I've done a bit more digging, Vicki, and he appears in Captain Hart's 'New Army List' as late as 1845. His entry reads 'Lieut. John B. Lovelock served with the 29th in the Peninsula, from 1809, and was present at the battle of Busaco, first siege of Badajoz, and battle of Albuhera, at which latter engagement he was severely wounded through both thighs and in the head. Served also in America in 1814, and was present at the capture in the Penobscot, Castine, and Macheas.' Another find is what would seem to be very possibly the gravestone of his mother: http://historicgraves.com/st-mary-s-dominican-graveyard/ga-smdo-0015/grave This provides a plausible suggestion for his middle name - it was his mother's maiden name. Coincidentally, our Ireland records include another Lovelock/Bermingham marriage - Sarah Lovelock and William Henry Bermingham in 1858 in Dublin - and in 1868 George and Fanny Lovelock were witnesses to the marriage of a Mary Ann Bermingham, also in Dublin. And another little gem - a connection between the Lovelocks and Lord Lucan. Not, however, the Lord Lucan who has apparently vanished off the face of the earth, but a predecessor. John B Lovelock was a Castlebar resident in 1839 when he and other tenants of Lord Lucan penned an Address to his Lordship: http://lucanmodelfarm.weebly.com/history.html I think there's sufficient evidence to tie him to the 1849 burial at Castlebar, which otherwise with that initial B would be a bit of a coincidence. Regards Graham Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:35:34 +1200 Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] John Birmingham Lovelock From: vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com Hi Graham A Google search reveals:- Saint Luran's Parish Church, Derryloran, County Tyrone Birth, Baptized, Marriage, Death Records in the Years 1810-1829 Marriages 1820 Jan 15 John Birmingham Lovelock Sr (Birmingham is underlined) Leut 29th foot reg. & Anabella Sophia Hamilton, widow of the late Wm Hamilton of Cookstown Licence No other Lovelock entries. Findmypast has:- Ireland Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds indexes 1623-1866 Transcription First name(s) John B Last name Lovelock Year 1819 Diocese Armagh Spouse's first name(s) Arabella S Spouse's last name Hamilton Same marriage - different years?! Findmypast also has a burial in Ireland:- Tipperary Clans Archive Transcription First name(s) John B Last name Lovelock Year 1849 Place Castlebar Graveyard 0 County Mayo But nothing to confirm him as the man you're looking for though. Hope this helps Vicki Houlbrooke On 16 April 2016 at 04:30, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello all, An entry concerning John Birmingham Lovelock has been added to the 'Strays' page: http://lovelock.free.fr/wip/Strays.html If you can add to the information in any way whatever please let us know. Regards Graham ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks very much, Vicki. You always seem to be able to turn up information that my searches miss. I think there can be no doubt that the marriage on 15 Jan 1820 was the man of the moment. The mention of the 29th Regiment rather seals it, and according to the National Army Museum website the Regiment did serve in Ireland at some time between 1815 and 1842. I do wonder what the underlining of Birmingham could signify - it's as if there was another John Lovelock around that the groom should not have been confused with. And the 'Sr' is a mystery as well, in that it usually implies 'Senior' and if that is the case here then John Birmingham Lovelock Junior seems to have escaped being recorded anywhere. I notice that for some reason when I included the Armagh Diocese entry in our Ireland data collection I entered it as 1829 instead of 1819. The images at Findmypast are exceedingly clear so it must just have been a typo - now corrected. We'll never know I guess why the marriage is entered in one record as 1819 and in the other as 1820. I'm inclined to believe the latter as it includes a day and month as well, whereas the former entries actually appear in what is a transcription document where brides and grooms are listed alphabetically rather than chronologically. I do not have the World Subscription which means I can not see the Castlebar burial entry, but it seems likely to be the same man. If he was appointed Lieutenant in 1811 he was probably born around 1790, so a death at the age of 59 would not be unusual in any way. I will make appropriate amendments forthwith. Regards Graham Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 20:35:34 +1200 Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] John Birmingham Lovelock From: vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com Hi Graham A Google search reveals:- Saint Luran's Parish Church, Derryloran, County Tyrone Birth, Baptized, Marriage, Death Records in the Years 1810-1829 Marriages 1820 Jan 15 John Birmingham Lovelock Sr (Birmingham is underlined) Leut 29th foot reg. & Anabella Sophia Hamilton, widow of the late Wm Hamilton of Cookstown Licence No other Lovelock entries. Findmypast has:- Ireland Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds indexes 1623-1866 Transcription First name(s) John B Last name Lovelock Year 1819 Diocese Armagh Spouse's first name(s) Arabella S Spouse's last name Hamilton Same marriage - different years?! Findmypast also has a burial in Ireland:- Tipperary Clans Archive Transcription First name(s) John B Last name Lovelock Year 1849 Place Castlebar Graveyard 0 County Mayo But nothing to confirm him as the man you're looking for though. Hope this helps Vicki Houlbrooke On 16 April 2016 at 04:30, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello all, An entry concerning John Birmingham Lovelock has been added to the 'Strays' page: http://lovelock.free.fr/wip/Strays.html If you can add to the information in any way whatever please let us know. Regards Graham ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all, An entry concerning John Birmingham Lovelock has been added to the 'Strays' page: http://lovelock.free.fr/wip/Strays.html If you can add to the information in any way whatever please let us know. Regards Graham

Hello all, Following the move to Webtrees, please make sure you have updated your bookmarks to point to: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ If you do use the link: http://http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV you will be redirected to Webtrees (if the redirection doesn’t work, just click on the link on the page displayed). All the data which was available at PhpGedView has been moved to Webtrees. However, I have archived the files and database just in case something escaped my attention. I have also completed the job of generating descendant trees for all the gedcom files, to make sure they correspond to what is actually contained in the Webtrees database. This was quite a lengthy process, because I compared each new tree with the previous version, to determine whether all the data had been recovered from backup files. I’m pleased to report that, as far as I can ascertain, we did not actually lose any data as a result of the SQL database corruption. Regards, James

Dear all, I have been contacted by a granddaughter of Henry and Minnie (nee Lovelock) Geary from the Wroughton-Tidcombe tree. Henry and Minnie's son Walter went to Canada in 1922. My contact would very much like to know if there are any cousins who would like to be in touch. We have only birth information for Henry and Minnnie's five children so I am unable to help at the moment. If there are any descendants of Henry and Minnie on the Mailing List and you would like to hear how things developed in Canada please let me know. Regards Graham

Thanks, Vicki - you've set a hare running now! The William Lovelock/Flora Stagg marriage is another bit of the Lieflock Line, but of course Flora could not be the mother of Bertram born in 1920. I had not thought to look for a Bristow/Stagg marriage, but now that you have drawn our attention to it another oddity - the hare - arises. Go to the 1901 Census at: RG13 1947 F120 P16 I think the address is meant to be 'Milk House Water' which seems to have been in Milton (Lilbourne). The family in residence is: Charles B Stagg;Head;30;Cattleman on farm;Easton, Wilts Jane Stagg;Wife;29;;Pewsey, Wilts Bertrand Stagg;Son;6;;Pewsey, Wilts Elizabeth Stagg;Daur;2;;Baydon, Wilts Then go to the 1911 Census at: RG14 PN12046 RG78 PN672 RD251 SD1 ED12 SN49 The address as written by the signatory (Charles) is illegible, but it is actually meant to be Wilcot I think. The family recorded is: Charles Bristow Stagg;Head;40;Farm labourer;Easton Royal Jane Bristow Stagg;Wife, married 16 years;40;;Pewsey Bertram Stagg;Son;16;Milker;Pewsey Elizabeth Rose B Stagg;Daur;12;Baydon R S O Gertrude B Stagg;Daur;9;;Milk House Water Stanley B Stagg;Son;5;;Southcott, Pewsey William B Stagg;Son;4;;Southcott, Pewsey Hilda B Stagg;Daur;2;;Easton Royal Charles also included and then crossed out Beatrice Alice B Stagg, which is explained by him also recording that they had had 7 children of whom 1 had died. Free BMD seems to record the births of the 7 as: Bertrand Stagg Jan-Mar 1895 Elizabeth Rose Bristow Apr-Jun 1899 Gertrude Bristow Apr-Jun 1902 Beatrice Alice Stagg Jul-Sep 1903 (recorded at death as Beatrice Alfred (sic) Bristow Jan-Mar 1904 aged 0) Stanley George Stagg Jul-Sep 1905 William Bristow Jul-Sep 1906 Hilda Bristow Jan-Mar 1909 Elizabeth Rose's birth was registered in the Hungerford RD, the rest in Pewsey RD. So the family were pretty free with using the two surnames, but now go to the 1881 Census at: RG11 2060 F89 P10 Living in Pewsey were: Thomas B Stagg;Head;48;Bricklayer; Pewsey, Wilts Jane Stagg;Wife;47;;Milton, Wilts H Elijah B Stagg;Son;12;;Easton Royal, Wilts Charles B Stagg;Son;11;;Easton Royal, Wilts Harriet B Stagg;Daur;10;;Easton Royal, Wilts John B Stagg;Son;9;;Easton Royal, Wilts William B Stagg;Son;8;;Easton Royal, Wilts But despite the 'B' Charles was registered at birth (Jan-Mar 1871) as just Charles Stagg. The 'B' was not included in the birth registration of any of his siblings either. This is all getting a bit convoluted, but the 1871 Census reveals another anomaly: RG10 1941 F25 P6 Living in Easton Royal were: Thomas B Stagg;Head;36;Labourer;Pewsey, Wilts Jane B Stagg;Wife;36;;Milton, Wilts Esther B Stagg;Daur;3;;Easton, Wilts Elijah B Stagg;Son;1;Easton, Wilts Charles B Stagg;Son;1month;Easton, Wilts Alas there doesn't seem to be a marrage of Thomas and Jane. A Thomas did marry in the Pewsey RD in Oct-Dec 1867, which looks likely, but Free BMD does not have the wife's entry. Fortunately FamilySearch records her as Ann Stevens, and the Free BMD reference image for her is only partially readable. The daughter of Thomas and Jane was registered in Jan-Mar 1868 as Hester Bristow, and the conclusion therefore is that they never in fact married. And there the trail seems to go cold. Regards Graham Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 11:10:43 +1300 From: vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com HI Graham Findmypast has:- Bertran C, b. 1920 Pewsey, Wiltshire, mother STAGG - same one as on Free bmd Bertrand C, m. 1941 Devizes, Wiltshire, to Anna E McGIVERN Bertram C, 1944 British Armed Forces Deaths, Private Bertram C, 1944 Army Roll of Honour, Private, Italy There is a LOVELOCK - STAGG marriage between William & Flora in 1877 - that would be William John LOVELOCK b.1855 of the Lieflock Tree. There is also a marriage between Charles BRISTOW and Jane STAGG in 1895 Pewsey. I see that Elizabeth Rose BRISTOW's father was Charles ... information from her marriage certificate [see archived discussion 2011], so perhaps the mother's mother's maiden name was accidentally entered. Couldn't find Elizabeth Rose Bristow in 1901 or 1911 Census Vicki Houlbrooke On 19 February 2016 at 07:49, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hello all, Not sure if there's a mystery here, but it's certainly an odd discovery. Bertrand Charles Lovelock from the Lieflock Line was killed in Italy on 28 July 1944 at the age of 24, and his entry on the CWGC website records him as the son of Charles and Rose - Frederick Charles Lovelock and Elizabeth Rose Bristow, who married in 1917. Free BMD has no record of the birth of a Bertrand Charles. What is included in Free BMD is the birth in Jan-Mar 1920 of Bertram C Lovelock, mother Stagg. However, Free BMD has no record of the marriage of a Lovelock to a Stagg in the preceding 40 years. So was Bertrand mistakenly recorded as Bertram - perhaps an easy to understand error - but how then to explain why his mother's maiden name was recorded as Stagg instead of Bristow. Elizabeth Rose had not been married before her marriage to Frederick Charles. Any ideas anyone? Regards Graham ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HI Graham Findmypast has:- Bertran C, b. 1920 Pewsey, Wiltshire, mother STAGG - same one as on Free bmd Bertrand C, m. 1941 Devizes, Wiltshire, to Anna E McGIVERN Bertram C, 1944 British Armed Forces Deaths, Private Bertram C, 1944 Army Roll of Honour, Private, Italy There is a LOVELOCK - STAGG marriage between William & Flora in 1877 - that would be William John LOVELOCK b.1855 of the Lieflock Tree. There is also a marriage between Charles BRISTOW and Jane STAGG in 1895 Pewsey. I see that Elizabeth Rose BRISTOW's father was Charles ... information from her marriage certificate [see archived discussion 2011], so perhaps the mother's mother's maiden name was accidentally entered. Couldn't find Elizabeth Rose Bristow in 1901 or 1911 Census Vicki Houlbrooke On 19 February 2016 at 07:49, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello all, > > Not sure if there's a mystery here, but it's certainly an odd discovery. > > Bertrand Charles Lovelock from the Lieflock Line was killed in Italy on 28 > July 1944 at the age of 24, and his entry on the CWGC website records him > as the son of Charles and Rose - Frederick Charles Lovelock and Elizabeth > Rose Bristow, who married in 1917. > > Free BMD has no record of the birth of a Bertrand Charles. > > What is included in Free BMD is the birth in Jan-Mar 1920 of Bertram C > Lovelock, mother Stagg. However, Free BMD has no record of the marriage of > a Lovelock to a Stagg in the preceding 40 years. > > So was Bertrand mistakenly recorded as Bertram - perhaps an easy to > understand error - but how then to explain why his mother's maiden name was > recorded as Stagg instead of Bristow. Elizabeth Rose had not been married > before her marriage to Frederick Charles. > > Any ideas anyone? > > Regards > > Graham > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello all, Not sure if there's a mystery here, but it's certainly an odd discovery. Bertrand Charles Lovelock from the Lieflock Line was killed in Italy on 28 July 1944 at the age of 24, and his entry on the CWGC website records him as the son of Charles and Rose - Frederick Charles Lovelock and Elizabeth Rose Bristow, who married in 1917. Free BMD has no record of the birth of a Bertrand Charles. What is included in Free BMD is the birth in Jan-Mar 1920 of Bertram C Lovelock, mother Stagg. However, Free BMD has no record of the marriage of a Lovelock to a Stagg in the preceding 40 years. So was Bertrand mistakenly recorded as Bertram - perhaps an easy to understand error - but how then to explain why his mother's maiden name was recorded as Stagg instead of Bristow. Elizabeth Rose had not been married before her marriage to Frederick Charles. Any ideas anyone? Regards Graham

Hello again Charlotte, I don't know why you can't find the 1891 marriage on Ancestry - it's certainly there when I looked a few seconds ago. I generally use Free BMD as a first choice. You can't find the 1891 Census entry because Ancestry have it indexed as 'LONDACK'. You probably know how useless it is trying to get them to correct anything. The transcription on the website is, in my opinion, a correct interpretation of what the Enumerator actually wrote. On the subject of suspicious things the whole William and Sarah situation seems a proper mess at this remove, and so nothing in any of the entries surprises me, even if at first it appears not to make much sense. I can't suggest anything in respect of Elizabeth L in that 1891 entry, but it's worth noting that a William White was born in the West Ham RD in 1895, which would fit. Don't forget the 1911 'Grain Porter' entry. There's an Edith L there only 5 years old, so if my surmising that the two 1911 entries concern the same William Lovelock he and Sarah Ann White would not have split up until 1905 at the earliest. If there are indeed two William l/Sarah Ann W pairings I have not seen clear evidence of it, and if there were then a lot of other information seems to be missing. Regards Graham Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 14:17:15 -0800 Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... From: cahuggins55@gmail.com To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com Hello again Graham and Team: Well -- the mysteries on this story just keep getting bigger! I agree that there is something strange going on ~ and the whole thing is very confusing. Definitely a mystery! Graham and Team, when you have time, would you mind taking a look at a couple of things? I'm definitely not an expert, but I'm trying to reason out this mystery and have come across a couple of things that might cause further query (or maybe not). Thanks very much!! I know how busy you all are and I am very appreciative. Firstly, I have not been able to locate a marriage record for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann White. That isn't particularly unusual, but it makes me wonder. I have not been able to find it on Ancestry (and that may be because there has been A LOT of problems lately with the WHOLE Ancestry situation....). I will keep looking. Second, I have not been able to locate the 1891 Census listing that is referred to in the Lovelock website records for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann White. The website lists the surname being misspelled as "Lovelack", but I have not been able to locate that record at all. In addition, I noticed a couple of suspicious things about the listing that may or may not be an issue. First, there are two children, ages 7 and 5, listed for that Census record. That would mean they were born before their parents were married as indicated in the FreeBMD between July-Sept 1891. Not that it isn't a possibility -- but it is odd. Looking at the parents ages 28 and 29, that would mean they had the first of their children at about ages 20 and 21. That would have been in about 1884 and 1886. This would make the birth year for William about 1863 which is correct. Noting their ages when the first child was born, I would have expected them to have married around 1883 or 1884. It makes me wonder whether the FreeBMD marriage that is listed for them in 1891 is actually the correct record or is it for someone else? Unfortunately the name William Lovelock is fairly common and there are a bunch of them!! In the 1901 Census for Evans Forster, Sarah Ann White Lovelock's brother-in-law, Sarah Ann is listed as a domestic servant, so it appears that she IS living there rather than with her husband William Lovelock. Their daughter Lily Lovelock is age 6, and there is a little boy 6 months of age named Ernest Lovelock both living with their mother at the Forster residence. So, if my "logic" is correct and Sarah Ann and William Lovelock separated, it would have been within the 6 months prior to the 1901 Census being taken. Further complicating things ~ in the 1911 Census for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann Lovelock -- William is listed as a Grain Porter, born in London, Poplar, Middlesex, yet in the 1881 Census he is listed as a General Laborer born in Greenford, Middlesex. I don't know if this is an issue as both locations are in Middlesex, but it could be. Also -- my Grand Aunt Irene May was born in 1904, orphaned in 1905, and is not listed with this family. Could Sarah Ann be faking that she and her husband were still together?? It seems really odd to me that she would do this if they had actually broken up some 10 years earlier! Yes, they could have gotten back together -- but it appears my Grand Aunt Irene May was living at a completely different residence. Irene May shortly thereafter went to Canada with William Lovelock and his "wife" Alice C Nutley in 1912. Is it possible that we have two completely different William & Sarah Ann Lovelocks??? The one thing I know for sure is that my Grandfather's baby sister, Irene May Saunders, was living at age 6 with "a" William Lovelock, age 48, House Painter, at 12 Grove Place, Ealing, with his housekeeper, Alice C Nutley and her 13 year old son Walter George and a nurse child Mary Josephine Saunders 10 months old. This William said he was married, however his wife is not listed in the record. I am STUMPED!!! Very best regards,Charlotte Huggins I use Ancestry records, and have always found what I am looking for but recent changes in Ancestry have been causing people lots of issues. On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Charlotte Huggins <cahuggins55@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Graham, David, Yann and All!! Hello Hello from Washington State in the USA!!! Oh My Goodness!!! HOW DO I THANK YOU???? I have been reading this mystery and wondering if there was any connection to my family because of the location of Victoria British Columbia Canada, where my Mum was born. My Great Grandparents were Elizabeth Ann Lovelock and George Saunders who were married in 1884 as you mentioned above. Their son Frank Herbert Saunders was my Mum's Dad. Because my Grandad Frank Herbert was orphaned at age 10, it has been difficult to put together the whole picture. With wonderful help from Graham and the Lovelock Team, we were able to connect two of the Lovelock Trees a couple of years ago, because of something I stumbled upon by accident! I found a marriage between two Lovelocks from different trees that joyfully turned into the joining of two of the trees! We joined the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree and the Tidcome tree!!! Graham and Team -- your research above has just added some information that I needed! Thank you SO much. According to my Grandfather Frank Herbert's Barnardos' Homes records -- Elizabeth Ann Lovelock deserted her family some time in 1905 for another man, leaving all of their children, right down to two babies, including Irene May born in 1904, with her husband George Saunders. The records say George Saunders was a kind and loving father, but sadly he died 29 March 1906 of an enlarged liver from Alcoholism. There were relatives listed in the records, but it appeared none were willing to take in the older children. It did say the younger children may be placed with relatives for the short term. Elizabeth Ann's oldest child Frederick Charles Lovelock, who was born before she was married (base born....) was newly married and beginning his own family. He turned over three of his younger half brothers to Barnardos Homes and approved the clause that would allow them to be sent to Canada to work on farms. My Grandfather was only 11 years old and sent with a large group of other boys to "start a new life". One older and one younger brother were sent on a different ship to Canada as well. They never saw each other again. Very sad. My Grandfather had a very rough time in his placements. He was not treated well and eventually ran away from his last placement to find his own way in the world. Somehow he found that his eldest sister Alice was living in the Victoria BC area, and he made his way to her. That is where his new life really began. I have very "edited" records from Barnardos on my Grandads time with them. I also have a picture of each of the three boys from their intake at Barnardos. They make you want to cry. I have been able to trace marriage records for Grandads two brothers who also ended up in Canada, as well as his sister Alice and his baby sister Irene May, who eventually came to the USA. Your mention of Irene May age 6, niece, living with William Lovelock, is what is so exciting for me. It would appear that William Lovelock was possibly a brother to Elizabeth Ann Lovelock -- but now I have more mysteries!! I now need to find the right William Lovelock!! If his age listed as 38 in 1911 would have him born about 1873. It appears I may have one William Lovelock linked to two sets of parents, so now I'm really confused!!! I have him born in 1862 in Ruislip, Middlesex, but I believe that William was born to the Tidcome tree's Edward Lovelock and Jane Nightengale. I will do some more research, but would appreciate any assistance or clarification as to WHICH William Lovelock my Grand Aunt Irene May was living with!!! Apologies for the length of this -- but I so appreciate the information you have found. Today I am going to be working on this and hoping to find more answers. The mysteries never end do they??? Many thanks and very best regards,Charlotte Huggins On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville Road in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html PROBLEM: Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly Walter does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook working in Hammersmith. At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes us to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry for 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 (aged 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with recording himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the household. And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 Sarah (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged 6. But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, Ealing. The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in 1884. So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the birth entries! The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. If there is more to be added please let us know! Regards Graham > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com > > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia in > 1916. > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, BC. > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > >> Alice Lovelock > >> Born 1877 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Walter Lovelock > >> Born 1898 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > >> Walter George Lovelock > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > >> > >> David > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > >>> Alameda County, California: > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > >>> Yann > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > >>> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that > >>> includes the following: > >>> > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US > >>> 1923 > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > >>> > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the > >>> Croydon area in 1898: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > >>> > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > >>> > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. > >>> > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. > >>> > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > >>> > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Charlotte, How nice to hear from you again. You have enabled me to fill in more details, so you will find them revealed through this page: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I328&ged=ropley-tidcombe The man Elizabeth Ann went to was presumably Alfred Titus Lander, as they married in 1906, and had 3 children. The whole family have died as you will see. >From Elizabeth Ann's page you can go straight to her brother William's details through the 'Family Navigator' section on the right. His age was incorrectly recorded as 38 in the 1911 West Ham entry, but correctly recorded as 48 in the 1911 Ealing entry. There is one particular thing puzzling me. When your great-uncle Thomas Henry Saunders married in 1919 his mother's maiden name is recorded as Elizabeth Blunt, but that was his grandmother's second married name, being born Elizabeth Dear and marrying James Blunt after William Lovelock died. Have you any idea what was going on, or do you think it was just honest confusion deriving from his not very happy past? Kind regards Graham Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:22:47 -0800 Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... From: cahuggins55@gmail.com To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com Dear Graham, David, Yann and All!! Hello Hello from Washington State in the USA!!! Oh My Goodness!!! HOW DO I THANK YOU???? I have been reading this mystery and wondering if there was any connection to my family because of the location of Victoria British Columbia Canada, where my Mum was born. My Great Grandparents were Elizabeth Ann Lovelock and George Saunders who were married in 1884 as you mentioned above. Their son Frank Herbert Saunders was my Mum's Dad. Because my Grandad Frank Herbert was orphaned at age 10, it has been difficult to put together the whole picture. With wonderful help from Graham and the Lovelock Team, we were able to connect two of the Lovelock Trees a couple of years ago, because of something I stumbled upon by accident! I found a marriage between two Lovelocks from different trees that joyfully turned into the joining of two of the trees! We joined the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree and the Tidcome tree!!! Graham and Team -- your research above has just added some information that I needed! Thank you SO much. According to my Grandfather Frank Herbert's Barnardos' Homes records -- Elizabeth Ann Lovelock deserted her family some time in 1905 for another man, leaving all of their children, right down to two babies, including Irene May born in 1904, with her husband George Saunders. The records say George Saunders was a kind and loving father, but sadly he died 29 March 1906 of an enlarged liver from Alcoholism. There were relatives listed in the records, but it appeared none were willing to take in the older children. It did say the younger children may be placed with relatives for the short term. Elizabeth Ann's oldest child Frederick Charles Lovelock, who was born before she was married (base born....) was newly married and beginning his own family. He turned over three of his younger half brothers to Barnardos Homes and approved the clause that would allow them to be sent to Canada to work on farms. My Grandfather was only 11 years old and sent with a large group of other boys to "start a new life". One older and one younger brother were sent on a different ship to Canada as well. They never saw each other again. Very sad. My Grandfather had a very rough time in his placements. He was not treated well and eventually ran away from his last placement to find his own way in the world. Somehow he found that his eldest sister Alice was living in the Victoria BC area, and he made his way to her. That is where his new life really began. I have very "edited" records from Barnardos on my Grandads time with them. I also have a picture of each of the three boys from their intake at Barnardos. They make you want to cry. I have been able to trace marriage records for Grandads two brothers who also ended up in Canada, as well as his sister Alice and his baby sister Irene May, who eventually came to the USA. Your mention of Irene May age 6, niece, living with William Lovelock, is what is so exciting for me. It would appear that William Lovelock was possibly a brother to Elizabeth Ann Lovelock -- but now I have more mysteries!! I now need to find the right William Lovelock!! If his age listed as 38 in 1911 would have him born about 1873. It appears I may have one William Lovelock linked to two sets of parents, so now I'm really confused!!! I have him born in 1862 in Ruislip, Middlesex, but I believe that William was born to the Tidcome tree's Edward Lovelock and Jane Nightengale. I will do some more research, but would appreciate any assistance or clarification as to WHICH William Lovelock my Grand Aunt Irene May was living with!!! Apologies for the length of this -- but I so appreciate the information you have found. Today I am going to be working on this and hoping to find more answers. The mysteries never end do they??? Many thanks and very best regards,Charlotte Huggins On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville Road in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html PROBLEM: Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly Walter does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook working in Hammersmith. At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes us to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry for 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 (aged 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with recording himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the household. And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 Sarah (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged 6. But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, Ealing. The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in 1884. So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the birth entries! The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. If there is more to be added please let us know! Regards Graham > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com > > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia in > 1916. > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, BC. > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > >> Alice Lovelock > >> Born 1877 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Walter Lovelock > >> Born 1898 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > >> Walter George Lovelock > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > >> > >> David > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > >>> Alameda County, California: > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > >>> Yann > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > >>> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that > >>> includes the following: > >>> > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US > >>> 1923 > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > >>> > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the > >>> Croydon area in 1898: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > >>> > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > >>> > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. > >>> > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. > >>> > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > >>> > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville Road in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html PROBLEM: Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly Walter does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook working in Hammersmith. At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes us to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry for 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 (aged 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with recording himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the household. And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 Sarah (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged 6. But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, Ealing. The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in 1884. So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the birth entries! The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. If there is more to be added please let us know! Regards Graham > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com > > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia in > 1916. > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, BC. > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > >> Alice Lovelock > >> Born 1877 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Walter Lovelock > >> Born 1898 > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > >> Walter George Lovelock > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > >> > >> David > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > >>> Alameda County, California: > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > >>> Yann > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > >>> > >>> Hello all, > >>> > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that > >>> includes the following: > >>> > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US > >>> 1923 > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > >>> > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the > >>> Croydon area in 1898: > >>> > >>> > >>> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > >>> > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > >>> > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. > >>> > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. > >>> > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > >>> > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Graham > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Graham: Thanks for getting back to me, and it's wonderful to speak with you again also!!! I never EVER thought I would find out what happened to my Grandad's mother once she deserted the entire family. I have always wondered how a mother could leave her children like that. Your information is so welcome and I finally have the answer. Thank you so much. (I am wondering though -- if she had 3 more children, she was already 41 when she left the family! I guess it is possible though....) In answer to your question regarding my Grandad's brother Thomas Henry Saunders. My suspicion is since he was only age 7 when his mother Elizabeth Ann left the family, and his father George Saunders died, the only thing he could remember was his Grandmother's name and since his mother and grandmother's first names were the same -- he probably thought that was correct. Even though it was an error -- it was a great one for my research!!! It allowed me to find the right Thomas Henry Saunders, and know for sure that he was my Grandad's brother. By the time he was married in 1919 at age 21 memories could have faded. In addition, children in those situations were often kept apart so, maybe that is all he could remember. Since he was the youngest boy sent to Canada I don't know how much he knew about what happened to his family and why he was being sent away. He was so young when it happened, he may not have known his mother's maiden name was Lovelock even though presumably he and his siblings spent some time with his Lovelock cousins. I also don't know if he was ever able to re connect with any family in England, so he may not have ever known anything more. Best Regards and Thank you! Charlotte Huggins On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com > wrote: > Hello Charlotte, > > How nice to hear from you again. > > You have enabled me to fill in more details, so you will find them > revealed through this page: > > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I328&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > The man Elizabeth Ann went to was presumably Alfred Titus Lander, as they > married in 1906, and had 3 children. The whole family have died as you will > see. > > From Elizabeth Ann's page you can go straight to her brother William's > details through the 'Family Navigator' section on the right. His age was > incorrectly recorded as 38 in the 1911 West Ham entry, but correctly > recorded as 48 in the 1911 Ealing entry. > > There is one particular thing puzzling me. When your great-uncle Thomas > Henry Saunders married in 1919 his mother's maiden name is recorded as > Elizabeth Blunt, but that was his grandmother's second married name, being > born Elizabeth Dear and marrying James Blunt after William Lovelock died. > Have you any idea what was going on, or do you think it was just honest > confusion deriving from his not very happy past? > > Kind regards > > Graham > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 09:22:47 -0800 > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > From: cahuggins55@gmail.com > To: lovelockgraham@hotmail.com; lovelock@rootsweb.com > > > Dear Graham, David, Yann and All!! > > Hello Hello from Washington State in the USA!!! Oh My Goodness!!! HOW DO > I THANK YOU???? > > I have been reading this mystery and wondering if there was any connection > to my family because of the location of Victoria British Columbia Canada, > where my Mum was born. My Great Grandparents were Elizabeth Ann Lovelock > and George Saunders who were married in 1884 as you mentioned above. Their > son Frank Herbert Saunders was my Mum's Dad. > > Because my Grandad Frank Herbert was orphaned at age 10, it has been > difficult to put together the whole picture. With wonderful help from > Graham and the Lovelock Team, we were able to connect two of the Lovelock > Trees a couple of years ago, because of something I stumbled upon by > accident! I found a marriage between two Lovelocks from different trees > that joyfully turned into the joining of two of the trees! We joined the > Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree and the Tidcome tree!!! > > Graham and Team -- your research above has just added some information > that I needed! Thank you SO much. > > According to my Grandfather Frank Herbert's Barnardos' Homes records -- > Elizabeth Ann Lovelock deserted her family some time in 1905 for another > man, leaving all of their children, right down to two babies, including > Irene May born in 1904, with her husband George Saunders. The records say > George Saunders was a kind and loving father, but sadly he died 29 March > 1906 of an enlarged liver from Alcoholism. There were relatives listed in > the records, but it appeared none were willing to take in the older > children. It did say the younger children may be placed with relatives for > the short term. > > Elizabeth Ann's oldest child Frederick Charles Lovelock, who was born > before she was married (base born....) was newly married and beginning his > own family. He turned over three of his younger half brothers to Barnardos > Homes and approved the clause that would allow them to be sent to Canada to > work on farms. My Grandfather was only 11 years old and sent with a large > group of other boys to "start a new life". One older and one younger > brother were sent on a different ship to Canada as well. They never saw > each other again. Very sad. > > My Grandfather had a very rough time in his placements. He was not > treated well and eventually ran away from his last placement to find his > own way in the world. Somehow he found that his eldest sister Alice was > living in the Victoria BC area, and he made his way to her. That is where > his new life really began. I have very "edited" records from Barnardos on > my Grandads time with them. I also have a picture of each of the three > boys from their intake at Barnardos. They make you want to cry. > > I have been able to trace marriage records for Grandads two brothers who > also ended up in Canada, as well as his sister Alice and his baby sister Irene > May, who eventually came to the USA. Your mention of *Irene May **age 6, > niece, living with William Lovelock*, is what is so exciting for me. It > would appear that William Lovelock was possibly a brother to Elizabeth Ann > Lovelock -- but now I have more mysteries!! > > I now need to find the right William Lovelock!! If his age listed as 38 > in 1911 would have him born about 1873. It appears I may have one William > Lovelock linked to two sets of parents, so now I'm really confused!!! I > have him born in 1862 in Ruislip, Middlesex, but I believe *that* William > was born to the Tidcome tree's Edward Lovelock and Jane Nightengale. > > I will do some more research, but would appreciate any assistance or > clarification as to WHICH William Lovelock my Grand Aunt Irene May was > living with!!! > > Apologies for the length of this -- but I so appreciate the information > you have found. Today I am going to be working on this and hoping to find > more answers. > > The mysteries never end do they??? > > Many thanks and very best regards, > Charlotte Huggins > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Graham Lovelock via < > lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: > > William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene > Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal > Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. > > Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. > > The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when > Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. > > Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville Road > in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html > > PROBLEM: > > Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, > ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a > member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. > > The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N > Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) > Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. > > Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly Walter > does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant > subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was > recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. > > However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves > us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline > Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of > Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. > Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the > adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook > working in Hammersmith. > > At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes us > to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry for > 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html > > Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but > we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of > William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This > is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: > > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 (aged > 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with recording > himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the household. > > And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 Sarah > (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her > brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah > since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both > 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 > in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's > daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged > 6. > > But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man > she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a > William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent > (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been > misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, > Ealing. > > The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah > Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley > as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she > had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the > house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 > months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the > daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in > 1884. > > So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as > man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and > changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the > birth entries! > > The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California > Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee > White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both > she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common > an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. > > A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to > the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. > > If there is more to be added please let us know! > > Regards > > Graham > > > > > > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 > > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com > > > > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia > in > > 1916. > > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, > BC. > > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > > >> Alice Lovelock > > >> Born 1877 > > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from > Bristol. > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > > >> Walter Lovelock > > >> Born 1898 > > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from > Bristol. > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > > >> Walter George Lovelock > > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > > >> > > >> David > > >> > > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < > > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site > > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of > the > > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is > working > > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved > much > > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > > >>> Alameda County, California: > > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from > a > > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > > >>> Yann > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > > >>> > > >>> Hello all, > > >>> > > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that > > >>> includes the following: > > >>> > > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US > > >>> 1923 > > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > > >>> > > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to > the > > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara > Eaglestone, > > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in > the > > >>> Croydon area in 1898: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > >>> > > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in > that > > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their > eldest > > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his > name, > > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, > according > > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who > would > > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > > >>> > > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded > in > > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and > 1960 > > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just > to add > > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has > no > > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. > > >>> > > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, > > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 > Emily E > > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no > marriage of > > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and > Emily > > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. > > >>> > > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that > would > > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > > >>> > > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any > > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > > >>> > > >>> Regards > > >>> > > >>> Graham > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> > > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> > > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello again Graham and Team: Well -- the mysteries on this story just keep getting bigger! I agree that there is something strange going on ~ and the whole thing is very confusing. Definitely a mystery! Graham and Team, when you have time, would you mind taking a look at a couple of things? I'm definitely not an expert, but I'm trying to reason out this mystery and have come across a couple of things that might cause further query (or maybe not). Thanks very much!! I know how busy you all are and I am very appreciative. Firstly, I have not been able to locate a marriage record for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann White. That isn't particularly unusual, but it makes me wonder. I have not been able to find it on Ancestry (and that may be because there has been A LOT of problems lately with the WHOLE Ancestry situation....). I will keep looking. Second, I have not been able to locate the 1891 Census listing that is referred to in the Lovelock website records for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann White. The website lists the surname being misspelled as "Lovelack", but I have not been able to locate that record at all. In addition, I noticed a couple of suspicious things about the listing that may or may not be an issue. First, there are two children, ages 7 and 5, listed for that Census record. That would mean they were born before their parents were married as indicated in the FreeBMD between July-Sept 1891. Not that it isn't a possibility -- but it is odd. Looking at the parents ages 28 and 29, that would mean they had the first of their children at about ages 20 and 21. That would have been in about 1884 and 1886. This would make the birth year for William about 1863 which is correct. Noting their ages when the first child was born, I would have expected them to have married around 1883 or 1884. It makes me wonder whether the FreeBMD marriage that is listed for them in 1891 is actually the correct record or is it for someone else? Unfortunately the name William Lovelock is fairly common and there are a bunch of them!! In the 1901 Census for Evans Forster, Sarah Ann White Lovelock's brother-in-law, Sarah Ann is listed as a domestic servant, so it appears that she IS living there rather than with her husband William Lovelock. Their daughter Lily Lovelock is age 6, and there is a little boy 6 months of age named Ernest Lovelock both living with their mother at the Forster residence. So, if my "logic" is correct and Sarah Ann and William Lovelock separated, it would have been within the 6 months prior to the 1901 Census being taken. Further complicating things ~ in the 1911 Census for William Lovelock and Sarah Ann Lovelock -- William is listed as a Grain Porter, born in London, Poplar, Middlesex, yet in the 1881 Census he is listed as a General Laborer born in Greenford, Middlesex. I don't know if this is an issue as both locations are in Middlesex, but it could be. Also -- my Grand Aunt Irene May was born in 1904, orphaned in 1905, and is not listed with this family. Could Sarah Ann be faking that she and her husband were still together?? It seems really odd to me that she would do this if they had actually broken up some 10 years earlier! Yes, they could have gotten back together -- but it appears my Grand Aunt Irene May was living at a completely different residence. Irene May shortly thereafter went to Canada with William Lovelock and his "wife" Alice C Nutley in 1912. Is it possible that we have two completely different William & Sarah Ann Lovelocks??? The one thing I know *for sure* is that my Grandfather's baby sister, Irene May Saunders, was living at age 6 with "a" William Lovelock, age 48, House Painter, at 12 Grove Place, Ealing, with his housekeeper, Alice C Nutley and her 13 year old son Walter George and a nurse child Mary Josephine Saunders 10 months old. This William said he was married, however his wife is not listed in the record. I am STUMPED!!! Very best regards, Charlotte Huggins I use Ancestry records, and have always found what I am looking for but recent changes in Ancestry have been causing people lots of issues. On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Charlotte Huggins <cahuggins55@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Graham, David, Yann and All!! > > Hello Hello from Washington State in the USA!!! Oh My Goodness!!! HOW DO > I THANK YOU???? > > I have been reading this mystery and wondering if there was any connection > to my family because of the location of Victoria British Columbia Canada, > where my Mum was born. My Great Grandparents were Elizabeth Ann Lovelock > and George Saunders who were married in 1884 as you mentioned above. Their > son Frank Herbert Saunders was my Mum's Dad. > > Because my Grandad Frank Herbert was orphaned at age 10, it has been > difficult to put together the whole picture. With wonderful help from > Graham and the Lovelock Team, we were able to connect two of the Lovelock > Trees a couple of years ago, because of something I stumbled upon by > accident! I found a marriage between two Lovelocks from different trees > that joyfully turned into the joining of two of the trees! We joined the > Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree and the Tidcome tree!!! > > Graham and Team -- your research above has just added some information > that I needed! Thank you SO much. > > According to my Grandfather Frank Herbert's Barnardos' Homes records -- > Elizabeth Ann Lovelock deserted her family some time in 1905 for another > man, leaving all of their children, right down to two babies, including > Irene May born in 1904, with her husband George Saunders. The records say > George Saunders was a kind and loving father, but sadly he died 29 March > 1906 of an enlarged liver from Alcoholism. There were relatives listed in > the records, but it appeared none were willing to take in the older > children. It did say the younger children may be placed with relatives for > the short term. > > Elizabeth Ann's oldest child Frederick Charles Lovelock, who was born > before she was married (base born....) was newly married and beginning his > own family. He turned over three of his younger half brothers to Barnardos > Homes and approved the clause that would allow them to be sent to Canada to > work on farms. My Grandfather was only 11 years old and sent with a large > group of other boys to "start a new life". One older and one younger > brother were sent on a different ship to Canada as well. They never saw > each other again. Very sad. > > My Grandfather had a very rough time in his placements. He was not > treated well and eventually ran away from his last placement to find his > own way in the world. Somehow he found that his eldest sister Alice was > living in the Victoria BC area, and he made his way to her. That is where > his new life really began. I have very "edited" records from Barnardos on > my Grandads time with them. I also have a picture of each of the three > boys from their intake at Barnardos. They make you want to cry. > > I have been able to trace marriage records for Grandads two brothers who > also ended up in Canada, as well as his sister Alice and his baby sister Irene > May, who eventually came to the USA. Your mention of *Irene May **age 6, > niece, living with William Lovelock*, is what is so exciting for me. It > would appear that William Lovelock was possibly a brother to Elizabeth Ann > Lovelock -- but now I have more mysteries!! > > I now need to find the right William Lovelock!! If his age listed as 38 > in 1911 would have him born about 1873. It appears I may have one William > Lovelock linked to two sets of parents, so now I'm really confused!!! I > have him born in 1862 in Ruislip, Middlesex, but I believe *that* William > was born to the Tidcome tree's Edward Lovelock and Jane Nightengale. > > I will do some more research, but would appreciate any assistance or > clarification as to WHICH William Lovelock my Grand Aunt Irene May was > living with!!! > > Apologies for the length of this -- but I so appreciate the information > you have found. Today I am going to be working on this and hoping to find > more answers. > > The mysteries never end do they??? > > Many thanks and very best regards, > Charlotte Huggins > > > On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Graham Lovelock via < > lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: >> >> William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene >> Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal >> Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. >> >> Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. >> >> The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when >> Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. >> >> Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville >> Road in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: >> >> http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html >> >> PROBLEM: >> >> Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, >> ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a >> member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. >> >> The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N >> Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) >> Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. >> >> Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly >> Walter does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant >> subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was >> recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. >> >> However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves >> us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline >> Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of >> Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. >> Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the >> adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook >> working in Hammersmith. >> >> At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes >> us to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry >> for 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: >> >> http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html >> >> Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but >> we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of >> William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This >> is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: >> >> >> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe >> >> We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 >> (aged 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with >> recording himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the >> household. >> >> And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 >> Sarah (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her >> brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah >> since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both >> 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 >> in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's >> daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged >> 6. >> >> But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man >> she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a >> William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent >> (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been >> misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, >> Ealing. >> >> The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah >> Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley >> as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she >> had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the >> house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 >> months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the >> daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in >> 1884. >> >> So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as >> man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and >> changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the >> birth entries! >> >> The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California >> Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee >> White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both >> she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common >> an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. >> >> A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to >> the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. >> >> If there is more to be added please let us know! >> >> Regards >> >> Graham >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 >> > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... >> > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com >> > >> > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia >> in >> > 1916. >> > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk >> > >> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, >> BC. >> > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc >> > > >> > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > >> > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: >> > >> >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 >> > >> Alice Lovelock >> > >> Born 1877 >> > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from >> Bristol. >> > >> >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn >> > >> Walter Lovelock >> > >> Born 1898 >> > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from >> Bristol. >> > >> >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn >> > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War >> > >> Walter George Lovelock >> > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. >> > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock >> > >> >> > >> David >> > >> >> > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < >> > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site >> > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile >> of the >> > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is >> working >> > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have >> moved much >> > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, >> > >>> Alameda County, California: >> > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. >> > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family >> from a >> > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit >> . >> > >>> Yann >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >> > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >> > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 >> > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... >> > >>> >> > >>> Hello all, >> > >>> >> > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that >> > >>> includes the following: >> > >>> >> > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the >> US >> > >>> 1923 >> > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England >> > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England >> > >>> >> > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to >> the >> > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara >> Eaglestone, >> > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in >> the >> > >>> Croydon area in 1898: >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe >> > >>> >> > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in >> that >> > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their >> eldest >> > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' >> his name, >> > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, >> according >> > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who >> would >> > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. >> > >>> >> > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently >> recorded in >> > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and >> 1960 >> > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And >> just to add >> > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has >> no >> > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. >> > >>> >> > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in >> 1921, >> > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 >> Emily E >> > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no >> marriage of >> > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he >> and Emily >> > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. >> > >>> >> > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that >> would >> > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. >> > >>> >> > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any >> > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. >> > >>> >> > >>> Regards >> > >>> >> > >>> Graham >> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >>> >> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> > >>> ------------------------------- >> > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >>> >> > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> > >>> ------------------------------- >> > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the >> > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Lovelock family history Web pages: >> > http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Dear Graham, David, Yann and All!! Hello Hello from Washington State in the USA!!! Oh My Goodness!!! HOW DO I THANK YOU???? I have been reading this mystery and wondering if there was any connection to my family because of the location of Victoria British Columbia Canada, where my Mum was born. My Great Grandparents were Elizabeth Ann Lovelock and George Saunders who were married in 1884 as you mentioned above. Their son Frank Herbert Saunders was my Mum's Dad. Because my Grandad Frank Herbert was orphaned at age 10, it has been difficult to put together the whole picture. With wonderful help from Graham and the Lovelock Team, we were able to connect two of the Lovelock Trees a couple of years ago, because of something I stumbled upon by accident! I found a marriage between two Lovelocks from different trees that joyfully turned into the joining of two of the trees! We joined the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree and the Tidcome tree!!! Graham and Team -- your research above has just added some information that I needed! Thank you SO much. According to my Grandfather Frank Herbert's Barnardos' Homes records -- Elizabeth Ann Lovelock deserted her family some time in 1905 for another man, leaving all of their children, right down to two babies, including Irene May born in 1904, with her husband George Saunders. The records say George Saunders was a kind and loving father, but sadly he died 29 March 1906 of an enlarged liver from Alcoholism. There were relatives listed in the records, but it appeared none were willing to take in the older children. It did say the younger children may be placed with relatives for the short term. Elizabeth Ann's oldest child Frederick Charles Lovelock, who was born before she was married (base born....) was newly married and beginning his own family. He turned over three of his younger half brothers to Barnardos Homes and approved the clause that would allow them to be sent to Canada to work on farms. My Grandfather was only 11 years old and sent with a large group of other boys to "start a new life". One older and one younger brother were sent on a different ship to Canada as well. They never saw each other again. Very sad. My Grandfather had a very rough time in his placements. He was not treated well and eventually ran away from his last placement to find his own way in the world. Somehow he found that his eldest sister Alice was living in the Victoria BC area, and he made his way to her. That is where his new life really began. I have very "edited" records from Barnardos on my Grandads time with them. I also have a picture of each of the three boys from their intake at Barnardos. They make you want to cry. I have been able to trace marriage records for Grandads two brothers who also ended up in Canada, as well as his sister Alice and his baby sister Irene May, who eventually came to the USA. Your mention of *Irene May **age 6, niece, living with William Lovelock*, is what is so exciting for me. It would appear that William Lovelock was possibly a brother to Elizabeth Ann Lovelock -- but now I have more mysteries!! I now need to find the right William Lovelock!! If his age listed as 38 in 1911 would have him born about 1873. It appears I may have one William Lovelock linked to two sets of parents, so now I'm really confused!!! I have him born in 1862 in Ruislip, Middlesex, but I believe *that* William was born to the Tidcome tree's Edward Lovelock and Jane Nightengale. I will do some more research, but would appreciate any assistance or clarification as to WHICH William Lovelock my Grand Aunt Irene May was living with!!! Apologies for the length of this -- but I so appreciate the information you have found. Today I am going to be working on this and hoping to find more answers. The mysteries never end do they??? Many thanks and very best regards, Charlotte Huggins On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > So if I might summarise with thanks to Yann and David: > > William Lovelock, 49, Alice Lovelock, 35, Walter Lovelock, 14, and Irene > Lovelock, 8, sailed for Montreal from Bristol on 21 Aug 1912 on the 'Royal > Edward', and arrived on 28 Aug. > > Walter George was born somewhere in Wiltshire on 8 Nov 1895. > > The family had moved on to Victoria, British Columbia by 1 Sep 1915, when > Walter enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. > > Adding to that we know that in 1921 the family were at 655 Burnsville Road > in Victoria, and the Census entry provides plenty of detail: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1921%20Canada%20Census.html > > PROBLEM: > > Free BMD has the birth of only one Walter George Lovelock: Hungerford RD, > ref 2c 263 ..... but in the Apr-Jun quarter. This Walter George was a > member of the Lieflock Line and was killed in France in 1918. > > The 1921 Canada Census entry does lead to one other 'fact': Walter G N > Lovelock (note the 'N') married Irene Maguerite (sic, in her birth entry) > Kempston in the Reading RD, Jul-Sep 1919, ref 2c 1093. > > Irene travelled from Liverpool to Montreal later in 1919, but oddly Walter > does not appear to have been with her. I do not have the relevant > subscription to be able to view the manifest on Ancestry, so perhaps he was > recorded in some way other than as 'Walter'. > > However, we have one other piece of information on the website that moves > us on quite a bit: on 24 Jul 1919 William Lovelock married Alice Caroline > Nuttley in Victoria, BC. That leads to the discovery that the birth of > Walter George Nutley was registered in Oct-Dec 1897 in the Hungerford RD. > Walter and Alice are identifiable in the 1901 Census - Walter as the > adopted son of a couple named Cole in Little Bedwyn and Alice as a Cook > working in Hammersmith. > > At the 1919 marriage William was described as a Widower, and that takes us > to what seems to be the key to the whole story I think - the 1911 entry for > 12 Grove Place, Ealing, Middlesex: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/documents/1911-Census-Middlesex-Tree-tagged.html > > Free BMD has no birth record for a William in Greenford in 1862/1863, but > we do have a note in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' data of the baptism of > William the son of William and Elizabeth on 21 Dec 1862 at Greenford. This > is the following man in the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree: > > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I327&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > We have identified him in the 1871 (aged 8), 1881 (aged 18) and 1891 (aged > 28) Returns, and in 1891 he has a wife, Sarah A, consistent with recording > himself as married in 1911, although his wife was not then in the household. > > And now we get into potentially difficult territory. Because in 1901 Sarah > (who was born Sarah Ann White) was in West Ham, Essex in her > brother-in-law's household (Evans Forster). We know this is the same Sarah > since we know of the marriage of her sister, and her birthplace in both > 1891 and 1901 is Southampton, although her age was 29 in 1891 and only 37 > in 1901. Another piece of confirmatory evidence is that in 1911 Sarah's > daughter Lily was 16 and in the 1901 entry she was with her mother and aged > 6. > > But something is seriously wrong. Because in 1911 Sarah is with the man > she claims (quite correctly) to have been married to for 19 years - a > William Lovelock aged 38. We have been down this road before to some extent > (back in 2012), and although we concluded that William's age had been > misquoted, we failed to connect him also to the entry for Grove Place, > Ealing. > > The inevitable conclusion seems to be that William had parted from Sarah > Ann some time between 1901 and 1911, and had taken in Alice Caroline Nutley > as a housekeeper, along with her illegitimate son Walter George, whom she > had obviously reclaimed from Mr and Mrs Cole in Little Bedwyn. Also in the > house were Irene May Saunders (aged 6) and Mary Josephine Saunders (10 > months). Irene was described as William's niece, and is therefore the > daughter of his eldest sister Elizabeth Ann who married George Saunders in > 1884. > > So in August 1912 William and Alice, presenting themselves effectively as > man and wife, took off to Canada, taking Walter and Irene with them, and > changing the surnames all to Lovelock - no wonder we could not find the > birth entries! > > The last little twist in the tale is that according to the California > Death Index at FamilySearch William died on 9 Sep 1928. Sarah Ann (nee > White) married her brother-in-law Evans Forster in Apr-Jun 1928, so both > she and her husband were potentially bigamists, which can not be too common > an occurence, unless of course there had been a divorce. > > A rather tortuous tale, and I shall try to make appropriate amendments to > the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree very shortly. > > If there is more to be added please let us know! > > Regards > > Graham > > > > > > Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 11:59:08 -0700 > > To: yanda_lovelock@yahoo.co.uk; lovelock@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > > From: lovelock@rootsweb.com > > > > There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia > in > > 1916. > > http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, > BC. > > > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > > >> Alice Lovelock > > >> Born 1877 > > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from > Bristol. > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > > >> Walter Lovelock > > >> Born 1898 > > >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from > Bristol. > > >> > > >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > > >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > > >> Walter George Lovelock > > >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > > >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > > >> > > >> David > > >> > > >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < > > >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site > > >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of > the > > >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is > working > > >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved > much > > >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > > >>> Alameda County, California: > > >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > > >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from > a > > >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > > >>> Yann > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > > >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > > >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > > >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > > >>> > > >>> Hello all, > > >>> > > >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that > > >>> includes the following: > > >>> > > >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US > > >>> 1923 > > >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > > >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > > >>> > > >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to > the > > >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara > Eaglestone, > > >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in > the > > >>> Croydon area in 1898: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > >>> > > >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in > that > > >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their > eldest > > >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his > name, > > >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, > according > > >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who > would > > >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > > >>> > > >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded > in > > >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and > 1960 > > >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just > to add > > >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has > no > > >>> record of any of them going anywhere. > > >>> > > >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, > > >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 > Emily E > > >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no > marriage of > > >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and > Emily > > >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. > > >>> > > >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that > would > > >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > > >>> > > >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any > > >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > > >>> > > >>> Regards > > >>> > > >>> Graham > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> > > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> > > >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > >>> ------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I looked him up, out of interest. This site https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, Alameda County, California: http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . Yann From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... Hello all, The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that includes the following: Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US 1923 Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the Croydon area in 1898: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no record of any of them going anywhere. As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily presumably divorced not long after they married. I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. Regards Graham                          ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello all, The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that includes the following: Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US 1923 Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the Croydon area in 1898: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no record of any of them going anywhere. As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily presumably divorced not long after they married. I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. Regards Graham

There is a Lyon Philip Lovelock, mother Alice, born in British Columbia in 1916. http://tinyurl.com/z7eohhk On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:41 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, BC. > http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Following up on Yann's suggestion: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 >> Alice Lovelock >> Born 1877 >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn >> Walter Lovelock >> Born 1898 >> 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn >> Canadian Soldiers of the First World War >> Walter George Lovelock >> Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. >> Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock >> >> David >> >> On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via < >> lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >>> I looked him up, out of interest. This site >>> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the >>> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working >>> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much >>> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, >>> Alameda County, California: >>> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. >>> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a >>> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . >>> Yann >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >>> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 >>> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... >>> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that >>> includes the following: >>> >>> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US >>> 1923 >>> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England >>> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England >>> >>> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the >>> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, >>> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the >>> Croydon area in 1898: >>> >>> >>> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe >>> >>> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that >>> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest >>> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, >>> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according >>> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would >>> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. >>> >>> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in >>> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 >>> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add >>> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no >>> record of any of them going anywhere. >>> >>> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, >>> but we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E >>> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of >>> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily >>> presumably divorced not long after they married. >>> >>> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would >>> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. >>> >>> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any >>> help in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Graham >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Lovelock family history Web pages: >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >>> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >>> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> >

WG's signing up papers (Sept 1, 1915). Mother's address in Victoria, BC. http://tinyurl.com/h8be8fc On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:30 AM, David Lovelock <dlvlck@gmail.com> wrote: > Following up on Yann's suggestion: > > http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 > Alice Lovelock > Born 1877 > 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > > http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > Walter Lovelock > Born 1898 > 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. > > http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn > Canadian Soldiers of the First World War > Walter George Lovelock > Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. > Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock > > David > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com > > wrote: > >> I looked him up, out of interest. This site >> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the >> entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working >> as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much >> further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, >> Alameda County, California: >> http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. >> I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a >> different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . >> Yann >> >> >> >> From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 >> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... >> >> Hello all, >> >> The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that >> includes the following: >> >> Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US 1923 >> Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England >> Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England >> >> At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the >> Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, >> born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the >> Croydon area in 1898: >> >> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe >> >> It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that >> Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest >> child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, >> or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according >> to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would >> have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. >> >> As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in >> the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 >> respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add >> another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no >> record of any of them going anywhere. >> >> As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, but >> we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E >> Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of >> an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily >> presumably divorced not long after they married. >> >> I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would >> fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. >> >> Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any help >> in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. >> >> Regards >> >> Graham >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Following up on Yann's suggestion: http://tinyurl.com/jlupmn9 Alice Lovelock Born 1877 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn Walter Lovelock Born 1898 28 Aug 1912 arrived at Montreal on board the Royal Edward from Bristol. http://tinyurl.com/jf8dngn Canadian Soldiers of the First World War Walter George Lovelock Born 8 Nov 1895, Wiltshire. Mother Mrs Alice Lovelock David On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:07 AM, Yann Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I looked him up, out of interest. This site > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XCX8-X44 has a facsimile of the > entry and Lionel is recorded as being born in Canada. Walter G. is working > as a lumber mill foreman at that date. He doesn't seem to have moved much > further in his life since he (I presume) died in 1989 at SanLeandro, > Alameda County, California: > http://death-records.mooseroots.com/d/n/Walter-Lovelock. > I would advise sticking with that name and looking for a family from a > different tree who emigrated first to Canada if the facts don't fit . > Yann > > > > From: Graham Lovelock via <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, 15 February 2016, 17:11 > Subject: [LOVELOCK] Here's one for the sleuths ..... > > Hello all, > > The 1930 US Census has an entry for Oakland City, California that includes > the following: > > Alice C Lovelock, Age 52, Widowed, born in England, arrived in the US 1923 > Walter G Lovelock, Age 32, Divorced, born in England > Lionel P Lovelock, Age 14, born in England > > At present the entry is marked in our records as being relevant to the > Wroughton-Tidcombe Tree, solely on the basis of Alice Clara Eaglestone, > born 1878, having married John William Lovelock, also born 1878, in the > Croydon area in 1898: > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/family.php?famid=F92&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > It doesn't require a set of eagle eyes to spot that their family in that > Webtrees entry does not include a Walter G or a Lionel P. Their eldest > child was William George born 1899, so perhaps he had 'modified' his name, > or the Enumerator mis-heard. What is certain is that there was, according > to Free BMD, no Walter George born anywhere in England or Wales who would > have been 32 in 1930, nor any Lionel who would have been 14. > > As if that was not bad enough, Alice and John are presently recorded in > the W-T Tree as having died in the Bromley area of Kent in 1956 and 1960 > respectively, so Alice could not have been a widow in 1930. And just to add > another complication the Ships Passenger data we currently have has no > record of any of them going anywhere. > > As for William George, we know that he married Emily E Smith in 1921, but > we do not know what became of them after that. There are 2 or 3 Emily E > Lovelock deaths in England that could be her, and there is no marriage of > an Emily E Lovelock, so if Walter G was really William George he and Emily > presumably divorced not long after they married. > > I have not found another marriage of a Lovelock to an Alice C that would > fit with the US Census entry, but that may just be me at fault. > > Anyway, there seem to be a few unanswered questions in there, so any help > in reaching a solution will be much appreciated. > > Regards > > Graham > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the PhpGedView portal: > http://lovelock.free.fr/PGV/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello all, Sue Lovelock has spotted a lone Isle of Man Lovelock entry - the marriage of Arthur Victor Lovelock in Douglas in 1946. Unfortunately there are no other details available. Arthur is a member of the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree, and in 1984 he married Evelyn Downs somewhere in the North East Hampshire Registration District. Does anyone know the name of Arthur's first wife, when she died, or whether they had any children? Regards Graham