the family mentioned living in a cottage in winterbourne bassett is related to me. Sarah Matilda Ann Lovelock was my great-grandmother.she married Thomas (Tom) Angell -railway labourer at GWR my grandmother moved to lancashire from swindon. she lived in beatrice street swindon with the family at a later date. her mother had more children after the census and my grandmother was one of them. the 1901 census shows the family living somewhere in swindon tom 35 sarah 30 emmelina 9 helena 8 gladys 2 cecil 1 gertrude 1m my great-grandmother had my grandmother in july 1910 regards lindsay

Hi Tony, This is interesting! I believe both William and Martha (Jane's parents) died before 1901. In fact it seems that Martha died before 1891 since she was not present at the 1891 census: Ty Fry East Margam William Loveluck age 40, widow, farmer Mary Loveluck age 12, dau. Thomas Loveluck age 9, son John Loveluck age 6, son Jane Loveluck age 3, dau. I have Martha died 1890 and WIlliam died 1891 Cornelly, Pyle & Kenfig (source Janet Hearle). Janet Hearle also had a younger daughter Gladys born after Jane (presumably after the 1891 census) married ? Cooker but I haven't found her on FreeBMD. It's strange that she wasn't with her elder brothers and sister with the Rchards family. I'm not sure what happened to the elder sister Mary, who would have been 22 at the 1901 census. Did she marry? Regards, James [email protected] wrote: >Extract from 1901 census >MARGAM -Glamorgan >Wern Farm > Head-David RICHARDS( 59) >Wife-Mary (56) >Son-David-(26) >Thomas LOVELUCK-nephew-age 18 > John LOVELUCK-nephew-age 16 > >JANE Loveluck >Age 13-Niece >All above born in MARGAM-and bi-lingual >It looks as if Jane (my grandmother) and her brothers were orphaned? and >living with the RICHARDS family.. >Tony Hooper > > >

Following up on that Ann Lovelock (bn abt 1851 dau of George L. and Eliza Fisher) who appears as a visitor in the 1881 at the home of her sister and husband Philip Winder and Charlotte nee Lovelock, I wondered where her husband was. However, I could not find any Henry Brewer without a wife in the 1881 census. So I wondered if he might have died by then. If so, their other children (besides Henry J Brewer who was already staying with his grandparents George L and Eliza nee Fisher) might also be staying with relatives. What happened to that William Lovelock, born just before they got married - and who had by now in all probability taken on the surname of Brewer. I thought this entry looked a possibility. The age is right and Burbage is pretty close to East Grafton. Dwelling: Berry Hill Farm Census Place: Cricklade St Sampson, Wiltshire, England Source: FHL Film 1341488 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2023 Folio 65 Page 12 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Isaac BREWER M 64 M Hilmarton, Wiltshire, England Rel: Head Occ: Agricultural Laborer Sarah BREWER M 66 F Hullavington, Wiltshire, England Rel: Wife Occ: Agricultural Laborers Wife John BREWER U 28 M Hilmarton, Wiltshire, England Rel: Son Occ: Agricultural Laborer Ann NEATE 14 F Slaughterford, Wiltshire, England Rel: Grand Daur William BREWER 11 M Burbage, Wiltshire, England Rel: Grand Son Occ: Scholar So I went looking for a Henry Brewer death between 1873 and 1881 in Wiltshire or London area on Free BMD, say aged abt 30-40. This one looked a possibility: Deaths Mar 1878 Brewer Henry James 35 Islington 1b 178 But there are too many Brewers to be sure. So I checked the IGI and found: Henry James Brewer Male Event(s): Birth: About 1845 Hilmarton, Wiltshire, England Christening: 24 JUL 1845 St Laurence, Hilmarton, Wiltshire, England Parents: Father: Isaac Brewer Family Mother: Sarah Hat Comments invited! Cheers Robert ---------------------------------------------- Robert Sterry 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 Email: [email protected]

Working on recent emails from Sue Lovelock and James Loveluck regarding two the George Lovelocks, one born 1837 and one born 1839, on Lyneham line. Thought it would be good to include others on the list on our discussions to date. Hopefully they may wish to contribute to the discussion. I've printed below the two lines from both Georges as I think is the most likely at this stage. This will bring the others up to date. Bear in mind that some of the GRO links are tenuous as we only have the index information. But the info matches what we have on the 1871 and 1881 census. Descendants of George Lovelock 1 George Lovelock b: Abt. 1837 in Lyneham, Wiltshire, England Baptism: 1 October 1837 Lyneham, Wiltshire, England . + Martha Goff b: Abt. 1836 in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England m: 1857 in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Emma Lovelock b: Abt. 1856 in Hook, Wiltshire, England Baptism: 16 December 1856 Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England ..... + Frank Davis b: Abt. 1855 in Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England m: 18 June 1876 in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England Occupation: 1881 Ag Lab ....... 3 Eliza Davis b: Abt. 1879 in Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England ....... 3 Rosa E Davis b: Abt. 1881 in Broad Hinton, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Eliza Lovelock b: Abt. 1859 d: 1944 Baptism: 7 March 1859 Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England ..... + John Reeves b: 1860 d: 1927 ... 2 Mary Jane Lovelock b: Abt. 1861 Baptism: 11 August 1861 Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England ... 2 George Jacob Lovelock b: Abt. 1865 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England d: 1867 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Sarah Lovelock b: Abt. 1867 ... 2 Emily Lovelock b: Abt. 1869 in Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England ... 2 George William Lovelock b: Abt. 1871 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England d: 1871 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, Engl ... 2 Fanny Lovelock b: Abt. 1873 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England d: 1874 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Thomas Lovelock b: Abt. 1875 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Henry James Lovelock b: Abt. 1877 d: 1877 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Levi Lovelock b: Abt. 1879 d: 1879 in Cricklade RD, Wiltshire, England Descendants of George Lovelock 1 George Lovelock b: Abt. 1839 in Corston/Burnett, Somerset, England . + Mary Comley b: Abt. 1840 in Thornhill, Wiltshire, England m: 11 February 1860 in Lyneham, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Ann Lovelock b: Abt. 1861 in Littlecott, Wiltshire, England Baptism: 6 January 1861 Lyneham, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Jane Lovelock b: Abt. 1862 in Littlecott, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Daniel Lovelock b: Abt. 1864 in Thornhill, Wiltshire, England ... 2 George Lovelock b: Abt. 1865 in Thornhill, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Fanny Lovelock b: Abt. 1865 in Elcombe, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Emily Lovelock b: Abt. 1868 in Clyffe Pypard, Wiltshire, England ... 2 Sarah Lovelock b: Abt. 1870 in Winterbourne Bassett, Wiltshire, England Sue has recently supplied a response from Alan Gibbs. The 1871 census for the top family (supplied by Alan - see below) supports the view that George Jacob L bn 1865 died before 1871. But Eliza should have been there aged 12. But she appears again aged 22 in the 1881 census. So she must just have been visiting somewhere else in 1871. Ann aged 6 so born abt 1865 reopens the question of whether they also had an Anne in the family - but presumeably not the one born in 1861 and baptised at Lyneham. So I went looking on Free BMD. The only one likely was: Births Dec 1865 Lovelock Ann Devizes 5a 80 I wonder if Alan noted the place of birth of that Anne aged 6 in the 1871 census? 1871 Census (as supplied by Alan Gibbs) Flaxlands Lidiard Tregoze George Lovelock, Head Martha Lovelock, Wife Emma Lovelock, Dau, 14 Mary Lovelock, Dau, 9 Anne Lovelock, Dau, 6 Sarah Lovelock, Dau, 3 Emily Lovelock, Dau, 1 1881 census Dwelling: Flaxlands Cottages Census Place: Liddiard Tregooze, Wiltshire, England Source: FHL Film 1341488 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 2021 Folio 84 Page 14 Marr Age Sex Birthplace George LOVELOCK M 45 M Lyneham, Wiltshire, England Rel:Head Occ: Agricultural Labourer Martha LOVELOCK M 45 F Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England Rel: Wife Eliza LOVELOCK U 22 F Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England Rel: Daur Mary LOVELOCK U 19 F Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England Rel: Daur Emily LOVELOCK 11 F Lydiard Tregoze, Wiltshire, England Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar 1871 Census Winterbourn Bassett The Village George Lovelock, Head, 32, Ag Lab, Burnett, Somersetshire Mary Lovelock, Wife, 31, Thornhill, Wiltshire Ann Lovelock, Daur, 10, Littlecot, Wiltshire Jane Lovelock, Daur, 9, Thornhill, Wiltshire Daniel Lovelock, Son, 7, Thornhill, Wiltshire George Lovelock, Son, 6, Thornhill, Wiltshire Fanny Lovelock, Daur, 6, Elcomb, Wiltshire Emily Lovelock, Daur, 3, Cliff Pypard, Wiltshire Sarah Lovelock, Daur, 1, Winterbourn Bassett, Wiltshire Alan also notes that he found a baptism in 1875 (in Lydiard Tregoze?) of a Jess Lovelock with parents George and Martha. Not sure about that one? In his email, Alan also refers to a Hannah Lovelock bn 1863 who married Henry Fortune and then Henry Gibbs. Sounds like this is another daughter of George Lovelock and Martha Goff. Is it? Alan also refers to the 1861 census for Littlecott: George Lovelock, 23 Ann Lovelock, 20 Ann Lovelock, dau, 5mo Alan says the wife was definitely Ann NOT Mary. This is clearly the first family above. So there's an error somewhere, possibly in the census. Any further thoughts? Robert ---------------------------------------------- Robert Sterry 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 Email: [email protected]

Extract from 1901 census MARGAM -Glamorgan Wern Farm Head-David RICHARDS( 59) Wife-Mary (56) Son-David-(26) Thomas LOVELUCK-nephew-age 18 John LOVELUCK-nephew-age 16 JANE Loveluck Age 13-Niece All above born in MARGAM-and bi-lingual It looks as if Jane (my grandmother) and her brothers were orphaned? and living with the RICHARDS family.. Tony Hooper

Hello all, I've added two new trees to the "Miscellaneous Lovelock Trees and Fragments": - A Tree for Thomas Lovelock of Shaw, Berks. submitted by John Lewis - Descendants of Noah Lovelock (b. Abt. 1701, Hants.) submitted by Roger and Mary Perry For the latter, Roger and Mary also provided a gedcom file which is available for anyone who is interested. I believe that there are at least 3 listers who connect to this tree, which includes Lovelocks in Hartley Wintney, Hants! Many thanks to John, Roger & Mary for their contributions. James

Hello all, Graham Lovelock kindly provided me with an improved scanned image of the Family History Magazine report on the Lovelock Alive 2004 gathering, which I have now uploaded to the Web site at: http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/gathering/la04-fhm-bit.jpg (linked to the "Lovelock Gathering" page) Regards, James

I got this MI this morning in Compton Bassett (en-route from Exeter to London) I don't see it already on the website so am posting it here. Apologies if I am repeating something that is to be found already elsewhere. Found in St Swithin's Churchyard (Parish Church of Compton Bassett) To the memory of Thomas Lovelock who died August 28 1839 Aged 65 years Also Bridget his wife who died July 10 1841 Aged 75 years. Regards, Chris

I've already entered the Nevada tree into my version of the Lyneham tree. However, there's lots more research possible on this line - as Chris observed. I'm just waiting for someone to take up the challenge!! I rechecked some of the Australian stuff but most seems ok. The Victorian Registry Office: http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/CA256C7100199CBE/page/Births+Deaths+and+Mar riages+Online+Shop-Births+Deaths+and+Marriages+Online+Shop?OpenDocument&1=0- Births+Deaths+and+Marriages+Online+Shop~&2=0-Births+Deaths+and+Marriages+Onl ine+Shop~&3=~ (what an address!) now also has it's indexes on line - except not free like New South Wales. A99c to view the index and A$17.50 for an email copy of the full record! Cheers Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: James Loveluck [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2004 9:34 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Miscellaneous fragments cleanup > > > PS I also corrected the name of the (first) wife of Daniel > Lovelock at > the head of the Nevada Lovelock Line from Jane Roberts to Jane Rees, > following the correspondence with Chris Knight, Richard Dowd and Jack > Lovelock on the list. However, those who have been following > this story > will be aware that this fragment is likely to be absorbed into the > Lyneham Line! > > James > > James Loveluck wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > Robert Sterry pointed out that the "Wallingford, Berks., Croydon, > > Kent, and New Zealand fragment", in the collection of Miscellaneous > > Lovelock Trees and Fragments, is already part of the Berkshire > > Lovelock Line, so I have removed it from the collection. > > > > James > > > > > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > > Lovelock family history Web pages: > > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > > > ============================== > > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records > added in the > > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > > > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only > for ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx >

PS I also corrected the name of the (first) wife of Daniel Lovelock at the head of the Nevada Lovelock Line from Jane Roberts to Jane Rees, following the correspondence with Chris Knight, Richard Dowd and Jack Lovelock on the list. However, those who have been following this story will be aware that this fragment is likely to be absorbed into the Lyneham Line! James James Loveluck wrote: > Hello all, > > Robert Sterry pointed out that the "Wallingford, Berks., Croydon, > Kent, and New Zealand fragment", in the collection of Miscellaneous > Lovelock Trees and Fragments, is already part of the Berkshire > Lovelock Line, so I have removed it from the collection. > > James > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > >

Hello all, Robert Sterry pointed out that the "Wallingford, Berks., Croydon, Kent, and New Zealand fragment", in the collection of Miscellaneous Lovelock Trees and Fragments, is already part of the Berkshire Lovelock Line, so I have removed it from the collection. James

Hello List, Here are two later deaths at St.Mary`s. Swansea, Who can claim. [ James perhaps ] Edmund Loveluck buried 7th.Feb. 1907 died Exeter aged 58 years. Laura Matilda Loveluck buried 29th.Jan. 1880 High St. Swansea. aged 48 years. Regards Allen. __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

Just a P.S. to the e-mail I just sent. Iwas interested in the information about Georges wedding in Flintshire. Years ago when I lived in Battersea I knew a man called Jessett who frequently told me that we were related but I never took any notice I wonder if this was the connection. Jean Gilmore

Hi Robert Hope the information is useful. Perhaps you would like the following. Jane Partridge died inJune 1927. She is buried in Magdalen Road Cemetery Wandsworth.I own the deeds to her grave.Her son Thomas died in April 1953 he is buried with his mother.Keziah died in July 1953 and is buried with her husband in a grave nearby.Emma, my grandmother , died in December 1956 and is buried with her husband not far from the others.I dont know what happened to George and Edith or though the last time I saw Edith she was living in Fulham her surname was White. Jean Gilmore

I couldn't agree more Sue. It's a great time to focus some energy on the Nevada Lovelock line. In fact, the version that's on the Lovelock site is pretty much as Gwen Eastment gave it to me years ago. I suspect that between you all, you'll have some additional info to add. And yes - worth checking what's now available on-line that certainly wasn't there fifteen years ago. A very suitable challenge. Any takers? Best to all Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Lovelock [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2004 6:40 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Daniel Lovelock from Compton Bassett > > > I've only just about caught up with the flurry of emails > about Daniel. Chris, as soon as I saw your first note I just > knew it was a missing brother of my husband's direct ancestor > George Lovelock. I had been wondering for years what had > happened to George's brothers, as I found data about only one > of them (Thomas, born abt 1775, who stayed in the parish, > married and was buried there - he too was a gardener, > interestingly). So to have found Daniel was exciting enough, > but to now have the link to Lovelock in Nevada is just amazing! > > I haven't done a serious look for John (born abt 1772-3) > Stephen (1778) or Jacob (1786) recently, so with all the > information which has been made available on-line, perhaps > that will now be a challenge. > > Best regards > Sue > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. > New content added every business day. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx >

Since finding Daniel Lovelock I have been spending a fair bit of time trying to find out more about him and his offspring. The 1861 census makes it pretty clear that Daniel was the head Gardener at Chillington Hall - a stately pile owned by the Giffard family and open to the public nowadays. They have a web site at http://www.chillingtonhall.co.uk/ where you will see the gardens/park were pretty big (1100 plus acres even today) and that they were originally done by Capability Brown.. I am sure there is a lot more to learn about Daniel and next year as soon as the Hall opens, I shall be there D.V. Daniel's son George Lovelock has turned into the most fascinating character. I have found a lot on Ancestry in the Nevada Daily State Journal that fortunately includes his obituary. His story is one of (several) fortunes in mining, shipwrecks en-route to Australia - which killed an un-named daughter, Pirates, the murder of his son Daniel by a jealous husband and endless selling of mines, some at $100,000 each (and this in the 1880s!), another early death of a son by malarial fever (George, died 24 Aug 1893 in Lovelock, Nevada). A second wife - Mrs Evans, no other names yet - drowned whilst fishing in a creek a few years after they were married. Apologies to all who know this stuff already, I have only just joined this list and am totally out of touch with whatever has gone before! If anyone has stuff, please do let me know. If anyone wants stuff I have found, also please let me know. Chris P.S. Ancestry seems to be choking on its USA censuses at the moment and serving me up wrong pages or no pages at all for things it says it has - rather tantalising, I hope it's temporary.

Good stuff Allen! We had the burials in the Lovelocks in Glamorgan file (recent contributions from Robert from the NBI) but not the marriage or the baptisms. Where did you find them? One interesting possibility is that this John Lovelock was the one bap. 2 Jan 1773 at Cherhill, another son of Thomas Lovelock and Jane Bratfield, a brother of Daniel L the gardner. It seems like a tradition of migration to Glamorgan was established for this family, since of course Thomas George Lovelock (bap 14 Apr 1833 at Lyneham) a grandson of Thomas & Jane, son of George, also migrated to Glamorgan. Could it be that my Glamorgan Lovelucks were the forerunners of this tradition? One of my candidates for the progenitor of my Glamorgan Lovelucks is John Lovelock bap 5 Apr 1738 at Wroughton, who also belongs to the Lyneham line. As far as I'm aware we don't have a marriage or burial for him in Wilts. James Allen Blethyn wrote: >Hello List, >Having been following your facts on Daniel Lovelock at Oystermouth,. >Now I want you to consider the other following family there. >John Lovelock born about 1771 place unknown. married to a Mary, no marriage in Glam?. >Had following children. >Rachel christened Oystermouth 17th.Aug.1806 aged 3 weeks. >Buried Oystermouth 23rd. Sept. 1827. aged 21 years. Blackpill. > >George christened Oystermouth 18th.April.1808. aged 3 weeks. >Buried Oystermouth 21st.Feb.1809. > >John christened Oystermouth. 5th.Aug.1810 aged 2 weeks. >Buried Oystermouth. 17th.March.1811. > >Mary christened Oystermouth. 14th.June.1812.aged 3 weeks. >Buried Oystermouth.14th.Sept.1815. aged 3 years. Blackpill. > >MI. Oystermouth. >In Memory of Harriet daughter of John and Mary Lovelock of Blackpill. >who entered unto her rest after- - - - ? died March 1821. aged 16 years. > >MI. St. Thomas Neath. >In Memory of >John Lovelock >who died June 28th. 1837. aged 66 years. >He lived 26 years as Bailiff with Gnr. Warde of Woodland Castle in this county. > >In the same grave lies his widow Mary died Jan.17th.1840.aged 74 years. > >[ Woodlands Castle later named Clyne Castle, and very near Blackpill.] > >The marriage of Daniel Lovelock bach. of this parish and Jane Rees spin. of this parish. Oystermouth. 4th.Jan.1816. >Daniel had to make his mark X. Jane signed the register in the presence of Philip Rogers and Augusta Lambourn. > >Best Regards Allen >Allen in Aberavon > > > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > >==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== >Lovelock family history Web pages: >http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > >============================== >Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. >New content added every business day. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx > > > > >

Most interesting Jean. What was their address in the 1891 census? When you say 'Thomas,Charlotte, Jane and Charles were all living very close to each other' are you referring to Lovelocks or Winders? More detail would be greatly appreciated and might explain why they moved to Battersea. It will probably turn out they had relatives living there. Who else was living at Henley St, Battersea? When did Philip Winder, Charlotte's husband die? Hear from you soon Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Gilmore [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Sunday, 7 November 2004 2:00 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: winders > > > I found four children on 1891 maybe Alice was > away from home. They were Mark Annie George and > Frank.What I would like to know is what took them > all to Battersea?Thomas,Charlotte , Jane and Charles > were all living very close to each other.Jane > and Charlotte were next door to each other.On > the death of her husband Charlotte moved to Henley > Street Battersea and her children were living > there for sometime.Funnily enough I myself moved > into Henley Street with my parents in 1939 Jean Gilmore > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > New! OneWorldTree. Building Trees. Connecting Families. Learn > more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13970/rd.ashx >

Greetings Graham and All Ignore previous post. I accidentally pressed the 'send' button before I'd finished. Thanks very much for the additional info. Graham. I decided to also check FreeBMD for that Lovelock-Winder marriage and came across this unexpected find: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Jun 1896 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Curtis Alfred Kensington 1a 210 Lovelock Charlotte Kensington 1a 210 Treble Kate Kensington 1a 210 Winder Philip Kensington 1a 210 What do you make of that? I wondered if in fact they had married previously in perhaps some non-conformist church and then later married in the C of E for some reason. I checked Ancestral Trails for any such precedents at this time. But the requirement for Catholics and Protestant dissenters to be married in the Anglican church (as well as their own if they wished to be legal) ended in 1837. If they weren't legally married, this might of course effect inheritance rights. Perhaps they really didn't marry until 1896??? However, regarding the visitor Ann Brewer, I checked FreeBMD to see if an Ann Lovelock had in fact ever married a BREWER and found one match: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Dec 1871 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Brewer Henry Reading 2c 814 Gould George Reading 2c 814 Lovelock Ann Reading 2c 814 Wright Martha Reading 2c 814 What do you think? Ann's age and place of birth is right in the 1881 census extract and the date is spot on for a 'shotgun' marriage as Ann has her illegitimate son William abt June of the same year! And Reading's far enough away from home to save any family embarrassment. I also checked for any likely marriages for their sister Elizabeth. The most likely was: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Mar 1870 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Gerard Thomas Bowen Kensington 1a 60 Lovelock Elizabeth Kensington 1a 60 REVELL Charles Arthur Kensington 1a 60 YOUNG Clara Kensington 1a 60 Then searched 1881 for an Elizabeth REVELL or GERARD born abt 1849 West Grafton. Bingo!!! Dwelling: 352 Portobello Rd Census Place: Kensington, London, Middlesex, England Source: FHL Film 1341009 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0038 Folio 127 Page 7 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Charles REVELL M 30 M Hammersmith, Middlesex, England Rel: Head Occ: Boot Maker Elizabeth REVELL M 32 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, England Rel: Wife Occ: Boot Maker Charles G. REVELL 10 M West Grafton, Wiltshire, England Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Arthur W REVELL 8 M Hammersmith, Middlesex, England Rel: Son Occ: Scholar Elizabeth A. REVELL 7 F Battersea, Surrey, England Rel: Daur Occ: Scholar Sydney A. REVELL 3 M Kensington, Middlesex, England Rel: Son Charles REVELL M 84 M London St Martin In Fields , Middlesex, England Rel: Father Occ: No Occupation Martha REVELL M 69 F Hammersmith, Middlesex, England Rel: Mother Occ: No Occupation But still no sign of that elusive illegitimate Sarah Ann Lovelock. Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2004 10:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sarah Ann bn abt 1865 West Grafton, or rather > her sister Charlotte > > > > Robert, and all > > The 1881 family below is the correct one. I suspect that the > visitor Ann > Brewer is Elizabeth's sister. > > Some of the information I have is based on correspondence > from over 2 years > ago, and is not accessible from this machine. Remind me to > check whether it > is still on my other piano. > > I suspect that Charlotte and Philip married in the Lambeth RD > in the March > quarter of 1874. Certainly a Charlotte did, as you will find > on FreeBMD, but > for once there are only three names recorded for the Register > page. The 1874 > images are not available yet, so can't get any further with that. > > The first of the other two children of the couple that I know > of is a Henry > George, born in the June quarter of 1884 in the Wandsworth > RD, who married > at in the Holywell, Flintshire RD (Malcolm's neck of the > woods) a Rosa Maud > Mary Jessett on 21 Aug 1909. Curiously Rosa was born in > Wandsworth as well, > so I wonder what took them to Flintshire? Charlotte died in > the Holywell RD > in the June quarter of 1920, so had presumably gone to live > with George and > Rosa. > > The fifth child of Charlotte and Philip was Francis, aged 14 > in 1901 and > born in Battersea (but not in FreeBMD). > > With respect to Sarah Ann, Free BMD has no death of a Sarah > Ann Peck that > would explain her absence from the 1901, nor of a Sarah Ann > Powell in the > Hungerford RD. However (RED HERRING WARNING !!!) by > coincidence I did note > the death of a Sarah Ann Pwell in the Holywell RD in June > quarter of 1886 > aged 21.......... > > Your move ......... > > Regards > > Graham > > > > From: "Robert Sterry" <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:03:46 +1100 > > Greetings all > > I found the recent exchange on this illegitimate daughter of > George Lovelock and Eliza Fisher most interesting. > > I had also wondered which of George's daughter's she belonged to? > > I was interested in Graham's comment that George's daughter > Elizabeth married Philip Winder and finished up in London. I > did not have this detail > - just the name of her husband. I checked the 1881. I assume > this is Elizabeth and Philip Winder: > > Dwelling: 1 Milson Place > Census Place: Lambeth, Surrey, England > Source: FHL Film 1341139 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0606 > Folio 141 > Page 47 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Philip WINDER M 42 M Sussex, England > Rel: Head > Occ: Labourer > Charlotte WINDER M 35 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, > England > Rel: Wife > Alice WINDER 7 F St Georges In The East > Rel: Dau > Mark WINDER 4 M Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Son > Annie WINDER 2 m F Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Dau > Ann BREWER 30 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, England > Rel: Visitor > > However, Graham says they had 5 children and that only > accounts for three of them. Graham, could I possibly have the > marriage detail of Elizabeth Lovelock and Philip Winder and > the details on their other two children please? Many thanks. > > I also checked the 1881 for Sarah Ann Lovelock. But had no > more success than Graham. Perhaps she gave a false place of > birth? I found the marriage of Sarah Ann at Hungerford RD in > 1886 that Graham refers to in the FreeBMD. This gave two > possible husbands: James Peck or Joseph Powell. But a search > of the 1901 census for either a Sarah Peck or Powell produced > no result. > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > Robert Sterry > 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills > NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA > Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 > Email: [email protected] > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your > ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with cool new emoticons > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple > ports ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to > view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx >

Greetings Graham and All Thanks very much for the additional info. Graham. I decided to also check FreeBMD for that Lovelock-Winder marriage and came across this unexpected find: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Jun 1896 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Curtis Alfred Kensington 1a 210 Lovelock Charlotte Kensington 1a 210 Treble Kate Kensington 1a 210 Winder Philip Kensington 1a 210 What do you make of that? I wondered if in fact they had married previously in perhaps some non-conformist church and then later married in the C of E for some reason. I checked Ancestral Trails for any such precedents at this time. But the requirement for Catholics and Protestant dissenters to be married in the Anglican church (as well as their own if they wished to be legal) ended in 1837. If they weren't legally married, this might of course effect inheritance rights. Perhaps they really didn't marry until 1896??? However, regarding the visitor Ann Brewer, I checked FreeBMD to see if an Ann Lovelock had in fact ever married a BREWER and found one match: Surname First name(s) District Vol Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Marriages Dec 1871 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Brewer Henry Reading 2c 814 Gould George Reading 2c 814 Lovelock Ann Reading 2c 814 Wright Martha Reading 2c 814 What do you think? Ann's age and place of birth is right in the 1881 census extract and the date is spot on for a 'shotgun' marriage as Ann has her illegitimate son William abt June of the same year! And Reading's far enough away from home to save any family embarrassment. I also checked for any likely marriages for their sister Elizabeth. The most likley was: Robert > -----Original Message----- > From: Graham Lovelock [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2004 10:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Sarah Ann bn abt 1865 West Grafton, or rather > her sister Charlotte > > > > Robert, and all > > The 1881 family below is the correct one. I suspect that the > visitor Ann > Brewer is Elizabeth's sister. > > Some of the information I have is based on correspondence > from over 2 years > ago, and is not accessible from this machine. Remind me to > check whether it > is still on my other piano. > > I suspect that Charlotte and Philip married in the Lambeth RD > in the March > quarter of 1874. Certainly a Charlotte did, as you will find > on FreeBMD, but > for once there are only three names recorded for the Register > page. The 1874 > images are not available yet, so can't get any further with that. > > The first of the other two children of the couple that I know > of is a Henry > George, born in the June quarter of 1884 in the Wandsworth > RD, who married > at in the Holywell, Flintshire RD (Malcolm's neck of the > woods) a Rosa Maud > Mary Jessett on 21 Aug 1909. Curiously Rosa was born in > Wandsworth as well, > so I wonder what took them to Flintshire? Charlotte died in > the Holywell RD > in the June quarter of 1920, so had presumably gone to live > with George and > Rosa. > > The fifth child of Charlotte and Philip was Francis, aged 14 > in 1901 and > born in Battersea (but not in FreeBMD). > > With respect to Sarah Ann, Free BMD has no death of a Sarah > Ann Peck that > would explain her absence from the 1901, nor of a Sarah Ann > Powell in the > Hungerford RD. However (RED HERRING WARNING !!!) by > coincidence I did note > the death of a Sarah Ann Pwell in the Holywell RD in June > quarter of 1886 > aged 21.......... > > Your move ......... > > Regards > > Graham > > > > From: "Robert Sterry" <[email protected]> > Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:03:46 +1100 > > Greetings all > > I found the recent exchange on this illegitimate daughter of > George Lovelock and Eliza Fisher most interesting. > > I had also wondered which of George's daughter's she belonged to? > > I was interested in Graham's comment that George's daughter > Elizabeth married Philip Winder and finished up in London. I > did not have this detail > - just the name of her husband. I checked the 1881. I assume > this is Elizabeth and Philip Winder: > > Dwelling: 1 Milson Place > Census Place: Lambeth, Surrey, England > Source: FHL Film 1341139 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 0606 > Folio 141 > Page 47 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Philip WINDER M 42 M Sussex, England > Rel: Head > Occ: Labourer > Charlotte WINDER M 35 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, > England > Rel: Wife > Alice WINDER 7 F St Georges In The East > Rel: Dau > Mark WINDER 4 M Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Son > Annie WINDER 2 m F Canning Town W Ham > Rel: Dau > Ann BREWER 30 F West Grafton, Wiltshire, England > Rel: Visitor > > However, Graham says they had 5 children and that only > accounts for three of them. Graham, could I possibly have the > marriage detail of Elizabeth Lovelock and Philip Winder and > the details on their other two children please? Many thanks. > > I also checked the 1881 for Sarah Ann Lovelock. But had no > more success than Graham. Perhaps she gave a false place of > birth? I found the marriage of Sarah Ann at Hungerford RD in > 1886 that Graham refers to in the FreeBMD. This gave two > possible husbands: James Peck or Joseph Powell. But a search > of the 1901 census for either a Sarah Peck or Powell produced > no result. > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > Robert Sterry > 9 Baileys Lane, Kurrajong Hills > NSW 2758 AUSTRALIA > Ph: (61)0245 731805 FAX: (61) 0245731022 > Email: [email protected] > > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your > ancestors, find marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with cool new emoticons > http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo > > > ==== LOVELOCK Mailing List ==== > Lovelock family history Web pages: > http://perso.numericable.fr/~lovjames/family-history/lovelock/ > > ============================== > Search our Immigration Records and view names from multiple > ports ranging from 1500s - 1900s. Over 23 million records to > view. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13967/rd.ashx >