In a message dated 6/27/16 10:55:57 AM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > I don’t think Nathan and Delma Lovelace are from the James (Loveless) of > Tishomingo (1796-1851) line. > > They're not. They're from Hazel of Newberry. Didn't my other message come through? The following is what I sent earlier: Greg, All of the info in your post fits exactly with what I have on the family and even added a date or place or too.  I didn't find them initially because I had them spelled Loveless in my files.  The surname changed spellings with a lot of the ones in the families, I have the father of Joseph as Francis b ca 1793 SC, Newberry Dist married to Elizabeth with the possible surname of HIPP. I have 11 children for them including Joseph. I have Francis as the son of Hazel of Newberry and his unknown wife,  I show that Francis moved first to Lauderdale Co AL and then to MS aft 1855 and then to TN where  he probably died, but I don't have a definite date or place.  I have a note that someone gave him a death date of 1846, but that's not right since he's on an 1850 census and beyond. Some of my info on them came from Melissa, some from census records, etc. Lou Ann

Also what are the birth years of John Baptists siblings Samuel, Luke and Phillip. It's amazing how confused the trees are out there. On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Lenny Darnell <lrdarnell@gmail.com> wrote: > I haven't seen mentioned in all of this a Francis Lovelace 1644 who is > listed as a father of John 1672 in at least one tree. Is this noise? > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Jack D. Lovelace via < > lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> Lou Ann, >> >> If you will notice, the dates have a small 'c' in front of them. This >> is the abbreviation for circa. >> >> Back when I first started doing genealogy, and did not known better, I >> failed to record my sources. I think the Talbot Co. came from the >> probate papers for William, that can not now be found. >> >> John, the father of JBL, was born say 1690 and died 1766-1780. This is >> the John who was married to an Anne. >> >> John, the son of Thomas and Eleanor, was born ca 1710 and died 1775. >> This is the john who was married to Jane. John's estate was probated by >> Samuel Hanson, his largest creditor. >> >> On 6/27/2016 11:49 AM, Brondak via wrote: >> > jack, where do you get the dates on Thomas below.? >> > Birthdate looks like guesswork maybe? >> > I agree that this Thomas is probably the son of John who would be the >> son >> > of the immigrant, probably William, but why Talbot Co MD. I haven't >> seen >> > docs to support that. And the John who died ca 1775 had a wife Anne >> > accoeding to estate docs, not Jane. >> > >> > According to land sale records, John the son of Thomas and Eleanor is >> the >> > one >> > who had the wife Jane. >> > Lou Ann >> > >> > In a message dated 6/26/16 5:51:35 PM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: >> > >> > >> >> Thomas was born about 1685 in Maryland. The county is not known. >> >> Thomas is probably the son of John b: c1664 in Talbot County, MD. John >> >> is the son of one of the original transportees, either William or >> Thomas >> >> (I think William). >> >> >> >> Thomas married Eleanor (b: c1684, d: 1765) about 1709 in Maryland (the >> >> county is not known). They are the parents of 1) John b: c1710. d: >> >> May-Jun 1775, who m: Jane; and 2) Thomas b: c1714, d: b1794. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> -- >> >> Jack D. Lovelace >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

jack, where do you get the dates on Thomas below.? Birthdate looks like guesswork maybe? I agree that this Thomas is probably the son of John who would be the son of the immigrant, probably William, but why Talbot Co MD. I haven't seen docs to support that. And the John who died ca 1775 had a wife Anne accoeding to estate docs, not Jane. According to land sale records, John the son of Thomas and Eleanor is the one who had the wife Jane. Lou Ann In a message dated 6/26/16 5:51:35 PM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > Thomas was born about 1685 in Maryland.  The county is not known. > Thomas is probably the son of John b: c1664 in Talbot County, MD.  John > is the son of one of the original transportees, either William or Thomas > (I think William). > > Thomas married Eleanor (b: c1684, d: 1765) about 1709 in Maryland (the > county is not known).  They are the parents of 1) John b: c1710. d: > May-Jun 1775, who m: Jane; and 2) Thomas b: c1714, d: b1794. > >

I haven't seen mentioned in all of this a Francis Lovelace 1644 who is listed as a father of John 1672 in at least one tree. Is this noise? On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Jack D. Lovelace via <lovelace@rootsweb.com > wrote: > Lou Ann, > > If you will notice, the dates have a small 'c' in front of them. This > is the abbreviation for circa. > > Back when I first started doing genealogy, and did not known better, I > failed to record my sources. I think the Talbot Co. came from the > probate papers for William, that can not now be found. > > John, the father of JBL, was born say 1690 and died 1766-1780. This is > the John who was married to an Anne. > > John, the son of Thomas and Eleanor, was born ca 1710 and died 1775. > This is the john who was married to Jane. John's estate was probated by > Samuel Hanson, his largest creditor. > > On 6/27/2016 11:49 AM, Brondak via wrote: > > jack, where do you get the dates on Thomas below.? > > Birthdate looks like guesswork maybe? > > I agree that this Thomas is probably the son of John who would be the son > > of the immigrant, probably William, but why Talbot Co MD. I haven't > seen > > docs to support that. And the John who died ca 1775 had a wife Anne > > accoeding to estate docs, not Jane. > > > > According to land sale records, John the son of Thomas and Eleanor is the > > one > > who had the wife Jane. > > Lou Ann > > > > In a message dated 6/26/16 5:51:35 PM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > > > > > >> Thomas was born about 1685 in Maryland. The county is not known. > >> Thomas is probably the son of John b: c1664 in Talbot County, MD. John > >> is the son of one of the original transportees, either William or Thomas > >> (I think William). > >> > >> Thomas married Eleanor (b: c1684, d: 1765) about 1709 in Maryland (the > >> county is not known). They are the parents of 1) John b: c1710. d: > >> May-Jun 1775, who m: Jane; and 2) Thomas b: c1714, d: b1794. > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > > Jack D. Lovelace > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Lou Ann, If you will notice, the dates have a small 'c' in front of them. This is the abbreviation for circa. Back when I first started doing genealogy, and did not known better, I failed to record my sources. I think the Talbot Co. came from the probate papers for William, that can not now be found. John, the father of JBL, was born say 1690 and died 1766-1780. This is the John who was married to an Anne. John, the son of Thomas and Eleanor, was born ca 1710 and died 1775. This is the john who was married to Jane. John's estate was probated by Samuel Hanson, his largest creditor. On 6/27/2016 11:49 AM, Brondak via wrote: > jack, where do you get the dates on Thomas below.? > Birthdate looks like guesswork maybe? > I agree that this Thomas is probably the son of John who would be the son > of the immigrant, probably William, but why Talbot Co MD. I haven't seen > docs to support that. And the John who died ca 1775 had a wife Anne > accoeding to estate docs, not Jane. > > According to land sale records, John the son of Thomas and Eleanor is the > one > who had the wife Jane. > Lou Ann > > In a message dated 6/26/16 5:51:35 PM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > > >> Thomas was born about 1685 in Maryland. The county is not known. >> Thomas is probably the son of John b: c1664 in Talbot County, MD. John >> is the son of one of the original transportees, either William or Thomas >> (I think William). >> >> Thomas married Eleanor (b: c1684, d: 1765) about 1709 in Maryland (the >> county is not known). They are the parents of 1) John b: c1710. d: >> May-Jun 1775, who m: Jane; and 2) Thomas b: c1714, d: b1794. >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Jack D. Lovelace

i have had zero success with the autosomal test - it proved people i already knew - but in all other cases - it shows relationships many generations closer than they actually could possibly be... perhaps i am unique - in multiple branches of my family there are multiple cross connections creating double and triple and quadruple duplicate relationships for a given pair of individuals - i believe this is causing the dna to "be confused". so i'm sure i'm related to these people, but the knkowledge that they exist at this point is not getting either of us past our brick walls to get to each other ... perhaps someday it may help. On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Andrew Lovelace via <lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: > General question to the group... what is your thoughts about having the > autosomal test. It appears to help with only the immediate unknown family > members and maybe the first 5, or so, generations, right? My current > test > is Y-DNA67 Thomas Lovelace, Kit 7553. > > Just looking for some overall opinions... > > Thanks, > > Andy > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 10:58 PM, <Brondak@aol.com> wrote: > Then we have five more Lovelace men of the next generation. These are > John, Samuel, > Benjamin, Abraham, and Thomas. ​Lou Ann, I am working through all this information and looking to find online profiles for them that I can slim down and align with the data you provided. Can you give me estimated birth years for John, Samuel, Benjamin, Abraham. You had previously mentioned Thomas was 1709. I have found a profile for an Abraham ​that suggests 1710. I had thought that John would be John 1689 that is all over the place, but I see that Jack says that John never existed. But no profiles for Samuel or Benjamin that would be born soon enough to father Joseph 1722 or Benjamin 1727, Can you provide me wife names where known for these five if known. I should be able to nail them down with that. Are Bartholomew 1757 and Barton who you mention the same? I get some DNA hits on him. Thanks Lenny

Lou Ann, The records that I have found for this family start with the 1783 Tax Roll for Culpeper County, VA. What information I have sources for before that date came from Vicki Kanaar, and as we know, her source was not reliable. Having said that, I have not been able to locate any record in Maryland, before the 1790 census, for any member of this family. The lady that Vicki was getting her information from (I forget her name) was primarily doing research on the Rosson family. She only referred to Nancy Bohanan as Nancy. On 6/27/2016 1:03 PM, Brondak@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/27/16 2:36:10 PM, lovelacejackd@verizon.net writes: > > >> Lou Ann, >> >> How do we known this? >> >> Nancy Bohanan is not a Jane. > > > Ok Jack, you've got me. I'm not sure why but I have her as > Jane/Nancy/Nancy Jane. Do you have > a marriage record of some kind for them. I show all their kids were > born in MD and that they were > in Culpeper after 1763. Do you have evidence to the contrary? > Thanks > Lou Ann -- Jack D. Lovelace

Jack (Wyatt), I just went over the line you propose for the Thomas Lovelace with the wife Eleanor Evans. Number one, based on dates (you give Thomas a bd of 1650) you have to be referring to the immigrant Thomas and we have no proof at all that he remained in MD or married anyone or had kids. The Thomas with the wife Eleanor who we do know existed was born much later than that and we have no proof of her surname. The John you give as JBL's father with a birthdate of 1689 probably didn't exist, There is a John probably born much earlier who is probably the father of John with the wife Anne who is JBL's father as proven by documents. That John died in 1765 and was probably born later than 1689. So, that all being said I'm not following where you come up with a Thomas Lovelace and an Eleanor Evans. Lou Ann

I have used autosomal tests to break through the backside of may brick walls. But if you take the test at AncestryDNA and do nothing else with it, you won't get much value. for it to be valuable you have to do chromosome mapping and identify specific segments you match others on, and triangulate - same segment from three not to closely related cousins goes to a common ancestor. What I now recommend is to test at AncestryDNA and then port the data for free to GedMatch.com. For a bonus, spend another $40 and port the data to ftDNA where you can do chromosome mapping/matching against their database. MyHeritage has a new offering to import DNA data which I haven't explored yet. I am hoping they they will also offer chromosome mapping and tree matching (best of all worlds). If you do AncestryDNA and nothing else you will get confirmation of your tree, and where you don't find matches especially in the 4th-6th cousin areas, it may mean your tree is wrong for various reasons. They do provide a list of people you may be related to that are not in your tree. I have found they are mostly cousins, uncles and aunts and their spouses. However, one of those hints helped lead me to the right branch of Lovel***s to research for my father-in-law Tom Cates. Here is a set of blog posts with good info about using GEDMatch: http://blog.kittycooper.com/tag/gedmatch/ On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Bruce Reeves via <lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: > i have had zero success with the autosomal test - it proved people i > already knew - but in all other cases - it shows relationships many > generations closer than they actually could possibly be... perhaps i am > unique - in multiple branches of my family there are multiple cross > connections creating double and triple and quadruple duplicate > relationships for a given pair of individuals - i believe this is causing > the dna to "be confused". so i'm sure i'm related to these people, but the > knkowledge that they exist at this point is not getting either of us past > our brick walls to get to each other ... perhaps someday it may help. > > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Andrew Lovelace via < > lovelace@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > General question to the group... what is your thoughts about having the > > autosomal test. It appears to help with only the immediate unknown > family > > members and maybe the first 5, or so, generations, right? My current > > test > > is Y-DNA67 Thomas Lovelace, Kit 7553. > > > > Just looking for some overall opinions... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Andy > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Jack, I've been trying to think through this DNA thing and Thomas and can't come up with anything that proves anything. We do know that JBL'a father was John with a wife Anne. Documents prove it. We do know that Thomas and Eleanor had a son John with a wife Jane, Docs prove it. We do know that a John with a wife Jane went to Culpeper VA and that John with the wife Anne died in MD. But as for the fathers of John with either of those wives we have no way DNA wise to prove their parentage since there are no other children known that we can compare them to. There simply is no way with DNA to prove parentage, only close kinships, ie that they belong to the MD group. Now, is what I've said correct or am I missing something. Lou Ann

Yes, your message came through at 9:29. I sent mine earlier, at 8:55, so they must have crossed in the ether! Greg had commented that Nathan Lovelace came from the James Loveless of Tishomingo line. Now we see that Nathan came from Hazel>Francis>Joseph. Do I have that correct? > > Martha > There stands the castle > by yon tuft of trees William Shakespeare Sent from my iPad > On Jun 27, 2016, at 11:59 AM, Brondak via <lovelace@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > In a message dated 6/27/16 10:55:57 AM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > > >> I don’t think Nathan and Delma Lovelace are from the James (Loveless) of >> Tishomingo (1796-1851) line. > They're not. They're from Hazel of Newberry. Didn't my other message > come through? > > The following is what I sent earlier: > Greg, > All of the info in your post fits exactly with what I have on the family > and even added a date or place or too. I didn't find them initially because I > had them spelled Loveless in my files. The surname > changed spellings with a lot of the ones in the families, > > I have the father of Joseph as > Francis b ca 1793 SC, Newberry Dist married to Elizabeth with the possible > surname of HIPP. > I have 11 children for them including Joseph. > > I have Francis as the son of Hazel of Newberry and his unknown wife, I > show that Francis moved > first to Lauderdale Co AL and then to MS aft 1855 and then to TN where he > probably died, but I don't have a definite date or place. I have a note > that someone gave him a death date of 1846, but that's not right since he's on > an 1850 census and beyond. > > Some of my info on them came from Melissa, some from census records, etc. > Lou Ann > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 6/27/16 11:20:28 AM, cjwyatt@bellsouth.net writes: > anything further back with autosomal DNA is difficult, I get consistent > results with a Thomas being John Baptist's grandfather. > Will someone help me out here, what Thomas could possibly give the above "consistent results". To my knowledge we don't have a line with a Thomas of that generation being part of the DNA tests. Help. Have I missed something. Lou Ann

Lou Ann, How do we known this? Nancy Bohanan is not a Jane. On 6/27/2016 10:09 AM, Brondak via wrote: > We do know that a John with a wife Jane went to Culpeper VA -- Jack D. Lovelace

In a message dated 6/27/16 11:20:28 AM, cjwyatt@bellsouth.net writes: > Regarding the below quesrion, I've always thought they probably were the > same person. It wasn't unusual to find more than one person claiming > headrights on a person. In this case, one when he > first landed in MD and then when he moved over into VA. I don't know what happened to him, but he may have stayed in VA and if that's the case, the immigrant William is probably our ancestor. Lou Ann > > > > Could the two Thomas's collecting the headrights in VA and MD be the same > person.? > >

Greg, All of the info in your post fits exactly with what I have on the family and even added a date or place or too. I didn't find them initially because I had them spelled Loveless in my files. The surname changed spellings with a lot of the ones in the families, I have the father of Joseph as Francis b ca 1793 SC, Newberry Dist married to Elizabeth with the possible surname of HIPP. I have 11 children for them including Joseph. I have Francis as the son of Hazel of Newberry and his unknown wife, I show that Francis moved first to Lauderdale Co AL and then to MS aft 1855 and then to TN where he probably died, but I don't have a definite date or place. I have a note that someone gave him a death date of 1846, but that's not right since he's on an 1850 census and beyond. Some of my info on them came from Melissa, some from census records, etc. Lou Ann

This is great Greg. I'll get back with you as soon as I see how this links up in my data base. Many thanks Lou Ann

Well, this got away from me somehow before I finished. I was referring to a thread that Melissa started back in 1998 which y'all can read beginning here: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/lovelace/1998-01/0885353026 I don't know how far this line has progressed back. Buckette (Susan Spice Buckley) also answered this post back in 1998 with this post: http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/lovelace/1998-01/0885402395 She mentions a link back to South Carolina. Can anybody help with this line further back? Peace, Part of the Tree, Greg

All, I've found the identity of Delma's husband Nathan. The funeral home mentioned in Delma's obituary also handled her husband's funeral. He was James Nathan Lovelace of Iuka, born 14 December 1926, died 13 March 2011. His obit is here: http://www.cutshallfuneralhome.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=1104173&f h_id=12936 Family trees on Ancestry have him as the son of Benjamin Franklin Lovelace and Ollie Othea Bray. The 1940 census shows him in Tishomingo Co., MS, age 13, in the home of Franklin and Ollie, with younger brothers Carvis, Joseph Avon, Donal Udell, and an infant. Franklin is 44, b. ca 1896 in Mississippi. Living next to him is George Lovelace, age 41 (b. ca 1899 in MS) and wife Meliva, with dau. Joy Bell and son Lee Roy. FindAGrave memorial #63614930 is for Benjamin Franklin Lovelace, b. 10 Apr 1894, d. 4 Feb 1942. He is buried in Harmony Methodist Church Cemetery in Iuka. The memorial says he is the son of James W. Lovelace (1860-1918) and Frances Ann Brown (1857-1944). James also has a memorial on FindAGrave, #63615029. His grave marker in Harmony Cemetery lists all his children on the back side, including Franklin and George. It shows his dates as 11 Feb 1860 to 27 Oct 1918. The 1910 census of Burnsville, Tishomingo Co., MS show James W. and Francis A. Lovelace, age 50 and 53, respectively, with a house full of children including all the children listed on his grave marker (Franklin is listed in the census as Benjamin F.) except for John and Joseph. There is a Joseph D. listed next door with a wife of 2 years and a small child. The census shows that James was born in TN. The 1860 census of Lauderdale Co., TN (Ripley PO, 2 Civil District) shows a Joseph and Nancy Lovelace with a son James, 5 months old. This fits with James of Tishomingo above. Joseph is a wheelwright, age 29, b. SC (ca 1831). Nancy was b. TN. Ancestry has a marriage license recorded on 26 May 1857 in Lauderdale Co., TN for Joseph Lovelace to Nancy H. Temple. P18 d127 f127 Melissa Jones Belur started a thread on this family back in Peace, Greg Lovelace  Part of the Tree Research Services 683 Edmonds Drive Charleston, SC 29412 greg@part-of-the-tree.com www.part-of-the-tree.com -----Original Message----- From: lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lovelace-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Brondak via Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 7:46 PM To: lovelace@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [LL] Obituary of Delma Lovelace - MS This is interesting. I don't know who her husband Nathan is, but speaking of the Newberry Five, several of Hazel's descendents are buried in this same cemetery, as well as one of his son's in-laws. Lou Ann In a message dated 6/23/16 4:39:09 PM, lovelace@rootsweb.com writes: > Delma Lovelace(1933 - 2016) > IUKA -- Delma Lovelace, 82, passed away Sunday, June 20, 2016, at > North Mississippi Medical Center in Iuka. Services will be on > Thursday, June 23, > 2016 at 1:00 pm at Cutshall Funeral Home Chapel in Iuka. Visitation > will be on 4 pm until 8 pm at Cutshall Funeral Home in Iuka. Burial > will follow at Harmony Cemetery. > > Funeral Home > Cutshall Funeral Home - Iuka > 302 North Pearl Street Iuka, MS 38852 > (662) 423-5222 > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LOVELACE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

General question to the group... what is your thoughts about having the autosomal test. It appears to help with only the immediate unknown family members and maybe the first 5, or so, generations, right? My current test is Y-DNA67 Thomas Lovelace, Kit 7553. Just looking for some overall opinions... Thanks, Andy