I wonder if someone with more luck(?) than I've had in the last 5 years or so, can locate the 1861 census entry for an elusive Great-great Aunt of mine. I know where she was born, and where she died and just about everything else about her other than where she was in 1861! Let's start with some basics. Her name was Jemima Nancy SCHWARTZ, and she was born on 20th June 1844 in Whitechapel. This date, albeit that it comes from an IGI Patron submission, fits very well with the FreeBMD registration from Jul-Aug-Sep 1844, Whitechapel vol 2 page 517. I've not found a record of her Baptism, but as there are hints of non-conformity in the family, I am not totally surprised. Her parents were John Frederick SCHWARTZ and Hannah Elizabeth SMITH. He was a Gunsmith in Whitechapel. They had 6 other children that I know of. Elizabeth Mary, John William, Charles Frederick, Hannah Lydia, Lydia Ruth and Eliza Emily. All are fairly well documented. So far as I know, and her death registration seems to confirm the fact, Jemima never married and had no children. Her death registration is another puzzle that I have yet to grapple with. She died in Apr-May-Jun 1931 (good age that!) in Worcester vol 6c page 130 at an age of 86. Again, good correlation with the dob! I have no idea why she was in Worcester in 1931. It's not an area that the family seems to have any association with. They're Londoners and, latterly, people from Essex or the South-East. Anyway, to the known facts. In 1851, she's in Marylebone, with an Uncle & Aunt and a Grandmother. HO107 Piece:1495 Folio:412 pages 1 and 2. Good English names these! Gottlieb Sebastian & Ann SCHWARTZ, a cab proprietor just off of Grays Inn Rd. The Grandmother, Elizabeth is with her second husband, Charles IRONHART from Prussia (13 May 1822, St Dunstan, Stepney) She was formerly a SCHWARTZ, but what her maiden name was, I have no idea. Her occupation of Governess seems to me to be significant. Training? Because the next record I have for Jemima is the 1871 census in which she is recorded as being a Children's Nurse with the very prominent, Victorian family of Edward Hugesson Knatchbull-Hugesson in Upper Grosvenor St, Belgravia. He was an MP for Faversham in Kent and eventually became the 1st Baron Brabourne. At one time, he was an Under-secretary for the Colonies in the Russell(?) government. See RG10 Piece:99 Folio:12 page 16 and Folio 13 page 17. In 1881, and through to 1901, Jemima is to be found living with her widowed sister Lydia (now WEST) in Harwich, Essex. The references are. RG11 Piece 1782 Folio 15 Page 23 RG12 Piece 1402 Folio 115 Page 3 RG13 Piece 1699 Folio 69 Page 20 In the later images, they are listed as Confectioners, which gives me the warm, fuzzy idea, that they were two old ladies running a sweet-shop :-) In 1911, she's staying with another sister, Hannah Lydia (now BALDOCK) in Southborough, Kent. After that, I have nothing until her death in 1931. So! Where was she in 1861? -- Regards & thanks for listening, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Mike As mentioned a few weeks ago, there are parts of the 1861 census that were destroyed. A small part is missing - schedules 369 to 441 which it seems would include 165 Drury Lane. There is damage to the pages before and after the missing part. My grandfather was on Drury Lane/ Tough! David On 9 May 2011 14:41, Mike Fry <fredbonzo@iafrica.com> wrote: > I wonder if someone with more luck(?) than I've had in the last 5 years or > so, > can locate the 1861 census entry for an elusive Great-great Aunt of mine. I > know > where she was born, and where she died and just about everything else about > her > other than where she was in 1861! > > Let's start with some basics. Her name was Jemima Nancy SCHWARTZ, and she > was > born on 20th June 1844 in Whitechapel. This date, albeit that it comes from > an > IGI Patron submission, fits very well with the FreeBMD registration from > Jul-Aug-Sep 1844, Whitechapel vol 2 page 517. I've not found a record of > her > Baptism, but as there are hints of non-conformity in the family, I am not > totally surprised. > > Her parents were John Frederick SCHWARTZ and Hannah Elizabeth SMITH. He was > a > Gunsmith in Whitechapel. They had 6 other children that I know of. > Elizabeth > Mary, John William, Charles Frederick, Hannah Lydia, Lydia Ruth and Eliza > Emily. > All are fairly well documented. > > So far as I know, and her death registration seems to confirm the fact, > Jemima > never married and had no children. Her death registration is another puzzle > that > I have yet to grapple with. She died in Apr-May-Jun 1931 (good age that!) > in > Worcester vol 6c page 130 at an age of 86. Again, good correlation with the > dob! > I have no idea why she was in Worcester in 1931. It's not an area that the > family seems to have any association with. They're Londoners and, latterly, > people from Essex or the South-East. > > Anyway, to the known facts. > > In 1851, she's in Marylebone, with an Uncle & Aunt and a Grandmother. HO107 > Piece:1495 Folio:412 pages 1 and 2. Good English names these! Gottlieb > Sebastian > & Ann SCHWARTZ, a cab proprietor just off of Grays Inn Rd. The Grandmother, > Elizabeth is with her second husband, Charles IRONHART from Prussia (13 May > 1822, St Dunstan, Stepney) She was formerly a SCHWARTZ, but what her maiden > name > was, I have no idea. Her occupation of Governess seems to me to be > significant. > Training? > > Because the next record I have for Jemima is the 1871 census in which she > is > recorded as being a Children's Nurse with the very prominent, Victorian > family > of Edward Hugesson Knatchbull-Hugesson in Upper Grosvenor St, Belgravia. He > was > an MP for Faversham in Kent and eventually became the 1st Baron Brabourne. > At > one time, he was an Under-secretary for the Colonies in the Russell(?) > government. See RG10 Piece:99 Folio:12 page 16 and Folio 13 page 17. > > In 1881, and through to 1901, Jemima is to be found living with her widowed > sister Lydia (now WEST) in Harwich, Essex. The references are. > > RG11 Piece 1782 Folio 15 Page 23 > RG12 Piece 1402 Folio 115 Page 3 > RG13 Piece 1699 Folio 69 Page 20 > > In the later images, they are listed as Confectioners, which gives me the > warm, > fuzzy idea, that they were two old ladies running a sweet-shop :-) > > In 1911, she's staying with another sister, Hannah Lydia (now BALDOCK) in > Southborough, Kent. After that, I have nothing until her death in 1931. > > So! Where was she in 1861? > > -- > Regards & thanks for listening, > Mike Fry > Johannesburg > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > This mailing list works in parallel with the London surname interest list > on the web at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hughw/london.html . Check for > matching interests and add your own ! > > Any problems, please contact the List Admin: LONDON-admin@rootsweb.com > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LONDON-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

On 2011/05/09 15:41, Mike Fry wrote: > I wonder if someone with more luck(?) than I've had in the last 5 years or so, > can locate the 1861 census entry for an elusive Great-great Aunt of mine. Ooops! She was a Great-great-great-aunt of mine! -- Regards, Mike Fry Johannesburg

Hi Mike, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fry" <fredbonzo@iafrica.com> > On 2011/05/09 15:41, Mike Fry wrote: >> I wonder if someone with more luck(?) than I've had in the last 5 years or so, >> can locate the 1861 census entry for an elusive Great-great Aunt of mine. > > Ooops! She was a Great-great-great-aunt of mine! > > -- > Regards,> Mike Fry> Johannesburg Not to worry:-) I'm pretty certain parts of Belgravia are missing for 1861. Have you tracked down the KNATCHBULL-HUGGESONs in 1861 to see if she is already with them? Its a fair bet that KNATCHBULL-HUGGESON family papers have survived, either deposited somewhere [try A2A] or still with the family. Google may also help. If she was Nanny foe any length of time she may also feature in any published memoirs/biography, but possibly under a pet-name. Kind regards, John Henley