Greetings Graham and All Thanks very much for the additional info. Graham. I decided to also check FreeBMD for that Lovelock-Winder marriage and came across this unexpected find: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Jun 1896 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Curtis Alfred Kensington 1a 210 Lovelock Charlotte Kensington 1a 210 Treble Kate Kensington 1a 210 Winder Philip Kensington 1a 210 What do you make of that? I wondered if in fact they had married previously in perhaps some non-conformist church and then later married in the C of E for some reason. I checked Ancestral Trails for any such precedents at this time. But the requirement for Catholics and Protestant dissenters to be married in the Anglican church (as well as their own if they wished to be legal) ended in 1837. If they weren't legally married, this might of course effect inheritance rights. Perhaps they really didn't marry until 1896??? However, regarding the visitor Ann Brewer, I checked FreeBMD to see if an Ann Lovelock had in fact ever married a BREWER and found one match: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Dec 1871 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Brewer Henry Reading 2c 814 Gould George Reading 2c 814 Lovelock Ann Reading 2c 814 Wright Martha Reading 2c 814 What do you think? Ann's age and place of birth is right in the 1881 census extract and the date is spot on for a 'shotgun' marriage as Ann has her illegitimate son William abt June of the same year! And Reading's far enough away from home to save any family embarrassment. I also checked for any likely marriages for their sister Elizabeth. The most likley was: Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2004 10:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sarah Ann bn abt 1865 West Grafton, or rather > her sister Charlotte > > > > Robert, and all > > The 1881 family below is the correct one. I suspect that the > visitor Ann > Brewer is Elizabeth's sister. > > Some of the information I have is based on correspondence > from over 2 years > ago, and is not accessible from this machine. Remind me to > check whether it > is still on my other piano. > > I suspect that Charlotte and Philip married in the Lambeth RD > in the March > quarter of 1874. Certainly a Charlotte did, as you will find > on FreeBMD, but > for once there are only three names recorded for the Register > page. The 1874 > images are not available yet, so can't get any further with that. > > The first of the other two children of the couple that I know > of is a Henry > George, born in the June quarter of 1884 in the Wandsworth > RD, who married > at in the Holywell, Flintshire RD (Malcolm's neck of the > woods) a Rosa Maud > Mary Jessett on 21 Aug 1909. Curiously Rosa was born in > Wandsworth as well, > so I wonder what took them to Flintshire? Charlotte died in > the Holywell RD > in the June quarter of 1920, so had presumably gone to live > with George and > Rosa. > > The fifth child of Charlotte and Philip was Francis, aged 14 > in 1901 and > born in Battersea (but not in FreeBMD). > > With respect to Sarah Ann, Free BMD has no death of a Sarah > Ann Peck that > would explain her absence from the 1901, nor of a Sarah Ann > Powell in the > Hungerford RD. However (RED HERRING WARNING !!!) by > coincidence I did note > the death of a Sarah Ann Pwell in the Holywell RD in June > quarter of 1886 > aged 21.......... > > Your move ......... > > Regards > > Graham > > > > From: "Robert Sterry" <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:03:46 +1100 > > Greetings all > > I found the recent exchange on this illegitimate daughter of > George Lovelock and Eliza Fisher most interesting. > > I had also wondered which of George's daughter's she belonged to? > > I was interested in Graham's comment that George's daughter > Elizabeth married Philip Winder and finished up in London. I > did not have this detail > - just the name of her husband. I checked the 1881. I assume > this is Elizabeth and Philip Winder: > > Dwelling: 1 Milson Place > Census Place: Lambeth, Surrey, England > Source: FHL Film 1341139 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0606 > Folio 141 > Page 47 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Philip WINDER M 42 M Sussex, England > Rel: Head > Occ: Labourer > Charlotte WINDER M 35 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, > England > Rel: Wife > Alice WINDER 7 F St Georges In The East > Rel: Dau > Mark WINDER 4 M Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Son > Annie WINDER 2 m F Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Dau > Ann BREWER 30 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, England > Rel: Visitor > > However, Graham says they had 5 children and that only > accounts for three of them. Graham, could I possibly have the > marriage detail of Elizabeth Lovelock and Philip Winder and > the details on their other two children please? Many thanks. > > I also checked the 1881 for Sarah Ann Lovelock. But had no > more success than Graham. Perhaps she gave a false place of > birth? I found the marriage of Sarah Ann at Hungerford RD in > 1886 that Graham refers to in the FreeBMD. This gave two > possible husbands: James Peck or Joseph Powell. But a search > of the 1901 census for either a Sarah Peck or Powell produced > no result. > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > Robert Sterry > 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills > NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA > Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 > Email: [email protected] > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your > ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. 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