William, In Talequah Oklahoma they have records of the applications for the Dawes Roll ( Cherokee only).  This will have a record of all the family that they are related to and which family member they claim to be indian. I hope this is helpful.  The Dawes also had other indian tribes but I am not sure where to find the other tribal records. ________________________________ From: william loveless <wsloveless@yahoo.com> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 1:19:25 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA I recently discovered Thomas Loveless on the Dawes rolls...Choctaw tribe case #60 ,but do not know how to gain access to further info.Can anyone help?He's probably my gg --- On Mon, 7/19/10, ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> wrote: From: ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 1:59 PM Nancy, Okay....then I  understand better now.  I don't have any living male relatives that could be tested then. Thank you again. Sincerely, GinnyO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Ross" <nlwross@hotmail.com> To: "lovelace" <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > Ginny- > If your mother was a Lovelace and her father was a Lovelace, you would > have to get a donor who is the son of your Grandfather Lovelace , or the > son of one of his brothers. In other words your male cousin or uncle whose > surname is Lovelace. > > Nancy > > > >> From: ginnyo@knology.net >> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:00:34 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA >> >> Nancy, >> >> Thank you so much for the explanation....as my Lovelace bloodline is >> through >> my Mother....and my maternal Grandfather....so, I would need to get one >> of >> my brothers to do a DNA test. >> >> Have a wonderful week everyone. >> >> Sincerely, >> GinnyO >>bject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My heart goes out to you. dakid, time and memories will help you through what is to come. It has been 26 months since I lost my husband of 50 years and there are still days that are hard to get through. May God be with you both. Norene ________________________________ From: "spice3@juno.com" <spice3@juno.com> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com; Overstreet@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, July 20, 2010 12:00:26 AM Subject: Re: [LL] Tues Jul 20, 2010 Dear beloved cuzzies, So many friends I have here! Today is a different note. Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ leukemia....both of his brothers died of it. It was not happy.....he had chemo which practically killed him....came close to dying twice. But, pulled himself together right after 10 days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to keep his chemo, and really had a nice quality of life for about 6 months. Got up every day, dressed, drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise cracked.....as usual. The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was going down hill again, and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this morning during a nap, as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home w/ no nurses or Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the night before for a visit. He would have been 83 in a couple of weeks. It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as in all marriages. We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an independent, do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired for starters. But, you who have been thru it know how that goes. Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a few days.....and then who knows.....I may not. ( : Susan aka Buckette to the Lovelesses Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both Overstreet and Lovelace> birthday. How 'bout that one! o : ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Greg"ette"--   This much I can tell you abt. haplogroup R1b1b2--   R1b (the ancestral group) was an offshoot in prehistoric times from R1, from which R1a also descends. Some researchers are now claiming that R1a represents the so-called "satem" split of the Indo-European language/culture groups, whereas R1b represents the so-called "centum" split from the Indo-European parent tree. Both groups ended up invading pre-historic Europe, but at widely divergent times--the centum group (R1b) much, much earlier (ca. 8000 B.C.E.), and the satem group around the time of Christ. (My dates could be off a little, but are close enough for purposes of this discussion.)   As we all know, R1b became the dominant haplogroup in Western Europe (the so-called "Atlantic Modal Haplogroup"), whereas R1a tends to predominate in Eastern Europe (but extends as far south as Iran, Afghanistan, and even into India). This (again) corresponds exactly to the known historical migration patterns of the two groups, "centum" and "satem".   But here's the really interesting part: Scandinavia, the ancient homeland of the Germanic peoples (whence we derive our language, English), was a mixture of R1a ("satem"), R1b ("centum"), and the "I1" group (my own group, also known as the autochthonous or aboriginal group).   This is confirmed by linguistic studies, which clearly show that the Germanic languages (including English) arose due to a mix of differing foreign language influxes into that area. The Germanic language group shares the majority of its lexicon (word stock) with the Balto-Slavic group ("satem" or R1a). An example is our word "swine," which in Russian is "svinia" [spelled with English letters]).   But the Germanic groups also show clear borrowings and influence from the Celto-Italic languages ("centum" or R1b). An example there (out of many possible ones) would be the word "rich" (or the German word "Reich") both of which stem from a Germanic original *rikja-, which was borrowed from a proto-Celtic form *rig-yo. The reference of course was to the "realm of the king". (The proto-Celtic word for "king" was "rix"--almost identical to the Latin "rex".)   Here is the Wikipedia page for the "centum/satem isogloss": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum-Satem_isogloss   Basically, this term comes from representative forms of the word for [one] "hundred" in each of those ancestral language families: "satem" from the ancient Avestan (related to modern Farsi, or Persian), and "centum," from Latin. The Indo-European dialects diverged many thousands of years ago, at first into two main groups--one group preserving the original hard /k/ sound of the initial consonant of that word (originally something like *kmtom), whereas the so-called "satem" group changed the hard initial /k/ into a soft /s/-like sound, rather like the way we pronounce it today in English (although we do so for different reasons).   I find it fascinating how genetics and linguistic studies are beginning to converge, and point to the same conclusion about our ancestry and language!   Hope this helps some.   Terry --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Jimmie Ryan <jimmie.ryan@verizon.net> wrote: From: Jimmie Ryan <jimmie.ryan@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 7:23 PM Per Ancestry: Haplogroup C (M130) (Oceania, North/Central/East Asia, North America and significant presence in India) Thanks cousin, still very confused... :) Cuz Jimmie -----Original Message----- From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Greg Lovelace Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:17 PM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA At 09:02 PM 7/18/2010, Jimmie wrote: >I guess my question was: > >Haplogroup Q3, Q or C3; as stated by Betsy, where would this be when >someone has a DNA test, would these value be listed with this "male to >male offspring" orientated test or would this Haplogroup be only in the >mtDNA testing procedure?  Haplogroup Q3,Q, or C3 would be present in >both forms of testing or not, this confusion comes from seeing the >result of the marker test and not seeing this "Q" value where does the Q3 et al value come from? Hey, Jimmie...   I'm sorry, cuz...  I guess I'm just as confused as you are.  The Haplogroup we belong to goes back much further than the tests we are looking at, or at least that is my understanding.  I just checked the FTDNA pages, and the haplogroup *is* listed in the results, just not with the marker matches.  Go to this page and read about haplogroups: http://www.familytreedna.com/snps-r-us.aspx The haplogroup is listed under the heading "Y-DNA results" on the test subjects FTDNA page, and can be found by clicking on the link that says "Haplotree".  Mine states that I belong to haplogroup R1b1b2.  What this actually means is mostly unclear to me, except that the group arose in Europe in prehistoric times. You were asking about DNA testing for native American tribes.  I  googled and found some interesting links.  Try some of these and see if they might answer some of your questions: http://www.manataka.org/page267.html http://www.comanchelodge.com/cherokee-blood.html http://www.healthanddna.com/ancestry-dna-testing/native-american-dna.html http://genealogical-research-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm/dna_testing_fo r_native_american_ancestry These should get you started.  Hope it helps. Peace, Part of the Tree, Greg ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Buckette, Old Cherokee traveling prayer, I will draw thorns from your feet. We will walk the White Path of Life together. Like a brother of my own blood, I will love you. I will wipe tears from your eyes. When you are sad, I will put your aching heart to rest. Thinking of you, Your Cuzzin Richard in Florida

Thinking of you and yours with lots of love, Suze... Please let us know if there's anything we can do. Hugs, Pat Loveless Brooks -----Original Message----- From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of spice3@juno.com Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 10:00 PM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com; Overstreet@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Tues Jul 20, 2010 Dear beloved cuzzies, So many friends I have here! Today is a different note. Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ leukemia....both of his brothers died of it. It was not happy.....he had chemo which practically killed him....came close to dying twice. But, pulled himself together right after 10 days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to keep his chemo, and really had a nice quality of life for about 6 months. Got up every day, dressed, drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise cracked.....as usual. The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was going down hill again, and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this morning during a nap, as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home w/ no nurses or Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the night before for a visit. He would have been 83 in a couple of weeks. It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as in all marriages. We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an independent, do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired for starters. But, you who have been thru it know how that goes. Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a few days.....and then who knows.....I may not. ( : Susan aka Buckette to the Lovelesses Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both Overstreet and Lovelace> birthday. How 'bout that one! o : ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Buckette, So sorry about Ole Buckley. I can't imagine what you're going through. You're in my prayers. Sue H. Dr. Donald M. Hassler Professor of English Kent State University www.kent.edu/english/people/tenured-tenure-track.../hassler.cfm ________________________________________ From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of spice3@juno.com [spice3@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:00 AM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com; Overstreet@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Tues Jul 20, 2010 Dear beloved cuzzies, So many friends I have here! Today is a different note. Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ leukemia....both of his brothers died of it. It was not happy.....he had chemo which practically killed him....came close to dying twice. But, pulled himself together right after 10 days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to keep his chemo, and really had a nice quality of life for about 6 months. Got up every day, dressed, drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise cracked.....as usual. The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was going down hill again, and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this morning during a nap, as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home w/ no nurses or Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the night before for a visit. He would have been 83 in a couple of weeks. It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as in all marriages. We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an independent, do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired for starters. But, you who have been thru it know how that goes. Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a few days.....and then who knows.....I may not. ( : Susan aka Buckette to the Lovelesses Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both Overstreet and Lovelace> birthday. How 'bout that one! o : ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

So sorry for your loss. --- On Tue, 7/20/10, spice3@juno.com <spice3@juno.com> wrote: > From: spice3@juno.com <spice3@juno.com> > Subject: Re: [LL] Tues Jul 20, 2010 > To: lovelace@rootsweb.com, Overstreet@rootsweb.com > Date: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 12:00 AM > Dear beloved cuzzies, > > So many friends I have here!   Today is a > different note. > > Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ > leukemia....both of his > brothers died of it.   It was not > happy.....he had chemo which practically killed > him....came close to dying twice.   But, > pulled himself together right after 10 > days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to > keep his chemo, and > really had a nice quality of life for about 6 > months.   Got up every day, dressed, > drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise > cracked.....as usual. > > The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was > going down hill again, > and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. > > But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this > morning during a nap, > as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home > w/ no nurses or > Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the > night before for > a visit.   He would have been 83 in a couple > of weeks. > > It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as > in all marriages. > We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an > independent, > do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! > > Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired > for starters.   But, you > who have been thru it know how that goes. > > Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a > few days.....and then > who knows.....I may not.   ( : > > Susan > > aka Buckette to the Lovelesses > > Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both > Overstreet and Lovelace> > birthday.    How 'bout that one!    o > : > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message >

Dear beloved cuzzies, So many friends I have here! Today is a different note. Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ leukemia....both of his brothers died of it. It was not happy.....he had chemo which practically killed him....came close to dying twice. But, pulled himself together right after 10 days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to keep his chemo, and really had a nice quality of life for about 6 months. Got up every day, dressed, drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise cracked.....as usual. The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was going down hill again, and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this morning during a nap, as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home w/ no nurses or Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the night before for a visit. He would have been 83 in a couple of weeks. It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as in all marriages. We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an independent, do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired for starters. But, you who have been thru it know how that goes. Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a few days.....and then who knows.....I may not. ( : Susan aka Buckette to the Lovelesses Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both Overstreet and Lovelace> birthday. How 'bout that one! o :

I know all about it. I lost a son on his 10th Birthday with leukemia.GOD BLESS YOU!!! Barbara Quoting "spice3@juno.com" <spice3@juno.com>: > Dear beloved cuzzies, > > So many friends I have here! Today is a different note. > > Thirteen months ago this silly Ole Buckley turned up w/ > leukemia....both of his > brothers died of it. It was not happy.....he had chemo which > practically killed > him....came close to dying twice. But, pulled himself together > right after 10 > days in the hospital during Christmas.....told to Doc to keep his chemo, and > really had a nice quality of life for about 6 months. Got up every > day, dressed, > drove, and cooked which he loved to do....and wise cracked.....as usual. > > The last three weeks have been a little tough as he was going down > hill again, > and he was facing more hospital time and some tough stuff. > > But, God bless him and God bless God.....he left this morning during a nap, > as quiet and peaceful as could be, in his own bed at home w/ no nurses or > Hospice hovering over him....and Da Kid had been over the night before for > a visit. He would have been 83 in a couple of weeks. > > It was a fun ride.....we both hated and loved each other as in all marriages. > We didn't marry until he was 46, and he always remained an independent, > do it himself bachelor type.....and he was funny! > > Da Kidand I are fine.....lots to do.....and I'm dead tired for > starters. But, you > who have been thru it know how that goes. > > Take great good care.....and I'll probably be gone for a few > days.....and then > who knows.....I may not. ( : > > Susan > > aka Buckette to the Lovelesses > > Oh, and one footnote....today is my Momma's <both Overstreet and Lovelace> > birthday. How 'bout that one! o : > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 7/17/10 11:19:51 PM, spice3@juno.com writes: > Hmmm.....and I go back to mine and Jeff's line from Jesse ca 1792 which > is > our brick wall.   We test into to the Maryland group.   If I'm not > mistaken, Jesse's > first dau. is named Lucinda.   Jesse's grand dau and my great gran is the > one > who said she was 100% Scot, and that she came from horse thieves <Barton?> > > I would need to go back into my data base to see what I used to figure this out, but I have always thought your Jesse came from James of Abbeville. Lou Ann

Heart is what I meant. Betsy

In a message dated 7/18/10 8:53:10 AM, mjarrell@suddenlink.net writes: > > The Cherokee have a legend to explain the blonde hair and blue eyes of > some > Cherokees.  It is their "Goldie Locks" story but in their version Goldie > Locks is captured by the Cherokees as a small child and when she becomes > an > young adult her white family finds her but she refuses to go back home > with > them and instead marries a young Cherokee man and their descendents > sometimes have blonde hair and/or blue eyes. > I like the story. > Thanks. I like it too. Lou Ann

Bucket My heat and prayers go out to you. Lost my father to same in 10th grade. Grandmom Loveless real close to but fortunatly before his passing. If you need help or anything let us know. I am only a little ways from you in Ft Wor Betsy

In a message dated 7/19/10 10:09:38 AM, revenant1963@yahoo.com writes: > Groups suggested as origin points for this influence include the ancient > Vikings, Libyans, Irish, etc. There is a variety of evidence arrayed to > support these claims, including alphabetical, linguistic, lexicographical, > archaeological, and semantic. > > This is interesting.  Many years ago in one of my "other lives" I ran a hotel in Texas owned by a family of 3 brothers from Libya.  They more or less adopted me, calling me "Little Sis" because of the Libyan/Native American theory.  I actually look more Indian (or did more so when I was younger and my hair was almost black, long and very Indian straight).  Anyway, they told me that Khadafi (sp?) was trying to "import" Native Americans to bring them back into the fold, so to speak.  I don't know where that theory came from and I don't know how much success he had convincing anyone to move there, but it was in fact a theory embraced by the Libyans at least for a time.  Interestingly I saw very little in the middle eastern appearance that resembled Native American other than coloring.  Their hair was curly for the most part, statures rather short and round.  And facial features more rounded. But, of course, there were many generations (centuries of them) between the time the natives were supposed to have left that area and found the Americas, which were not the Americas at the time...so, who knows. Lou Ann

Ginnyo Please remind us who your Thomas Loveless actually is? His wife, birth place and date? Thanks Margaret ----- Original Message ----- From: "ginnyo" <ginnyo@knology.net> To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > William Loveless sent the email regarding Thomas. See below: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "william loveless" <wsloveless@yahoo.com> > To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:19 PM > Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > > I recently discovered Thomas Loveless on the Dawes rolls...Choctaw tribe > case #60 ,but do not know how to gain access to further info.Can anyone > help?He's probably my gg > ------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ALTON LOVELESS" <alton.loveless@prodigy.net> > To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:14 PM > Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > > Ginny, where did your Thomas live? > > Dr. Alton Loveless > Alton and Delois Loveless > 527 Virginia Street > Ashville, Ohio 43103 > 573-330-7728 Cell > For "Monday Moments" blog go to: > altonloveless.blogspot.com > for additional stories. > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: william loveless <wsloveless@yahoo.com> > To: lovelace@rootsweb.com > Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 2:19:25 PM > Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > I recently discovered Thomas Loveless on the Dawes rolls...Choctaw tribe > case > #60 ,but do not know how to gain access to further info.Can anyone > help?He's > probably my gg > > --- On Mon, 7/19/10, ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> wrote: > > From: ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> > Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > To: lovelace@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 1:59 PM > > Nancy, > > Okay....then I understand better now. I don't have any living male > relatives that could be tested then. > > Thank you again. > > Sincerely, > GinnyO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy Ross" <nlwross@hotmail.com> > To: "lovelace" <lovelace@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > >> >> Ginny- >> If your mother was a Lovelace and her father was a Lovelace, you would >> have to get a donor who is the son of your Grandfather Lovelace , or the >> son of one of his brothers. In other words your male cousin or uncle >> whose >> surname is Lovelace. >> >> Nancy >> >> >> >>> From: ginnyo@knology.net >>> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:00:34 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA >>> >>> Nancy, >>> >>> Thank you so much for the explanation....as my Lovelace bloodline is >>> through >>> my Mother....and my maternal Grandfather....so, I would need to get one >>> of >>> my brothers to do a DNA test. >>> >>> Have a wonderful week everyone. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> GinnyO >>>bject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Arthur" <ctrpt2002@hotmail.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:21 PM To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood > This is all very interesting as has been mentioned. There is also the > theory or another line of thinking that the Native American (North and > South America) are descendants of Israel. It is said that at least 3 > different groups of Israelis' (Tribe of Joseph) came to the Americas > before the birth of Christ. One group came about the time of the confusion > of tongues at the Tower of Babel. The other two groups came around 600 BC. > Not to say that there were not others already here. Again it would be > difficult to prove any of this even with DNA testing as we have no idea > what Haplo-group Israelis' would be. Much less what they were some 2500 to > 4000 years ago. Just as it is difficult if not impossible now to tell > where the Native American originated. Although there are several theories > being put forward by this well informed group of cousins. But it is > interesting and just one more theory to add to this mix. > Mike Arthur > > > > > From: <Brondak@aol.com> > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 7:53 PM > To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [LL] Indian blood > >> >> In a message dated 7/19/10 10:09:38 AM, revenant1963@yahoo.com writes: >> >> >> >>> Groups suggested as origin points for this influence include the ancient >>> Vikings, Libyans, Irish, etc. There is a variety of evidence arrayed to >>> support these claims, including alphabetical, linguistic, >>> lexicographical, >>> archaeological, and semantic. >>> >>> >> >> This is interesting. Many years ago in one of my "other lives" I ran a >> hotel in Texas owned >> by a family of 3 brothers from Libya. They more or less adopted me, >> calling me "Little Sis" >> because of the Libyan/Native American theory. I actually look more >> Indian >> (or did more so >> when I was younger and my hair was almost black, long and very Indian >> straight). Anyway, >> they told me that Khadafi (sp?) was trying to "import" Native Americans >> to >> bring them >> back into the fold, so to speak. I don't know where that theory came >> from >> and I don't know >> how much success he had convincing anyone to move there, but it was in >> fact >> a theory >> embraced by the Libyans at least for a time. Interestingly I saw very >> little in the middle >> eastern appearance that resembled Native American other than coloring. >> Their hair was >> curly for the most part, statures rather short and round. And facial >> features more rounded. >> But, of course, there were many generations (centuries of them) between >> the >> time the >> natives were supposed to have left that area and found the Americas, >> which >> were not the >> Americas at the time...so, who knows. >> Lou Ann >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >

William Loveless sent the email regarding Thomas. See below: ----- Original Message ----- From: "william loveless" <wsloveless@yahoo.com> To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA I recently discovered Thomas Loveless on the Dawes rolls...Choctaw tribe case #60 ,but do not know how to gain access to further info.Can anyone help?He's probably my gg ------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "ALTON LOVELESS" <alton.loveless@prodigy.net> To: <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 3:14 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA Ginny, where did your Thomas live? Dr. Alton Loveless Alton and Delois Loveless 527 Virginia Street Ashville, Ohio 43103 573-330-7728 Cell For "Monday Moments" blog go to: altonloveless.blogspot.com for additional stories. ________________________________ From: william loveless <wsloveless@yahoo.com> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 2:19:25 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA I recently discovered Thomas Loveless on the Dawes rolls...Choctaw tribe case #60 ,but do not know how to gain access to further info.Can anyone help?He's probably my gg --- On Mon, 7/19/10, ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> wrote: From: ginnyo <ginnyo@knology.net> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 1:59 PM Nancy, Okay....then I understand better now. I don't have any living male relatives that could be tested then. Thank you again. Sincerely, GinnyO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Ross" <nlwross@hotmail.com> To: "lovelace" <lovelace@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA > > Ginny- > If your mother was a Lovelace and her father was a Lovelace, you would > have to get a donor who is the son of your Grandfather Lovelace , or the > son of one of his brothers. In other words your male cousin or uncle whose > surname is Lovelace. > > Nancy > > > >> From: ginnyo@knology.net >> To: lovelace@rootsweb.com >> Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:00:34 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA >> >> Nancy, >> >> Thank you so much for the explanation....as my Lovelace bloodline is >> through >> my Mother....and my maternal Grandfather....so, I would need to get one >> of >> my brothers to do a DNA test. >> >> Have a wonderful week everyone. >> >> Sincerely, >> GinnyO >>bject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks cuz Terry, you might also want to remember that the "Clovis" Indian culture/people came to our eastern shores between big ice ages; so the base for all of the eastern Indian Nations (eastern Canada to the Mississippian Indian of the south) would have come from this Clovis people who disappeared after the second ice age; which by the way there arrow heads are striking similar to European hunter gatherer societies and arrow head technology that was present prior to Ice Age Europe that we read about... so as shown in the recent documentaries they went along the ice sheet from western Europe to the North American Continent thousands of years before even the Vikings, Libyans, Irish... cultures were even in existence. Funny I did not receive your complete message cuz Terry, you are always very well informed. Jimmie -----Original Message----- From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bill McMahon Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 9:14 AM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA At 10:09 AM 7/19/2010, Terrence White wrote: --------------------------snip---------------------------- >Not only this, but there is indeed an element of current Archaeology >which does now suggest that it is possible that some of the eastern >Native groups may have had some level of influx from European yDNA (or >at least culture--a much more difficult thing to prove!) in >pre-historic times. Groups suggested as origin points for this >influence include the ancient Vikings, Libyans, Irish, etc. There is a >variety of evidence arrayed to support these claims, including >alphabetical, linguistic, lexicographical, archaeological, and >semantic. I must stress, however, that this is not yet a fully accepted >or mainstream view within the archaeological field (nor do I myself >necessarily agree with it). ------------------snip------------- -----------------------------------snip-------------------------- Terry, I agree with your assessment. After watching many of the Archaeological and History programs on the History, National Geographic, Science and Discovery channels I would not be surprised at any of these occurrences. In fact I saw a program last night about how Chinese ships visited the west coast of America several years before Columbus and we all know of the Archaeological evidence of the Vikings. Many of the Native Americans, ie Sitting Bull (of Custer's Last Stand) had blue eyes and dyed his hair black (this I learned from a very good friend, who's Mother was a member of the same family of Sitting Bull). This man also (who is at least 3/4, or more, Native American) has blue eyes. (Blue, is a recessive gene I believe.) Nothing would surprise me as future DNA research progresses. Bill McMahon ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Per Ancestry: Haplogroup C (M130) (Oceania, North/Central/East Asia, North America and significant presence in India) Thanks cousin, still very confused... :) Cuz Jimmie -----Original Message----- From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Greg Lovelace Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:17 PM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Indian blood and DNA At 09:02 PM 7/18/2010, Jimmie wrote: >I guess my question was: > >Haplogroup Q3, Q or C3; as stated by Betsy, where would this be when >someone has a DNA test, would these value be listed with this "male to >male offspring" orientated test or would this Haplogroup be only in the >mtDNA testing procedure? Haplogroup Q3,Q, or C3 would be present in >both forms of testing or not, this confusion comes from seeing the >result of the marker test and not seeing this "Q" value where does the Q3 et al value come from? Hey, Jimmie... I'm sorry, cuz... I guess I'm just as confused as you are. The Haplogroup we belong to goes back much further than the tests we are looking at, or at least that is my understanding. I just checked the FTDNA pages, and the haplogroup *is* listed in the results, just not with the marker matches. Go to this page and read about haplogroups: http://www.familytreedna.com/snps-r-us.aspx The haplogroup is listed under the heading "Y-DNA results" on the test subjects FTDNA page, and can be found by clicking on the link that says "Haplotree". Mine states that I belong to haplogroup R1b1b2. What this actually means is mostly unclear to me, except that the group arose in Europe in prehistoric times. You were asking about DNA testing for native American tribes. I googled and found some interesting links. Try some of these and see if they might answer some of your questions: http://www.manataka.org/page267.html http://www.comanchelodge.com/cherokee-blood.html http://www.healthanddna.com/ancestry-dna-testing/native-american-dna.html http://genealogical-research-methods.suite101.com/article.cfm/dna_testing_fo r_native_american_ancestry These should get you started. Hope it helps. Peace, Part of the Tree, Greg ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Mornin' Cuzzies, Houston is undergoing the tropical rain bit which is wonderful because it's keeping us relatively cool for July....and that means under 100 degrees. Big, ole thunderclouds form bringing lightning, thunder and rain all during the days......cats scatter everywhere when the deluge starts. o : Except for Mr. Kat who likes to get wet because he looooves his big towel dry when he comes in the house. The Houston Chroncle this morn has a big story abt. a multi- million dollar project to be built along the bayou which runs thru the city....bike paths, all kinds of fun thingees. Except.....where are we going to get the money? We've become so credit card brain washed that everyone, including cities, just keeps spending. Amazing! But, I guess as long as we print our own money, we can just keep going, huh.... Y'all have a good one! Stay cool..... ( : Buckette