Thanks Graham It is bed time for me, but I'll have a look while you are asleep....OK Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Graham Lovelock" <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> To: "Lovelock family history" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, 27 Oct, 2018 At 7:35 PM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Lovelock convicts to Australia Good day, Col, Ah - a question I do know the answer to, for a change! Two ways: one is to go to the 'Search' facility in the drop-down menu from the 'Home' tab at the top of the page. If you enter the word convicts in the Search box the first option that comes up is the 'Crime and Punishment' page. Go to that and scroll down to just about halfway and there's the material you are after. The other way (if you know your way about the website, which I realise most do not in the way I do) is to go to 'General' in the drop-down menu from the 'Sources' tab at the top of the page and then to select 'Crime and Punishment' from the links that appear. You will find that each of the five convicts that we know went to Australia are linked to their entries in the appropriate Webtrees file, in case that is what you are really after. Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: colinbm1 colinbm1 <colinbm1@bigpond.com> Sent: 27 October 2018 01:44 To: Lovelock family history Subject: [LOVELOCK] Lovelock convicts to Australia Hi Graham I have had difficulties in using the family trees on the Lovelock site, I just find it difficult to use....? At the moment I would like to see the convicts that came to Australia please. Cheers Col _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thanks for this link, Sue. I will add it to the 'Useful Links' page. I have added the photos to the entries appropriate to this story: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I2048&ged=wilts-trees2 Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: SUE LOVELOCK via LOVELOCK <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: 26 October 2018 13:37 To: Lovelock family history Cc: SUE LOVELOCK Hello Graham, No need to visit Broad Hinton. There is a photo on "Duncan and Mandy's website" at http://www.oodwooc.co.uk/ph_BrHint_gL.htm which clearly shows the date to be 1905 not 1925. I'll send you the photo separately if you still want it. I came across this website a few years ago when looking for something specific but there are likely to be several Wiltshire Lovelock graves on it and I haven't yet done a general search. Regards Sue I'd forgotten about this website until it popped into my head after reading your email. ----Original message---- From : lovelockgraham@hotmail.com Date : 26/10/2018 - 11:57 (GMTST) To : lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject : [LOVELOCK] Re: A mysterious George Lovelock You are very kind, Helen, to say that it's a little misleading. But thank you for identifying this man. I notice that he is one of the many men who appear on two memorials: the War Memorial at Wroughton, where his date of death agrees with the CWGC date, and the one at Broad Hinton, presumably a mention on his parents' tombstone, along with his brother and sister, where his date of death is given as 31 May 1916. We can only wonder at how that slight discrepancy came about. He is of course George Henry Stephen Lovelock from the Lyneham Line. I was interested to read the Wroughton entry which states that he was born in Broad Hinton (as we knew), enlisted in Swindon (which we might have guessed at) and was resident at Wroughton (which we did not know as in 1911 the family were still in Broad Hinton). One other thing I've spotted - apologies to Malcolm Lovelock and to Richard Moore - is a possible error in the website listing of Wiltshire MIs which states that George's sister Ruth Naomi died on 5 Jan 1925. Her death was registered in 1905 so is the error in the transcription or in the MI? If anyone is in Broad Hinton in the near future perhaps they could supply me with a photograph of the grave that I could add to the Webtrees entries - please do not try to send it to the Mailing List (as James recently reminded us not to do). Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Helen Norton <helmar@bigpond.net.au> Sent: 26 October 2018 10:59 To: 'Lovelock family history' Hi, This index is a little misleading. The entry is taken from https://www.roll-of-honour.com/Wiltshire/Wroughton.html George (Henry) Lovelock died 1st June 1916 in France. As the original entry has no age, the index has age 0, not sure where "mother " comes from, as its not on the original info. I can only assume it may have been published in a newspaper for it to be in an index from 2004 -2018. Maybe "mother" is the person who did the article? Helen -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 11:43 PM To: Lovelock mailing list Hello all, Hoping to keep a bit of Mailing List momentum going, here's a peculiar piece I stumbled across today. Ancestry.co.uk has what it refers to as the 'UK and Ireland, Obituary Index, 2004-2018'. For some reason one of the entries concerns George Lovelock who apparently died on 1 June 1916 before achieving one year of age. The entry states that his place of Residence was 'Swindon, Uk' and that his mother was Deana Bradshaw. The only other information is that the Newspaper from which the information is supposedly drawn is the 'War', which I have never heard of. Free BMD has no record of the birth or death of George, no record of the marriage of a Lovelock and Deana Bradshaw, and indeed no record of the birth of a Deana Bradshaw. Knowing how prone Ancestry information is to transcription errors I wondered if the lady in question might be Diana Bradshaw (not that this would explain the other missing Free BMD entries) but there were only 2 of those, in 1840 and 1911, so clearly neither could be the mother of George. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Graham

Good day, Col, Ah - a question I do know the answer to, for a change! Two ways: one is to go to the 'Search' facility in the drop-down menu from the 'Home' tab at the top of the page. If you enter the word convicts in the Search box the first option that comes up is the 'Crime and Punishment' page. Go to that and scroll down to just about halfway and there's the material you are after. The other way (if you know your way about the website, which I realise most do not in the way I do) is to go to 'General' in the drop-down menu from the 'Sources' tab at the top of the page and then to select 'Crime and Punishment' from the links that appear. You will find that each of the five convicts that we know went to Australia are linked to their entries in the appropriate Webtrees file, in case that is what you are really after. Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: colinbm1 colinbm1 <colinbm1@bigpond.com> Sent: 27 October 2018 01:44 To: Lovelock family history Subject: [LOVELOCK] Lovelock convicts to Australia Hi Graham I have had difficulties in using the family trees on the Lovelock site, I just find it difficult to use....? At the moment I would like to see the convicts that came to Australia please. Cheers Col

Hi Graham I have had difficulties in using the family trees on the Lovelock site, I just find it difficult to use....? At the moment I would like to see the convicts that came to Australia please. Cheers Col

Dear Graham and Colin, The starting point for Tasmanian BDMs (to 1900) is the 'Tasmanian Names Index' (https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/) It also includes the convict index and a number of other records. Is there anything I can help with? Graham, did you get the information about Ivy Crowe which I sent on Wednesday? Kind regards, Dianne -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, 26 October 2018 10:11 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Website Links That's the one, Col, although I originally got to it through: https://www.justice.tas.gov.au/bdm/researching-family-trees Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: colinbm1 colinbm1 <colinbm1@bigpond.com> Sent: 26 October 2018 11:40 To: Lovelock family history Hi Graham Is this the online site that you use for Tasmania BDM etc ? https://libraries.tas.gov.au/family-history/Pages/Birth-Death-Marriage.aspx The first section " What is online? " has 6 suggestions for searching online. https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/names is a bit difficult, but once you learn its idiosyncrasies, it becomes a bit easier. Cheers Col [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-anima ted-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_s ource=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=li nk&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello Graham, No need to visit Broad Hinton. There is a photo on "Duncan and Mandy's website" at http://www.oodwooc.co.uk/ph_BrHint_gL.htm which clearly shows the date to be 1905 not 1925. I'll send you the photo separately if you still want it. I came across this website a few years ago when looking for something specific but there are likely to be several Wiltshire Lovelock graves on it and I haven't yet done a general search. Regards Sue I'd forgotten about this website until it popped into my head after reading your email. ----Original message---- From : lovelockgraham@hotmail.com Date : 26/10/2018 - 11:57 (GMTST) To : lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject : [LOVELOCK] Re: A mysterious George Lovelock You are very kind, Helen, to say that it's a little misleading. But thank you for identifying this man. I notice that he is one of the many men who appear on two memorials: the War Memorial at Wroughton, where his date of death agrees with the CWGC date, and the one at Broad Hinton, presumably a mention on his parents' tombstone, along with his brother and sister, where his date of death is given as 31 May 1916. We can only wonder at how that slight discrepancy came about. He is of course George Henry Stephen Lovelock from the Lyneham Line. I was interested to read the Wroughton entry which states that he was born in Broad Hinton (as we knew), enlisted in Swindon (which we might have guessed at) and was resident at Wroughton (which we did not know as in 1911 the family were still in Broad Hinton). One other thing I've spotted - apologies to Malcolm Lovelock and to Richard Moore - is a possible error in the website listing of Wiltshire MIs which states that George's sister Ruth Naomi died on 5 Jan 1925. Her death was registered in 1905 so is the error in the transcription or in the MI? If anyone is in Broad Hinton in the near future perhaps they could supply me with a photograph of the grave that I could add to the Webtrees entries - please do not try to send it to the Mailing List (as James recently reminded us not to do). Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Helen Norton <helmar@bigpond.net.au> Sent: 26 October 2018 10:59 To: 'Lovelock family history' Hi, This index is a little misleading. The entry is taken from https://www.roll-of-honour.com/Wiltshire/Wroughton.html George (Henry) Lovelock died 1st June 1916 in France. As the original entry has no age, the index has age 0, not sure where "mother " comes from, as its not on the original info. I can only assume it may have been published in a newspaper for it to be in an index from 2004 -2018. Maybe "mother" is the person who did the article? Helen -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 11:43 PM To: Lovelock mailing list Hello all, Hoping to keep a bit of Mailing List momentum going, here's a peculiar piece I stumbled across today. Ancestry.co.uk has what it refers to as the 'UK and Ireland, Obituary Index, 2004-2018'. For some reason one of the entries concerns George Lovelock who apparently died on 1 June 1916 before achieving one year of age. The entry states that his place of Residence was 'Swindon, Uk' and that his mother was Deana Bradshaw. The only other information is that the Newspaper from which the information is supposedly drawn is the 'War', which I have never heard of. Free BMD has no record of the birth or death of George, no record of the marriage of a Lovelock and Deana Bradshaw, and indeed no record of the birth of a Deana Bradshaw. Knowing how prone Ancestry information is to transcription errors I wondered if the lady in question might be Diana Bradshaw (not that this would explain the other missing Free BMD entries) but there were only 2 of those, in 1840 and 1911, so clearly neither could be the mother of George. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Graham [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

That's the one, Col, although I originally got to it through: https://www.justice.tas.gov.au/bdm/researching-family-trees Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: colinbm1 colinbm1 <colinbm1@bigpond.com> Sent: 26 October 2018 11:40 To: Lovelock family history Hi Graham Is this the online site that you use for Tasmania BDM etc ? https://libraries.tas.gov.au/family-history/Pages/Birth-Death-Marriage.aspx The first section " What is online? " has 6 suggestions for searching online. https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/names is a bit difficult, but once you learn its idiosyncrasies, it becomes a bit easier. Cheers Col [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>

You are very kind, Helen, to say that it's a little misleading. But thank you for identifying this man. I notice that he is one of the many men who appear on two memorials: the War Memorial at Wroughton, where his date of death agrees with the CWGC date, and the one at Broad Hinton, presumably a mention on his parents' tombstone, along with his brother and sister, where his date of death is given as 31 May 1916. We can only wonder at how that slight discrepancy came about. He is of course George Henry Stephen Lovelock from the Lyneham Line. I was interested to read the Wroughton entry which states that he was born in Broad Hinton (as we knew), enlisted in Swindon (which we might have guessed at) and was resident at Wroughton (which we did not know as in 1911 the family were still in Broad Hinton). One other thing I've spotted - apologies to Malcolm Lovelock and to Richard Moore - is a possible error in the website listing of Wiltshire MIs which states that George's sister Ruth Naomi died on 5 Jan 1925. Her death was registered in 1905 so is the error in the transcription or in the MI? If anyone is in Broad Hinton in the near future perhaps they could supply me with a photograph of the grave that I could add to the Webtrees entries - please do not try to send it to the Mailing List (as James recently reminded us not to do). Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Helen Norton <helmar@bigpond.net.au> Sent: 26 October 2018 10:59 To: 'Lovelock family history' Hi, This index is a little misleading. The entry is taken from https://www.roll-of-honour.com/Wiltshire/Wroughton.html George (Henry) Lovelock died 1st June 1916 in France. As the original entry has no age, the index has age 0, not sure where "mother " comes from, as its not on the original info. I can only assume it may have been published in a newspaper for it to be in an index from 2004 -2018. Maybe "mother" is the person who did the article? Helen -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 11:43 PM To: Lovelock mailing list Hello all, Hoping to keep a bit of Mailing List momentum going, here's a peculiar piece I stumbled across today. Ancestry.co.uk has what it refers to as the 'UK and Ireland, Obituary Index, 2004-2018'. For some reason one of the entries concerns George Lovelock who apparently died on 1 June 1916 before achieving one year of age. The entry states that his place of Residence was 'Swindon, Uk' and that his mother was Deana Bradshaw. The only other information is that the Newspaper from which the information is supposedly drawn is the 'War', which I have never heard of. Free BMD has no record of the birth or death of George, no record of the marriage of a Lovelock and Deana Bradshaw, and indeed no record of the birth of a Deana Bradshaw. Knowing how prone Ancestry information is to transcription errors I wondered if the lady in question might be Diana Bradshaw (not that this would explain the other missing Free BMD entries) but there were only 2 of those, in 1840 and 1911, so clearly neither could be the mother of George. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Graham [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>

Hi Graham Is this the online site that you use for Tasmania BDM etc ? https://libraries.tas.gov.au/family-history/Pages/Birth-Death-Marriage.aspx The first section " What is online? " has 6 suggestions for searching online. https://librariestas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/names is a bit difficult, but once you learn its idiosyncrasies, it becomes a bit easier. Cheers Col

Hi, This index is a little misleading. The entry is taken from https://www.roll-of-honour.com/Wiltshire/Wroughton.html George (Henry) Lovelock died 1st June 1916 in France. As the original entry has no age, the index has age 0, not sure where "mother " comes from, as its not on the original info. I can only assume it may have been published in a newspaper for it to be in an index from 2004 -2018. Maybe "mother" is the person who did the article? Helen -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 11:43 PM To: Lovelock mailing list Subject: [LOVELOCK] A mysterious George Lovelock Hello all, Hoping to keep a bit of Mailing List momentum going, here's a peculiar piece I stumbled across today. Ancestry.co.uk has what it refers to as the 'UK and Ireland, Obituary Index, 2004-2018'. For some reason one of the entries concerns George Lovelock who apparently died on 1 June 1916 before achieving one year of age. The entry states that his place of Residence was 'Swindon, Uk' and that his mother was Deana Bradshaw. The only other information is that the Newspaper from which the information is supposedly drawn is the 'War', which I have never heard of. Free BMD has no record of the birth or death of George, no record of the marriage of a Lovelock and Deana Bradshaw, and indeed no record of the birth of a Deana Bradshaw. Knowing how prone Ancestry information is to transcription errors I wondered if the lady in question might be Diana Bradshaw (not that this would explain the other missing Free BMD entries) but there were only 2 of those, in 1840 and 1911, so clearly neither could be the mother of George. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello all, Hoping to keep a bit of Mailing List momentum going, here's a peculiar piece I stumbled across today. Ancestry.co.uk has what it refers to as the 'UK and Ireland, Obituary Index, 2004-2018'. For some reason one of the entries concerns George Lovelock who apparently died on 1 June 1916 before achieving one year of age. The entry states that his place of Residence was 'Swindon, Uk' and that his mother was Deana Bradshaw. The only other information is that the Newspaper from which the information is supposedly drawn is the 'War', which I have never heard of. Free BMD has no record of the birth or death of George, no record of the marriage of a Lovelock and Deana Bradshaw, and indeed no record of the birth of a Deana Bradshaw. Knowing how prone Ancestry information is to transcription errors I wondered if the lady in question might be Diana Bradshaw (not that this would explain the other missing Free BMD entries) but there were only 2 of those, in 1840 and 1911, so clearly neither could be the mother of George. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Graham

Thank you so very much Graham! It's very nice to be in contact with you as well. I so appreciate all of your hard work and those of all the others who assist on the Lovelock line (however it is spelled). It will be so nice to add Frederick Charles and Rose's children to my tree. As we all know, it is SO EXCITING to find new ancestors or extended lines for our trees! It would also be wonderful to know if there is anyone out there who descends from this line!!! I do hope we hear from some descendants of Frederick Charles and Rose!! Many thanks again! Charlotte Huggins On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 9:08 AM Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> wrote: > Dear Charlotte, and all, > > > Further news on the Frederick and Rose front. > > > Because Frederick's marriage entry is in the name of LOVLOCK a search for > Lovelock/Jackson marriages way back last year only identified one, of a > couple in the Lyneham Line. This led me, despite some contradictory > evidence, to make certain additions to the Lyneham Line which are now > revealed to be completely misplaced. I have now made appropriate amendments > to both the Lyneham Line and the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfiedl Tree. > > > The important result of the amendments is that Frederick and Rose are now > shown to have had two other children - Leonard Frederick Charles in 1907 > and Irene Lilian in 1909. Both married, and all of the details are > accessible at : > > > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I3992&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > My humble apologies for dropping this particular clanger. If I have still > missed any salient points perhaps they will be drawn to my attention. > > Regards, > > Graham > ________________________________ > From: Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> > Sent: 23 October 2018 17:08 > To: Lovelock family history > Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Re: Frederick and Rose > > > Ah, yes, Charlotte, I do recall this story now. Lovely to hear from you > again. > > > Your information has necessitated a few adjustments to the Webtrees file, > but I think it's now in order. > > > Still no sign of Frederick and Rose in 1911, as far as I can see, but at > least I can see why I missed their marriage - Frederick's surname is > recorded as LOVLOCK. The witnesses to the marriage were Rose's father John > and sister Lily Amelia, both girls being Wiltshire-born in Westbury. I > haven't been able to find them in any Census before 1911 though, although > (recorded as Lillian) Lily can be found in 1911. > > > Lily had married a Joseph Steel in 1908, in the same church as Frederick > and Rose, and Frederick (signing himself Fred Charles Lovelock) was one of > the witnesses. > > > Much more to the point, Frederick and Rose had a son and a daughter and a > total of 5 grandchildren. Details at: > > > > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I3992&ged=ropley-tidcombe > > > Regards, > > > Graham > > > ________________________________ > From: Charlotte Huggins <cahuggins55@gmail.com> > Sent: 22 October 2018 21:47 > To: lovelock@rootsweb.com > Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Frederick and Rose > > Hello Graham: > > It's Charlotte Huggins here from the USA. I believe I have the answers you > need for this question. Sorry to to have been so long in answering you on > this puzzle. > > Frederick Charles Lovelock was born to my unmarried Great Grandmother > Elizabeth Ann Lovelock on 22 March 1883 in Canning Town, West Ham, Essex. > The birth register lists that he was born on the 22nd March 1883 and > baptised on 11 November 1883. The father's name is left blank. > > My GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock married George Saunders on 9 November > 1884 in West Ham. The reason you have been unable to find Frederick > Charles on any Census returns is because after Elizabeth Ann married George > Saunders, Frederick Charles was listed as Frederick Charles Saunders. He > is definitely listed on the Censuses with his Mother and Step Father, > however they list him as "Son" rather than "Step-son" to George Saunders. > > Frederick Charles Lovelock and Rose Ellen Jackson were married on 8 July > 1905 in Wembley, Middlesex at St. John the Evangelist. Frederick Charles > is listed as a Groom, age 22, living in Roxeth. Again his father's name is > blank. Rose Ellen is listed as a spinster, no occupation, age 21 living in > Wembly. Her father's name is listed as John Jackson, labourer. There is > also a document listing that Banns were read as appropriate on June 11, 18 > and 25, 1905. > > I don't have any children listed for them, but that doesn't mean they > didn't have any. > > As a sad side note -- my GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders deserted > the family (8 children not including Frederick), leaving them all with her > husband before his death early in 1906. I speculate that she was in love > with someone else and she also may have known that George Saunders was very > ill. George Saunders died on 29 March 1906 in Hendon of an enlarged liver > and had been an alcoholic. All indications were he was a kind and caring > father to his children. > > Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders re-married an Alfred Titus Lander on 4 June > 1906 in Willesden, Middlesex at St. Matthew's Church. She may have waited > until George Saunders died to re-marry, but she was definitely pregnant > with Titus' child before then. Alfred and Elizabeth had three children -- > the first of which was listed in the October Quarter 1906 in Hendon. > > The 8 children were left without parents. Frederick Charles' half brother > signed my Grandad and two of his brothers over to Barnardo's homes allowing > them to be sent to Canada as farm workers. The younger children were in > the Church of England babies homes for a time, and then they went into > service as Mother's helpers. A couple of them came over to this side of > the pond -- one sister lived her life in Oregon, USA, and another one lived > in British Columbia Canada where my Grandad found her and lived his life in > British Columbia as well. > > In 1958 after my sister was born my Grandad went to England to see if he > could track down any family members, but was told the records had not > survived. However he found Frederick Charles and showed up on his doorstep > unexpectedly. They spent some time together and evidently it was amicable. > > Most if not all of what I've listed above is in the Lovelock files, but if > you need anything further or have any questions please don't hesitate to > ask. > > Very best regards Graham!! > Charlotte Huggins > > > > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:16 AM Graham Lovelock < > lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > I do not believe we have tackled this one before, but apologies if my > > memory fails me. > > > A household at 7 Highmead Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex in 1939 comprised > > of Frederick C Lovelock, born 23 Mar 1883, and Rose E Lovelock, born 2 > Mar > > 1884. Both were said to be married, and I assume to each other, although > > that is not necessarily so of course. > > > > Frederick Charles Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1973, in the Hendon RD, the > > entry including his date of birth of 23 Mar 1883. Hendon RD includes > > Wembley. > > > > As it happens, another Frederick Charles Lovelock had died in the > previous > > quarter, in the Devizes RD (in Wiltshire of course), the entry giving his > > date of birth as 25 Mar 1901. > > > > Nothing inconsistent in those two entries, and so we now go to the > GOV.UK > > 'Find a will' website where there is only one entry for a Frederick > Charles > > in 1973 and the date of death quoted is 23 Mar 1973. So far so good; > > however the address quoted is 13 Hawthorne Grove, London, NW9. So far as > I > > can determine Hawthorne Grove, which still exists, is in the Hendon RD, > and > > some 60 to 70 miles distant, at least, from Devizes. Since I understand > > that deaths are registered in the quarter in which they occur and in the > > District where they take place and not in the District of residence it > > looks as though a significant mistake has been perpetrated in the probate > > records. There are two possibilities: that the probate entry should have > a > > date of death in the Apr-Jun quarter and not in March, or the entry has > the > > wrong address and should have one in Wiltshire. Neither seems very > likely, > > but the facts are the facts. > > > > Let us now turn our attention to the lady in the 1939 Register entry. > Rose > > Ellen Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1976 in Kensington RD, the entry > including > > her date of birth of 2 Mar 1884. The probate record gives the date of > death > > as 8 Jun 1976, but quotes her address as 24 Leigh Court, Byron Hill Road, > > Harrow on the Hill, Middlesex, which is most certainly not in the > > Kensington RD. I thought at first that Rose died in a hospital in > > Kensington RD, but in such cases that is normally part of the probate > entry. > > > > To further add to the mysteries I can find no record of the marriage of > > Frederick and Rose. > > > > And, piling it on now, there seems to be no record of Frederick in any of > > the three Census Returns which should have included him, and he does not > > appear in any Military records that I have been able to search. > > > > If they were married before 1911 Rose does not appear as Rose Lovelock in > > that Census Return. > > > > There were no other Lovelocks at that address in 1939, so no potential > > children to track down, and the couple were very probably too old to have > > any children after the Register was compiled. > > > > Any other information or ideas anyone? > > > > Regards, > > > > Graham > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Dear Charlotte, and all, Further news on the Frederick and Rose front. Because Frederick's marriage entry is in the name of LOVLOCK a search for Lovelock/Jackson marriages way back last year only identified one, of a couple in the Lyneham Line. This led me, despite some contradictory evidence, to make certain additions to the Lyneham Line which are now revealed to be completely misplaced. I have now made appropriate amendments to both the Lyneham Line and the Ropley, Crondall and Dogmersfiedl Tree. The important result of the amendments is that Frederick and Rose are now shown to have had two other children - Leonard Frederick Charles in 1907 and Irene Lilian in 1909. Both married, and all of the details are accessible at : http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I3992&ged=ropley-tidcombe My humble apologies for dropping this particular clanger. If I have still missed any salient points perhaps they will be drawn to my attention. Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> Sent: 23 October 2018 17:08 To: Lovelock family history Subject: Re: [LOVELOCK] Re: Frederick and Rose Ah, yes, Charlotte, I do recall this story now. Lovely to hear from you again. Your information has necessitated a few adjustments to the Webtrees file, but I think it's now in order. Still no sign of Frederick and Rose in 1911, as far as I can see, but at least I can see why I missed their marriage - Frederick's surname is recorded as LOVLOCK. The witnesses to the marriage were Rose's father John and sister Lily Amelia, both girls being Wiltshire-born in Westbury. I haven't been able to find them in any Census before 1911 though, although (recorded as Lillian) Lily can be found in 1911. Lily had married a Joseph Steel in 1908, in the same church as Frederick and Rose, and Frederick (signing himself Fred Charles Lovelock) was one of the witnesses. Much more to the point, Frederick and Rose had a son and a daughter and a total of 5 grandchildren. Details at: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I3992&ged=ropley-tidcombe Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Charlotte Huggins <cahuggins55@gmail.com> Sent: 22 October 2018 21:47 To: lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Frederick and Rose Hello Graham: It's Charlotte Huggins here from the USA. I believe I have the answers you need for this question. Sorry to to have been so long in answering you on this puzzle. Frederick Charles Lovelock was born to my unmarried Great Grandmother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock on 22 March 1883 in Canning Town, West Ham, Essex. The birth register lists that he was born on the 22nd March 1883 and baptised on 11 November 1883. The father's name is left blank. My GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock married George Saunders on 9 November 1884 in West Ham. The reason you have been unable to find Frederick Charles on any Census returns is because after Elizabeth Ann married George Saunders, Frederick Charles was listed as Frederick Charles Saunders. He is definitely listed on the Censuses with his Mother and Step Father, however they list him as "Son" rather than "Step-son" to George Saunders. Frederick Charles Lovelock and Rose Ellen Jackson were married on 8 July 1905 in Wembley, Middlesex at St. John the Evangelist. Frederick Charles is listed as a Groom, age 22, living in Roxeth. Again his father's name is blank. Rose Ellen is listed as a spinster, no occupation, age 21 living in Wembly. Her father's name is listed as John Jackson, labourer. There is also a document listing that Banns were read as appropriate on June 11, 18 and 25, 1905. I don't have any children listed for them, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any. As a sad side note -- my GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders deserted the family (8 children not including Frederick), leaving them all with her husband before his death early in 1906. I speculate that she was in love with someone else and she also may have known that George Saunders was very ill. George Saunders died on 29 March 1906 in Hendon of an enlarged liver and had been an alcoholic. All indications were he was a kind and caring father to his children. Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders re-married an Alfred Titus Lander on 4 June 1906 in Willesden, Middlesex at St. Matthew's Church. She may have waited until George Saunders died to re-marry, but she was definitely pregnant with Titus' child before then. Alfred and Elizabeth had three children -- the first of which was listed in the October Quarter 1906 in Hendon. The 8 children were left without parents. Frederick Charles' half brother signed my Grandad and two of his brothers over to Barnardo's homes allowing them to be sent to Canada as farm workers. The younger children were in the Church of England babies homes for a time, and then they went into service as Mother's helpers. A couple of them came over to this side of the pond -- one sister lived her life in Oregon, USA, and another one lived in British Columbia Canada where my Grandad found her and lived his life in British Columbia as well. In 1958 after my sister was born my Grandad went to England to see if he could track down any family members, but was told the records had not survived. However he found Frederick Charles and showed up on his doorstep unexpectedly. They spent some time together and evidently it was amicable. Most if not all of what I've listed above is in the Lovelock files, but if you need anything further or have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Very best regards Graham!! Charlotte Huggins On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:16 AM Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hello all, > > I do not believe we have tackled this one before, but apologies if my > memory fails me. > A household at 7 Highmead Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex in 1939 comprised > of Frederick C Lovelock, born 23 Mar 1883, and Rose E Lovelock, born 2 Mar > 1884. Both were said to be married, and I assume to each other, although > that is not necessarily so of course. > > Frederick Charles Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1973, in the Hendon RD, the > entry including his date of birth of 23 Mar 1883. Hendon RD includes > Wembley. > > As it happens, another Frederick Charles Lovelock had died in the previous > quarter, in the Devizes RD (in Wiltshire of course), the entry giving his > date of birth as 25 Mar 1901. > > Nothing inconsistent in those two entries, and so we now go to the GOV.UK > 'Find a will' website where there is only one entry for a Frederick Charles > in 1973 and the date of death quoted is 23 Mar 1973. So far so good; > however the address quoted is 13 Hawthorne Grove, London, NW9. So far as I > can determine Hawthorne Grove, which still exists, is in the Hendon RD, and > some 60 to 70 miles distant, at least, from Devizes. Since I understand > that deaths are registered in the quarter in which they occur and in the > District where they take place and not in the District of residence it > looks as though a significant mistake has been perpetrated in the probate > records. There are two possibilities: that the probate entry should have a > date of death in the Apr-Jun quarter and not in March, or the entry has the > wrong address and should have one in Wiltshire. Neither seems very likely, > but the facts are the facts. > > Let us now turn our attention to the lady in the 1939 Register entry. Rose > Ellen Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1976 in Kensington RD, the entry including > her date of birth of 2 Mar 1884. The probate record gives the date of death > as 8 Jun 1976, but quotes her address as 24 Leigh Court, Byron Hill Road, > Harrow on the Hill, Middlesex, which is most certainly not in the > Kensington RD. I thought at first that Rose died in a hospital in > Kensington RD, but in such cases that is normally part of the probate entry. > > To further add to the mysteries I can find no record of the marriage of > Frederick and Rose. > > And, piling it on now, there seems to be no record of Frederick in any of > the three Census Returns which should have included him, and he does not > appear in any Military records that I have been able to search. > > If they were married before 1911 Rose does not appear as Rose Lovelock in > that Census Return. > > There were no other Lovelocks at that address in 1939, so no potential > children to track down, and the couple were very probably too old to have > any children after the Register was compiled. > > Any other information or ideas anyone? > > Regards, > > Graham

Ah, yes, Charlotte, I do recall this story now. Lovely to hear from you again. Your information has necessitated a few adjustments to the Webtrees file, but I think it's now in order. Still no sign of Frederick and Rose in 1911, as far as I can see, but at least I can see why I missed their marriage - Frederick's surname is recorded as LOVLOCK. The witnesses to the marriage were Rose's father John and sister Lily Amelia, both girls being Wiltshire-born in Westbury. I haven't been able to find them in any Census before 1911 though, although (recorded as Lillian) Lily can be found in 1911. Lily had married a Joseph Steel in 1908, in the same church as Frederick and Rose, and Frederick (signing himself Fred Charles Lovelock) was one of the witnesses. Much more to the point, Frederick and Rose had a son and a daughter and a total of 5 grandchildren. Details at: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/individual.php?pid=I3992&ged=ropley-tidcombe Regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Charlotte Huggins <cahuggins55@gmail.com> Sent: 22 October 2018 21:47 To: lovelock@rootsweb.com Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: Frederick and Rose Hello Graham: It's Charlotte Huggins here from the USA. I believe I have the answers you need for this question. Sorry to to have been so long in answering you on this puzzle. Frederick Charles Lovelock was born to my unmarried Great Grandmother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock on 22 March 1883 in Canning Town, West Ham, Essex. The birth register lists that he was born on the 22nd March 1883 and baptised on 11 November 1883. The father's name is left blank. My GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock married George Saunders on 9 November 1884 in West Ham. The reason you have been unable to find Frederick Charles on any Census returns is because after Elizabeth Ann married George Saunders, Frederick Charles was listed as Frederick Charles Saunders. He is definitely listed on the Censuses with his Mother and Step Father, however they list him as "Son" rather than "Step-son" to George Saunders. Frederick Charles Lovelock and Rose Ellen Jackson were married on 8 July 1905 in Wembley, Middlesex at St. John the Evangelist. Frederick Charles is listed as a Groom, age 22, living in Roxeth. Again his father's name is blank. Rose Ellen is listed as a spinster, no occupation, age 21 living in Wembly. Her father's name is listed as John Jackson, labourer. There is also a document listing that Banns were read as appropriate on June 11, 18 and 25, 1905. I don't have any children listed for them, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any. As a sad side note -- my GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders deserted the family (8 children not including Frederick), leaving them all with her husband before his death early in 1906. I speculate that she was in love with someone else and she also may have known that George Saunders was very ill. George Saunders died on 29 March 1906 in Hendon of an enlarged liver and had been an alcoholic. All indications were he was a kind and caring father to his children. Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders re-married an Alfred Titus Lander on 4 June 1906 in Willesden, Middlesex at St. Matthew's Church. She may have waited until George Saunders died to re-marry, but she was definitely pregnant with Titus' child before then. Alfred and Elizabeth had three children -- the first of which was listed in the October Quarter 1906 in Hendon. The 8 children were left without parents. Frederick Charles' half brother signed my Grandad and two of his brothers over to Barnardo's homes allowing them to be sent to Canada as farm workers. The younger children were in the Church of England babies homes for a time, and then they went into service as Mother's helpers. A couple of them came over to this side of the pond -- one sister lived her life in Oregon, USA, and another one lived in British Columbia Canada where my Grandad found her and lived his life in British Columbia as well. In 1958 after my sister was born my Grandad went to England to see if he could track down any family members, but was told the records had not survived. However he found Frederick Charles and showed up on his doorstep unexpectedly. They spent some time together and evidently it was amicable. Most if not all of what I've listed above is in the Lovelock files, but if you need anything further or have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Very best regards Graham!! Charlotte Huggins On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:16 AM Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hello all, > > > I do not believe we have tackled this one before, but apologies if my > memory fails me. > > > A household at 7 Highmead Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex in 1939 comprised > of Frederick C Lovelock, born 23 Mar 1883, and Rose E Lovelock, born 2 Mar > 1884. Both were said to be married, and I assume to each other, although > that is not necessarily so of course. > > > Frederick Charles Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1973, in the Hendon RD, the > entry including his date of birth of 23 Mar 1883. Hendon RD includes > Wembley. > > > As it happens, another Frederick Charles Lovelock had died in the previous > quarter, in the Devizes RD (in Wiltshire of course), the entry giving his > date of birth as 25 Mar 1901. > > > Nothing inconsistent in those two entries, and so we now go to the GOV.UK > 'Find a will' website where there is only one entry for a Frederick Charles > in 1973 and the date of death quoted is 23 Mar 1973. So far so good; > however the address quoted is 13 Hawthorne Grove, London, NW9. So far as I > can determine Hawthorne Grove, which still exists, is in the Hendon RD, and > some 60 to 70 miles distant, at least, from Devizes. Since I understand > that deaths are registered in the quarter in which they occur and in the > District where they take place and not in the District of residence it > looks as though a significant mistake has been perpetrated in the probate > records. There are two possibilities: that the probate entry should have a > date of death in the Apr-Jun quarter and not in March, or the entry has the > wrong address and should have one in Wiltshire. Neither seems very likely, > but the facts are the facts. > > > Let us now turn our attention to the lady in the 1939 Register entry. Rose > Ellen Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1976 in Kensington RD, the entry including > her date of birth of 2 Mar 1884. The probate record gives the date of death > as 8 Jun 1976, but quotes her address as 24 Leigh Court, Byron Hill Road, > Harrow on the Hill, Middlesex, which is most certainly not in the > Kensington RD. I thought at first that Rose died in a hospital in > Kensington RD, but in such cases that is normally part of the probate entry. > > > To further add to the mysteries I can find no record of the marriage of > Frederick and Rose. > > > And, piling it on now, there seems to be no record of Frederick in any of > the three Census Returns which should have included him, and he does not > appear in any Military records that I have been able to search. > > > If they were married before 1911 Rose does not appear as Rose Lovelock in > that Census Return. > > > There were no other Lovelocks at that address in 1939, so no potential > children to track down, and the couple were very probably too old to have > any children after the Register was compiled. > > > Any other information or ideas anyone? > > > Regards, > > > Graham > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ Lovelock Family History<http://lovelock.free.fr/> lovelock.free.fr Lovelock Family History web site, overview. Purpose The purpose of this Web Site is to collect together family history information concerning families with the Lovelock name, and related versions of it. > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community > _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Thank-you Graham. I have corrected my notes. WALSH Eliza Death notice 19AUG1986 Death 100 late of Gundagai, formerly of Cootamundra Sydney Morning Herald 20AUG1986 NSW BDM: WALSH ELIZA 21816/1986 THOMAS MARY Kind regards, Dianne -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2018 9:17 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Thanks very much Dianne - nice to hear from you again after so long. A complicated family as you say, but I think I have now captured the correct facts and indicated where speculation is, for the moment at least, all that can be applied. Just one correction to the data you have - Mary Ann and Thomas's daughter Eliza did not die until 1986, having at some time married a Mr Walsh. I have this just recently from a granddaughter of Eliza's. Kind regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Dianne Snowden <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> Sent: 22 October 2018 09:27 To: 'Lovelock family history' Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Children of Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables had twelve children: Mary K Venables 1882-1957 Hannah Venables 1883-1970 Eliza M I Venables 1885-1915 Clarence Thomas O Venables 1887-1959 Edith May Venables 1889- Louisa Venables 1891 Florence Venables 1893 Ernest Venables 1896-1896 Norman Venables 1898-1902 Gerald C Venables 1900 Eric Ray Venables 1902-1902 Myra Venables 1903 -----Original Message----- From: colinbm1 colinbm1 [mailto:colinbm1@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2018 7:14 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Hi Dianne You attached the wrong children to.... Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: You have mistakenly attcahed his siblings....;-) Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Dianne Snowden" <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> To: "'Lovelock family history'" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 22 Oct, 2018 At 5:20 PM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Dear Graeme, I am a descendant of Richard Venables and Jane (Lovelock) through their son James Richard Venables (1875-1952). I cannot see a connection to Thomas Isaac Venables, convict (but then I haven't found Thomas Isaac Venables, convict) I did find Thomas Venables, convict, who arrived on the 'Hive' on 11 June 1834 and died on 13 June 1834. [Ref: State Records Authority of New South Wales; Kingswood, New South Wales, Australia; Title: Death Register, 1828-1879; Volume: 4/4549] I know some online family trees have 'Thomas Isaac Venables', son of Richard and Mary, but I haven't found evidence that his middle name was Isaac. He did not have a middle name when he married in 1840 and he died as 'Thomas Venables' in 1911. 1. Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Robert Lovelock married Jane Currie on 26 September 1847 at Maharatta, near Cooma NSW. Children: Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Lovelock had sixteen children, including twins Lucy Ann and William. Not all of the children survived infancy. The two daughters who married Venables were Jane (married Richard Venables) and Mary Ann (who married Thomas). Robert Lovelock b.1848 m. Bridget Baldwin Elizabeth Lovelock b.1850 m. Peter Cahill John Lovelock b.1852 m. Sarah Burgess Stephen Robert Lovelock b.1854 m. Sarah Crowe Jane Ann Lovelock b.1857 m. Richard Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Eliza Lovelock b.1859 d.1859 Abraham Lovelock b.1860 m. Caroline Ann Whitby Martha Lovelock b.1862 d.1884 George Lovelock b.1864 m. Mary Matilda Britt Mary Ann Lovelock b.1865 m. Thomas James Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Susan Lovelock b.1867 m. John Phillips & William Knight Diana Lovelock b.1869 d.1870 William Lovelock (twin) b.1871 m. Mabel Mary Campbell Lucy Ann Lovelock (twin) b.1871 d.1871 James Lovelock b.1872 d.1952 Edward ‘Ted’ Lovelock b.1874 m. Florence Ethel Ayling 2. Mary Ann Lovelock (1865-1906) Mary Ann Lovelock was born in 1865 in Cooma, NSW Mary Ann Lovelock married Thomas Venables in 1881 in Cooma. Thomas James Venables was born in 1853 at Wambrook (near Cooma), the son of Thomas Venables and Ellen née Thompson. Thomas Venables b. Cheshire England was the son of Richard, a base-born (illegitimate) child born in Cheshire in 1797. Mary Ann (Lovelock) Venables died in 1906 at Adaminaby NSW. Thomas Venables died on 18 July 1948 in Cooma. Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: James Ward b.1841 Margaret b.1842 Mary Ann b. 1844 Richard b.1847 John b. 1851 George b.1852 Thomas James b.1853 Ellen b.1853 William Herbert b.1855 Edward b.1857 Maria b.1859 Fanny Jane b.1863 I hope this helps. Please ask if you have any questions or if I can help further. It is a complicated family. Kind regards, Dianne Dr Dianne Snowden AM Adjunct Researcher, School of Humanities, University of Tasmania Member of the Australasian Association of Genealogists and Record Agents (AAGRA) Member Professional Historians’ Association -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 21 October 2018 10:56 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Better and better, Vicki. Terrific sleuthing! Spookily enough this all started because I was contacted separately by two ladies in Australia who are descended from a Thomas James Venables, two of whose sons married daughters of Robert Lovelock. After some digging around I have concluded that Thomas James is the son of Thomas Isaac Venables, who was transported in 1834 - about a year after Robert Lovelock. Although all the documentation may not be accessible, for whatever reasons, I think there are sufficient indications that several families in a fairly local area all had the same local beginnings, that is, a transportee marrying once he had his Ticket of Leave and begetting a substantial family, and that there were subsequently a number of interactions between the families. Unless anyone can show good reason why not I propose to add some Notes of a speculative nature to the Lambeth-Australia and New Zealand Tree to capture the Fragment outlined below and potentially expanded on by Vicki. Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Hello Graham: It's Charlotte Huggins here from the USA. I believe I have the answers you need for this question. Sorry to to have been so long in answering you on this puzzle. Frederick Charles Lovelock was born to my unmarried Great Grandmother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock on 22 March 1883 in Canning Town, West Ham, Essex. The birth register lists that he was born on the 22nd March 1883 and baptised on 11 November 1883. The father's name is left blank. My GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock married George Saunders on 9 November 1884 in West Ham. The reason you have been unable to find Frederick Charles on any Census returns is because after Elizabeth Ann married George Saunders, Frederick Charles was listed as Frederick Charles Saunders. He is definitely listed on the Censuses with his Mother and Step Father, however they list him as "Son" rather than "Step-son" to George Saunders. Frederick Charles Lovelock and Rose Ellen Jackson were married on 8 July 1905 in Wembley, Middlesex at St. John the Evangelist. Frederick Charles is listed as a Groom, age 22, living in Roxeth. Again his father's name is blank. Rose Ellen is listed as a spinster, no occupation, age 21 living in Wembly. Her father's name is listed as John Jackson, labourer. There is also a document listing that Banns were read as appropriate on June 11, 18 and 25, 1905. I don't have any children listed for them, but that doesn't mean they didn't have any. As a sad side note -- my GGMother Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders deserted the family (8 children not including Frederick), leaving them all with her husband before his death early in 1906. I speculate that she was in love with someone else and she also may have known that George Saunders was very ill. George Saunders died on 29 March 1906 in Hendon of an enlarged liver and had been an alcoholic. All indications were he was a kind and caring father to his children. Elizabeth Ann Lovelock Saunders re-married an Alfred Titus Lander on 4 June 1906 in Willesden, Middlesex at St. Matthew's Church. She may have waited until George Saunders died to re-marry, but she was definitely pregnant with Titus' child before then. Alfred and Elizabeth had three children -- the first of which was listed in the October Quarter 1906 in Hendon. The 8 children were left without parents. Frederick Charles' half brother signed my Grandad and two of his brothers over to Barnardo's homes allowing them to be sent to Canada as farm workers. The younger children were in the Church of England babies homes for a time, and then they went into service as Mother's helpers. A couple of them came over to this side of the pond -- one sister lived her life in Oregon, USA, and another one lived in British Columbia Canada where my Grandad found her and lived his life in British Columbia as well. In 1958 after my sister was born my Grandad went to England to see if he could track down any family members, but was told the records had not survived. However he found Frederick Charles and showed up on his doorstep unexpectedly. They spent some time together and evidently it was amicable. Most if not all of what I've listed above is in the Lovelock files, but if you need anything further or have any questions please don't hesitate to ask. Very best regards Graham!! Charlotte Huggins On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 11:16 AM Graham Lovelock <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hello all, > > > I do not believe we have tackled this one before, but apologies if my > memory fails me. > > > A household at 7 Highmead Crescent, Wembley, Middlesex in 1939 comprised > of Frederick C Lovelock, born 23 Mar 1883, and Rose E Lovelock, born 2 Mar > 1884. Both were said to be married, and I assume to each other, although > that is not necessarily so of course. > > > Frederick Charles Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1973, in the Hendon RD, the > entry including his date of birth of 23 Mar 1883. Hendon RD includes > Wembley. > > > As it happens, another Frederick Charles Lovelock had died in the previous > quarter, in the Devizes RD (in Wiltshire of course), the entry giving his > date of birth as 25 Mar 1901. > > > Nothing inconsistent in those two entries, and so we now go to the GOV.UK > 'Find a will' website where there is only one entry for a Frederick Charles > in 1973 and the date of death quoted is 23 Mar 1973. So far so good; > however the address quoted is 13 Hawthorne Grove, London, NW9. So far as I > can determine Hawthorne Grove, which still exists, is in the Hendon RD, and > some 60 to 70 miles distant, at least, from Devizes. Since I understand > that deaths are registered in the quarter in which they occur and in the > District where they take place and not in the District of residence it > looks as though a significant mistake has been perpetrated in the probate > records. There are two possibilities: that the probate entry should have a > date of death in the Apr-Jun quarter and not in March, or the entry has the > wrong address and should have one in Wiltshire. Neither seems very likely, > but the facts are the facts. > > > Let us now turn our attention to the lady in the 1939 Register entry. Rose > Ellen Lovelock died in Apr-Jun 1976 in Kensington RD, the entry including > her date of birth of 2 Mar 1884. The probate record gives the date of death > as 8 Jun 1976, but quotes her address as 24 Leigh Court, Byron Hill Road, > Harrow on the Hill, Middlesex, which is most certainly not in the > Kensington RD. I thought at first that Rose died in a hospital in > Kensington RD, but in such cases that is normally part of the probate entry. > > > To further add to the mysteries I can find no record of the marriage of > Frederick and Rose. > > > And, piling it on now, there seems to be no record of Frederick in any of > the three Census Returns which should have included him, and he does not > appear in any Military records that I have been able to search. > > > If they were married before 1911 Rose does not appear as Rose Lovelock in > that Census Return. > > > There were no other Lovelocks at that address in 1939, so no potential > children to track down, and the couple were very probably too old to have > any children after the Register was compiled. > > > Any other information or ideas anyone? > > > Regards, > > > Graham > > _______________________________________________ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://lovelock.free.fr/ > Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: > http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ > _______________________________________________ > Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref > Unsubscribe > https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com > Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: > https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 > Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog > RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb > community >

Thanks very much Dianne - nice to hear from you again after so long. A complicated family as you say, but I think I have now captured the correct facts and indicated where speculation is, for the moment at least, all that can be applied. Just one correction to the data you have - Mary Ann and Thomas's daughter Eliza did not die until 1986, having at some time married a Mr Walsh. I have this just recently from a granddaughter of Eliza's. Kind regards, Graham ________________________________ From: Dianne Snowden <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> Sent: 22 October 2018 09:27 To: 'Lovelock family history' Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Children of Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables had twelve children: Mary K Venables 1882-1957 Hannah Venables 1883-1970 Eliza M I Venables 1885-1915 Clarence Thomas O Venables 1887-1959 Edith May Venables 1889- Louisa Venables 1891 Florence Venables 1893 Ernest Venables 1896-1896 Norman Venables 1898-1902 Gerald C Venables 1900 Eric Ray Venables 1902-1902 Myra Venables 1903 -----Original Message----- From: colinbm1 colinbm1 [mailto:colinbm1@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2018 7:14 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Hi Dianne You attached the wrong children to.... Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: You have mistakenly attcahed his siblings....;-) Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Dianne Snowden" <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> To: "'Lovelock family history'" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 22 Oct, 2018 At 5:20 PM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Dear Graeme, I am a descendant of Richard Venables and Jane (Lovelock) through their son James Richard Venables (1875-1952). I cannot see a connection to Thomas Isaac Venables, convict (but then I haven't found Thomas Isaac Venables, convict) I did find Thomas Venables, convict, who arrived on the 'Hive' on 11 June 1834 and died on 13 June 1834. [Ref: State Records Authority of New South Wales; Kingswood, New South Wales, Australia; Title: Death Register, 1828-1879; Volume: 4/4549] I know some online family trees have 'Thomas Isaac Venables', son of Richard and Mary, but I haven't found evidence that his middle name was Isaac. He did not have a middle name when he married in 1840 and he died as 'Thomas Venables' in 1911. 1. Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Robert Lovelock married Jane Currie on 26 September 1847 at Maharatta, near Cooma NSW. Children: Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Lovelock had sixteen children, including twins Lucy Ann and William. Not all of the children survived infancy. The two daughters who married Venables were Jane (married Richard Venables) and Mary Ann (who married Thomas). Robert Lovelock b.1848 m. Bridget Baldwin Elizabeth Lovelock b.1850 m. Peter Cahill John Lovelock b.1852 m. Sarah Burgess Stephen Robert Lovelock b.1854 m. Sarah Crowe Jane Ann Lovelock b.1857 m. Richard Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Eliza Lovelock b.1859 d.1859 Abraham Lovelock b.1860 m. Caroline Ann Whitby Martha Lovelock b.1862 d.1884 George Lovelock b.1864 m. Mary Matilda Britt Mary Ann Lovelock b.1865 m. Thomas James Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Susan Lovelock b.1867 m. John Phillips & William Knight Diana Lovelock b.1869 d.1870 William Lovelock (twin) b.1871 m. Mabel Mary Campbell Lucy Ann Lovelock (twin) b.1871 d.1871 James Lovelock b.1872 d.1952 Edward ‘Ted’ Lovelock b.1874 m. Florence Ethel Ayling 2. Mary Ann Lovelock (1865-1906) Mary Ann Lovelock was born in 1865 in Cooma, NSW Mary Ann Lovelock married Thomas Venables in 1881 in Cooma. Thomas James Venables was born in 1853 at Wambrook (near Cooma), the son of Thomas Venables and Ellen née Thompson. Thomas Venables b. Cheshire England was the son of Richard, a base-born (illegitimate) child born in Cheshire in 1797. Mary Ann (Lovelock) Venables died in 1906 at Adaminaby NSW. Thomas Venables died on 18 July 1948 in Cooma. Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: James Ward b.1841 Margaret b.1842 Mary Ann b. 1844 Richard b.1847 John b. 1851 George b.1852 Thomas James b.1853 Ellen b.1853 William Herbert b.1855 Edward b.1857 Maria b.1859 Fanny Jane b.1863 I hope this helps. Please ask if you have any questions or if I can help further. It is a complicated family. Kind regards, Dianne Dr Dianne Snowden AM Adjunct Researcher, School of Humanities, University of Tasmania Member of the Australasian Association of Genealogists and Record Agents (AAGRA) Member Professional Historians’ Association -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 21 October 2018 10:56 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Better and better, Vicki. Terrific sleuthing! Spookily enough this all started because I was contacted separately by two ladies in Australia who are descended from a Thomas James Venables, two of whose sons married daughters of Robert Lovelock. After some digging around I have concluded that Thomas James is the son of Thomas Isaac Venables, who was transported in 1834 - about a year after Robert Lovelock. Although all the documentation may not be accessible, for whatever reasons, I think there are sufficient indications that several families in a fairly local area all had the same local beginnings, that is, a transportee marrying once he had his Ticket of Leave and begetting a substantial family, and that there were subsequently a number of interactions between the families. Unless anyone can show good reason why not I propose to add some Notes of a speculative nature to the Lambeth-Australia and New Zealand Tree to capture the Fragment outlined below and potentially expanded on by Vicki. Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

A bit of a long stretch Vicki.....? Not really the same area, a few hundred kilometers. You would need to prove who this John Lovelock is first. This John, Janet & William just seem to disappear....? Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Vicki Houlbrooke" <vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz> To: "Lovelock family history" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 22 Oct, 2018 At 8:34 AM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Found another couple of pieces of information. A marriage between John LOVELOCK and Janet WILSON in 1848 in Presbyterian Church in Bathurst or Sydney, NSW. (I could find only the one birth registration for John & Janet LOVELOCK) Robert LOVELOCK (1814-1875 Lambeth tree) who lived in the same area, had a younger brother named John b.1818, with no further information. So, wondering if William Henry LOVELOCK might be the nephew of Robert & Jane LOVELOCK. Vicki On Mon, 22 Oct 2018 at 04:27, Vicki Houlbrooke <vicki@houlbrooke.co.nz> wrote: > Hi Graham > > Not sure I can help with where William Henry LOVELOCK came from, but > there > is a NSW birth in 1850 for a William LOVELOCK, father John, mother > Janet. > > Other information found - > > *lovelock.free.fr/gedcoms/lambeth-aust-nz-line.ged > <http://lovelock.free.fr/gedcoms/lambeth-aust-nz-line.ged>* says:- > > "There were other Lovelocks in the area, the descendants of William > Henry > Lovelock and Lucy Emma McVicker. They married 1881 at Carcoar and had > children in Wellington, Carcoar and Blayney. > > At this stage I have not been able to connect this William Henry to > Robert > and Jane Lovelock." > > This may be worth pursuing... > > > *Illawara Mercury Tue 5 Sep 1916* - an article about Lucy Emma's death > by > poison, William Henry was a fettler residing at Coledale. [ > trove.nla.gov.au] > > > *Several newspaper articles* about William Henry LOVELOCK toymaker, > breaking & entering, and receiving stolen goods in 1925. They > variously say > he was a man of 43 or 45, married with 8 children. [trove.nla.gov.au]. > Also theft from a timber yard in 1928. > > I suspect this is the first born son of William Henry & Lucy Emma, > born > about 1882. > > This person married Lily May Bayliss in 1913 at Wollongong and had > several > children > > Looks like - Norman J 1915 - 1915 and Albert S or Sydney A 1915-1915 > (twins?) > > - Patrick 1916-1916 > > - Ernest E C, William H, Percy J, Alma D M or Doris A M, Herbert, all > born > 1916 with sequential references (Quintuplets?) > > - George or George Joseph 1917-1967 > > In her obituary in *Sydney Morning Herald Sat 15 Jan 1949,* it says > Lily > was the relict of the late William Henry LOVELOCK and mother of > Edward, > Charles, William, Percy, Doris (Mrs R Kelly), Herbert, Sid, George & > Ronald. Also in the *Sydney Morning Herald Wed 14 Jul 1937* is the > funeral notice for the late William Henry LOVELOCK of 7 > Blackfriars-street, > Chippendale – going to Catholic Cemetery, Rookwood [trove.nla.gov.au] > > There are other court cases for a William Henry LOVELOCK in 1952 – > perhaps > the son of William Henry & Lily May. [trove.nla.gov.au] There is a > marriage between a William Henry LOVELOCK and Moira McCANN in 1947 in > Sydney. [NSW bdm] > > > The only other snippet of information is the marriage of Florence RER > LOVELOCK to John H PLANT in 1906 in Orange. One child found – Doris E > L > 1907-1908 at Carcoar. There is also the death for Florence Rubena ER > PLANT > in 1966 in Sydney, daughter of William Henry and Lucy. [NSW bdm] > > > Hope this helps > > Vicki Houlbrooke > > > > > On Sun, 21 Oct 2018 at 05:07, Graham Lovelock > <lovelockgraham@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> >> Looking through some of our Australian data, prompted by one of the >> recent additions, and with a bit of help from 'Find a Grave' I have >> managed >> to put the following fragment together. >> >> >> Can anyone shed any light on the origins of William Henry Lovelock? >> >> >> >> William Henry Lovelock >> >> + Lucy Emma McVicker b ?, d 1916, m 1881 >> >> Herbert Ernest Charles Lovelock b 1884, d 19 Jan 1957 >> >> + Esther Ann Sadler b 1886, d 11 Mar 1952, m 1908 >> >> Dorothy E Lovelock b 1908, d 1908 >> >> Wilga E Lovelock b 1910 >> >> + Henry J McCarroll m 1928 >> >> Alice G Lovelock b 1912 >> >> + Arthur J Moon m 1935 >> >> Leila F Lovelock b 1914 >> >> + William Burrell m 1935 >> >> Mona Eileen Emily Lovelock b 1916 >> >> + Bruce Shea m 1951 >> >> Aubrey Richard Charles Lovelock b 1919, d 15 Feb >> 1988 >> >> + Irene Emily Minnie Grimshaw b 22 Apr 1918, d 21 >> Dec >> 1997, m 1938 >> >> + Sarah May Fitzpatrick m 1953 >> >> Florence R E R Lovelock b 1886 >> >> Albert G C Lovelock b 1888 >> >> Gertrude F Lovelock b 1891 >> >> William H Lovelock b ?, d 1937 >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> Graham >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> http://lovelock.free.fr/ >> Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: >> http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref >> Unsubscribe >> https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com >> Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: >> https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 >> Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog >> RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal >> RootsWeb >> community >> > _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Children of Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas Venables had twelve children: Mary K Venables 1882-1957 Hannah Venables 1883-1970 Eliza M I Venables 1885-1915 Clarence Thomas O Venables 1887-1959 Edith May Venables 1889- Louisa Venables 1891 Florence Venables 1893 Ernest Venables 1896-1896 Norman Venables 1898-1902 Gerald C Venables 1900 Eric Ray Venables 1902-1902 Myra Venables 1903 -----Original Message----- From: colinbm1 colinbm1 [mailto:colinbm1@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2018 7:14 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Hi Dianne You attached the wrong children to.... Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: You have mistakenly attcahed his siblings....;-) Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Dianne Snowden" <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> To: "'Lovelock family history'" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 22 Oct, 2018 At 5:20 PM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Dear Graeme, I am a descendant of Richard Venables and Jane (Lovelock) through their son James Richard Venables (1875-1952). I cannot see a connection to Thomas Isaac Venables, convict (but then I haven't found Thomas Isaac Venables, convict) I did find Thomas Venables, convict, who arrived on the 'Hive' on 11 June 1834 and died on 13 June 1834. [Ref: State Records Authority of New South Wales; Kingswood, New South Wales, Australia; Title: Death Register, 1828-1879; Volume: 4/4549] I know some online family trees have 'Thomas Isaac Venables', son of Richard and Mary, but I haven't found evidence that his middle name was Isaac. He did not have a middle name when he married in 1840 and he died as 'Thomas Venables' in 1911. 1. Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Robert Lovelock married Jane Currie on 26 September 1847 at Maharatta, near Cooma NSW. Children: Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Lovelock had sixteen children, including twins Lucy Ann and William. Not all of the children survived infancy. The two daughters who married Venables were Jane (married Richard Venables) and Mary Ann (who married Thomas). Robert Lovelock b.1848 m. Bridget Baldwin Elizabeth Lovelock b.1850 m. Peter Cahill John Lovelock b.1852 m. Sarah Burgess Stephen Robert Lovelock b.1854 m. Sarah Crowe Jane Ann Lovelock b.1857 m. Richard Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Eliza Lovelock b.1859 d.1859 Abraham Lovelock b.1860 m. Caroline Ann Whitby Martha Lovelock b.1862 d.1884 George Lovelock b.1864 m. Mary Matilda Britt Mary Ann Lovelock b.1865 m. Thomas James Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Susan Lovelock b.1867 m. John Phillips & William Knight Diana Lovelock b.1869 d.1870 William Lovelock (twin) b.1871 m. Mabel Mary Campbell Lucy Ann Lovelock (twin) b.1871 d.1871 James Lovelock b.1872 d.1952 Edward ‘Ted’ Lovelock b.1874 m. Florence Ethel Ayling 2. Mary Ann Lovelock (1865-1906) Mary Ann Lovelock was born in 1865 in Cooma, NSW Mary Ann Lovelock married Thomas Venables in 1881 in Cooma. Thomas James Venables was born in 1853 at Wambrook (near Cooma), the son of Thomas Venables and Ellen née Thompson. Thomas Venables b. Cheshire England was the son of Richard, a base-born (illegitimate) child born in Cheshire in 1797. Mary Ann (Lovelock) Venables died in 1906 at Adaminaby NSW. Thomas Venables died on 18 July 1948 in Cooma. Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: James Ward b.1841 Margaret b.1842 Mary Ann b. 1844 Richard b.1847 John b. 1851 George b.1852 Thomas James b.1853 Ellen b.1853 William Herbert b.1855 Edward b.1857 Maria b.1859 Fanny Jane b.1863 I hope this helps. Please ask if you have any questions or if I can help further. It is a complicated family. Kind regards, Dianne Dr Dianne Snowden AM Adjunct Researcher, School of Humanities, University of Tasmania Member of the Australasian Association of Genealogists and Record Agents (AAGRA) Member Professional Historians’ Association -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 21 October 2018 10:56 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Better and better, Vicki. Terrific sleuthing! Spookily enough this all started because I was contacted separately by two ladies in Australia who are descended from a Thomas James Venables, two of whose sons married daughters of Robert Lovelock. After some digging around I have concluded that Thomas James is the son of Thomas Isaac Venables, who was transported in 1834 - about a year after Robert Lovelock. Although all the documentation may not be accessible, for whatever reasons, I think there are sufficient indications that several families in a fairly local area all had the same local beginnings, that is, a transportee marrying once he had his Ticket of Leave and begetting a substantial family, and that there were subsequently a number of interactions between the families. Unless anyone can show good reason why not I propose to add some Notes of a speculative nature to the Lambeth-Australia and New Zealand Tree to capture the Fragment outlined below and potentially expanded on by Vicki. Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community

Oops! I will recheck my notes. Dianne -----Original Message----- From: colinbm1 colinbm1 [mailto:colinbm1@bigpond.com] Sent: Monday, 22 October 2018 7:14 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Hi Dianne You attached the wrong children to.... Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: You have mistakenly attcahed his siblings....;-) Cheers Col ------ Original Message ------ From: "Dianne Snowden" <dsnowden@tassie.net.au> To: "'Lovelock family history'" <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, 22 Oct, 2018 At 5:20 PM Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Dear Graeme, I am a descendant of Richard Venables and Jane (Lovelock) through their son James Richard Venables (1875-1952). I cannot see a connection to Thomas Isaac Venables, convict (but then I haven't found Thomas Isaac Venables, convict) I did find Thomas Venables, convict, who arrived on the 'Hive' on 11 June 1834 and died on 13 June 1834. [Ref: State Records Authority of New South Wales; Kingswood, New South Wales, Australia; Title: Death Register, 1828-1879; Volume: 4/4549] I know some online family trees have 'Thomas Isaac Venables', son of Richard and Mary, but I haven't found evidence that his middle name was Isaac. He did not have a middle name when he married in 1840 and he died as 'Thomas Venables' in 1911. 1. Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Robert Lovelock married Jane Currie on 26 September 1847 at Maharatta, near Cooma NSW. Children: Robert Lovelock and Jane (Currie) Lovelock had sixteen children, including twins Lucy Ann and William. Not all of the children survived infancy. The two daughters who married Venables were Jane (married Richard Venables) and Mary Ann (who married Thomas). Robert Lovelock b.1848 m. Bridget Baldwin Elizabeth Lovelock b.1850 m. Peter Cahill John Lovelock b.1852 m. Sarah Burgess Stephen Robert Lovelock b.1854 m. Sarah Crowe Jane Ann Lovelock b.1857 m. Richard Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Eliza Lovelock b.1859 d.1859 Abraham Lovelock b.1860 m. Caroline Ann Whitby Martha Lovelock b.1862 d.1884 George Lovelock b.1864 m. Mary Matilda Britt Mary Ann Lovelock b.1865 m. Thomas James Venables * (son of Thomas, grandson of Richard) Susan Lovelock b.1867 m. John Phillips & William Knight Diana Lovelock b.1869 d.1870 William Lovelock (twin) b.1871 m. Mabel Mary Campbell Lucy Ann Lovelock (twin) b.1871 d.1871 James Lovelock b.1872 d.1952 Edward ‘Ted’ Lovelock b.1874 m. Florence Ethel Ayling 2. Mary Ann Lovelock (1865-1906) Mary Ann Lovelock was born in 1865 in Cooma, NSW Mary Ann Lovelock married Thomas Venables in 1881 in Cooma. Thomas James Venables was born in 1853 at Wambrook (near Cooma), the son of Thomas Venables and Ellen née Thompson. Thomas Venables b. Cheshire England was the son of Richard, a base-born (illegitimate) child born in Cheshire in 1797. Mary Ann (Lovelock) Venables died in 1906 at Adaminaby NSW. Thomas Venables died on 18 July 1948 in Cooma. Mary Ann (Lovelock) and Thomas James Venables had at least twelve children: James Ward b.1841 Margaret b.1842 Mary Ann b. 1844 Richard b.1847 John b. 1851 George b.1852 Thomas James b.1853 Ellen b.1853 William Herbert b.1855 Edward b.1857 Maria b.1859 Fanny Jane b.1863 I hope this helps. Please ask if you have any questions or if I can help further. It is a complicated family. Kind regards, Dianne Dr Dianne Snowden AM Adjunct Researcher, School of Humanities, University of Tasmania Member of the Australasian Association of Genealogists and Record Agents (AAGRA) Member Professional Historians’ Association -----Original Message----- From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:lovelockgraham@hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, 21 October 2018 10:56 PM To: Lovelock family history <lovelock@rootsweb.com> Subject: [LOVELOCK] Re: An Australian Fragment Better and better, Vicki. Terrific sleuthing! Spookily enough this all started because I was contacted separately by two ladies in Australia who are descended from a Thomas James Venables, two of whose sons married daughters of Robert Lovelock. After some digging around I have concluded that Thomas James is the son of Thomas Isaac Venables, who was transported in 1834 - about a year after Robert Lovelock. Although all the documentation may not be accessible, for whatever reasons, I think there are sufficient indications that several families in a fairly local area all had the same local beginnings, that is, a transportee marrying once he had his Ticket of Leave and begetting a substantial family, and that there were subsequently a number of interactions between the families. Unless anyone can show good reason why not I propose to add some Notes of a speculative nature to the Lambeth-Australia and New Zealand Tree to capture the Fragment outlined below and potentially expanded on by Vicki. Regards, Graham _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community _______________________________________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lovelock family history Web pages: http://lovelock.free.fr/ Browse Lovelock trees on the Webtrees portal: http://loveluck.net/LovelockTrees/ _______________________________________________ Email preferences: http://bit.ly/rootswebpref Unsubscribe https://lists.rootsweb.com/postorius/lists/lovelock@rootsweb.com Privacy Statement: https://ancstry.me/2JWBOdY Terms and Conditions: https://ancstry.me/2HDBym9 Rootsweb Blog: http://rootsweb.blog RootsWeb is funded and supported by Ancestry.com and our loyal RootsWeb community