Just passing this on from one of our Welsh sites, I suppose we shall just have to wait and see. Allen in Aberavon X-Message: #5 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 15:53:46 -0000 From: "Gareth" <W/gen@johngareth.freeserve.co.uk> To: DYFED-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <00a801c29710$a94d6dd0$013d1dac@tirbach> Subject: [Dyfed] New site for BMD online - cross posting Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lists2.rootsweb.com id gAT90ds4001498 You may be interested to know that the BMD indexes are going to be availa= ble from 8 December on: www.1837online.com There is a minimum charge of =A35 allowing you to look at, print, or down= load up to 50 pages. Though not operational yet, the site is open as regards explaining what it intends to offer. There has been considerable discussion on this very interesting developme= nt on the E & W Listowner's list, here is a synopsis of the discussion by on= e of its listers ( Peter Wyant/SUFFOLK List Admin) which may, or may not, clarify any queries you may have. Please don't ask me any questions about it, I know no more :-) ################# First, Geoff Stone, the SoG (i.e., Society of Genealogists) List Admin., has provided the following information: - --------------------------------------------------------- "Title Research [the owner of the site] is a fairly long established firm of repute, this is not a scam but a genuine project. The particular company has been using the digitised images of BMD index data for several years which it converted at its own expense. They have now realised that the data in this form (after some convincing from others) is potentially of commercial interest. Of course we all realise that as the Free-BMD grows in size then that site will probably win out, but in the short term who can blame Title Research for taking the opportunity of sharing a valuable asset in the mean time. "The Family Record Centre ['FRC'] Consultative Group has a dozen or so members who represent users of the FRC, plus of course FRC, GRO ['General Register Office'] and PRO ['Public Record Office'] representatives. The group discusses operational issues from a user point of view. There are representatives from three commercial companies, the SoG, GOONS ['Guild of One-Name Studies'], FFHS ['Federation of Family History Societies'], IHGS ['Institute of Heraldic and Genealogical Studies'], AGRA ['Association of Genealogists and Record Agents'] and independent researchers forming the user group. Of course in fact the commercial companies are the largest single users of the centre and facilities, hence the fact that it was worth while one of them digitising the indexes. "I expect that the counter or phone staff at Stockport [i.e., at the GRO] do not know about the new site since it has not yet been launched. However, the PRO management are well aware of the site. I can't comment at the moment regarding records less than 100 years old, but I will update this list when I am in a position to do so. "Somebody else has pointed out that you are not obliged to use the site, but there will be many who are not able to go to the FRC and don't have easy access to the microfilm and will welcome the facilities offered. This rather depends on the options offered by the system which we will not know for another few weeks. "I should also add - for the avoidance of doubt <grin> - that the SoG have [sic] no direct connection with the site, though we are supportive in principle of anybody who makes genealogical data available over the Internet." - ---------------------------------------------------------- Second, one of our list members, Keith Flinders, has kindly provided the following information ferreted out by Roy Stockdill: - ----------------------------------------------------------- "Having made certain enquiries within the genealogical world, I now understand that the company behind this project is called TITLE SEARCH and, as I suspected, they are professional researchers at the Family Records Centre in Islington. To be precise, they are specialists in probate research, i.e., tracing beneficiaries of wills. "They have all the microfiche of the GRO Indexes from 1837 to the present day and are scanning the images which they propose to place online from those, rather than from the large book volumes at the FRC. They apparently have the blessing of the General Register Office to do this. The head of the company is Colin Miller, who is on the FRC advisory committee. "It would appear to be a genuine project - though why they have chosen to be so secretive about it and launch it in such a low-key fashion is still a bit of a mystery to me. However, I am told the site will shortly be in beta-test mode." - ------------------------------------------------------------ Third, Keith has also kindly provided the following information from John Wynn: - ------------------------------------------------------------ "What has already changed, effective from 13 May 2002, is a general relaxation of the rules applicable to GRO Index holders (of which I am one). These new rules were contained in a letter sent to all Index holders on 8 Apr 2002. "To help clarify the new responsibilities of Index holders the GRO produced a few Questions & Answers in the Annex to the letter - the two most relevant to this discussion being: 'Q. May a charge be made for providing access to, or making index information available? 'A. The revised conditions of sale remove the prohibition in respect to index information of over 100 years old. In future, therefore, should a fiche holder wish to set a charge, for example for accessing an internet site, this would be permissible. 'Q. May a fiche holder charge for information from the recent indexes? 'A. The conditions of sale have not changed in respect to index information of less than 100 years old. Strictly speaking, no charges can be levied. However, ONS ['Office of National Statistics'] has no objection to a nominal fee being collected to cover the cost of a locally provided service such as photocopying etc.' "Obviously this allows any Index holder to publish 1901 or earlier index information or images and to charge a fee. For the later indexes the company appear [sic] to take the view that they [sic] are collecting a nominal fee (10p) to cover the cost of making an image and print available for each page in the indexes. Whether ONS agree with this view remains to be seen I guess." - ---------------------------------------------------------- In summary then, the site appears to be legitimate and to provide information in accordance with GRO and (generally) ONS regs, but is likely still in beta mode, and for the nonce (when launched in Dec) will provide a more complete database than that available on the FreeBMD site, but at a price. ############ Gareth Genuki maintainer for CGN,CMN,GLA & WALES List administrator for DYFED,CGN & PEM Lookup Exchange http://home.clara.net/tirbach/lookup.html Help Page http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html .