! Joe Lake

Hi, My John Culleney/Colonna will mentions his daughter who married Burton Messick. 1820 Sussex Co., DE Census has John(shoe maker) in Little Creek Hundred and his son Sothey in Broad Creek Hundred. The page where Sothey is listed it also has Coventon, Samuel, Burton Messick. Plus another daughter's husband Isaac Dolby. I'd love to know the route of this census taker! Smiles from sunny Alabama, Mary Quoting Joni Rabena <joni@mcburney.ca>: > Well, after searching for some more records I found the will of Robert > Marvel II on-line so that is great. I'm sure these Marvels were attached > somehow. I have a Patience Marvel married to a Brown, but also someone else > had her married to a Mr. Knowles. I also have a bunch of Messicks in my > Tree. Oh, there are so many! > > My main search, however, is the John Smith and Amelia Trader family. They > are my 3rd great grandparents. > > Thanks again for the info, Nanette. > > Joni >

Thanks to John Polk, Judy and awilgus for their immigration insights and comments. Like John I haven't used PILI for a long time, but searching a hard copy has some advantages over searching a database, so that's a good option to revisit (& catch up with the newer yearly issues). And I had forgotten that immigrants from the British Isles did not need naturalization papers. Before sending the e-mail to the list last nite, I briefly checked out Philadelphia (& port) in the catalog at Family Search.org and they have quite a long list, but at that first check, many of the starting dates seemed to fall shortly after 1725. So that "easy way" that I always look for first probably isn't here either, but thanks again Folks. If I do find some exciting "method", I'll post it. :-). Joe Lake > Joe - > > Keep in mind that "immigrants" from other colonies and the British Isles > were already subjects of the Crown and there was no need for them to be > naturalized as new citizens. Passenger lists for that period were not > maintained by the government and are very rare. The usual way you might > locate such people is by finding indenture agreements cited in the court > records, but these only appear on a case by case basis. > > There is a huge index of all immigrants to America called PILI (Passenger > and Immigrantion Lists Index), taken from every possible source, which used > to be published in paper form with updates published yearly. Each volume is > like a city phone directory and the whole collection takes up a shelf in a > reference library. I haven't tried to use this in a long time, but believe > it is now published electronically online in searchable format, accessible > via Ancestry.com and other places. > > Baltimore didn't really exist as a port back then. The county seat for > Baltimore County was located at "Old Baltimore" on land now part of Aberdeen > Proving Ground, then moved to Bush River and to Joppa in present day Harford > County, in 1724. Baltimore City did not become the seat of Baltimore County > until 1768. > > Good luck - > > John Polk > Havre de Grace > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <joslake@sbcglobal.net> > To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:12 AM > Subject: [LDR] For the period 1675-1725 - Immigration to Sussex Co North > ofthe Indian River and the Nanticoke (roughly)loew > > >> List: These questions (or similar) are probably responsible for the old >> saw about >> getting a camel thru the eye of a needle. Keeping in mind that >> authorities agree >> there was considerable immigration to at least parts of Sussex from the >> south >> (Accomack, VA; Somerset, MD) and from the MD counties to the west. >> >> 1. Was Lewes ever a port used for other than very limited immigration ? >> (I recently >> saw an offhand comment in a book that it was ??). >> >> 2. Would Baltimore have been an immigration port during the period >> 1675-1725? >> >> 3. I will check on the location & availability of Philadelphia >> immigration records & >> passenger lists, but is there any list member who has already investigated >> these >> records who would put a "brief overview" on line (probably it's my >> inexperience >> there, but so far I've found Philadelphia info a bit more difficult to >> locate). >> >> Thank you. >> >> Joe Lake >> >> *************************************** >> QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? >> Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: >> http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Joe, Very good questions. I'll just supplement John Polk's reply a teeny bit. In general, for there to be records to be found, someone has to be keeping them for some reason. John's point about non-immigrant status of persons from British territories is quite valid, and DE did not have a 'headright' system for allocating land under the Penn Proprietary, as MD and VA did. However, the ancient Horrekill/Deal Court records might occasionally note some immigrants, and that could be an 'issue' for holdovers from the original settlements. Lewes: if you look at Sussex Co. Deeds Vol. A you will see allocations of lots in the 1690s+ and halting attempts to develop infrastructure (docks, streets, roads) and services (weaving, milling) and road-communications thereto. I doubt you will find a "port" apparatus in the 1675-1725 period, in the sense of some registration of cargoes accompanied by tariffs or other regulation, inspection of warehouses, etc. DE, especially Sussex Co., with its mix of thin sandy soil and bogs was not a major cash-crop producer/exporter. Fairly good for retting flax, and the 'water meadows' had their advantages. Baltimore was founded in 1729. Interesting question about Philadelphia; I have wondered when the Penn Proprietary began taking Oaths of Allegiance from all the non-British immigrants and under what decree/legislation - but never tried to research the question. The existing ships' records are clearly not the whole of what once existed. Good hunting, Judy .</HTML>

Joe - Keep in mind that "immigrants" from other colonies and the British Isles were already subjects of the Crown and there was no need for them to be naturalized as new citizens. Passenger lists for that period were not maintained by the government and are very rare. The usual way you might locate such people is by finding indenture agreements cited in the court records, but these only appear on a case by case basis. There is a huge index of all immigrants to America called PILI (Passenger and Immigrantion Lists Index), taken from every possible source, which used to be published in paper form with updates published yearly. Each volume is like a city phone directory and the whole collection takes up a shelf in a reference library. I haven't tried to use this in a long time, but believe it is now published electronically online in searchable format, accessible via Ancestry.com and other places. Baltimore didn't really exist as a port back then. The county seat for Baltimore County was located at "Old Baltimore" on land now part of Aberdeen Proving Ground, then moved to Bush River and to Joppa in present day Harford County, in 1724. Baltimore City did not become the seat of Baltimore County until 1768. Good luck - John Polk Havre de Grace ----- Original Message ----- From: <joslake@sbcglobal.net> To: <lower-delmarva-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 3:12 AM Subject: [LDR] For the period 1675-1725 - Immigration to Sussex Co North ofthe Indian River and the Nanticoke (roughly)loew > List: These questions (or similar) are probably responsible for the old > saw about > getting a camel thru the eye of a needle. Keeping in mind that > authorities agree > there was considerable immigration to at least parts of Sussex from the > south > (Accomack, VA; Somerset, MD) and from the MD counties to the west. > > 1. Was Lewes ever a port used for other than very limited immigration ? > (I recently > saw an offhand comment in a book that it was ??). > > 2. Would Baltimore have been an immigration port during the period > 1675-1725? > > 3. I will check on the location & availability of Philadelphia > immigration records & > passenger lists, but is there any list member who has already investigated > these > records who would put a "brief overview" on line (probably it's my > inexperience > there, but so far I've found Philadelphia info a bit more difficult to > locate). > > Thank you. > > Joe Lake > > *************************************** > QUESTIONS about POSTING GUIDELINES, SUBSCRIBING or UNSUBSCRIBING? > Visit The Lower DelMarVa Roots Mailing List FAQ: > http://www.tyaskin.com/handley/ldrfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Since I have other lines coming from this area to Pasquotank/Camden Counties in NC, I wonder if my James Smith might have also come from this area? James had a daughter Jane born about 1768 who married Newton Rencher Edney, Jr. in Pasquotank/Camden Co. NC, Newton Jr's grandfather Robert Edney m. Anna A Wrencher Anna was the daughter of Samuel Rencher. Martha Knott Fowlkes

List: These questions (or similar) are probably responsible for the old saw about getting a camel thru the eye of a needle. Keeping in mind that authorities agree there was considerable immigration to at least parts of Sussex from the south (Accomack, VA; Somerset, MD) and from the MD counties to the west. 1. Was Lewes ever a port used for other than very limited immigration ? (I recently saw an offhand comment in a book that it was ??). 2. Would Baltimore have been an immigration port during the period 1675-1725? 3. I will check on the location & availability of Philadelphia immigration records & passenger lists, but is there any list member who has already investigated these records who would put a "brief overview" on line (probably it's my inexperience there, but so far I've found Philadelphia info a bit more difficult to locate). Thank you. Joe Lake