Here is another version of the Chart where I have taken the threshold down to 4cM/400SNP. By the way, Annette Johnson is not a Loveless, she is descended from a brother of Mary and Linna Hughes. Kit Name A898171 M727087 A002304 F173637 T962971 F348750 F348749 M625561 F348748 A237945 A898171 Robert Lynn Cates - 515.5 13.1 4.5 45.6 None None 14.6 4.3 13.5 M727087 Thomas Cates 515.5 - 7.0 None None 23.4 13.2 23.8 16.7 13.0 A002304 Hattie Bell Russell 13.1 7.0 - 24.7 38.9 27.3 42.9 9.5 9.4 9.0 F173637 Pansy Louise Lancaster Johnston 4.5 None 24.7 - None 25.8 35.3 8.9 8.1 None T962971 Jeb Loveless 45.6 None 38.9 None - 17.5 21.7 12.5 12.8 8.9 F348750 *BML None 23.4 27.3 25.8 17.5 - 3587.1 8.5 104.0 4.4 F348749 *Janee None 13.2 42.9 35.3 21.7 3587.1 - 41.1 1015.4 10.3 M625561 Patricia Shadoin-Ford 14.6 23.8 9.5 8.9 12.5 8.5 41.1 - 29.0 13.8 F348748 *JWC, Jr 4.3 16.7 9.4 8.1 12.8 104.0 1015.4 29.0 - 8.8 A237945 Annette Johnson 13.5 13.0 9.0 None 8.9 4.4 10.3 13.8 8.8 - On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 8:03 AM, Lenny Darnell <lrdarnell@gmail.com> wrote: > This matrix shows the number of cM of matching segments over 5cM for a > number of people who are or may be descended from JTL/LH. You can see > BML, Janee and her cousin JWC, Jr. are closely related. And you can see > that Tom and Bob are 1c1r. Bob Cates and Jeb show a big relationship. > Tom has smaller relationships but with more of the group. > > Kit name A898171 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A898171> > M727087 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=M727087> A002304 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A002304> F173637 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F173637> T962971 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=T962971> F348750 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348750> F348749 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348749> M625561 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=M625561> F348748 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348748> A237945 > <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A237945> > A898171 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A898171> Robert > Lynn Cates 504.0 37.5 5.0 > M727087 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=M727087> Thomas > Cates 504.0 7.0 16.9 13.2 13.0 7.1 8.3 > A002304 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A002304> Hattie > Bell Russell 7.0 19.5 30.3 18.5 24.7 5.4 > F173637 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F173637> Pansy > Louise Lancaster Johnston 19.5 20.9 28.8 > T962971 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=T962971> Jeb > Loveless 37.5 30.3 12.9 12.1 > F348750 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348750> *BML 16.9 > 18.5 20.9 12.9 3587.1 98.1 > F348749 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348749> *Janee > 13.2 24.7 28.8 12.1 3587.1 32.6 1007.0 > M625561 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=M625561> Patricia > Shadoin-Ford 5.0 13.0 5.4 32.6 11.1 > F348748 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=F348748> *JWC, Jr > 7.1 98.1 1007.0 11.1 > A237945 <https://www.gedmatch.com/r-list2.php?kit_num=A237945> Annette > Johnson 8.3 > I am not sure if this chart will come through intact on the list serve or > not, let me know. The best way to demonstrate our findings is with some > graphics. > > Lenny > > On Thu, Jun 30, 2016 at 7:45 AM, Lenny Darnell <lrdarnell@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Jeb >> >> Never too long. Thanks for the details. I'm hoping that if we can >> collect enough GedMatch kits of people who suspect the Newberry five as >> their origin, we can start to show some patterns. >> >> BTW, Tom's closest Y match is Bill Loveless and his daughter Jane was the >> first Loveless I was in contact with and she really helped me out. A good >> set of cousins we have :-) >> >> Lenny >> >> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Jeb Loveless <jebloveless@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Lenny, >>> >>> I'm glad you asked that question. I am relatively sure I descend from >>> James (Thomas?) Loveless and Linna Hughes. Becoming more sure of that fact >>> drives most of my interest in the DNA results. >>> >>> My descent from James (Thomas?) depends on whether my >>> great-great-grandfather William Loveless (b.1834 SC - d.1888 TX) is the >>> same person listed as Williamson Loveless, the son of John Harrison >>> Loveless and Clarissa Williamson, in the 1850 Census for Laurens, SC and in >>> the will and probate papers for Clarissa's estate in Alabama. (Her will was >>> also probated in Laurens, SC.) >>> >>> I believe they are the same person because: >>> 1. My g-g-grandfather's age and birth state in census records match >>> those of Williamson; >>> 2. Clarissa's probate papers listed Williamson's location in November >>> 1856 as being in Dallas, Texas, and William is documented to be in the >>> Dallas, Texas area from his 1859 marriage until his death in 1888; >>> 3. I can find no other likely candidates in South Carolina to be my >>> g-g-grandfather William; and >>> 4. The names Williamson and William are not completely different. >>> >>> But Jack has pointed out my Y-DNA test puts me out of the main Maryland >>> group to which we have assigned James (Thomas?) Loveless. That's not a >>> game-ender, though, because it's possible the key deviant marker in my >>> Y-DNA test is a mutation in a generation after James (Thomas?). Maybe the >>> autosomal DNA will show I really am a descendant of James (Thomas?) and not >>> some other Loveless ancestor. That would strengthen my theory that >>> Williamson = William. >>> >>> On FTDNA, my autosomal DNA matches show I'm a 4th cousin of Bill >>> Loveless, whose GEDCOM says he is a descendant of James (Thomas?) and whose >>> results are administered by his daughter Jane Elliott, a member of this >>> list. And Bill and I are separated by 4 markers on the 67-marker Y-DNA >>> test. If Williamson = William, then I actually would be a 4th cousin once >>> removed of Bill's. But maybe I need a third matching autosomal DNA result >>> to make that connection solid. >>> >>> Sorry to give such a long answer, but my fascination with my own >>> genealogy is deep, and who else can I talk to about it? Ha, ha. >>> >>> >>> Jeb Loveless >>> Arlington, Texas >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Lenny Darnell via < >>> lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> Do you, Jeb Lovelace and Terri Davis all descend from JT Loveless 1771 >>>> and >>>> Linna Hughes? If not, then who? >>>> >>>> Lenny >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Lenny Darnell <lrdarnell@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > The spreadsheet would also need oldest proven Loveless Ancestor on the >>>> > list. We have to realize that at every generation up the tree the >>>> > autosomal DNA may come from a wife rather than the Loveless man. >>>> But it >>>> > would be solid in the Loveless line from the couple down. >>>> > >>>> > Do we also want to collect segments that are triangulated up the tree >>>> on >>>> > wives line? For instance, I have a match between Tom and a person who >>>> > descends from a brother of Mary and Linna Hughes. They have no >>>> Loveless in >>>> > their line, but the data is meaningful to others who descend through >>>> Isaac >>>> > and James. >>>> > >>>> > L >>>> > >>>> > On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:58 PM, Lenny Darnell <lrdarnell@gmail.com> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> Paul, >>>> >> >>>> >> That is really good - you would need one for each person. I think >>>> I'll >>>> >> create one for Tom and one for Bob as the GedMatch kit #s are >>>> reported here. >>>> >> >>>> >> I am not sure what Greg will want as a way of tracking everyone, but >>>> I >>>> >> could see a spreadsheet with >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> - Kit 1 >>>> >> - Name 1 >>>> >> - Kit 2 >>>> >> - Name 2 >>>> >> - Chromosome >>>> >> - Start Matching Segment >>>> >> - End Matching Segment >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> The question is whether to enter each matching segment once, or >>>> twice, >>>> >> reversing kit#s and names so that you can sort and select either way >>>> (Think >>>> >> GEDMatch's triangulation report which is basically what we are >>>> doing). >>>> >> >>>> >> My question to Greg: Are you going to build the spreadsheet >>>> yourself >>>> >> and publish it from time to time, keep a current version >>>> non-editable on >>>> >> Google Docs or some other place - or make it editable where we each >>>> add our >>>> >> own matches. >>>> >> >>>> >> Lenny >>>> >> >>>> >> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Paul David <dpaul3048@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> Lenny >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Would this help? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Paul >>>> >>> >>>> >>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Lenny Darnell via < >>>> >>> lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> >>>> Lisa, your grandmother and Bob Cates have a small connection. >>>> this >>>> >>>> may be >>>> >>>> noise or not, depending if we can find a third party who shares it: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Comparing Kit A898171 (Robert Lynn Cates) and F173637 (Pansy Louise >>>> >>>> Lancaster Johnston) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chr Start Location End Location Centimorgans (cM) SNPs >>>> >>>> 21 14,667,761 16,338,264 4.5 446 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Lisa Gorrell via < >>>> >>>> lovelace@rootsweb.com> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > My grandmother, Pansy Louise Johnston's DNA is uploaded to >>>> GedMatch >>>> >>>> from >>>> >>>> > FTDNA. Her kit is ID F173637. She descends from James Loveless & >>>> Linna >>>> >>>> > Hughes. >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > Lisa Gorrell >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Lenny Darnell via < >>>> >>>> lovelace@rootsweb.com> >>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > > Robert Cates is A898171 >>>> >>>> > > Tom Cates is M727087 >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > > The are first cousins once removed. We suspect that Tom's >>>> great >>>> >>>> > > grandfather/Bob's GGgrandfater to be a Lovel***. We also have >>>> >>>> evidence >>>> >>>> > > that they are descended from ancestors of Linna and Mary >>>> Hughes. >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Sherry Mack < >>>> >>>> sherrymack82@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> > > wrote: >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > > > Great idea Greg! >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > > My mom tested at ancestry under the username Mackwaco and her >>>> >>>> gedmatch >>>> >>>> > > is: >>>> >>>> > > > A343028. I tested my cousin as well, but I discovered that >>>> she >>>> >>>> has a >>>> >>>> > > > second Lovel*** line. So I'll leave her out. I'm off the >>>> Samuel >>>> >>>> > > Loveless >>>> >>>> > > > (Jackson and Benton, Arkansas) line. >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > > Hopefully this will entice more to upload their results to >>>> >>>> gedmatch. >>>> >>>> > > > Thanks, >>>> >>>> > > > Sherry >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Lenny Darnell via < >>>> >>>> > > lovelace@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> > > > > wrote: >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > >> Greg, a huge job indeed. Thank you. Would you like me to >>>> >>>> include >>>> >>>> > in >>>> >>>> > > my >>>> >>>> > > >> list people who may not be on this listserve, but have a >>>> >>>> Lovel*** line >>>> >>>> > > in >>>> >>>> > > >> their tree and have provided GEDMatch #s? Do you want to >>>> limit >>>> >>>> what >>>> >>>> > is >>>> >>>> > > >> reported to you to triangulated matches, or all 2-party >>>> matches >>>> >>>> which >>>> >>>> > > may >>>> >>>> > > >> or may not be Lovel***? One option is to collect 2-party >>>> >>>> matches for >>>> >>>> > > >> fourth cousin and better, but not for 5th cousin or worse. >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > >> Thanks so much! >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > >> Lenny >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > >> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Greg Lovelace via < >>>> >>>> > > lovelace@rootsweb.com >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> wrote: >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > >> > OK, folks. >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > The time has come for me to bite the bullet and start to >>>> put >>>> >>>> > together >>>> >>>> > > a >>>> >>>> > > >> > spreadsheet of autosomal DNA matches. Maybe I can try to >>>> use >>>> >>>> some >>>> >>>> > of >>>> >>>> > > >> the >>>> >>>> > > >> > stuff I learned last summer to actually take a good look >>>> at >>>> >>>> some of >>>> >>>> > > the >>>> >>>> > > >> > matches and try to propose some conclusions. >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > In order for me to do that, I need to know from you >>>> cuzzins if >>>> >>>> you >>>> >>>> > > have >>>> >>>> > > >> had >>>> >>>> > > >> > an autosomal DNA test. If you have, who did you test >>>> with? >>>> >>>> Have >>>> >>>> > you >>>> >>>> > > >> > uploaded your results to GedMatch? If so, what is your >>>> >>>> Gedmatch kit >>>> >>>> > > >> > number? >>>> >>>> > > >> > Have you uploaded a gedcom to Gedmatch? If so, what is >>>> your >>>> >>>> gedcom >>>> >>>> > id >>>> >>>> > > >> > number? >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > This is a substantial undertaking, and it will probably >>>> take a >>>> >>>> long >>>> >>>> > > >> time to >>>> >>>> > > >> > compile. So now I know that Melissa tested with FTDNA and >>>> >>>> uploaded >>>> >>>> > > her >>>> >>>> > > >> > results. I've entered our matches (see my last email) >>>> into >>>> >>>> the new >>>> >>>> > > >> > spreadsheet. I'm ready for yours now. Please respond, >>>> either >>>> >>>> here >>>> >>>> > on >>>> >>>> > > >> the >>>> >>>> > > >> > list so other interested cousins can see, or privately to >>>> me at >>>> >>>> > > >> > greg@part-of-the-tree.com. >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > Peace, >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > Part of the Tree, >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > Greg >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> > ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> > > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> >>>> > > >> > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> >>>> without >>>> >>>> > the >>>> >>>> > > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> > > >> > >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > >> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> >>>> > > >> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> >>>> without the >>>> >>>> > > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> > > >> >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > > ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> >>>> > > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without >>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>> > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> >>>> > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>> without the >>>> >>>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> >>>> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> >> >