I should probably have posted the message below to the list but I replied direct to James. I also prepend a few more details that may be of interest. MORE DETAILS In the 1851 census the entry (H0107/2016 300) is as follows (although rather hard to read!) Brewood Chillington Lane (or road or street or somesuch) Daniel Lovelock, Head, Marr., 58, Gardener, born Wilts - Compton Basset Mary Lovelock, Wife, Marr, 43, Gardener's wife, born Staffordshire, Wolverhampton. Note that this Mary is a second wife whom Daniel married in 1847 in Wolverhampton - I await the certificate. They appear to have had a child Ann born in 1848 and dying the same year. I don't know if they had anymore children. I have not yet located daughter Mary in the 1851 census but she married the next year Mary Lovelock married George Ridley as follows:- 1852 Marriage Solemnized at St Mary's Church in the Parish of St. Mary's Wolverhampton in the County of Stafford April 19th 1852 George Ridley of full age, Bachelor, Profession : Joiner, of Poultney's fold, Father John Ridley, Farmer Mary Lovelock, of full age, Spinster, of Falkland Street, Father Daniel Lovelock, Profession: Gardener Witnesses: Charles Ridley, Mary Jennings In the 1861 census for Tettenhall (RG-1984 43) George and Mary are living with a young son John. Mary Lovelock - by now Mary Ridley is listed as age 37 born in Gloucester. George died young at age 42 in 1868 and a Mary Ridley I take to be the widowed Mary appears in the 1871 census (RG10-2923 folio 65 page 3) as a Housekeeper aged 49 unmarried - not widowed (note her presumed birth year is now the same as the Mary born in the Lovelock - Rees line). She is working for a landowner in the same place (Brewood, a sub district of Penkridge) as father Daniel was working in in 1851 as per the census (I speculate Daniel may just have been a gardener at the same house unless the term gardener was reserved for market gardner. I haven't yet got around to finding Daniel in the1861 census.) Daniel also died in 1868 (1868 Penkridge Vol 6b page 273 - but I still await the certificate) so it was a rough year for Mary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Knight" <[email protected]> To: "James Loveluck" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Daniel Lovelock Wolverhampton > James, > > Many thanks for your prompt reply and interesting suggestion. I think > there is certainly a possibility of my Daniel being the one who married > Jane Roberts. I see from 1837 online that is was in fact Jane who died in > 1846 and not Daniel. I have ordered the certificate just in case it throws > any light on the situation. I have also ordered the certificate for what I > believe to be Daniel's death in 1868 in Wolverhampton. > > As you surmise, I was making the link with Thomas Lovelock and Jane > Bratfield - because the year of Daniel's birth was 1793 and the > birthplace was Compton Basset (going by the 1851 census). > > It may just be a coincidence but I recall my grandfather (my Daniel's > grandson) telling me a tale when I was a boy about some ancestor who had > founded a town in California. I think he referred to it as Silver City. As > this is the kind of thing that gets exaggerated and changed in the > telling, I pretty much forgot about it once the initial boyish excitement > had worn off and indeed, until now had hardly given it a thought. > > It would be interesting to see the baptismal record for Mary. As you > observe the dates don't quite fit (my date of 1824 comes from the 1861 > census in which she is married age 37) but are indeed within the margin of > error that one often sees. Unfortunately, her marriage certificate only > says she is of full age. > > Regards, > Chris > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Loveluck" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: Daniel Lovelock Wolverhampton > > >> Chris, >> >> I wonder if Daniel Lovelock could be the progenitor of the "Nevada >> Lovelock Line"? You will find this on the Web site as the first fragment >> of the "Misc Trees" at: >> http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/fragments/misc-lovelock-trees.html >> >> According to this fragment Daniel (a gardner!) married Jane Roberts at >> Oystermouth, Glam, Wales 4 Jan 1816 and they had 5 children, including >> Mary bap. 20 Apr 1822 at Newport Wales (this doesn't quite fit your data >> but it's within the errors of census returns etc.) The fragment has >> Daniel died at Wolverhampton 22 Apr 1846 which must be wrong if he >> re-married in 1847. >> >> I assume that the link to the "Lyneham Line" (descendants of Abraham >> Lovelock and Priscilla Greenway) would be by the identification of Daniel >> as the son of Thomas Lovelock and Jane Bratfield, baptised 3 Mar 1793 at >> Compton Bassett. It would be very interesting if we could link the Nevada >> Lovelocks to the Lyneham Line! >> >> Regards, >> >> James >> >> Chris Knight wrote: >> >>> Daniel was my 3rd great grandfather and at the time of the 1851 census, >>> aged 58 and a gardener, lived in Wolverhampton (Brewood) with his >>> second wife and daughter Mary (my 2nd great grandmother) by an earlier >>> marriage. He married his second wife in Wolverhampton in 1847. >>> >>> Daniel's birthplace is given as Compton Basset and I believe him to have >>> been descended from the line of Abraham Lovelock and Priscilla >>> Greenaway. His daughter Mary was born abt 1824 in Gloucester according >>> to an 1861 census entry for her. >>> >>> I wonder if anyone might have a clue about Mary's mother Daniel's first >>> wife - and whether he may have had other children by her? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Chris Knight >>> >> >> >> ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== >> Lovelock family history Web pages: >> http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ >> >> ============================== >> View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >> marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx >> >> >> >

Chris, I wonder if Daniel Lovelock could be the progenitor of the "Nevada Lovelock Line"? You will find this on the Web site as the first fragment of the "Misc Trees" at: http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/fragments/misc-lovelock-trees.html According to this fragment Daniel (a gardner!) married Jane Roberts at Oystermouth, Glam, Wales 4 Jan 1816 and they had 5 children, including Mary bap. 20 Apr 1822 at Newport Wales (this doesn't quite fit your data but it's within the errors of census returns etc.) The fragment has Daniel died at Wolverhampton 22 Apr 1846 which must be wrong if he re-married in 1847. I assume that the link to the "Lyneham Line" (descendants of Abraham Lovelock and Priscilla Greenway) would be by the identification of Daniel as the son of Thomas Lovelock and Jane Bratfield, baptised 3 Mar 1793 at Compton Bassett. It would be very interesting if we could link the Nevada Lovelocks to the Lyneham Line! Regards, James Chris Knight wrote: > Daniel was my 3rd great grandfather and at the time of the 1851 > census, aged 58 and a gardener, lived in Wolverhampton (Brewood) with > his second wife and daughter Mary (my 2nd great grandmother) by an > earlier marriage. He married his second wife in Wolverhampton in 1847. > > Daniel's birthplace is given as Compton Basset and I believe him to > have been descended from the line of Abraham Lovelock and Priscilla > Greenaway. His daughter Mary was born abt 1824 in Gloucester according > to an 1861 census entry for her. > > I wonder if anyone might have a clue about Mary's mother Daniel's > first wife - and whether he may have had other children by her? > > Thanks, > Chris Knight >

Daniel was my 3rd great grandfather and at the time of the 1851 census, aged 58 and a gardener, lived in Wolverhampton (Brewood) with his second wife and daughter Mary (my 2nd great grandmother) by an earlier marriage. He married his second wife in Wolverhampton in 1847. Daniel's birthplace is given as Compton Basset and I believe him to have been descended from the line of Abraham Lovelock and Priscilla Greenaway. His daughter Mary was born abt 1824 in Gloucester according to an 1861 census entry for her. I wonder if anyone might have a clue about Mary's mother Daniel's first wife - and whether he may have had other children by her? Thanks, Chris Knight

Hello all, Robert Sterry extracted Lovelock burials from the National Burial Index, 2nd edition and added the records to the collections of records as follows: - Lovelocks in Berkshire - Lovelocks in Glamorgan - Lovelocks in Kent - Lovelocks in London - Lovelocks in Oxfordshire (this update also includes a number of records provided by John Lovelock) - Lovelocks in Surrey - Lovelocks in Wiltshire The corresponding files have now been updated on the Web site. Regards, James

May I take this opportunity on behalf of Yann and myself to thank the numerous Listers who have written to say how much they enjoyed reading our inaugural publication. Following the success of Issue 1 Yann has now embarked on the production of Issue No.2 which is scheduled for distribution at the end of January 2005. If you have any Lovelock related geneological research that you would like to share with other readers please forward your article to Yann at [email protected] by the copy deadline of 31st December 2004. The edition will be available on the Lovelock Web Site. If however you ( or any relatives ) would prefer to receive a copy through the post ( and you havn't already sent me a subscription ) please can you send me a cheque as soon as possible. The subscription for UK residents is £2 and £3 for overseas. Overseas subscribers may wish to send me cash which can be exchanged ( commission free ) at the Bureau De Change in the Post Office. Payment should be sent to me at the following address: 13 Coppice Way Hedgerley SLOUGH SL2 3YL Best Wishes John Lovelock -----Original Message----- From: John Lovelock Sent: 08 July 2004 17:09 To: [email protected] Cc: '[email protected]' Subject: Lovelock Lines One of the suggestions made at the Lovelocks Alive Event was that a Newsletter provisionally titled Lovelock Lines should be prepared to record the event and to promote the Lovelock List and Web Site. A number of people who attended the event ( or made an enquiry ) do not have internet access so it was agreed that the small surplus be used to cover printing and postage for this initial edition. Yann Lovelock kindly volunteered to edit the newsletter with a view to publication in August 2004. Yann would appreciate stories from your Lovelock research. Material should be sent to Yann at ............. [email protected] A brief record of the event will appear in the September issue of Family History Monthly which will be published mid August. Best Wishes John Lovelock

Glad to see you've joined the list Cathy. I thought I'd better hasten to correct one thing you said about me and clarify another - for differing reasons. (i) I'm glad to have been able to help put you in touch with fellow-researchers, but I'm a 'he' not a 'she' (and with a beard too), as listers I met face-to-face at 'Lovelocks Alive' will know! One of the dangers of email! A few years back I experienced a precise parallel in the quite different context of an email exchange with an American academic - a feminist philosopher - about the relevance to social work of Ludwig Wittgenstein's ideas on language and meaning. After 2 or 3 emails either way she said something which alerted me to her misapprehension - not in thinking that I was sympathetic to her ideas, which I very much was/am, but that she and I were both women. There may be a US/UK variation around the use/spelling of 'Robin'; I think females are usually 'Robyn' in the UK - although I've met at least one who was 'Robin' too. (ii) To save embarrassment or confusion, all the places you list - and of course also Wootton Rivers and Pewsey which featured in your original enquiry - are quite close together around the E. Wilts/W. Berks/N.W. Hants borders, but Ipswich (Suffolk) is a long way distant (even now). Good luck - and best wishes to all Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:57 PM Subject: From Cathy Obeshaw Lovelock/Newman/Cummins/Jordan etc. > > > Hello to everyone on the list. Robin has asked me to join the list and > talk with everyone. > My ancestors have married into the Lovelock line. > I am descended from James Jordan who married Elizabeth Newman. James's > brother is John who married Eliza Lovelock. > I also have heard that there are some people related to the Cummins line here > too, and I have many of them. > My England surname interests are; Cummins, Newman, Jordan, Lovelock, Bulpit, > Collins, Alderman and Munnings. Areas they were in are; > Hungerford Berkshire, Ashmansworth Hampshire, Faccombe Hampshire, Buttermere > and Oxenwood Wiltshire, Ipswich Suffolk. > I live in Michigan in the U.S. and have never been to England though I hope > someday to visit. Robin had told me how close a lot of these places are, which > will help me. She has been such a great help to me and so quick! > I would love to hear from anyone. > Thanks so much > Cathy Obeshaw > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hello to everyone on the list. Robin has asked me to join the list and talk with everyone. My ancestors have married into the Lovelock line. I am descended from James Jordan who married Elizabeth Newman. James's brother is John who married Eliza Lovelock. I also have heard that there are some people related to the Cummins line here too, and I have many of them. My England surname interests are; Cummins, Newman, Jordan, Lovelock, Bulpit, Collins, Alderman and Munnings. Areas they were in are; Hungerford Berkshire, Ashmansworth Hampshire, Faccombe Hampshire, Buttermere and Oxenwood Wiltshire, Ipswich Suffolk. I live in Michigan in the U.S. and have never been to England though I hope someday to visit. Robin had told me how close a lot of these places are, which will help me. She has been such a great help to me and so quick! I would love to hear from anyone. Thanks so much Cathy Obeshaw

Hi Sian, I am quite excited as I have just found our James on the 1837 online site! James Lovelock, registered Wantage, in Oct-Dec 1837, GRO ref vol 6 pg 202. I also found his 2 brothers William, reg Wantage in Apr-Jun 1838 and George reg in Wantage in Jul-Sep 1838. They must have been born barely 9 months apart.. The James reg in Sept 1838 is also on the 1837 site, but in Reading. As I mentioned before I contacted a lady called Jill on Genes Reunited and she has that James in her tree, and it definitely isn't ours. I am going to order copy of the birth certificate for the Wantage James Lovelock, hopefully it will confirm he is son of John and Harriet Lovelock. Will let you know. Best wishes, Michelle sian davies <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Michelle, I have James reg in the Sept qtr of 1838, will check again. Have you heard from Ron again We had a lovely weekend, the weather was lovely. Best Wishes Sian >From: michelle lovelock >To: sian davies >Subject: RE: James Lovelock >Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:20:31 +0100 (BST) > >Hi, >Yes, I thought it had to be that James Lovelock as well, but on the >Lovelock site it shows this James with his family, father also called >James, in the Reading district. If only it was this James, as he stays the >same age on each census, his birth and wedding are listed, etc etc! >I am not sure which age to believe, but there are 2 brothers of James >listed as age 11 and 10 on the 1851 census, and he is listed as 13; and in >the 1841 census he is listed as aged 3 - as this is while he is still young >I am inclined to go with this. I guess the confusion set in as he got >older, due to illiteracy and bad records etc.. Would explain why we can't >find his birth record on internet, as pre-1837. I am starting to feel >fairly sure he was born in 1837. >The other 2 elder brothers, William and George are both registered in 1838, >one in first quarter, one in last quarter, so I guess Harriet just had a >fertile year!! >I had an e-mail from a great grandson of John and Harriet's youngest son >Charles, a man called Ron Shepperd, he says Harriet's maiden name is Davis. >Hopefully when he sends me his tree it will have some info we don't yet >know! >Have a nice weekend away, >Michelle. > >sian davies wrote: >Dear Michelle, > >What a shame as this James Frederick fitted perfectly. I will look on Genes >Reunited as I am subscribed to it. Have you put your tree on it. I have >put mine on but not Freddies Lovelock side. Should we not believe the >wedding certificate rather than the census and believe he was born in 1838. >This family sure makes life difficult moving as they did between Wilts and >Berks. I did email Uncle Bob that we had been corresponding and the info on >James Lovelock but have not had a reply. > >I am away for the weekend so speak to you next week > >Best Wishes > >Sian > > > >From: michelle lovelock > >To: sian davies > >Subject: RE: James Lovelock marriage cert > >Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:24:31 +0100 (BST) > > > >Sian, > >I have looked at the 1851 census on lovelock webpage, and it shows this > >entry: > >John 42, born Westcote > >Harriet 36, born Denchworth > >with children Ann 16; James 13; William 11; George 10; Jane 4; John >3months > >(all born various places in Wantage). > >Looking at later census' adds 2 more children, Charles b1856 and Esther > >b1852. > >I think this is likely to be our James and John, but it gives yet another > >birth year for James, as if he was 13 in 1851 he couldn't have been 26 in > >1865 as per wedding certificate! > >I don't think the James registered in 1838 in Reading is the same James, >as > >an ancestor of this James is on the Genes Reunited site and I have viewed > >her tree. > >I am guessing James' birth is nowhere on the internet, but was pre 1837 >so > >not on bmd. > >Michelle > > > >sian davies wrote: > >Michelle the only James Lovelock I could find on bmd was James Frederick > >Sept qtr 1838 in the district of Reading and Jane Brind Sept 1843 in > >Newbury > >which would make them 26 and 21 which would be the right ages for the > >marriage cert Sian. Interesting that James was a Frederick > > > > > > >From: michelle lovelock > > >To: sian davies > > >Subject: James Lovelock marriage cert > > >Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:47:56 +0100 (BST) > > > > > >Hi Sian, > > >Hope you are well. Just to let you know I ordered the marriage > >certificate, > > >and it is the correct one. It shows James Lovelock age 26 marrying Jane > > >Brind age 21,in the parish of Sparshott, Berks, on April 15th 1865. > > >The hand writing is fairly clear on Jane's surname, definitely Brind > >rather > > >than Bruid, as you read from Fredk J birth certificate. > > >His father shown as John Lovelock, her's as Elijah Brind. Place of > > >residence listed as Westcote, Berks, which ties in with info from the > >1871 > > >census where James lists his place of birth as Wescote. > > >I think this gives us a lot more definite info about the pair! > > >Michelle > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you >100MB! > > >Get Yahoo! Mail > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE > >with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo!Photos > >_________________________________________________________________ >It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > >--------------------------------- > How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you 100MB! >Get Yahoo! Mail _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo!Photos

Hi Sian, Have you ordered the certificate for the James reg in 1838? I'm sure this is the James Fredk who married an Eliza and is from the Reading area, but I may be wrong. I think our James, whenever he was born! will be registered in the Childrey district of Wantage, as this is where he is shown as being born on the 1841 and 1851 census. The later ones just say Wantage. I did hear from Ron, but he does not have the line back any further than us. Glad you had a nice break - I have just got back from a weekend in Newcastle, weather not quite so lovely! sian davies <[email protected]> wrote: Hello Michelle, I have James reg in the Sept qtr of 1838, will check again. Have you heard from Ron again We had a lovely weekend, the weather was lovely. Best Wishes Sian >From: michelle lovelock >To: sian davies >Subject: RE: James Lovelock >Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 23:20:31 +0100 (BST) > >Hi, >Yes, I thought it had to be that James Lovelock as well, but on the >Lovelock site it shows this James with his family, father also called >James, in the Reading district. If only it was this James, as he stays the >same age on each census, his birth and wedding are listed, etc etc! >I am not sure which age to believe, but there are 2 brothers of James >listed as age 11 and 10 on the 1851 census, and he is listed as 13; and in >the 1841 census he is listed as aged 3 - as this is while he is still young >I am inclined to go with this. I guess the confusion set in as he got >older, due to illiteracy and bad records etc.. Would explain why we can't >find his birth record on internet, as pre-1837. I am starting to feel >fairly sure he was born in 1837. >The other 2 elder brothers, William and George are both registered in 1838, >one in first quarter, one in last quarter, so I guess Harriet just had a >fertile year!! >I had an e-mail from a great grandson of John and Harriet's youngest son >Charles, a man called Ron Shepperd, he says Harriet's maiden name is Davis. >Hopefully when he sends me his tree it will have some info we don't yet >know! >Have a nice weekend away, >Michelle. > >sian davies wrote: >Dear Michelle, > >What a shame as this James Frederick fitted perfectly. I will look on Genes >Reunited as I am subscribed to it. Have you put your tree on it. I have >put mine on but not Freddies Lovelock side. Should we not believe the >wedding certificate rather than the census and believe he was born in 1838. >This family sure makes life difficult moving as they did between Wilts and >Berks. I did email Uncle Bob that we had been corresponding and the info on >James Lovelock but have not had a reply. > >I am away for the weekend so speak to you next week > >Best Wishes > >Sian > > > >From: michelle lovelock > >To: sian davies > >Subject: RE: James Lovelock marriage cert > >Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 00:24:31 +0100 (BST) > > > >Sian, > >I have looked at the 1851 census on lovelock webpage, and it shows this > >entry: > >John 42, born Westcote > >Harriet 36, born Denchworth > >with children Ann 16; James 13; William 11; George 10; Jane 4; John >3months > >(all born various places in Wantage). > >Looking at later census' adds 2 more children, Charles b1856 and Esther > >b1852. > >I think this is likely to be our James and John, but it gives yet another > >birth year for James, as if he was 13 in 1851 he couldn't have been 26 in > >1865 as per wedding certificate! > >I don't think the James registered in 1838 in Reading is the same James, >as > >an ancestor of this James is on the Genes Reunited site and I have viewed > >her tree. > >I am guessing James' birth is nowhere on the internet, but was pre 1837 >so > >not on bmd. > >Michelle > > > >sian davies wrote: > >Michelle the only James Lovelock I could find on bmd was James Frederick > >Sept qtr 1838 in the district of Reading and Jane Brind Sept 1843 in > >Newbury > >which would make them 26 and 21 which would be the right ages for the > >marriage cert Sian. Interesting that James was a Frederick > > > > > > >From: michelle lovelock > > >To: sian davies > > >Subject: James Lovelock marriage cert > > >Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:47:56 +0100 (BST) > > > > > >Hi Sian, > > >Hope you are well. Just to let you know I ordered the marriage > >certificate, > > >and it is the correct one. It shows James Lovelock age 26 marrying Jane > > >Brind age 21,in the parish of Sparshott, Berks, on April 15th 1865. > > >The hand writing is fairly clear on Jane's surname, definitely Brind > >rather > > >than Bruid, as you read from Fredk J birth certificate. > > >His father shown as John Lovelock, her's as Elijah Brind. Place of > > >residence listed as Westcote, Berks, which ties in with info from the > >1871 > > >census where James lists his place of birth as Wescote. > > >I think this gives us a lot more definite info about the pair! > > >Michelle > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you >100MB! > > >Get Yahoo! Mail > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger > >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE > >with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo!Photos > >_________________________________________________________________ >It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! >http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > >--------------------------------- > How much mail storage do you get for free? Yahoo! Mail gives you 100MB! >Get Yahoo! Mail _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger --------------------------------- Does your mail provider give you a FREE online calendar? Yahoo! does. Get Yahoo! Mail

Hello all, I've updated some of the files on the Web sites containing Lovelock extracts from various censuses as follows: * Completed the 1881 census Lovelock extracts for Wilts <http://perso.numericable.fr/%7Elovjames/family-history/lovelock/documents/1881-wilts.htm>. It now includes all records from the LDS CD-ROM * Corrected the 1891 <http://perso.numericable.fr/%7Elovjames/family-history/lovelock/documents/1891-wilts.htm> and 1871 <http://perso.numericable.fr/%7Elovjames/family-history/lovelock/documents/1871-wilts.htm> census extracts for Wilts: a record for N. Street, Pewsey had been inadvertently included in the 1871 census data instead of the 1871 data * Added some records for Shalbourne to the 1881 census extracts for Berks <http://perso.numericable.fr/%7Elovjames/family-history/lovelock/documents/1881-berks.htm> James

I sent the following message to Cathy Obeshaw yesterday, with a copy to 'the list'. Because I'd included some rich text formatting the list copy bounced back, so here's the original without the enhancements! I've had an initial reply from Cathy so I've pasted that in below, after my original. From past experience I'm sure other 'listers' will be able and willing to help and encourage Cathy with her research. Best wishes to all Robin >Hi Cathy An uncle of mine recently passed me a cutting from his local paper - the Wiltshire News I think. I've retrieved its equivalent from their website: "Hi, I am searching for the families of Jordan, Cummins, Lovelock and Newman. I have a James Jordan married to Elizabeth Newman in 1801. I have Caroline Cummins married to Jonas Cummins (son of John). I have John Jordan married to Eliza Lovelock in 1845. Thomas Jordan married to Eliza Alderman. Any links to these families would be great. The Jordan family is from the Wootten Rivers/Pewsey area. The Cummins from Buttermere. Thank you so much Cathy Obeshaw Posted July 2004" Among other things it's clear that Basil - my uncle - has been 'sitting on' this for a while 'til he saw me. Apologies for that. We're descended from Wootton Rivers Lovelocks, so depending on where you fit amongst the four family names you quoted, we may be more or less distantly related. More on this below. Over the last few months, Basil and I have become (more) interested and involved in our family history, mainly through hearing about and taking part in a weekend gathering - 'Lovelocks Alive' - which took place in early June in Hungerford (Berkshire). It seems from the date of your note in the local paper that you 'just missed it'. You may of course live far away, although Lovelocks attended from many parts of the world, as well as 'locals'. What that weekend drew me into was a fantastic website devoted to Lovelock Family history; you can find it at http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ If you visit the site you'll find not only hundreds of photos of the Lovelocks Alive weekend, but masses of material which I'm sure will be helpful in your investigations - albeit primarily on the Lovelock dimension. I mentioned that I'm descended from the Wootton Rivers Lovelocks; as you'll see from the website, there've been some significant developments over the summer on several puzzles concerning whether/where the WR Lovelocks link into a particular very large family tree which has been built up. This has been an ongoing saga and some of the relevant discussion has taken place on a Lovelock mailing list, which you may also like to visit and - I recommend - subscribe to; this is at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/surname/l/lovelock.html Discussion also goes on off-list of course, especially on points of detail. In fact (and apologies if this or anything else I've written is already very familiar to you) Rootsweb hosts hundreds of surname-based mailing lists, so I'm sure you'll find some or all of the other three names you're interested in represented. The Lovelock Family History website also has search facilities, so you could put in each of the other three names and see where that goes. I hope you won't mind that I'm copying this email to the Lovelock mailing list, as an easy way of alerting others with an interest in the Pewsey/Wootton Rivers area and in effect inviting them to contact you. Also, as well as myself, I'm sure one or more of Graham Lovelock, James Loveluck and Robert Sterry will be pleased to hear from/help you. These three are among the 'main movers' as regards the Lovelock website material - as you'll quickly see when - as I hope you will - you visit the site, and they're all vastly more experienced than me in doing family history. I'm also copying this to them 'direct' - they'll get it anyway via the mailing list - so you'll find their email addresses above. I was pretty sure I recalled some of the other names you're interested in from browsing and working with Lovelock website data. (It wouldn't surprise me if Graham and/or others immediately have more leads.) Sure enough, the wedding of John Jordan and Eliza Lovelock appears in a large file on the website called 'Lovelocks in Wiltshire', which is organised by parish and consists mainly of data extracted directly or indirectly from parish registers. Thus - as you probably know perfectly well! - the John/Eliza wedding appears in the Wootton Rivers PR as having taken place on 8 November 1845. There's also Eliza's baptism - well, it's a reasonable assumption it's hers - on 25 December 1822. (Incidentally, three of her brother David's children were also baptised at Wootton on Christmas Day, during the 1850s.) Looking at what was until recently 'merely' 'a Wootton Rivers Fragment', but which now (as briefly mentioned earlier) forms part of the largest tree which Graham, James, Robert and others have built up, namely the so-called 'Lieflock line', I found that Eliza was in fact the younger sister of my great-great-grandfather, David, born in Wootton Rivers in 1814 - the David I mentioned in the 'Christmas Day' bracket a couple of lines above. Identifying Eliza and David's parents, John and Elizabeth, with reasonable confidence has been the key to the mystery of linking the Wootton Rivers Lovelocks to the Lieflock line. Eliza and her husband appear near the top of page 3 of the latest pdf file version of the Lieflock line. (I hope 'pdf' etc. means something to you; it will when you're on-site I'm sure.) I hope at least some of this is helpful and encouraging, and that you'll find lots more that's useful in your research via the pointers I've tried to give. And of course, I'll be very happy to hear back from you. With best wishes Robin PS I'd be interested to know where you're living - UK? USA? (aol.com!) I live in Southampton, about 45 miles south of Wootton Rivers. Basil lives in Devizes, rather closer to WR, but to the west (and a bit south!). Kathy's reply: >Hi Robin, I live in Michigan U.S.A. I just found that our Jordan line connects to the Newman line. I have James Jordan born abt 1780 and Elizabeth Newman born abt 1782 both in Wootton Rivers. I have nothing else on them, but would love to learn more if you or anyone could help me. I can't get to England. My Cummins line is out of Berks, Wilts and Hampshire. Thank you so much for contacting me and all the help in your letter. I will look and see what I can find. Will wait to hear from you again, Cathy Obeshaw

Just noting that we have checked Pewsey baptisms 1568-1840, at least from a Modern Transcript. Robert ---------------------------------------------- Robert Sterry 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 Email: [email protected]

Greetings again Lindsay Just to recap what we know so far about your own family. Your great grandmother Sarah Matilda Anne Lovelock was born abt 1870 at Winterbourne Bassett in Wiltshire. She married Tom Angell at Highworth RD in 1890 and they had a great many children - 12-13 and lived in the Swindon area. We know (from the 1881 census) that her father was George Lovelock who was born abt 1839 at Clyffe Pyppard and that he married a Mary Unknown, also from Cliffe Pyppard. We also know from the 1881 census that they were married by 1865 when their eldest then living at home was born. So were probably married sometime between 1859 and 1865 at or near Clyffe Pyppard. Clyffe Pyppard is in the Registration District of Cricklade. All Lovelock marriages for these years have been extracted from the GRO by Malcolm and myself and are available on the Lovelock website: http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/gen-records.ht m#gro There are only two marriages that fit: Event Year Surname Forenames Reg District Vol Page Qtr/Mo Marriage 1857 Lovelock George Cricklade 5a 59 4 Marriage 1860 Lovelock George Cricklade 5a 27 1 One of these is likely to be that of your g.grandmother's parents, the second being the more likely. It would therefore be very worthwhile obtaining the certificate of at least that second marriage. The marriage certificate will tell you, amongst other things, the name and occupation of his father. If they were married then, it is likely that they had other children between 1860 and 1865, who had probably left home by 1881. Also on the Lovelock site you will find all baptisms, burials and marriages that have been extracted from parish registers and indexes for Wiltshire. http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/lovelocks-in-w ilts.htm Under Clyffe Pappard baptisms you will see that we have baptisms from the LDS Vital Records Baptisms for Clyffe Pypard 1576-1874. But none of your family are there. So they may have been born in Clyffe Pappard but baptised in another nearby parish. The Cricklade registration district includes the parishes of Ashton Keynes, Braydon, Broad Town (from 1884), Clyffe Pypard, Cricklade, Elsey, Latton, Leigh, Lydiard Millicent, Lydiard Tregoze, Lyneham, Marston Meysey (from 1882), Purton, Tockenham, Wootton Bassett. We don't have ALL Lovelocks baptisms extracted from the GRO before 1871 but the Free BMD site would certainly be worth checking on: http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ We know that the family appears to have moved from Cliffe Pappard to Winterbourne Bassett about 1870, where your g. grandmother was born. Winterbourne Bassett is in the registration district of Marlborough. We only have ALL Lovelock births extracted from the GRO from 1871 and she doesn't appear to be there. So worth checking the GRO index for the four quarters of the year 1870. Also of course Free BMD. Searched our GRO index for your g.grandmother's siblings: Henry bn abt 1872 and Eliza bn abt 1876 both in Winterbourne Bassett. These looked possibles: Event Year Surname Forenames Reg District Vol Page Qtr/Mo Birth 1871 Lovelock Henry Marlborough 5a 84 3 Birth 1872 Lovelock Henry Cricklade 5a 35 2 Birth 1872 Lovelock Harry Cricklade 5a 29 2 But couldn't find anything for Eliza. We haven't done any systematic Lovelock extractions for Winterbourne Bassett at all. So there's a few leads. I'm sure other Lovelock will have a few suggestions as well.Let's know how you get on. Best wishes Robert From a delighfully sunny and mild Spring day at Kurrajong, Australia. ---------------------------------------------- Robert Sterry 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 Email: [email protected]

A few weeks ago there were a couple of messages concerning Lovelocks from Shipton Moyne, so I thought that the following record for Brokenborough Wilts from the 1881 census might be of interest: Dwelling: Brokenborough Farm Census Place: Brokenborough, Wiltshire, England Source: FHL Film 1341489 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2027 Folio 79 Page 6 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Thomas LOVELOCK M 40 M Shipton Moyne, Wiltshire, England Rel: Lodger (Head) Occ: Agr Labr Sarah LOVELOCK M 37 F Shipton Moyne, Wiltshire, England Rel: Wife Occ: Agr Labr Wife Elizabeth LOVELOCK 5 F Shipton Moyne, Wiltshire, England Rel: Daur William LOVELOCK 1 M Shipton Moyne, Wiltshire, England Rel: Son James

I'd just like to comment on the following paragraph in Robert's recent message: Robert Sterry wrote: >We don't appear to have any other entries for the 1871 census for Wiltshire. >Does anyone? If they would be of value as an addition to our Wiltshire >resources, I could be talkied into extracting them from the Ancestry.co.uk >site next time I'm down at SAG (Society of Australian Genealogists). > In fact we do have a collection of Lovelock extracts from the 1871 census on the Web site at: http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/documents/1871-wilts.htm (linked to the Wiltshire Records page) However, Graham Lovelock (who provided these records) informs me that these extracts are by no means complete. So if anyone has access to the 1871 census and would like to add to the collection, it would be more than welcome! James

Dear Robert, Thank you for your offer of help. Wouldnt it be great if we could tie in a common ancestor, John Lovelock b Westcote in the parish of Sparshot where he appears in the 1851 census. Wife Harriet born in Denchworth. Does this tie in with anything in your family. Presumably we would have to research records for Sparshot to find his parentage. He is in the 1841 census in Childrey Wantage Reg District. All on our web page. This family seems to keep moving between Berks and Wilts so Im not sure where the roots are. My son has arrived home from Australia today, didnt know he was coming so a lovely suprise. Best Wishes Sian _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Dear Helen Thank you for this info. It will make the search for John Lovelocks baptism a lot easier. Sincerely Sian >From: "Helen Norton" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: John and James Lovelock >Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:07:09 +1000 > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > Searching for the baptism of his father abt 1808 in 'Westcote' is a >little > > tricky as Westcote is not a parish. In fact I'm not sure where Westcote, > > Berkshire is. > >Westcote is a hamlet in the parish of Sparsholt. > >Helen > > > >==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== >Lovelock family history Web pages: >http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

----- Original Message ----- > > Searching for the baptism of his father abt 1808 in 'Westcote' is a little > tricky as Westcote is not a parish. In fact I'm not sure where Westcote, > Berkshire is. Westcote is a hamlet in the parish of Sparsholt. Helen

Dear Robert, Thank you for your most informative letter. Michelle Lovelock now doesnt think that James is the James Frederick I thought because she has found him on the website in a census living with his family and his fathers name is James. James son of John and Harriet is listed as being born in Childrey but I understand now why I cannot find him. Strange John's birthplace Westcote doesnt seem to exist in Berkshire anymore but no doubt we will track him down. Unfortunately living so far way and working full time with four grown up children still living at home I will not be able to get up there for research in the near future so it will have to be put on hold till I either retire or the boys leave home. Thank you very much for explaining it, its seems a long time ago we met at Lovelocks Alive doesnt it. Sincerely Sian >From: "Robert Sterry" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: RE: John and James Lovelock >Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:53:03 +1000 > >Hi Sian > >I thought I'd explain a little more about why you can't find your relatives >on the Lovelocks (by parish) in Berkshire file and what you can do about >it. >At the same time it may be worth clarifying for other listers as well. > >This file represents a COMBINED summary of mainly baptism, marriage and >burial LOVELOCK information SO FAR researched - mostly by people carefully >scanning through an original parish register or at least a film or >microfiche of the register - by all Lovelock reseachers with whom we have >had contact. These files also include entries from other indexes, such as >the IGI or Boyd's Marriage Index, that have been referenced. > >NOT ALL PARISHES HAVE BEEN RESEARCHED. And certainly not all parishes have >been researched from the very earliest record to the most recent. > >This file was intended originally as a RESEARCH GUIDE so that you could see >what had already been researched and avoid duplication. The hope was that >people would then do FURTHER searching of parish registers and add to the >accumulated knowledge for that county. > >One should be cautious with all index entries as they are prone to errors >and omissions. Original parish records should always be referenced if at >all >possible. > >For example, Sian, you have found out that your James Frederick Lovelock >was >born in 'Childrey Wantage' Sep qtr 1838. I assume you have the birth >certificate which shows that he was born in the REGISTRATION DISTRICT of >Wantage. > >However, as you undoubtedly know, this does not tell us exactly what parish >he was BAPTISED in. The RD of Wantage includes the following the following >parishes Aldworth, Ardington, Beedon, Blewbury, Brightwalton, Catmore, >Chaddleworth, Charlton, Childrey, Chilton, Compton, Denchworth, East >Challow, East Hanney, East Hendred, East Ilsley, East Lockinge, >Farnborough, >Fawley, Goosey, Grove, Hampstead Norris, Harwell, Letcombe Bassett, >Letcombe >Regis, Peasemore, Sparsholt Upton, Wantage, West Challow, West Hanney, West >Hendred, West Ilsley, West Lockinge. > >Your James Frederick could have been baptised at any of them. However, >Childrey is of course the most likely. > >If you check what we have in the combined file for Lovelocks in Childrey, >you will see that baptisms for Childrey have only been searched up until >1812. > >Searching for the baptism of his father abt 1808 in 'Westcote' is a little >tricky as Westcote is not a parish. In fact I'm not sure where Westcote, >Berkshire is. I can't find it in my AA Atlas. The nearest I can see is >Westcott in Buckinghamshire. Possibly it used to be in Berkshire? We need >some local knowledge here. Any offers of help? > >At any rate, once you do determine the likely parish, use the combined >Berkshire vital records list to ascertain whether it has in fact been >searched for the appropriate years. If not, then perhaps you'd consider >doing some research yourself. If you can't get to the Berkshire Record >Office or SOG (who have a lot of parishes but check first), it has probably >been filmed by the Mormons and you can order in the film from your local >LDS >Family History Centre at a very reasonable cost. > >Hope this helps. > >Cheers from very pleasant and sunny Spring day at Kurrajong, Australia. > >Robert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sian davies [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Sunday, 3 October 2004 4:28 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: John and James Lovelock > > > > > > Dear Listers, > > > > Can anyone tied my tree into the Berkshire Lovelocks? I am > > unable to get > > into the tree on the website not having the software. > > > > > > James Frederick Lovelock born Sep qtr 1838 in Childrey > > Wantage parents John > > b around 1808 in Westcote Berks and Harriet b Denchworth > > Berks. James > > married Jane Brind in Sparshot on 15 April 1865. > > > > I am unable to find any bmd for John on the website. Perhaps > > I have missed > > something. > > > > Thanks > > > > Sian Davies formally Lovelock > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! > > http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger > > > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > >==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== >Lovelock family history Web pages: >http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > _________________________________________________________________ It's fast, it's easy and it's free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

In a recent message to the list, Robert Sterry wrote: >Morning all > >I have confirmation that John Lovelock, shoemaker, aged 33 in the 1851 >census who was baptised in Wootton Rivers in 1816 (son of Thomas Lovelock >and Catherine Haywood on the Lieflock line) and who died at Pewsey in 1881 >aged 64 also married Clara Stone. Here's the 1871 entry for 46 North Street, >Pewsey: > >John Lovelock, Head, 54, Cordwainer, born Wootton Rivers >Clara Lovelock, Wife, 51, Bonnet Maker, born Pewsey >Eliza Stone, Boarder, unmarried, 47, born Pewsey >Sarah Lovelock, Visitor, unmarried, 26, Servant, born Hull, Yorkshire >Alfred Stone, Visitor, unmarried, 25, Taylor, Melksham, Wiltshire > >John and Clara were married at Pewsey: >1857 Mar 31 John Lovelock of Wootton Rivers & Clara Stone > >They don't appear to have had any children. > >Clara was also buried at Pewsey: >1902 Jan 12 Clara Lovelock, aged 81 > >Eliza Stone was probably Clara's sister and Alfred possibly a nephew. > >But who the devil is Sarah Lovelock from Yorkshire? > Here's a possible answer to this question: Maurice Lovelock and Louisa Stone, who married at Pewsey on 26 Mar 1840, had 9 children, including Sarah Lovelock who, according to Graham, was bap. 26 Dec 1850 at Drypool, Hull, Yorks. The date doesn't fit the age (26) at the 1871 census, but this could be an error (maybe 21 instead of 26). Further evidence for this connection is that Sarah L married Tom (?) Styles at Pewsey 21 Jun 1871. Now in the 1891 census we have the following entry for River St. Pewsey: Clara Lovelock, Head, widow, age 71, Hatter and Straw Milliner, born Pewsey Kate Stiles, Niece, age 11, born Pewsey This could mean that Louisa Stone (wife of Maurice L) and Clara Lovelock, née Stone, were sisters - except that Kate Stiles/Styles would have to be a grand-niece rather than a niece, but in view of the age difference this is likely. James