John, sorry its taken me so long to respond to your message full of interesting source material (at least for the small number of listers interested in the Glamorgan Lovelucks!) We've already communciated off-list about my twin theory concerning Catherine & William b 1891 and I bow to the overwhelming evidence presented by Ron and yourself! Thanks for reminding me about the non-Glamorgan Lovelucks - maybe we need a Web page where we can collect together these Loveluck "strays". There are a couple of LovelUcks in the "Lyneham Line" on the LovelOck Web pages (now mis-named since it actually has its origins in Wroughton), which has a twig in Glamorgan, and clearly exhibits the LovelOck to LovelUck name change at a quite recent date. There are also the Tasmanian Lovelucks which trace their origins back to Henry Loveluck (1783-1867) of Marylebone (they can be found on the Lovelock Web site at: http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/fragments/misc-lovelock-trees.html#Tasmania Concerning the Maudlam and Margam Abbey graves, I have the Glam FHS transcritions of many of them on the LovelUck Web site under Records -> Monumental Inscritions. There are also photos of many of the gravestones, taken during our pilgrimage to Glamorgan about 3 years ago, when Allen Blethyn gave me a guided tour of the churchyards! However, in your note there were several that I did not have on my Web page, including the first one (David Jenkins and family, including Mary Izod Jenkins, née Loveluck) and also the Jenkin grave at Margam Abbey - I'll add these to the corresponding Web pages. Note also the GFHS mix-up concerning the gravestone of Sophia Wood! The GFHS transcription of grave A20 also contains an error - the date of death of John Thomas Loveluck is given as Jul 8 1919, whereas it should be Jul 8 1929, as is quite clear from the photo. I'll stop here for now and deal with the rest of your message later! James

Hello Ed I too am from the Shipton Moyne Lovelocks -via John's sister Sarah. Can't recall if we've been in touch before ? I agree we seem to be out on a limb at present . Never mind - no doubt we'll tie in in the end . Steve Tanner

I have noticed on the Wiltshire tree a marriage of Richard John LOVELOCK to Eliza (aka Elizabeth or Liza) Little at Clyffe Pypard in 1863. My ggGrandparents were John Lovelock (1812 -1874) of Shipton Moyne and Ann Little (1832 - 1868) of Clyffe Pypard. Ann was John' second wife. I believe that Ann had a sister Eliza b 1843 who could be the Elizabeth above. Does anyone have any details of the Little family of Clyffe Pypard? We descendants of the Shipton Moyne Lovelocks are not well represented on the list or website, but I'm sure we'll find the link to the other branches eventually. Ed --------------------------------- ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!

Hello all, Encouraged by Graham Lovelock I've made some more changes to the "Trees & Fragments" section on the Web site. The "Collected Fragments" had become somewhat unmanageable (in particular the notes explaining the relation to the original version) and contained redundant or duplicate material. So what I have done is to replace this by a page called "Misc. Trees" which contains trees and fragments which do not belong to the Wiltshire or Berkshire trees pages, together with some fragments which require further research before they can be ratified. However, for those who may be interested in the evolution of the different trees I have also added a page called "The Early Lovelock Fragments" (accessed from the "Overview" page) which includes essentially the original versions of the "Collected Lovelock Fragments" together with early versions of fragments for a number of Wiltshire parishes. I have also attempted to indicate how these early fragments are related to the current ones. If anyone has trees or fragments which they would like to contribute to the Miscellaneous Trees and Fragments page I would be more than happy to add them. My hope is that this will become a collection which evolves and perhaps we could eventually produce separate pages for established trees for other counties (Hampshire comes to mind for example). Let me know of you think this is (or is not) a good idea. Regards, James

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:17:07 +0200 James Loveluck <[email protected]> wrote: <snipped> > If anyone has trees or fragments which they would like to contribute > to the Miscellaneous Trees and Fragments page I would be more than > happy to add them. My hope is that this will become a collection > which evolves and perhaps we could eventually produce separate pages > for established trees for other counties (Hampshire comes to mind > for example). I will try to find time to sort out my Martin Lovelock tree which is based on the fact that Martin is an uncommon name among the Lovelocks and they all seem to be in the SE Berks/North Hampshire area with some diversions into London and Kent so I have assumed they are probably all related Elizabeth Lovelock baptised on 22 November 1696 - All Saints, Swallowfield to Martin & Anne Lovelock is one of my direct ancestors on my maternal grandmother's side of the family. Elizabeth married Jonathan Lewington in Swallowfield and had 10 children there but her great-grandchild had migrated to Eversley/Heckfield by the 1770s Martin & Ann had a son Martin and it is his descendants I have a very speculative tree for. It would be great to have someone else's comments on this fragment and I would love to be able to add parents for the first Martin I have > Let me know of you think this is (or is not) a good idea. seems a pretty good plan to me -- John Lewis, Debian GNU/Linux and GeneWeb genealogy software

Hello all, I've added to the "Lovelock Gathering" page a link to a scanned copy (provided by Graham) of the report on the Lovelocks Alive 2004 gathering from Family History Magazine (reproduced with permission). The copy isn't of very good quality, so if anyone has a better one (preferably jpeg or PDF format) I'd be very pleased to replace it! Regards, James

Dear Michelle, I have James born in Childrey Wantage. I think yours is probably right. All I know of Frederick John was that he was a drayman for a brewing company in Merton Surrey. How he ended up in Merton I dont know. He and his wife Eliza lived in Merton High Street. I am very friendly with Bobs sister Beryl and she told me about him and also sent pictures of him and his wife. He died tragically but I still cant help laughing about it. He was hit by a trolleybus in Ewell Rd Surbiton whilst walking in the road during the blackout and died in Surbiton Hospital of his injuries. Sorry but I know nothing of Berkshire at all so dont know where those places are. Perhaps some of the Lovelock Listers do. Sincerely Sian _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Michelle, it maybe me thats wrong. I picked a James in the 1851 census but he is 13 and born in Childrey with siblings Ann William George Jane and John. Cant find them in 1861 but in 1871 I have John and Harriet in Sparshot with Charles and Esther aged 14 and 19. I have been in contact with Charles Grandson. His daughter Alice was born in 1903 and her son is Ronald Sheppard. He thought we were the same family but maybe we are wrong. It was the only one I thought fitted but the age and place of birth are wrong although that can alter on each census in my experience with my side of the family. I am now having grave doubts what do you think Best wishes >From: michelle lovelock <[email protected]> >To: sian davies <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: Frederick John Lovelock >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:30:20 +0100 (BST) > >Hmmm, possible some of my tree is wrong then - I do have James and Jane nee >Bruid as Frederick's parents, but I had a James and Mary as James' parents. >This info came from trawling through the census returns for 1851 - all the >Lovelocks from census are on the Lovelock Family History website, >helpfully. >I could only find one James Lovelock aged 10, with parents James and Mary, >in Shaw, Berks. >I had James dob as circa 1839/40 as in the 1891 census he is recorded as >age 51 born Wantage, Berks. What had been bothering me was the conflicting >age in the 1871 census - Jane's age is correct as is the 7 month old >Frederick J, but James' is shown as only 22, which doesn't tie up with the >later census.. I thought it was likely human error as handwriting so >illegible. >Where did you get the info on James parents? Do you have a confirmed year >of birth for him? >Re: your uncle Bob, he contacted my father during his early research of >descendants of Frederick J, I think just through the telephone book! At the >time, he was having trouble finding descendants of Jean Searle who married >Stanley Lygo - if he hasn't tracked them down yet and is still doing his >tree, (I'm sure he has as this was a while ago) I had an e-mail from Dawn >Lygo, Jean's granddaughter, could put her in touch. >Bob used to forward the latest updated copy of his tree to my dad but we >haven't had one for a while now. >Thanks for your help >Michelle Lovelock > > >sian davies <[email protected]> wrote: >You seem to have got further back than me. I have Frederick Johns parents >James and Jane Bruid I think but the writing on the b/cert is difficult to >read and I have James parents John and Harriet. John was born 1808 or 9 in >Westcote Berks but I dont have his parents. Could you let me know. > >Uncle Bob has concentrated on going forward from FJ and I have tried to go >back without much success. > >I have had a copy of FJ birth cert from Uncle Bob I couldnt find his birth >anywhere > >Reg District is Malmsbury Sub District Malmsbury East in County of Wilts > >20th August 1870 in Chelworth (parish of Crudwell) Frederick John Boy > >Father James Lovelock Farm Labourer >Mother Jane Lovelock formally Bruid > >Informant was Mother on 27th September 1870 > >How did you get in touch with Uncle Bob. I knew FJs son Frederick William >really well, they were at our wedding. > >Best Wishes > >Sian > > > > >From: michelle lovelock > >To: sian davies > >Subject: Re: Frederick John Lovelock > >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 13:25:00 +0100 (BST) > > > >Sian, > >Thanks for getting in touch - yes, I am Danny's daughter, so a distant > >cousin of your own family. I have started researching my family line in >the > >last week or so, and used the tree that Robert Lovelock has researched as >a > >starting point, so already have most of the descendents of Frederick John > >Lovelock. What I am trying to do is go back as far as possible, and I > >wondered if you had any record of Frederick's parents? I have so far only > >looked at census returns for my info, and I have his parents as James and > >Jane, and 6 siblings, living in Wiltshire in 1871 and Bucks in 1891. I >have > >traced James father and grandfather (both in Berkshire) , so think I have > >our descendents back to 1738 so far.. but would like to confirm this with > >Frederick John's birth certificate. > >Is Robert Lovelock, (your uncle-in-law) still researching the family >line, > >and how far back has he gone? > >My tree is on the Genes Reunited site, haven't worked out how to download > >it yet (I'm somewhat computer illiterate I'm afraid!) but when I do I >will > >forward a copy. > >Thanks again for getting in touch, > >Michelle Lovelock > > > > > >sian davies wrote: > >Hello Michelle, > > > >I have been given your email address by Graham Lovelock as you appear to >be > >of the same line as my husband and children. I hope so. Graham says you > >are Danny's daughter. Is this your line? > > > >Frederick John Lovelock > > > >John(Jack) Edward Lovelock > > > >John Frederick Lovelock > > > >Danny Lovelock > > > >Michelle Lovelock > > > >If so you are my boys fourth cousin. Our line is > > > > > >Frederick John Lovelock > > > >Frederick William Lovelock (elder brother of John) > > > >Frederick Arthur John Lovelock > > > >Frederick John Arthur (Lovelock) Davies > > > >Gareth Ryan Aran and Iwan (Lovelock) Davies > > > > > >My husband changed his name 25 years ago when he broke with his father >for > >reasons I wont go into so we are Davies now. > > > >Best Wishes > > > > > >Sian Davies > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! > >http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Does your mail provider give you a FREE online calendar? Yahoo! does. > >Get Yahoo! Mail > >_________________________________________________________________ >Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > >--------------------------------- >Too much spam in your inbox? Yahoo! Mail gives you the best spam protection >for FREE! Get Yahoo!Mail _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

I wondered why the bapt of Jennet Powell ~1823 was not found in IGI. Well it's not under Powell, but Morgan - but if the name Morgan was unknown it would not be found!! IGI assumed that the parents were married. When I took my notes at PRO some 25 years ago I did not record that the baby was illeg - maybe it just did not say. As that was the only one I noted I don't know if the mother's maiden name was given if married. John Dixon

James, your twin theory re Catherine & Wm b 1891 is busted!! I've checked my original handwritten refs (left out of the BMD list). Catherine is 782 and WA is 775 - both of course 11a like all others! Twins would normally have the same ref!! or at worst be 1 page different. I have been going through my BMD doc adding refs to 1901 census etc in blue. So in due course I will send it to you, James to "edit". My old notes: My fleeting visit to Chisledon Wilts Ch yd 24-9-1983 (no photos): John Loveluck who departed this life March 21 1764 (?1794?) aged 67 about 4th grave on right up path from gate nearby graves were largely illegible, but names seem unrelated, King, Pearce, Crook. NOTE Graham's date for 1763 is presumably 1763/4 - but 21 March was the change over! John's age is 63 in Wilts BurI, 65 from Graham and 67 from the gravestone - but that was not in very good nick. Its been on the cards for 20 +years that this John may be the father of our John ~1739! We still don't seem to have connected the London Lovelucks (Henry etc). Also there is a Catherine Elizabeth Loveluck bur Lewisham 17-3-1841 age 23 (list on www). I have found the area in the ch yd where the grave is (was), but the stones/tombs are so poor. Next door the Register Office were unable to find her death cert making the excuse there were too many districts!! It took them 3 weeks even with the book number from a short birth cert of my Aunt Daisy b 1910 to get her birth & death certs. She lived just 1 day, but a photo survives. Her father was away in Oz! So I'll have to get the CEL death cert from Southport, but this may not give a clue where she came from! I'd tidied up the set of B&W photos I have of the Maudlam graves taken about 30 years ago (I think they were mine - some were underexposed - they were B&W so before 1971) and a couple from Margam Abbey, which came from Janet H (only one found at pres!). Do you have prints or notes of these James? I don't seem to have a doc listing the details either. FOUND THEM! So I've now made a Word doc from 1858 to ~1980 of the will index entries and the occasional extra detail where I've seen the will, but can't fine the later will summaries -yet - do you want these James or anyone else? They give more info than in my BMD doc, which James has in any case curtailed for his web site. IN LOVING MEMORY OF DAVID JENKINS chemist (late of Bridgend) dIED June 7TH 1908 age 61 "The memory of the just is blessed" also OF Thomas Loveluck Jenkins sON of aforesaid dIED 16TH Nov 1925 aged 50 also Ann Lillian Jenkins dau of above dIED Apr 2nd --- aged --- IN LOVING MEMORY OF John Andrew Jenkins (chemist) son of David & Mary Izod Jenkins dIED July 18TH 1959 aged 80 YEARS also Henry Stanley Jenkins dIED March 8TH 1968 aged 77? Other side another Gwe .Jenkins dau- cant read because of angle, some vis on next pic - adjacent. B69 Eliz John who also who died aged also of Thomas their son who died December 28 1873 aged ? years also of the above named JOHN LOVELUCK WHO DIED FEB 28TH 1885 AGE 69 YEARS ALSO OF THE ABOVE NAMED CATHERINE LOVELUCK WHO DIED FEB 4TH 1896 AGED 78 YEARS A19 ELLEN BOWEN DAUGHTER OF THOMAS AND SARAH LOVELUCK OF THIS PARISH BORN JANUARY 30TH 1859? DIED MARCH 13TH 1864 ALSO OF ELLEN ANN DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE BORN JUNE 19?TH 1864 DIED MAY 5TH 1865 ALSO OF THE ABOVE NAMED THOMAS LOVELUCK BORN AUGUST 29TH 1823 DIED DECEMBER 29TH 1876 ALSO OF JENNET MARIA DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE BORN JULY 28TH 1875 DIED JULY 1ST 1877 ALSO OF THE ABOVE NAMED SARAH LOVELUCK BORN JULY 17TH 1839 DIED FEB 17 1916 Notes of another adj grave Sofia Wood died Swansea 26 Jan 1885 aged 86 William Bowen late of March 8 .77 years B68 In Memory of ANN wife of WILLIAM LOVELUCK of Aberavon who died the 19th Jan 1845 Aged 33 Years Also WILLIAM their Son died in his Infancy Also of the above named WILLIAM LOVELUCK who died 26th June 1873 Aged 61 Years A20 In Affectionate Remembrance JOHN THOMAS THE BELOVED HUSBAND OF MARGARET ELIZABETH LOVELUCK WHO DIED JULY 8TH 1929 AGED 63 ALSO OF THE ABOVE NAMED MARGARET ELIZABETH LOVELUCK WHO DIED APRIL 15TH 1951 AGED 84 YEARS IN MEMORY OF WILLIAM LOVELUCK FARMER OF THIS WHO DIED THE 4TH DAY OF MAY 1857 AGED 74 YEARS ALSO OF JOHN SON OF THE ABOVE NAMED AND ISOD HIS WIFE WHO DIED IN HIS INFANCY ALSO OF THE ABOVE NAMED ISOD LOVELUCK WHO DIED THE *TH DAY OF MARCH 18*7 AGED *2 (1867 82) C6 photo taken ~1948 by Janet Hearle nee Loveluck at Margam Abbey," the oldest stone relating to the Loveluck family at that date in Margam then to be seen." IN MEMORY OF MARY THE WIFE OF EDWARD LOVELUCK OF WATERTOWN WHO DIED 26TH SEP 1833 AGED 35 YEARS 2 lines of Welsh ALSO OF THOMAS HOPKIN BROTHER OF THE ABOVE NAMED LATE OF PENTYDLA WHO DIED 17 JUNE 1881 AGED 79 YEARS one line of Welsh William Ernest son of David and Mary Izod Jenkins d May 1 1873 age 6 months also David Hubert Jenkins d May 8 1876 age 2 years and 6 months also David Arthur Penrhyn Jenkins d Dec 27 1881 age 5 months also Herbert Jenkins d Nov 13 1882 age 2 weeks I think there are a few more photos of gravestones somewhere which have Sarah (nee Loveluck) Eckley etc on as I remember seeing it with my mother who was friendly with Sarah - I have some letters from her even after WWII. I also have some photos of thatched cottages & horses at Kenfig ~1932, but will have to think how they relate to "uncle" and his car. RG4 2293 at PRO Aberavon & Taibach Independent reg of bpt: no 56 Jennet dau of David Morgan & Marry (sic) Powell b 19-12-1823 in psh Lalestown bpt 23-1-1825 From somewhere on the www? Eliz Lovelock 21 signed X appr to Mich Staples for 5 years at Merryland (USA) 4-7-1683, ship master Jon Ingham - several others went as well but seem unconnected. Typed extract from Vol30 of Wilts Archeological & nat Hist Soc Mag 1901 (ex John Thomas?):- 1649 poor rate Chisselden William Lovelocke declined to contribute 1666 poll tax Chisseldon Wm Lovelocke £1 & Jane Lovelocke £1 1705 extract from reg of Bp. of Sarum; Terrier..vicarage of Chisleden - item one pasture ground by est 2 acres, Mr Hering on W side & Henry Louelock on E side. Henry Herring of Stratton st Margaret m Ann Lovelock of Swindon 18-2-1729 at Chisledon. 1733 land tax asst at Badbury John Lovelock 6s4d 1738 land tax at B JL or his tenant 12s8d, at Chisleden widow Lovelock 10s 1786 tithing of Badbury: Propr Loveluck, tenant Giles Tombe, pasture rent £9, tythe 3.6 (3/6? or £3 6s?) My notes: Will of Thomas Loveluck late of Shaw Berks diocese of Sarum 22 Feb 1775: I TL of S farmer to son Edward 4s weekly for life to be paid by whichever of my sons. to son Noah 30 guineas by exors to dau Diana Wallace 30 guineas to dau Betty L 1s to dau Molly L 30 guineas to wife Elizabeth L to live with exors to 3 sons Thomas, Gabriel, John residence X of TL proved Newbury 22-7-1776 Thomas Lovelock was churchwarden at Shaw and signed transcripts "o" 1768-71 and the other TL? chwdn 1778-87. a Wm Lovelock chwdn in 1800 and Gabriel in 1763. Gabriel & Martha had ch 1760-6 Gabriel L of Grange Farm Shaw bur 16-3-1769 Thomas bur 29-1-1776 Gabriel m Eliz L 2-5-1776 Thomas m Ann Crocker 7-7-1777 & had ch to 1790 Elizabeth L age 90 bur 23-10-1792 Wm L & Charlottee had ch 1793-6 Charlotte L age 35 bur 31-3-1801 Martha age 72 bur20-2-1797 There are many other wills of Lovelocks at Sarum. From a letter from John Thomas 22-6-1975: visited Llangyog - grave John Loveluck d 26-5-1889 age 85 & Mary his wife d 17-6-1892 age 76. These are parents of Ann wife Richard Thomas steelmaster. Farm was 105 acres initially rented from Lady Howard Stepney? of Llanelly. Fald Farm was owned by their son David L. Don't know when they bought it from LHS. Next door farmed by a bro & sis Griffiths - their g-mother was Margaret Loveluck. They said that Fald Farm had a lot of books which had belonged to David's bro who died young and (they thought) studied law. My notes from Wills: David L Ad granted to David Griffiths farmer £2014 1935 Extracts from Kelly's: 1871 Wm L custom Ho Officer Jenkins & Loveluck shipbrokers, coal & coke exporters & pitwood merchants James L Westfield Villa Ins Agent for "Royal" 1852 Edward L Legal & Commercial Ins Agent Bridgend 1914 Edward L Talbot Arms Hotel High St Aberavon Wm Griffith L apartments Colebrook Mary St Porthcawl Edward L Mor Lais, Esplanade Av Porthcawl Mrs L Brecon vil Victoria Rd Porthcawl Thomas L farmer Pentyle Margam James G L & son butchers 22 Dunraven Place Bridgend Bertie L (as above?) 11 Nolton St Edward L ARIBA architect Wyndham St Wm L farmer as above? GD L chemist High St Aberavon 1923 John Thomas L farmer Elmsfield Kenfig Wm Bowen L same Bertie asst overseer & collector to UDC, 11 Adare St Bridgend Edward L ARIBA architect 12 Dunraven Pl Thomas L motor engineer 9 Dunraven Pl Thomas J L, butcher 24 Queens St Wm L farmer, Tyn y punt Coity Kelly S Wales 1871 Mrs Margaret L gen draper Dunraven Pl Bridgend Mrs Sarah Marendez Globe & cabinet maker High St (Aberavon?) Edward L draper of Bridgend d 10-5-1862 his Ad & will left unadministered by Margaret widow relict residy legatee for life if she remain a widow. Ad granted 23-12-1891 to Wm L accountant of B, son £170 - former grant Feb1863 <£4000 John Dixon

Hi Graham and all, Its me. Remember I couldnt find anything on my husbands grandfather Frederick John Lovelock. Well he was born in Chelworth, Crudwell Wilts as were 3 of his siblings that I know about. The younger children were born in Shinfield Berks. Their father James was born in Childrey Wantage and his father John in Westcote Berks. I cannot seem to tie him into any of the Wiltshire lines so am still searching for his parents/siblings. I hope you received my husbands family tree sent as promised at Lovelocks Aliive. Love the newsletter and will be subscribing. Best wishes Sian _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

GEE COMMENTS IN UPPER CASE. G ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Sterry" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 9:06 AM > Hi all > > Finally got back to follow-up emails on this line. > > This line is looking very good and may still run further. > > I found Helen Norton's contribution particularly helpful. The Marriage Bond > established two interesting things. The John who married Elizabeth Cheeker > came from Swindon and may have been born there and that he was probably born > about 1714 or a bit earlier. Pity that the Bond only gives the age and > marital status of Elizabeth Checker/Cheeker. If he was in fact a widower, he > would of course have been much older. CAREFUL ROBERT - THAT'S MY SORT OF ASSUMPTION! WIFE No 1, IF THERE HAD BEEN ANOTHER COULD HAVE DIED AS EASILY AFTER ONE DAY AS TEN YEARS. > > However, there was a John L bp at Swindon in 1713 Father John. And indeed a > likely marriage of his father John to an Elizabeth Wilde in 1697 and several > siblings - Mary, Catherine and Ann. > GREAT STUFF. > John L bp at Swindon is also more likely to have been the one buried at > Wroughton in 1767 aged 51 - although the age is three years out. Which is of > course what Graham had in the first place. > OPEN MIND ON THIS, STILL. > If this is correct, this would push back Graham's Wroughton/Tidcombe line > another generation! > > The dates of baptisms of the children of John L and Elizabeth Wilde suggest > some other children should be about somewhere. > > If they married in 1697 and had children approx every two years as is > commonly the case, we have quite a few missing, including possibly a Leonard > bn abt 1715 who died at Wroughton in 1806 at the ripe old age of 91. > > 1698? > 1700? > 1702 - Ann > 1705 - Mary > 1708 - Catherine > 1711 - ? > 1713 - John > 1715 - Leonard? > NO BURIALS TO HELP OUT HERE, ALAS. > Could this marriage at Chiseldon be that of Ann bp at Swindon above? > 1728/29 Feb 18 Henry HERRING of Stratton St Margret's and Ann LOVELOCK of > Swindon > LOOKS GOOD. > Also a Chiseldon connection perhaps? After all it is right next door to > Wroughton! And a very convenient burial. > 1763 Mar 24 John Loveluck aged 65 > > Could this be the missing burial of John L bp 1697 on the Lyneham line? > GOOD QUESTION. > Could this burial at Chisledon > 1714 Sep 23 Kathern Luvlock > be Catherine bp 1708 at Swindon? AGAIN SEEMS MOST LIKELY. BUT IF THEY WERE AT CHISELDON FOR THAT BURIAL ISN'T THAT WHERE WE WOULD EXPECT LEONARD TO BE BAPTISED IF 1715 WAS HIS YEAR? > > I think we can also place a few other Wroughton burials into the tree as > well. Most of these relate to an earlier email with Graham but the tree I > have doesn't appear to have been updated. Unless I have the wrong version!? > > The John buried 1741/42 is almost certainly the John bp 1740 to John and > Elizabeth Cheeker/Checker as they baptised a second John in 1744. AGREED - DON'T KNOW WHY I LEFT IT OUT. > > Mary L buried 1834 aged 76 (bn abt 1758) is probably Mary Carpenter. > AGREED. > Mary buried 1807 aged 62 (bn abt 1745) may have been Mary bn 1742 to John L > and Elizabeth Cheeker/Checker or alternatively a wife called Mary of John bp > 1747. > SITTING ON THE FENCE ON THIS ONE. > The burial of John L in 1785 is almost certainly is probably John L bp 1785 > to Thomas L and Mary Carpenter. And his brother who was baptised in 1778 is > probably the Joh buried in 1780. > ALMOST CERTAINLY, OR PROBABLY, ONE NOT TO COMMENT ON! > The burial of Ann L in 1827 age 7 is probably Ann L bp 1819 to James L and > Lucy Ball. > AGREED. > The burial of Leonard L in 1795 is probably Leonard bp 1795 to Thomas and > Mary Carpenter - and another reason for thinking that John L and Elizabeth > Wilde had a son called Leonard. > AGREED. > Also on the matter of Leonard bn abt 1715, it is likely that this is the > same Leonard who married in Cliffe Pappard in 1743 and was baptising > children in Tidcombe between 1746 and 1754. And indeed, as Graham observed, > the Mary who was buried in Tidcombe in 1806 may well have been Leonard's > wife Mary Carpenter. > THE OTHER MARY CARPENTER THAT IS, OF COURSE. > But I think I should stop there and let others on the list see what they > think of all this.

Do I remember somebody, or somebodies, on the List having an interest in Crudwell? Please let me know if it is not my memory playing tricks. Regards Graham

Well spotted, Robin. It's good to have a real detective joining the team. I have received no messages either on or off list on this one. I believe your suggestion that John was the son of Thomas and Catherine and the husband of Clara is correct. He died (I have the Certificate) on 22 Feb 1881 as I said, and in the next Census Return Clara entered herself as a widow. I didn't spot the Pewsey entry for them in either 1861 or 1871, did anybody else? I'm still wondering about Emma Stagg. She lived in the High Street in Pewsey, as did John and Clara, but there are no house numbers available. At the time of John's death Emma was probably a widow - she certainly was by the time of the Census. But her occupation was Charwoman, so it seems odd that she should report the death, although according to the Certificate she was present. She was aged 42 in 1881, an age which doesn't seem to fit with being a local Lovelock daughter before marriage, so perhaps she just saved Clara the distress of reporting her husband's death. If Catherine died in 1867 as seems likely, we will expect to pick her up eventually in 1861, but so far obviously haven't ........ unless any on the List knows differently? Regards all Graham ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBIN LOVELOCK" Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:39 PM Subject: RE: Yet another (with apologies to those on the Mailing List) John Lovelock > Hello everyone - especially Graham (for reasons which will emerge). > > Leafing through some papers I noticed that some time ago (date uncertain!) I'd highlighted an item under Pewsey Marriages in 'Lovelocks in Wiltshire by Parish'; namely: 1857 Mar 31 John Lovelock of Wootton Rivers & Clara Stone. I'd also highlighted two Pewsey deaths, which I took to be those of the aforementioned John and Clara: he 1881 Feb 26 aged 64 and she 1902 Jan 12 aged 81. > > Rereading a note I'd made alongside the marriage entry I recalled one of Graham's postings to the list, and happily I've managed to relocate it: > Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:48:54 +0100 > Good evening from Yate > > Does anyone know anything of the John Lovelock, a Shoemaker, who died aged 64 on 22 February 1881 in Pewsey? > > Or of any relationship between him and an Emma Stagg? > > Is he the one baptised at Hungerford on 14 April 1816, the son of James and Lucy? And if so, does anyone have any idea who James and Lucy are? > Graham > > As far as I can tell nobody has responded to Graham's request. > > The connection in my mind was 'Shoemaker'. My main interest was/is in the Wootton Rivers reference. > > The 1851 Census for Wootton Rivers includes the following household: > > Catherine Lovelock, 63, Head, Shoebinder (Widow), Birthplace WR > John, 33, Son, Boot and Shoe Maker, Birthplace WR > Martha Lane, 17, Gd-Daur > > I was/am fairly certain that this Catherine's maiden name was Haywood, c. 20 Oct 1788 at WR, in which case her late husband was Thomas Lovelock, who she married at WR on 22 Oct 1811 (see p. 3 of the latest version (pdf) of the Lieflock line). Thomas was buried at WR on 20 Dec 1849 - although there has been some discussion [see Graham's original comment (ooo) on the Lieflock line and subsequent exchanges] of whether that burial was in fact of another John L. c. abt April/May 1790 at Milton Lilbourne, son of William L. and Mary Allen, and indeed the stated age at death (59) seems a better fit with the latter. (Thomas [c. 25 Aug 1793] was a son of John Lovelock [b. abt 1753 at Easton Royal] and Elizabeth Hancock, and a younger brother of John Lovelock c. 31 Aug 1788, whose recent identification as having married Elizabeth Hillier at Preshute 10 Aug 1813 has linked a WR Lovelock line (from which I am descended) with the Lieflock tree.) Among the children of Catherine and Thomas was John c. 29 Dec 1816 at WR. (I think I am right in thinking that neither John nor his elder sister Ann c. 25 Sep 1814 appeared in versions of the Lieflock line prior to this most recent one - although three other children of Thomas and Catherine did; perhaps this was perhaps why, having looked to the WR census data, I did not make the connection until now with Graham's email. > > So my suggestion is that the John Lovelock who died on 22 Feb 1881 (or was buried on 26th?) aged 64 is the same man married in Pewsey in 1857 (i.e. then aged 40 - Clara would have been about 36 then) and also the same John L living with his mother in Wootton Rivers in 1851 aged 33; could the apparent slight age discrepancies with both marriage and census ages be partially explained by a 'late' baptism? (Martha Lane could presumably be the daughter of one of Catherine's (married?) daughters; we have Ann shown as marrying James Bunce, but we know of three other daughters.) > > Further evidence, supportive or otherwise? Free BMD has the deaths of both John and Clara Lovelock as quoted above from PRs via 'Lovelocks in Wiltshire by Parish'; but I can find nothing on the marriage. The IGI seems to have neither the marriage nor either death. (I haven't got much experience of using either, so I may have screwed up!) > > Free BMD does have a record of a death which could well be that of Catherine (nee Haywood): Catherine Lovelock, aged 78, Marlborough District, vol. 5a p. 57, March quarter 1867. The current Lieflock line file does not have a death or burial for Catherine, wife of Thomas. If the John who married aged about 40 in 1857 was her son, she might very well have moved, perhaps to live with another of her children and family, perhaps nearer to or in Marlborough. No member of the household referred to above from the 1851 Census, Wootton Rivers, appears there 10 years later. > > Back to you Graham - and others of course. > > Best wishes from a sunny, but increasingly autumnal-feeling, Southampton > > Robin

Hello everyone - especially Graham (for reasons which will emerge). Leafing through some papers I noticed that some time ago (date uncertain!) I'd highlighted an item under Pewsey Marriages in 'Lovelocks in Wiltshire by Parish'; namely: 1857 Mar 31 John Lovelock of Wootton Rivers & Clara Stone. I'd also highlighted two Pewsey deaths, which I took to be those of the aforementioned John and Clara: he 1881 Feb 26 aged 64 and she 1902 Jan 12 aged 81. Rereading a note I'd made alongside the marriage entry I recalled one of Graham's postings to the list, and happily I've managed to relocate it: From: "Graham Lovelock" <[email protected]> Subject: Yet another (with apologies to those on the Mailing List) John Lovelock Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:48:54 +0100 Good evening from Yate Does anyone know anything of the John Lovelock, a Shoemaker, who died aged 64 on 22 February 1881 in Pewsey? Or of any relationship between him and an Emma Stagg? Is he the one baptised at Hungerford on 14 April 1816, the son of James and Lucy? And if so, does anyone have any idea who James and Lucy are? Regards Graham As far as I can tell nobody has responded to Graham's request. The connection in my mind was 'Shoemaker'. My main interest was/is in the Wootton Rivers reference. The 1851 Census for Wootton Rivers includes the following household: Catherine Lovelock, 63, Head, Shoebinder (Widow), Birthplace WR John, 33, Son, Boot and Shoe Maker, Birthplace WR Martha Lane, 17, Gd-Daur I was/am fairly certain that this Catherine's maiden name was Haywood, c. 20 Oct 1788 at WR, in which case her late husband was Thomas Lovelock, who she married at WR on 22 Oct 1811 (see p. 3 of the latest version (pdf) of the Lieflock line). Thomas was buried at WR on 20 Dec 1849 - although there has been some discussion [see Graham's original comment (ooo) on the Lieflock line and subsequent exchanges] of whether that burial was in fact of another John L. c. abt April/May 1790 at Milton Lilbourne, son of William L. and Mary Allen, and indeed the stated age at death (59) seems a better fit with the latter. (Thomas [c. 25 Aug 1793] was a son of John Lovelock [b. abt 1753 at Easton Royal] and Elizabeth Hancock, and a younger brother of John Lovelock c. 31 Aug 1788, whose recent identification as having married Elizabeth Hillier at Preshute 10 Aug 1813 has linked a WR Lovelock line (from which I am descended) with the Lieflock tree.) Among the children of Catherine and Th! omas was John c. 29 Dec 1816 at WR. (I think I am right in thinking that neither John nor his elder sister Ann c. 25 Sep 1814 appeared in versions of the Lieflock line prior to this most recent one - although three other children of Thomas and Catherine did; perhaps this was perhaps why, having looked to the WR census data, I did not make the connection until now with Graham's email. So my suggestion is that the John Lovelock who died on 22 Feb 1881 (or was buried on 26th?) aged 64 is the same man married in Pewsey in 1857 (i.e. then aged 40 - Clara would have been about 36 then) and also the same John L living with his mother in Wootton Rivers in 1851 aged 33; could the apparent slight age discrepancies with both marriage and census ages be partially explained by a 'late' baptism? (Martha Lane could presumably be the daughter of one of Catherine's (married?) daughter's; we have Ann shown as marrying James Bunce, but we know of three other daughters.) Further evidence, supportive or otherwise? Free BMD has the deaths of both John and Clara Lovelock as quoted above from PRs via 'Lovelocks in Wiltshire by Parish'; but I can find nothing on the marriage. The IGI seems to have neither the marriage nor either death. (I haven't got much experience of using either, so I may have screwed up!) Free BMD does have a record of a death which could well be that of Catherine (nee Haywood): Catherine Lovelock, aged 78, Marlborough District, vol. 5a p. 57, March quarter 1867. The current Lieflock line file does not have a death or burial for Catherine, wife of Thomas. If the John who married aged about 40 in 1857 was her son, she might very well have moved, perhaps to live with another of her children and family, perhaps nearer to or in Marlborough. No member of the household referred to above from the 1851 Census, Wootton Rivers, appears there 10 years later. Back to you Graham - and others of course. Best wishes from a sunny, but increasingly autumnal-feeling, Southampton Robin

Hi all Finally got back to follow-up emails on this line. This line is looking very good and may still run further. I found Helen Norton's contribution particularly helpful. The Marriage Bond established two interesting things. The John who married Elizabeth Cheeker came from Swindon and may have been born there and that he was probably born about 1714 or a bit earlier. Pity that the Bond only gives the age and marital status of Elizabeth Checker/Cheeker. If he was in fact a widower, he would of course have been much older. However, there was a John L bp at Swindon in 1713 Father John. And indeed a likely marriage of his father John to an Elizabeth Wilde in 1697 and several siblings - Mary, Catherine and Ann. John L bp at Swindon is also more likely to have been the one buried at Wroughton in 1767 aged 51 - although the age is three years out. Which is of course what Graham had in the first place. If this is correct, this would push back Graham's Wroughton/Tidcombe line another generation! The dates of baptisms of the children of John L and Elizabeth Wilde suggest some other children should be about somewhere. If they married in 1697 and had children approx every two years as is commonly the case, we have quite a few missing, including possibly a Leonard bn abt 1715 who died at Wroughton in 1806 at the ripe old age of 91. 1698? 1700? 1702 - Ann 1705 - Mary 1708 - Catherine 1711 - ? 1713 - John 1715 - Leonard? Could this marriage at Chiseldon be that of Ann bp at Swindon above? 1728/29 Feb 18 Henry HERRING of Stratton St Margret's and Ann LOVELOCK of Swindon Also a Chiseldon connection perhaps? After all it is right next door to Wroughton! And a very convenient burial. 1763 Mar 24 John Loveluck aged 65 Could this be the missing burial of John L bp 1697 on the Lyneham line? Could this burial at Chisledon 1714 Sep 23 Kathern Luvlock be Catherine bp 1708 at Swindon? I think we can also place a few other Wroughton burials into the tree as well. Most of these relate to an earlier email with Graham but the tree I have doesn't appear to have been updated. Unless I have the wrong version!? The John buried 1741/42 is almost certainly the John bp 1740 to John and Elizabeth Cheeker/Checker as they baptised a second John in 1744. Mary L buried 1834 aged 76 (bn abt 1758) is probably Mary Carpenter. Mary buried 1807 aged 62 (bn abt 1745) may have been Mary bn 1742 to John L and Elizabeth Cheeker/Checker or alternatively a wife called Mary of John bp 1747. The burial of John L in 1785 is almost certainly is probably John L bp 1785 to Thomas L and Mary Carpenter. And his brother who was baptised in 1778 is probably the Joh buried in 1780. The burial of Ann L in 1827 age 7 is probably Ann L bp 1819 to James L and Lucy Ball. The burial of Leonard L in 1795 is probably Leonard bp 1795 to Thomas and Mary Carpenter - and another reason for thinking that John L and Elizabeth Wilde had a son called Leonard. Also on a the matter of Leonard bn abt 1715, it is likely that this is the same Leonard who married in Cliffe Pappard in 1743 and was baptising children in Tidcombe between 1746 and 1754. And indeed, as Graham observed, the Mary who was buried in Tidcombe in 1806 may well have been Leonard's wife Mary Carpenter. But I think I should stop there and let others on the list see what they think of all this. Cheers Robert ---------------------------------------------- Robert Sterry 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 Email: [email protected]

Congratulations on newsletter, got mine this morning. Would just like to make a correction. My e-mail address was wrong on back page in editors letters.It is [email protected] Best wishes to all Jean Gilmore

My apologies Colin. The results from the Australian Jury are: Australian Capital Territories (ACT) New South Wales 3 Queensland 3 Tasmania Victoria 3 Best Wishes John -----Original Message----- From: Colin Borrott-Maloney [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 13 September 2004 12:47 To: John Lovelock Subject: Re: Lovelock Lines - Where are the readers? & & & AUSTRALIA ! ? ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lovelock" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:40 PM Subject: Lovelock Lines - Where are the readers? > Hello Yann > > Now that Edition 1 has hit the streets I thought it would be > interesting to see where our readers are living. > > The majority are in Wiltshire with Berkshire, Hampshire and > Oxfordshire next in line. > > The results from addresses on the Mailing List are as follows : > > ENGLAND > > Berkshire 10 > Birmingham > Buckinghamshire 3 > Cornwall 2 > Devon > Dorset 2 > Essex > Gloucestershire > Hampshire 6 > Hertfordshire > Huntingdonshire > Kent 2 > Leicestershire > Lincolnshire > London 2 > Northamptonshire > Oxfordshire 4 > Somerset 2 > Warwickshire 3 > West Sussex 2 > Wiltshire 16 > Worcestershire 2 > Yorkshire > > CANADA > > Alberta > Ontario > > FRANCE > > Only one - guess who! > > NEW ZEALAND > > USA > > Arizona > CT ( not sure which state this is - can someone advise ) Illinois > Indiana > Pennsylvania > > WALES > > Carmarthenshire 2 > Flintshire > Pembrokeshire > Swansea > Yns Mon ( Anglesey ) > > Best Wishes > > John > > > > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > __________ NOD32 1.868 (20040910) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.nod32.com > >

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:40:49 +0100 John Lovelock <[email protected]> wrote: CT is Connecticut > Hello Yann > > Now that Edition 1 has hit the streets I thought it would be interesting > to see where our readers are living. > > The majority are in Wiltshire with Berkshire, Hampshire and Oxfordshire > next in line. > > The results from addresses on the Mailing List are as follows : > > ENGLAND > > Berkshire 10 > Birmingham > Buckinghamshire 3 > Cornwall 2 > Devon > Dorset 2 > Essex > Gloucestershire > Hampshire 6 > Hertfordshire > Huntingdonshire > Kent 2 > Leicestershire > Lincolnshire > London 2 > Northamptonshire > Oxfordshire 4 > Somerset 2 > Warwickshire 3 > West Sussex 2 > Wiltshire 16 > Worcestershire 2 > Yorkshire > > CANADA > > Alberta > Ontario > > FRANCE > > Only one - guess who! > > NEW ZEALAND > > USA > > Arizona > CT ( not sure which state this is - can someone advise ) > Illinois > Indiana > Pennsylvania > > WALES > > Carmarthenshire 2 > Flintshire > Pembrokeshire > Swansea > Yns Mon ( Anglesey ) > > Best Wishes > > John > > > > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > ---------------------------------------- Michael E Turner Professor of Economic History Department of History University of Hull Cottingham Road Hull HU6 7RX Tel: (44)(0) 1482 465913 Fax: (44)(0) 1482 466126 Web: http://www.hull.ac.uk/history/homepage.html Email: [email protected]

Hello Yann Now that Edition 1 has hit the streets I thought it would be interesting to see where our readers are living. The majority are in Wiltshire with Berkshire, Hampshire and Oxfordshire next in line. The results from addresses on the Mailing List are as follows : ENGLAND Berkshire 10 Birmingham Buckinghamshire 3 Cornwall 2 Devon Dorset 2 Essex Gloucestershire Hampshire 6 Hertfordshire Huntingdonshire Kent 2 Leicestershire Lincolnshire London 2 Northamptonshire Oxfordshire 4 Somerset 2 Warwickshire 3 West Sussex 2 Wiltshire 16 Worcestershire 2 Yorkshire CANADA Alberta Ontario FRANCE Only one - guess who! NEW ZEALAND USA Arizona CT ( not sure which state this is - can someone advise ) Illinois Indiana Pennsylvania WALES Carmarthenshire 2 Flintshire Pembrokeshire Swansea Yns Mon ( Anglesey ) Best Wishes John