Hi, Beverly, Larry, and the List: I do not know Larry Johnson except for reading his input to the Looney Mailing list over the years and his website. I did not get out of Larry's post that he was "offended by an Indian in their closet." The List archives has considerable information about these Indian Looneys;it has been discussed repeatedly over the years. Larry is a dedicated researcher and has spent quite a bit of effort in the research on his own lines and the Indian Looney lines and has yet to find a connection to Robert Looney. There may be a connection, but there is no PROOF yet. The Indian Looneys are very much a part of the Looney List. The List is dominated by Robert Looney's descendants since they are the most numerous, but other lines are welcome as well. Please re-read Larry's post below. He is not putting down Indians. He is putting down shoddy research and people jumping to conclusions without the facts to back them up. I am not related to these lines, so I have no ax to grind in this discussion. What I, personally, found offensive was Beverly's desire to find offense where none was indicated, jumping to conclusions based on an unsubstantiated article, and then sending her message out to all of us on this list. Genealogy is about FACTS, not fantasy. Genealogy lists are for sharing and exchanging, not people to flame those who present facts that they don't like. The Looney list is a very civil and helpful list, unlike many I have been on over the years. Teresa, who is proud to have Indian ancestors and has spent 25 years doing research to prove it ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: From: "Beverly Birdwell" <beverlybirdwell@netxn.com> Date: Wed, January 28, 2004 12:10 pm To: LOONEY-L@rootsweb.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I sent this message to the list, I was under the impression that it was for sharing and exchanging all the info available. It didn't occur to me that there were searchers out there that were offended by an Indian in there family closet. I don't care if my ancesters were green, I just want to know. Whether they went ahead, and became Old Settlers, as my ancesters did, or they were marched, they were still REMOVED and just a note to add, in the 1835 census of Cherokees east of the Mississippi, there were 3 men named Black Fox--so stupid of me to think one of them might be my John Looney, private, not captain. My personal opinion is that bigotry has no place in genealogy, but what do I know, because I am not considered related to THE Robert Looney. Those Looneys were above procreating with Indians. Please remove my name from this list--I don't want to offend anyone else and I apologize to everyone except the writer of that message. I didn't mean to offend by suggesting that one of my Cherokee ancesters had children by his noble ancestor beverlybirdwell@netxn.com Larry Johnson's Post: This information is a figment of someone's imagination and totally incorrect. What someone has done is to take different facts about Cherokee and white Looney family members and blend them together in an apparent attempt to add native American or white Looney roots to their family. Yes there was a Cherokee by the name of Chief John Looney, but NO there is absolutely nothing to indicate he is a descendant of the Robert Looney family. This Chief John Looney is said to have been the nephew of Enoli (also known as Black Fox). I have a record where Chief John Looney filed a land claim (reservation) in Alabama and he identified the place as the land where Black Fox used to live and is now buried. Chief John Looney was not "removed" from this reservation in northern Alabama, he left on his own to go live in Arkansas and he left it in the possession of his two sisters. This reservation was taken from him (and his sisters) when it was determined that he had already left it to move to Arkansas. Chief John Looney did move on into Oklahoma where he was soon joined by all the other Cherokee who moved there during the "Trail of Tears". He was never removed from any part of Oklahoma. He did go to Washington, DC as a delegate of the Cherokee and he died there while on this mission. This Chief John Looney fought and was wounded during the Creek Wars (associated with the War of 1812). I also have a copy of his application for a pension claim due to this war service and his injury. This Chief John Looney is buried in Washington, D.C. and his tombstone identifies him as Capt. John Looney, a Cherokee. I'm not sure why his tombstone says Capt. because he was only a private when he served in the Creek War. There is quite a bit of documented information on this John Looney, but there is absolutely nothing to indicate a family relationship with the Robert Looney family from the Isle of Mann. There was a William (Bill) Bauch Looney who was the son of Moses and Mary (Guest) Looney. This Bill Looney was from northern Alabama and he aided the North during the Civil War. He helped individuals who did not support the CSA cause. He helped them escape involuntary service with the CSA by taking them through the woods and hollows, avoiding the CSA troops/recruiters while going north. He was captured by the CSA on more than one occasion and escaped each time. The CSA who was trying to stop his activities gave him the nick name of "Black Fox". Bill Looney actually received a pension for this "war service" even though he never served a day on active duty with the north. This nickname had absolutely nothing to do with any known or even supposed family relationships with any native Americans. Bill Looney was a brother to my GGG-Grandfather, Moses Looney Jr. Something that I found out that came as a complete surprise is the fact that there was an "USA" unit from Alabama, I believe it was designated as the 1st Alabama Regiment. There was another brother of Bill and Moses Looney (A.M. Looney) that served in this unit during the Civil War. Larry W. Johnson Descendant of Moses and Mary (Guest) Looney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverly Birdwell" <beverlybirdwell@netxn.com> To: <LOONEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: [LOONEY-L] > Hi, > Here is an paragraph from an article I ran across---maybe I am the last to > see this, but just in case---- > (Bill Looney) He became known a "The Black Fox". This name was probably > given him because of an asscoiation with a Cherokee chief from the > Guntersville area called Black Fox in the early 1800's, who also had the > English name of John Looney and the Cherokee name of Enoli. Bill Looney > would have been about six years old at the time of the Cherokee Removal > from north Alabama when Chief John Looney, aka Enoli & Black Fox was > removed into western Arkansas and eastern Oklahoma. One of Bill's great > uncles was Captain John Looney ( Revolutionary War soldier) who was > captured by the Cherokees in March 1782 on the southern branches of the > Tennessee River, and may have left some progeny behind when he was set > free after a few weeks of captivity. > > I am descended from this Chief John Looney, but had never heard that the > other names were his also. The only info I had was that either John or > his father (also John) was named Ugidlati--this is the phonetic > sounding--I don't have the sylabary letters on my computer. Does anyone > else have any info on this? > > beverlybirdwell@netxn.com >