Hello all, One of Ian Fleming's James Bond stories is entitled 'You Only Live Twice'. Well, now it seems that was possibly true of a Lovelock! Between 1870 and 1920 Free BMD records the birth of two Richard George Lovelocks, in 1875 and 1901. They were father and son, and our 'Lovelocks in Surrey' collection records the baptism of the son in St Philip, Lambeth on 29 Sep 1901, the Register helpfully also recording the date of birth as 11 Sep 1901. A further search in Free BMD for the deaths of Richard G Lovelock between 1900 and 1983 turns up no less than 4 instances. We can discount for the present exercise the one who died in 1973 as the entry reveals that he was born on 30 Apr 1923. The remaining three death entries are in 1941 at the age of 65, in 1962 at the age of 60, and in 1981 with a date of birth of 26 Nov 1902. The Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfield Tree currently assumes that the 1941 death is that of the man born in 1875 and the 1962 death is that of his son as above, born in 1901. But who then is the man who died in 1981 having been born in 1902? Was the man born in 1901 born again in 1902 to live twice? A silly question, of course, but we are left with yet another Lovelock mystery. The 1939 Register, as we would expect, includes the men born in 1875, 1901 and 1923, but not the one born in 1902. In fact the Register does not include a single Richard G of any surname born on 26 Nov 1902. Regards, Graham

Hello all, I do not believe we have tackled this one before, but apologies if my memory fails me. A household at 7 Highmead Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex in 1939 comprised of Frederick C Lovelock, born 23 Mar 1883, and Rose E Lovelock, born 2 Mar 1884. Both were said to be married, and I assume to each other, although that is not necessarily so of course. Frederick Charles Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1973, in the Hendon RD, the entry including his date of birth of 23 Mar 1883. Hendon RD includes Wembley. As it happens, another Frederick Charles Lovelock had died in the previous quarter, in the Devizes RD (in Wiltshire of course), the entry giving his date of birth as 25 Mar 1901. Nothing inconsistent in those two entries, and so we now go to the GOV.UK 'Find a will' website where there is only one entry for a Frederick Charles in 1973 and the date of death quoted is 23 Mar 1973. So far so good; however the address quoted is 13 Hawthorne Grove, London, NW9. So far as I can determine Hawthorne Grove, which still exists, is in the Hendon RD, and some 60 to 70 miles distant, at least, from Devizes. Since I understand that deaths are registered in the quarter in which they occur and in the District where they take place and not in the District of residence it looks as though a significant mistake has been perpetrated in the probate records. There are two possibilities: that the probate entry should have a date of death in the Apr-Jun quarter and not in March, or the entry has the wrong address and should have one in Wiltshire. Neither seems very likely, but the facts are the facts. Let us now turn our attention to the lady in the 1939 Register entry. Rose Ellen Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1976 in Kensington RD, the entry including her date of birth of 2 Mar 1884. The probate record gives the date of death as 8 Jun 1976, but quotes her address as 24 Leigh Court, Byron Hill Road, Harrow on the Hill, Middlesex, which is most certainly not in the Kensington RD. I thought at first that Rose died in a hospital in Kensington RD, but in such cases that is normally part of the probate entry. To further add to the mysteries I can find no record of the marriage of Frederick and Rose. And, piling it on now, there seems to be no record of Frederick in any of the three Census Returns which should have included him, and he does not appear in any Military records that I have been able to search. If they were married before 1911 Rose does not appear as Rose Lovelock in that Census Return. There were no other Lovelocks at that address in 1939, so no potential children to track down, and the couple were very probably too old to have any children after the Register was compiled. Any other information or ideas anyone? Regards, Graham

Thanks for this identification, Vicki. As far as I am aware deaths are supposed to be recorded in the Index in the quarter in which they occurred, rather than in the quarter they were reported in. So this William should NOT have been the man if that rule had been followed. I had occasion to write to James recently about the potential for an apparent miracle to occur if the rules are followed. Imagine that an infant dies late on 31 December having been born some few hours earlier. The Register Office will have closed even if 31 December is a weekday, so the earliest the birth and death could be registered would be 2 January. As I understand that births are recorded in the quarter in which they are reported this infant would appear to have died before he or she was born based on the Index entries! Thanks also for mentioning the burial, Vicki - it sent me off to Deceased Online of course, and enabled several additions to the tree. But no further forward with William John ..... Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: vicki.houlbrooke@gmail.com <vicki.houlbrooke@gmail.com> on behalf of Vicki Houlbrooke <vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz> Sent: 28 September 2018 09:59 To: lovelocks6@btinternet.com; Lovelock family history Hi Sue and Graham I think the William Lovelock who died in Mar quarter 1976 has already been identified in the Hungerford - Shalbourne tree. He was the son of Joseph James and Alice Victoria Lovelock. DOB 23 Aug 1907. DOD 14 Mar 1976. Looks like he was buried in Southwark Cemetery 26 Mar 1976. Sorry I can't find anything else about William John Lovelock. Regards Vicki On 28 September 2018 at 19:18, SUE LOVELOCK via LOVELOCK < lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello Graham, > > Is it possible that this is the William Lovelock whose death was > registered in Camberwell in Q1 1976? Normally we expect deaths to be > registered pretty quickly, but this one occurred only a week before > Christmas so may not have been registered until the New Year? And > Camberwell is an adjoining district to Brixton. If so, his date of birth is > given as 23 Aug 1907. (Ref page 1828 vol 11). Not sure if this suggestion > helps or hinders! > > I will have a look at the Lyneham line query later today. > > Kind regards > Sue > > ----Original message---- > From : lovelockgraham@hotmail.com > Date : 27/09/2018 - 15:15 (GMTST) > To : lovelock@rootsweb.com > > Hello all, > > The images of Lovelock testators on the GOV.UK 'Find a will' website > include an entry for William John Lovelock. The entry states that he died > on 18 Dec 1975 and gives his address as 10 Horsford Road, London, SW2 > (probably Brixton). Probate was granted on 3 May 1976. > > Free BMD, Ancestry and Findmypast have no record of this death. > > Can anyone supply any other information? > > Regards, > > Graham

Hello all, If you check Free BMD from 1880 to 1948 for the birth of a Sidney W Lovelock there is only the one - Sidney William Lovelock, from the Lyneham Line born in 1908 (I1664). If you do the same check for a Sydney W Lovelock there isn't one. If you do a check from 1924 to 1983 for the marriage of a Sidney W Lovelock there isn't one of those either. But if you do the same check for a Sydney W Lovelock there are two marriages: in Lambeth RD in Jul-Sep 1948 to Elizabeth J Dunham and in Camberwell RD in Jul-Sep 1964 to Minnie E Harding (nee Attwood). The Lyneham Line states that the marriage in 1964 was the man born in 1908, but I am thinking the marriage in 1948 must be the same man as well. The 1939 Register confirms that Elizabeth Dunham married a Lovelock, but there's a problem (isn't there always?): her date of birth is given in the 1939 Register as 14 October 1895, and her marital status as married, but Free BMD can't identify the marriage. There is the death of an Elizabeth J Lovelock in the Lambeth RD in Oct-Dec 1959 which would have freed Sidney/Sydney to marry again in 1964, but the age quoted is 67 indicating a birth in 1891/2, not 1895. There is also the death of Elizabeth Jane Lovelock in the Canterbury RD in Jul-Sep 1973, according to Free BMD and Findmypast but the birthdate is quoted as 18 July 1895, not 14 October. (Bizarrely Ancestry has mistakenly indexed all of the Lovelocks in that quarter as Lovell-Lynn! However, they have the same birthdate for Elizabeth Jane Lovell-Lynn.) Another possibility, I suppose, is that Elizabeth Jane Lovelock married yet again after divorcing from Sidney/Sydney, but the only such marriage was in 1972 and that lady was apparently still alive in 2006 so can not be Mrs Dunham/Lovelock. So did Sidney William actually have two wives? Does anyone have any other information? Regards, Graham

Hi Sue and Graham I think the William Lovelock who died in Mar quarter 1976 has already been identified in the Hungerford - Shalbourne tree. He was the son of Joseph James and Alice Victoria Lovelock. DOB 23 Aug 1907. DOD 14 Mar 1976. Looks like he was buried in Southwark Cemetery 26 Mar 1976. Sorry I can't find anything else about William John Lovelock. Regards Vicki On 28 September 2018 at 19:18, SUE LOVELOCK via LOVELOCK < lovelock@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello Graham, > Is it possible that this is the William Lovelock whose death was > registered in Camberwell in Q1 1976? Normally we expect deaths to be > registered pretty quickly, but this one occurred only a week before > Christmas so may not have been registered until the New Year? And > Camberwell is an adjoining district to Brixton. If so, his date of birth is > given as 23 Aug 1907. (Ref page 1828 vol 11). Not sure if this suggestion > helps or hinders! > > I will have a look at the Lyneham line query later today. > > Kind regards > Sue > > ----Original message---- > From : lovelockgraham@hotmail.com > Date : 27/09/2018 - 15:15 (GMTST) > To : lovelock@rootsweb.com > Subject : [LOVELOCK] William John Lovelock > > Hello all, > > > The images of Lovelock testators on the GOV.UK 'Find a will' website > include an entry for William John Lovelock. The entry states that he died > on 18 Dec 1975 and gives his address as 10 Horsford Road, London, SW2 > (probably Brixton). Probate was granted on 3 May 1976. > > > Free BMD, Ancestry and Findmypast have no record of this death. > > > Can anyone supply any other information? > > > Regards, > > > Graham > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > lovelock.free.fr_&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r= > hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_ > HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=JCl0o6pxmoIO5adRnXmy7TUtR5tLCl > D0Gl51YYFDeAo&e= > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ > loveluck.net_LovelockTrees_&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r= > hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_ > HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=vuhp8apM3Qt8o619B5hTZ9uZUz0iJ5 > IXhF59wa52RYE&e= > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=g1ongQjdo-0Q26A_F-20cP1SgvhsO01ZeG_C-Mlc1b0&e=. > com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_rootswebpref&d=DwICaQ&c= > kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m= > iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s= > zZlV3bdFvKQv1RFJPmEmQ69G8PGqXPhD09rlYYrSgNM&e= > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@ > rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ > ancstry.me_2JWBOdY&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r= > hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_ > HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=fQGUDe2HJxBjHNFkMCIVTHs774146v > 74Egdj-JKoC6s&e= Terms and Conditions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__urldefense.proofpoint&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=g1ongQjdo-0Q26A_F-20cP1SgvhsO01ZeG_C-Mlc1b0&e=. > com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2HDBym9&d=DwICaQ&c= > kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m= > iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s= > 3YqHgNRtr3mdxccEtjCmIhGTebkW9XxqsV101YJTuZQ&e= > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lovelock.free.fr_&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=pq5Ii16ays5bl85cArT9p11SiI1sioqfUd5Pn52dRPM&e= > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__loveluck.net_LovelockTrees_&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=0OT-PhGEm5ajuW_A-zcAxXM6YjsdfIxryXHEiAYKEFA&e= > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_rootswebpref&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=D8nmYDrr4FkEglVq6_Q7tewQ1iC8exVjr8Qat4qBOPM&e= > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@ > rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2JWBOdY&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=C2ObQFd0tfPMBdYgnGlb6YKKkzIFXVvrybWuR6U_Zrk&e= Terms and Conditions: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2HDBym9&d=DwIBaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=NjIApZ5d2eULnnGyq7Z2soo8gtq1CwyQrvkHMDVO3tI&s=KmIWz03LGfEdM2j0MS4RiKWME-erZp86T4CK65Mflx4&e= > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Hello Graham, Is it possible that this is the William Lovelock whose death was registered in Camberwell in Q1 1976? Normally we expect deaths to be registered pretty quickly, but this one occurred only a week before Christmas so may not have been registered until the New Year? And Camberwell is an adjoining district to Brixton. If so, his date of birth is given as 23 Aug 1907. (Ref page 1828 vol 11). Not sure if this suggestion helps or hinders! I will have a look at the Lyneham line query later today. Kind regards Sue ----Original message---- From : lovelockgraham@hotmail.com Date : 27/09/2018 - 15:15 (GMTST) To : lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject : [LOVELOCK] William John Lovelock Hello all, The images of Lovelock testators on the GOV.UK 'Find a will' website include an entry for William John Lovelock. The entry states that he died on 18 Dec 1975 and gives his address as 10 Horsford Road, London, SW2 (probably Brixton). Probate was granted on 3 May 1976. Free BMD, Ancestry and Findmypast have no record of this death. Can anyone supply any other information? Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lovelock.free.fr_&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=JCl0o6pxmoIO5adRnXmy7TUtR5tLClD0Gl51YYFDeAo&e= Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__loveluck.net_LovelockTrees_&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=vuhp8apM3Qt8o619B5hTZ9uZUz0iJ5IXhF59wa52RYE&e= _______________________________________________ Email preferences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_rootswebpref&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=zZlV3bdFvKQv1RFJPmEmQ69G8PGqXPhD09rlYYrSgNM&e= Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2JWBOdY&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=fQGUDe2HJxBjHNFkMCIVTHs774146v74Egdj-JKoC6s&e= Terms and Conditions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2HDBym9&d=DwICaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=iPy7naMPcNC6xX_HvW7OuDAiGPG1ZRJ7mSXOOGYXD00&s=3YqHgNRtr3mdxccEtjCmIhGTebkW9XxqsV101YJTuZQ&e= Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello all, The images of Lovelock testators on the GOV.UK 'Find a will' website include an entry for William John Lovelock. The entry states that he died on 18 Dec 1975 and gives his address as 10 Horsford Road, London, SW2 (probably Brixton). Probate was granted on 3 May 1976. Free BMD, Ancestry and Findmypast have no record of this death. Can anyone supply any other information? Regards, Graham

There are Aborigine, Japanese, Italian and black Jamaican Lovelocks, Graham. Making ethnic assumptions has led you astray. As our cousin Claudette will confirm, Irvin was from her Jamaican line and yes, he married in Birmingham. Ultimately there were two Lovelocks of Jamaican origin who ended up in Manchester. A boxer who converted to Islam in the 60s came from that line, and another one was a 7th Day Adventist and converted through them to the Branch Davidians - he was one of the few who survived the Waco Massacre. Some of us Lovelock live charmed lives! Keep up the good work,Yann From: Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> To: "lovelock@rootsweb.com" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, 12 September 2018, 18:18 Subject: [LOVELOCK] Irvin Sylvester Lovelock Hello all, In Oct-Dec 1948 Irvin S Lovelock married Winifred Gough somewhere in the Birmingham Registration District.  Both Ancestry and Findmypast record the death of Irvine Sylvester Lovelock in 1993 in the Manchester Registration District. Findmypast gives only a birth year - 1924 - but Ancestry gives an exact date - 1 Nov 1924 - which is repeated on the FamilySearch website. Alas, there is no UK record of such a birth. I wondered, considering the forenames, if Irvin or Irvine was perhaps American or Canadian, but can find no trace. Winifred very possibly died in 2004, also in the Manchester Registration District, if that helps. She and Irvin appear to have had a son, but as he is probably still living I shall not name him here. Can anyone supply any more information? Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lovelock.free.fr_&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AD9nr-7JiPjYJxHU1EmvgXFNzOlnh3KKVjYG1zlNcNk&s=9BEIO6CpNiEZ-Ic_fR-XM5g8vHKLN2OTYAVsTBZxZhU&e= Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__loveluck.net_LovelockTrees_&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AD9nr-7JiPjYJxHU1EmvgXFNzOlnh3KKVjYG1zlNcNk&s=gfmI_BBsPfI8wgdeRmpKy4JVz0paUNdlX5iyGXcYCwg&e= _______________________________________________ Email preferences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_rootswebpref&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AD9nr-7JiPjYJxHU1EmvgXFNzOlnh3KKVjYG1zlNcNk&s=q_Ls9yA9u6BGgc-8x5XHBLuLpbkp6G_q1hKhigtsgj0&e= Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2JWBOdY&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AD9nr-7JiPjYJxHU1EmvgXFNzOlnh3KKVjYG1zlNcNk&s=Lo0UQv72h1CtkXZNOGfTSkHez7hGrkBELVhvtRZzH_E&e= Terms and Conditions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2HDBym9&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AD9nr-7JiPjYJxHU1EmvgXFNzOlnh3KKVjYG1zlNcNk&s=2kbLE-7wnKmJsj_3AGeg89Vt4KmqlI4UcVpzZVavURs&e= Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello all, In Oct-Dec 1948 Irvin S Lovelock married Winifred Gough somewhere in the Birmingham Registration District. Both Ancestry and Findmypast record the death of Irvine Sylvester Lovelock in 1993 in the Manchester Registration District. Findmypast gives only a birth year - 1924 - but Ancestry gives an exact date - 1 Nov 1924 - which is repeated on the FamilySearch website. Alas, there is no UK record of such a birth. I wondered, considering the forenames, if Irvin or Irvine was perhaps American or Canadian, but can find no trace. Winifred very possibly died in 2004, also in the Manchester Registration District, if that helps. She and Irvin appear to have had a son, but as he is probably still living I shall not name him here. Can anyone supply any more information? Regards, Graham

Hello All, Maria Emma Lovelock from the Islington Tree was born on 18 dec 1859 in Hornsey, Middlesex, England. She was baptised as the daughter of Thomas and Maria on 18 Jan 1860, her father being recorded as a Senior Clerk of the East India Railway. The family seem to have escaped being recorded in the 1861 Census, but are easily found in 1871 living with Maria's widowed father William Jones. Thomas was recorded as Secretary of the East India Railway of Calcutta. For some reason Thomas and Maria, together with their three surviving children, departed for the USA in 1875 and are to be found in Madison, Orange County, Virginia in the 1880 US Census. Thomas was recorded this time as a Farmer. Clearly the farming life did not suit Thomas, and in 1901 he was back in the UK in Tottenham, Middlesex, with family that still included daughter Maria E Lovelock, aged 41 and single. Maria Emma had a sister Isabella Laura who was born in 1861. Isabella (recorded as Laura I) was with her parents in Virginia in 1880, but she was certainly back in the UK by 1890 as she married Francis Greene at St Mary, Islington on 28 Jul 1890. Francis was a farmer born in Ireland, but it is possible that he and Isabella had met in Virginia as at their marriage his address was given as the Caledonian Hotel in Adelphi Terrace. The couple are subsequently identifiable in the US Censuses for 1900, 1910 and 1920, and the widowed Isabella (again recorded as Laura I) in the 1930 Census. But the particular point of interest in their marriage entry is that one of the witnesses was a Daisy Hill. Who could she be? Fast forward to 1911 to 4 Norma Villas in Tottenham, Middlesex - the home of Thomas the retired Secretary of the East India Railway and wife Maria - and a member of the household is one Daisy Rippon, their widowed daughter. Helpfully Thomas recorded in the entry, although he should not have, that Daisy had been married for 5 years. That allows us to home in on the marriage in Jul-Sep 1905 in Marylebone of a William Brakspear Rippon and Daisy Maria E Hill. Fortunately the London Metropolitan Archive includes the marriage, and the image of the Register at Ancestry shows that William was a widowed 60-year-old Factory Manager from Newcastle on Tyne, and his wife was the 45-year-old widowed Daisy Maria Emma Hill, whose father was Thomas Lovelock, a retired Railway Secretary. Maria's younger brother George Albert was one of the witnesses. Thus Maria Emma had obviously married a Mr Hill some time before 1890. Free BMD has no such marriage, so I presumed the marriage took place in the USA. It did - and the FamilySearch website transcription furnishes the information that Daisy Maria Emma Lovelock married Alexander Douglas Hill in Manhattan, New York on 15 Jan 1888. Neither Daisy/Maria nor Alexander seem to have been recorded in the 1891 Census. So for some reason between 1880 and 1888 Maria decided to adopt the name Daisy. Presumably her father was not happy with that, or else why was she recorded as Maria E Lovelock in 1901, and why does that entry say she was single when she must either have been married or widowed? Had Alexander abandoned her, or was it the other way about? When she died in 1952 the death was registered in the name of Maria E Rippon, but the Abney Park Trust's website records her burial entry as both Daisy Rippon - alias Maria Emma and Maria Emma Rippon - alias Daisy. Regards, Graham

Hello all, Six months ago, on 3 March to be precise, Sir Roger Gilbert Bannister CH, CBE died. He is particularly famous for running a mile in 3 minutes 59.4 seconds on 6 May 1954, generally reported as the first sub-4-minute mile. However, on 13 November 1999 the 'Liverpool Echo' published a letter from a Mr Michael Wray of Bidston in which he claimed that in 1935 - 19 years before Dr Bannister's performance - Jack Lovelock ran not one but two sub-4-minute miles in 3 minutes 56 seconds and 3 minutes 52 seconds. Mr Wray offers two explanations for these achievements being overlooked: firstly simply because world communications were less well developed before the Second World War, and secondly because Jack Lovelock did not want his achievements to overshadow the forthcoming 1936 Olympics. Alas, Mr Wray quotes no sources for his information. Has anybody seen the evidence that would support his assertions? Regards, Graham

Hello all, You will be pleased to hear that Rootsweb's staff have now restored the messages from 2000, so our Archive is once again complete: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lovelock.free.fr_mail-2Dlist.htm&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AEUNf9mWoCIANRXzRxrbhIjJ948iceUsbD1z9d0m_V8&s=ec7wKuugBQ9HgN5MsnM0Ylwkfd2D_MGymRnusJDVh4U&e= Regards, Graham

Ah! - thanks, Samantha - the name Braislford rang a bell. Back in 2011 Vicky Houlbrooke found a website which provided photographs of gravestones and amongst them was one which names Frances (as a Brailsford), Reginald (as a Lovelock), Reginald's wife Winifred and their son Francis. The notes that the website owner has put together name the parents of Frances and the children of Francis as well as providing a number of dates: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gravestonephotos.com_public_findfamily.php-3Fname-3DLovelock&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=Ps-nJ3B3CCo1YRvJdbDiKhEADIz-2BfWgWqfsTxE-qg&s=NAEzXshxdoH0F_-Blpt8Cv0nTXL3gL3aiVNTB-Tlfzw&e=. With all that we were able to identify them as members of the Dowdeswell Tree. I think Mr Brailsford was being very naughty in 1911, but I guess the main reason was to hide the fact of Reginald's birth. As Reginald was 16 it was appropriate to claim to have been married for 17 years rather than the true 7. And of course although Mr Brailsford/Bayley MAY have been the father of Reginald it was not true to claim that Reginald was the child of the marriage. Just why the name of Bayley was adopted I can't think, although as long as it is not for fraudulent purposes my understanding is that you can give yourself any name you like. Thanks for clearing this one up - my memory's clearly not what it was! Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: samanthavalentine@live.ca <samanthavalentine@live.ca> Sent: 31 August 2018 02:48 To: lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Which family tree? Hi Graham, It appears that the reason Reginald and his mum don't show up in the 1911 census is because they are listed under the last name of Bayley. They are listed at 47 Heron Rd. in London as John G. Bayley - husband Frances Bayley - wife Reginald Bayley - son Sarah Lovelock - mother in law While the birth years and age differences and first names match, perhaps the most solid piece of evidence is the address. Frances Evelyn Nellie Bayley is listed in the electoral registers beginning in 1926 for 3 consecutive years, living with Reginald Francis Lovelock at 47 Heron Rd. After that, in 1932, her name suddenly switches to Francis Evelyn Nellie Brailsford at the same address for the next 8 years or so. I can't imagine too many Lovelock ladies were born in the same year with the full name Frances Evelyn Nellie, and even if there were that they would all reside at the same address for 10+ years. The marriage dates and last name issue definitely gums up the works a bit as her marriage certificate in 1903 lists her as marrying John Brailsford and the above census information is from 1911. What makes it even stranger is that while a census can often have strange transcription errors and such, this one is actually hand-signed by J. G. Bayley certifying the information to be true! If anybody can help explain that, I would be very grateful. Just as a side note, Reg's son Francis John did in fact marry, and his younger son is my partner. :) Kind Regards, Samantha [https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ipmcdn.avast.com_images_icons_icon-2Denvelope-2Dtick-2Dround-2Dorange-2Danimated-2Dno-2Drepeat-2Dv1.gif&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=Ps-nJ3B3CCo1YRvJdbDiKhEADIz-2BfWgWqfsTxE-qg&s=fPYPT6_MbUgMXRy1ZT6bGXlUepKgxW8yBIwz6gqIIfc&e=]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=Ps-nJ3B3CCo1YRvJdbDiKhEADIz-2BfWgWqfsTxE-qg&s=iDj-FOaqZuvV9MxUPdColZ-K3yn_KyubCzeL9MzJqbw&e=> Virus-free. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.avast.com&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=Ps-nJ3B3CCo1YRvJdbDiKhEADIz-2BfWgWqfsTxE-qg&s=sJQof62kNNOy40QgD_tOw8ql1fHmTjiYrXt4PUq0NrY&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=Ps-nJ3B3CCo1YRvJdbDiKhEADIz-2BfWgWqfsTxE-qg&s=iDj-FOaqZuvV9MxUPdColZ-K3yn_KyubCzeL9MzJqbw&e=>

Hi Graham, It appears that the reason Reginald and his mum don't show up in the 1911 census is because they are listed under the last name of Bayley. They are listed at 47 Heron Rd. in London as John G. Bayley - husband Frances Bayley - wife Reginald Bayley - son Sarah Lovelock - mother in law While the birth years and age differences and first names match, perhaps the most solid piece of evidence is the address. Frances Evelyn Nellie Bayley is listed in the electoral registers beginning in 1926 for 3 consecutive years, living with Reginald Francis Lovelock at 47 Heron Rd. After that, in 1932, her name suddenly switches to Francis Evelyn Nellie Brailsford at the same address for the next 8 years or so. I can't imagine too many Lovelock ladies were born in the same year with the full name Frances Evelyn Nellie, and even if there were that they would all reside at the same address for 10+ years. The marriage dates and last name issue definitely gums up the works a bit as her marriage certificate in 1903 lists her as marrying John Brailsford and the above cenus information is from 1911. What makes it even stranger is that while a census can often have strange transcription errors and such, this one is actually hand-signed by J. G. Bayley certifying the information to be true! If anybody can help explain that, I would be very grateful. Just as a side note, Reg's son Francis John did in fact marry, and his younger son is my partner. :) Kind Regards, Samantha

Good afternoon, My partner is one of the grandsons of Reginald F. F. Lovelock if anybody is still looking for further information. Kind Regards, Samantha Sent from Mail<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__go.microsoft.com_fwlink_-3FLinkId-3D550986&d=DwIFAg&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=U3ixehyybGvQNcK8YWyJ19gsoD41A_Wm1G3RIjChZA4&s=DIJV4qWS6j_UtwBpUXPPjdBes3DZq_r4lC9QaU3pwEk&e=> for Windows 10

Graham, I would be prepared to assist. I have both Ancestry & FMP access. Regards, Julie Goucher Sent from my iPad  > On 28 Aug 2018, at 19:32, Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Hello all, > > > Those of you without an account at one or more of the subscription websites with respect to Birth, Marriage and Death data for England and Wales have at present Free BMD as your main, and only significant, source of information, but that project has a currently declared end-date of 1983. > > > We do have some data from the period post-1983 in the files that Robert and Malcolm put together but only of deaths and only to 1992. There is also some recently assembled data from the 'Find a Will' website which provides a modicum of information on testate deaths from 1996 to 2018, but that's about all we've got in a coordinated form. > > > Whereas, Ancestry has transcribed Lovelock and Loveluck births up to 2006, Lovelock marriages to 2005, Loveluck marriages to 2004, Lovelock deaths to 2007 and Loveluck deaths to 2006. On top of that both Ancestry and Findmypast have some data on some Lovelock deaths up to 2017. > > > Would any of you with a subscription to Ancestry, et al, be prepared to volunteer to contribute to a transcription project to capture the Post-1983 data? > > > There are 24 years to be covered and I would propose that initially volunteers take just one year to transcribe the three kinds of entry for both Lovelocks and Lovelucks. I can produce a reporting template, and of course I would undertake putting the collected data into a suitable form for the website. > > > If you would like to volunteer please contact me off-list. All volunteers would of course be credited on the website in due course, unless they prefer to remain anonymous. > > > Regards, > > > Graham > > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lovelock.free.fr_&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=8Yvhpe30z_LtkUlKDryZqNiF8Sl5OGrdmLxCOA5nACk&s=kvc9FEwUO_4KQpN4cN1s-e2UpzRK4MutEn0ReZwdXts&e= > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__loveluck.net_LovelockTrees_&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=8Yvhpe30z_LtkUlKDryZqNiF8Sl5OGrdmLxCOA5nACk&s=3VXGQc0x7b474JNqpmL6BASuNa-1V7yCFz0GjCOfyaU&e= > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__bit.ly_rootswebpref&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=8Yvhpe30z_LtkUlKDryZqNiF8Sl5OGrdmLxCOA5nACk&s=3TNHncTLtxHPyDScWoPpcXTYrANyJmhQSmz8vCiFwHE&e= > Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2JWBOdY&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=8Yvhpe30z_LtkUlKDryZqNiF8Sl5OGrdmLxCOA5nACk&s=HgI7dqzG5aas0X_1nADWbODD80c-g1pODUhresAj_L8&e= Terms and Conditions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ancstry.me_2HDBym9&d=DwIFaQ&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=8Yvhpe30z_LtkUlKDryZqNiF8Sl5OGrdmLxCOA5nACk&s=vSsN5q6G3yoW3Oa9VaheHsqYAfdhFh68l8I14oSUdCk&e= > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello all, Those of you without an account at one or more of the subscription websites with respect to Birth, Marriage and Death data for England and Wales have at present Free BMD as your main, and only significant, source of information, but that project has a currently declared end-date of 1983. We do have some data from the period post-1983 in the files that Robert and Malcolm put together but only of deaths and only to 1992. There is also some recently assembled data from the 'Find a Will' website which provides a modicum of information on testate deaths from 1996 to 2018, but that's about all we've got in a coordinated form. Whereas, Ancestry has transcribed Lovelock and Loveluck births up to 2006, Lovelock marriages to 2005, Loveluck marriages to 2004, Lovelock deaths to 2007 and Loveluck deaths to 2006. On top of that both Ancestry and Findmypast have some data on some Lovelock deaths up to 2017. Would any of you with a subscription to Ancestry, et al, be prepared to volunteer to contribute to a transcription project to capture the Post-1983 data? There are 24 years to be covered and I would propose that initially volunteers take just one year to transcribe the three kinds of entry for both Lovelocks and Lovelucks. I can produce a reporting template, and of course I would undertake putting the collected data into a suitable form for the website. If you would like to volunteer please contact me off-list. All volunteers would of course be credited on the website in due course, unless they prefer to remain anonymous. Regards, Graham

..... because Rootsweb's workers have now restored 2003, 2002 and 2001 as well: https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/lovelock@rootsweb.com/2001/1/ James established the List at some point in 2000 so there are comparatively few messages now missing. Graham ________________________________ From: Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> Sent: 22 August 2018 10:37 To: lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject: Mailing List Archive Hello all, Good news for anyone who likes poking about in the Archives to see what we were discussing in past times. Rootsweb have now managed to restore the 2004 messages: https://lists.rootsweb.com/hyperkitty/list/lovelock@rootsweb.com/2004/1/ Only 4 more years to go! Regards, Graham [https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ipmcdn.avast.com_images_icons_icon-2Denvelope-2Dtick-2Dround-2Dorange-2Danimated-2Dno-2Drepeat-2Dv1.gif&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AfBTfoQ92B6cgLlYieO3Izupibxg_ZoBthhHfht79ao&s=lTUJsCtj5YgceQFcq9daHTZiklKaDR4hwaNMM-QsjxI&e=]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AfBTfoQ92B6cgLlYieO3Izupibxg_ZoBthhHfht79ao&s=EnOOZVsiPOFWDiAXmYrqrg2jic02hGgWIneZ6wSLG-c&e=> Virus-free. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.avast.com&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AfBTfoQ92B6cgLlYieO3Izupibxg_ZoBthhHfht79ao&s=Z8GRH5g4fKQklUgQiNA-K8PmV2fFs1lVTdR3bZZpV8E&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=AfBTfoQ92B6cgLlYieO3Izupibxg_ZoBthhHfht79ao&s=EnOOZVsiPOFWDiAXmYrqrg2jic02hGgWIneZ6wSLG-c&e=>

Hello all, Here's another partially tragic tale, with the usual loose ends, and some salutary lessons regarding once again the need to check every possible source to get to the right answer. Catherine Elizabeth Lovelock from the Dowdeswell Tree married George Gain on 24 Jan 1837 - the information is included in our 'Lovelocks in Middlesex' collection. The witnesses to the marriage were Catherine's uncle Job Lovelock and his daughter Caroline Elizabeth. Caroline's mother was Kitty Blaby Cocks. George and Catherine Gain produced 3 daughters: Catharine Mary in 1837 (died 1839) Mercy Rebecca in 1841 (died 1878) Kitty Blaby Caroline in 1849 The couple were probably in the Hastings area of Sussex in 1841 but I haven't managed to find the entry. However, in 1851 they were at 3 Market Street in Hastings with both of their youngest daughters. In 1861 Mercy was a General Servant for a Ham Dealer in Southwark. Kitty meanwhile was in Camberwell, but is recorded as the 12 year old daughter, born in Hastings, of Jane Gain, who in turn is recorded as a Baker's wife. The 1851 Census entry confirms that George was a Baker. But Jane was born in Frankwell in Shropshire, and was only 26 years old, whilst Kitty's true mother Catherine would have been 54. Obviously (!) George had married again, but the only possible marriage in Free BMD of a George and Jane was in Southampton RD in 1860 - George Gain and (perhaps) Jane Compton. However we can forget that because the 1 year old son James Gain born in Camberwell who was also with Jane in 1861 seems to be the James Richard Gain born in the Newington RD (ie not in Camberwell) in Jan-Mar 1860 whose mother's maiden name was Chidley. That takes us to the image of the Marriage Register for St Mary, Newington at Ancestry which has the entry for George Gain, Widower, Confectioner, and Jane Chidley on 27 Jul 1856. Findmypast has a correct transcription (in the sense that it matches the Register), although looking at the two GRO images they do seem to me to have different page numbers, which is why Free BMD have not linked the entries. So what happened to Catherine Elizabeth Gain (nee Lovelock)? Her death was recorded under the surname Gains (not Gain) in Lambeth RD in Oct-Dec 1855 at the age of 48. And so to her remaining two daughters. Mercy married a John Mead in Jan-Mar 1863 and died in Jul-Sep 1878, having produced 4 sons and a daughter. But Kitty ....? She must be the Kitty Gain who married Thomas Field in Jan-Mar 1871 in the Westminster RD, for the couple are easily found in the 1871 Census where her birthplace is recorded as Hastings, Sussex (although Ancestry has it indexed as Hastings, Surrey - somebody really should buy their transcribers a gazetteer!). Alas, by 1881 tragedy struck. Kitty (rendered as Kathy by Ancestry) and daughter Mary were in the Westminster Union Workhouse, son Henry and daughter Kate were in the Westminster Union St James School in Wandsworth, and Thomas could well be the man being detained at Her Majesty's pleasure in Wandsworth Prison, although his birthplace (Barking, Essex) does not match that of 1871 (Hackney, Middlesex) although the age is correct. In 1891 Kitty, now calling herself Kate Field, was a Laundress and a widow, born in Hastings, aged 43 and living in Southwark with a daughter Ellen and son Frederick. There also seems to have been a son Albert born in 1879 - certainly his mother's maiden name is recorded as Gain - as with the births of a George in 1884 and a James William in 1886. Son George died in Apr-Jun 1886, James William in the quarter after that, and Thomas in the quarter after that. A triple body-blow. And then? You will not be surprised to hear that Kitty/Kate seems to disappear. So for that matter do Ellen and Frederick. I did say there were some loose ends ..... Regards, Graham [https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ipmcdn.avast.com_images_icons_icon-2Denvelope-2Dtick-2Dround-2Dorange-2Danimated-2Dno-2Drepeat-2Dv1.gif&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=qaX92TA3ba71jgHM9XqM-HNiR4CtWkBJb7sxY-1wLv0&s=DTR-CLQgZUjavbmIf9uiJMAzKkkWr47B2EWfPMfPRG8&e=]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=qaX92TA3ba71jgHM9XqM-HNiR4CtWkBJb7sxY-1wLv0&s=5q_lh_FNTiNhShLA_xLh1sy5M1cz_hyzescQsduhpaA&e=> Virus-free. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.avast.com&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=qaX92TA3ba71jgHM9XqM-HNiR4CtWkBJb7sxY-1wLv0&s=TNkinLyRXA31gXa8OqFMSalHsMxRPaXWzYUjFy4YPZ0&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=qaX92TA3ba71jgHM9XqM-HNiR4CtWkBJb7sxY-1wLv0&s=5q_lh_FNTiNhShLA_xLh1sy5M1cz_hyzescQsduhpaA&e=>

Hello all, Sophia Payne married Henry Lovelock of the Dowdeswell Tree in 1849. The marriage took place in St Mary, Stoke Newington, London. In the 1851 Census Sophia and Henry, with son Charles, were living with Henry's sister Rosanna and her husband Thomas Lunn in Great Suffolk Street in Southwark, London. Sophia's place of birth was recorded as Brentford, Middlesex and her age as 31. Imagery from 'Dr Williams's Library' at Ancestry indicates that she was born on 25 Sep 1819 although a registration date for her and 5 siblings is given as 30 June 1837. Fast forward to 1893 and the death of a Sophia Lovelock aged 73 was recorded in the Kensington RD in the Apr-Jun quarter. If the lady who married Henry in 1849 is the lady who died in 1893, where was she in 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1891? Do you have a search strategy that can find her as I obviously do not? Regards, Graham [https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__ipmcdn.avast.com_images_icons_icon-2Denvelope-2Dtick-2Dround-2Dorange-2Danimated-2Dno-2Drepeat-2Dv1.gif&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=1VrEVttqFf6vnm_hkdzoX4sKKwbBHFvc6YCoiJNab9E&s=m4Vp6Xi0XXq9nQhuICBXW09mjRXn1VnAkQSVgAQt7vw&e=]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=1VrEVttqFf6vnm_hkdzoX4sKKwbBHFvc6YCoiJNab9E&s=jLy-CIuCBat7WcQkPcq4lVdb6HjyIR4byr1Ae-U8eYo&e=> Virus-free. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.avast.com&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=1VrEVttqFf6vnm_hkdzoX4sKKwbBHFvc6YCoiJNab9E&s=JCAgYEj2CRGMIdA0EMpfF8fWWukd3lbT_89RrSYsHHE&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail&d=DwIFAw&c=kKqjBR9KKWaWpMhASkPbOg&r=hFYkjJ0Abymve4FOiSRpElWZy6phqmjQEUJupyUnsn0&m=1VrEVttqFf6vnm_hkdzoX4sKKwbBHFvc6YCoiJNab9E&s=jLy-CIuCBat7WcQkPcq4lVdb6HjyIR4byr1Ae-U8eYo&e=>